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-   -   Seymour Center Stage XD OR Seymour Screen Excellence 4k (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/1502088-seymour-center-stage-xd-seymour-screen-excellence-4k.html)

Lewis. S 11-27-2013 06:23 AM

I am looking for a AT screen for my theater room

I have purchased all of the components other than the screen, the specs are as follows:

Room Size: No window room measuring 12.5 x 18.9 (16 feet back row viewing, 11 feet front row viewing)
Screen Size: 120 wide (137' diagonal - 16:9)
Projector: JVC DLA-X95RKT
Speakers: Definitive Technology RLS II (front L x R X C) - behind screen
Sub: Definitive Technology IW Sub Reference
Surrounds: Definitive Technology UIW RSS II (4 speakers)
Source: Oppo-95, Dune Smart, Direct TV

I am trying to decide between the Center Stage or the 4k - At my viewing distances (depending on what thread in AVS forum you read) I am at the cusp of appreciating the 4k fine weave, however other posts note that the Center Stage "pops" relative to the 4K (i.e. produces a slightly more enjoyable picture)

Any input is much appreciated

Best

Lewis

rolette 11-27-2013 07:29 AM

I can't help with the 4K vs Center Stage material question, but my room is about the same size and I've got the 120" Center Stage XD (2.35:1) screen and I love it.

Couple of photos here along with some comments regarding viewing distances and weave visibility farther down in the thread.

Jay

priyen13 12-17-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis. S View Post

I am looking for a AT screen for my theater room

I have purchased all of the components other than the screen, the specs are as follows:

Room Size: No window room measuring 12.5 x 18.9 (16 feet back row viewing, 11 feet front row viewing)
Screen Size: 120 wide (137' diagonal - 16:9)
Projector: JVC DLA-X95RKT
Speakers: Definitive Technology RLS II (front L x R X C) - behind screen
Sub: Definitive Technology IW Sub Reference
Surrounds: Definitive Technology UIW RSS II (4 speakers)
Source: Oppo-95, Dune Smart, Direct TV

I am trying to decide between the Center Stage or the 4k - At my viewing distances (depending on what thread in AVS forum you read) I am at the cusp of appreciating the 4k fine weave, however other posts note that the Center Stage "pops" relative to the 4K (i.e. produces a slightly more enjoyable picture)

Any input is much appreciated

Best

Lewis

Hi Lewis,

I'm actually in a similar boat, my room is a little smaller (back row - 15, front - 10ish). Did you ever end up picking between the two? I have samples of both and the XD definitely pops but the 4k has a really fine weave. I'm stuck :\

Lewis. S 12-20-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by priyen13 View Post

Hi Lewis,

I'm actually in a similar boat, my room is a little smaller (back row - 15, front - 10ish). Did you ever end up picking between the two? I have samples of both and the XD definitely pops but the 4k has a really fine weave. I'm stuck :\



priyen13,

I have not - I am trying to find a place where I can see both and as of today I have not found anywhere

I have to make the call in about 30 days so I will let you know where things shake out

Best,
Lewis

priyen13 12-20-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis. S View Post

priyen13,

I have not - I am trying to find a place where I can see both and as of today I have not found anywhere

I have to make the call in about 30 days so I will let you know where things shake out

Best,
Lewis

That's unfortunate (for me) haha. I have to make the call in less than 2 weeks. I think, weave aside, the price of the screenexcellence is hard to justify over the XD...

7channelfreak 12-21-2013 11:11 AM

I've seen the XD sitting at around 8 to 9 feet. It looks really good. For me, I could not see the weave with the movie on and no lights. I could see a weave with lights on only. This was Spacemans. I ordered the EN 4K cause I'm going to be a little closer and I'm going with a 4K projector in my new room. It has less gain but is much tighter. I'm about two or three weeks from having mine up. I'll be able to give you a better opinion on the 4K at that time.

If you're just looking at the XD, you might want to check out the Falcon screen as well. It seems there are people that like it and it's around the same price. AVS sells them as well if you want to check with Craig or Mike.

doublewing11 01-02-2014 05:53 PM

Just call Chris at Seymour and ask for samples of both................

You'll have to pay for shipping and for 4k samples. I tested out all materials before I purchased...........the designer of my room spec-ed Stewart 130 MP, but I could see perfs at 12ft.

With the XD material, I could see weave at 12ft.........since my first row seating is at 12.5 ft, I went with 4k material. Your projector choice will help dictate XD or 4k..................XD is noticeably brighter than 4k. My projector is bright enough that the lower gain on the 4k screen is not problematic.

Here's the screen:




Glenn Baumann 01-02-2014 06:00 PM

doublewing11,

What size is your screen and what type of projector are you using? confused.gif

Thanks!


...Glenn smile.gif

doublewing11 01-02-2014 06:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

doublewing11,

What size is your screen and what type of projector are you using? confused.gif

Thanks!


...Glenn smile.gif

12 ft 2.37 Seymour-SE 4k.......................I'm using a Sony 1000ES and both throw an exceptional picture! wink.gif

nathan_h 02-04-2014 08:47 PM

When you guys talk about the gain difference, is this the spec difference or measured difference?

nathan_h 02-10-2014 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

12 ft 2.37 Seymour-SE 4k.......................I'm using a Sony 1000ES and both throw an exceptional picture! wink.gif

That projector has slightly more than twice the light output than my projector. Maybe yours is dialed down and mine is on high lamp mode, but I suspect the gap is significant smile.gif

In any event, I'm starting a line up of the AT materials currently available. Screen Innovations shipped today, Seymour is [not sure of status yet], and Falcon arrived today. It will be very interesting to measure each and judge which are acceptable -- balancing visibility of the weave with gain properties.

ADDUpstate 02-12-2014 06:20 PM

In my opinion, if you can afford the EN4k, get it. It's worth it. It's the best of the best. Screens don't get upgraded very often... You will likely never need to upgrade the screen, unless you want to go bigger. wink.gif Everything else in the chain of electronics will be upgraded much sooner. Buy once and be done with it.

nathan_h 02-13-2014 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDUpstate View Post

In my opinion, if you can afford the EN4k, get it. It's worth it. It's the best of the best. Screens don't get upgraded very often... You will likely never need to upgrade the screen, unless you want to go bigger. wink.gif Everything else in the chain of electronics will be upgraded much sooner. Buy once and be done with it.

I agree that one should get the best screen one can, which is why my last couple of screens were from Stewart.

First, a Firehawk about a decade ago, since I was in a multi-use room and while I could turn off all the lights, I could not paint the walls dark.

Then an Ultramatte screen since I was going BIG in a dedicated bat cave, and at that time getting some extra gain was necessary for the better projectors at large sizes.

I don't know that the EN4k is the best for my application -- from a gain perspective. I requested a sample and will see. So far, the Falcon has hit the sweet spot in terms of gain and lack of visibility of the weave. But as I say, I have not received the Seymour EN4k yet.

Glenn Baumann 02-13-2014 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I agree that one should get the best screen one can, which is why my last couple of screens were from Stewart.

First, a Firehawk about a decade ago, since I was in a multi-use room and while I could turn off all the lights, I could not paint the walls dark.

Then an Ultramatte screen since I was going BIG in a dedicated bat cave, and at that time getting some extra gain was necessary for the better projectors at large sizes.

I don't know that the EN4k is the best for my application -- from a gain perspective. I requested a sample and will see. So far, the Falcon has hit the sweet spot in terms of gain and lack of visibility of the weave. But as I say, I have not received the Seymour EN4k yet.


^^^

Nathan,

I look forward to your observations between the Falcon and the EN4K! biggrin.gif


...Glenn smile.gif

nathan_h 02-13-2014 04:31 PM

I'll be happy to share, but keep in mind, each situation is different (different room, different eyes, different projector, different size, distance, etc) wink.gif

jbrown15 02-14-2014 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDUpstate View Post

In my opinion, if you can afford the EN4k, get it. It's worth it. It's the best of the best. Screens don't get upgraded very often... You will likely never need to upgrade the screen, unless you want to go bigger. wink.gif Everything else in the chain of electronics will be upgraded much sooner. Buy once and be done with it.

Why do you consider it the best of the best with such a dim picture? There's no way I could live such a dim picture. I've found with AT screens there's always going to be some time of trade off.

jbrown15 02-14-2014 09:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I agree that one should get the best screen one can, which is why my last couple of screens were from Stewart.

First, a Firehawk about a decade ago, since I was in a multi-use room and while I could turn off all the lights, I could not paint the walls dark.

Then an Ultramatte screen since I was going BIG in a dedicated bat cave, and at that time getting some extra gain was necessary for the better projectors at large sizes.

I don't know that the EN4k is the best for my application -- from a gain perspective. I requested a sample and will see. So far, the Falcon has hit the sweet spot in terms of gain and lack of visibility of the weave. But as I say, I have not received the Seymour EN4k yet.

If you want pm me your address and I'll mail you the 2'x2' sample that I have. All you have to do is pick up the tab to get it shipped. Might be a couple bucks, I could find out early next week if you're interested.

jbrown15 02-14-2014 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

^^^

Nathan,

I look forward to your observations between the Falcon and the EN4K! biggrin.gif


...Glenn smile.gif

I now have a Falcon screen and have a large 2'x2' piece of the EN4K screen material. While yes you can't see any weave because there isn't one, there is just no way I would even consider spending that much money on such a dim lack luster picture. IMHO the only advantage of the EN4K material is no visible pattern in the screen.

nathan_h 02-14-2014 09:24 PM

While the EN4K is low gain, it's really all about the whole equation: Got a light cannon, no problem. Got a relatively dim RS20, like me, and one has to go small in order to get reference brightness off the screen (I suspect, I haven't measured yet).

I have a sample en route to me, so I will see for myself.

jbrown15, thanks for the offer. If I like the small sample Seymour has sent, I'll hit you up for the larger sample, as well, and be happy to pay shipping.

jbrown15 02-14-2014 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

While the EN4K is low gain, it's really all about the whole equation: Got a light cannon, no problem. Got a relatively dim RS20, like me, and one has to go small in order to get reference brightness off the screen (I suspect, I haven't measured yet).

I have a sample en route to me, so I will see for myself.

jbrown15, thanks for the offer. If I like the small sample Seymour has sent, I'll hit you up for the larger sample, as well, and be happy to pay shipping.

It would fit into a small padded envelope so I'm sure it would only be a couple bucks. If it's less the $5 I'll send it to you for free.

nathan_h 02-15-2014 07:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

It would fit into a small padded envelope so I'm sure it would only be a couple bucks. If it's less the $5 I'll send it to you for free.

You got mail.

Also, did you end up going with the 4k material? Your project is at least a third brighter than mine, so if you are using the 4k material I'd be curious at what size, and what the measured brightness off the screen is.

archiguy 02-15-2014 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

While the EN4K is low gain, it's really all about the whole equation: Got a light cannon, no problem. Got a relatively dim RS20, like me, and one has to go small in order to get reference brightness off the screen (I suspect, I haven't measured yet).

The other factor, of course, is throw distance. Lumens decrease on a logarithmic scale, if I'm not mistaken. (Been awhile since high school physics.) Twice the distance = 4 times the light dropoff. My throw is 17.5' (with a JVC 4810) so the EN4K is just not going to be enough gain. Now, I could always operate the projector on high output but the tradeoffs there are reduced lamp life and more noise from the fan running at a higher speed.

It's always a matter of tradeoffs. I've decided to go with the Falcon screen because of the higher gain. Not as smooth, but I don't think that will end up being a factor as my seating distance is 9.5' for the first row, 15.5' for the second.

jbrown15 02-15-2014 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

You got mail.

Also, did you end up going with the 4k material? Your project is at least a third brighter than mine, so if you are using the 4k material I'd be curious at what size, and what the measured brightness off the screen is.

No I ended up going with a Falcon screen, I just couldn't live with that dim of a picture. IMO the Falcon screen is a great compromise, way brighter then the EN4K material and less noticeable then the XD material. I could see the XD material from about 9-10ft away, I have to be within 5-6ft to see the Falcon screen material. It may only be about 3ft but that's a big difference to me.

chriscmore 02-15-2014 08:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Why do you consider it the best of the best with such a dim picture? There's no way I could live such a dim picture. I've found with AT screens there's always going to be some time of trade off.

Gain is in itself not necessarily an advantage or disadvantage, as there is a proper application of every screen gain. While a higher gain will have brighter whites, a lower gain will have deeper blacks, better shadow detail and rejection of ambient light/reflections. If you have enough lumen output, you can compensate for lower gain, but since your projector can't suck light, it can't compensate for too high a gain.

AT screens need not have any tradeoff at all. It's what the films are mastered with and reference quality is achievable.

Cheers,
Chris

ADDUpstate 02-16-2014 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Gain is in itself not necessarily an advantage or disadvantage, as there is a proper application of every screen gain. While a higher gain will have brighter whites, a lower gain will have deeper blacks, better shadow detail and rejection of ambient light/reflections. If you have enough lumen output, you can compensate for lower gain, but since your projector can't suck light, it can't compensate for too high a gain.

AT screens need not have any tradeoff at all. It's what the films are mastered with and reference quality is achievable.

Cheers,
Chris

+1

jbrown15 02-16-2014 09:49 AM

Very true, and I agree with you Chris. And I don't feel that I'm giving up blacks or shadow detail with the Falcon screen. If I had 10k burning a hole in my pocket to buy a light cannon projector that would still give me the deep blacks of my JVC RS and another $3000+ for one of your EN4K screen that I would have gone that direct. But that's simply not the case, so I went with the next best thing IMHO.

I really did like dealing with you but I just wasn't crazy about being able to see the weave in the XD material so I had to go in a different direction.


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