Center Stage XD vs Center Stage UF - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-10-2014, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, first time poster. I've spent all day researching screens and it has been a little overwhelming. I just purchased a Epson 2030 and I'm just doing a little home theatre on a budget for the living room. I'm not looking to spend 500$ for a screen if I don't have too and I'm looking as just buying the fabric from Seymour and just making a screen myself with some black felt tape for borders. My question is, from sitting about 13ft away, will I really notice a difference between the Center Stage XD and the Center Stage UF? I ask because the XD is about double what the UF is and I don't mind buying the XD if a bunch of you guys agree there is a difference. The screen size is going to be about 135-136". Any additional tips or help is welcomed. Thanks again.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I'm unsure exactly the size to order from seymour. The Epson calculator tells me my measurements of the screen, based on the distance, will be 67" vertical and 119" horizontal with a 137" diagonal image size.  

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post #2 of 26 Old 03-10-2014, 04:30 PM
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Why don't you just buy the Jamestown screen with XD material? It's around the budget you're looking to spend and already done except to put it together.

Edit: sorry I misread your post. I thought you said your budget was $500, not that you don't want to spend $500.

Maybe others can chime in here to help.
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-11-2014, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I've already built the frame, I just need some material...

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post #4 of 26 Old 03-19-2014, 08:22 AM
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Bump because I'm curious of the same.

They said they would send fabric samples, so I might go that route - if no input can be found.

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post #5 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 06:31 AM
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I have the XD sample, and if you're sitting 12 feet away, you can't see the weave. It's also the brightest AT screen that I know of. Compared to the Falcon screen, the XD is quite a bit brighter.. i'll say at least 10-15% brighter.

At 10 feet, you might imagine seeing the weave, but at 12 it'll be baby smooth.

I am going to order the UF material to compare soon.
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post #6 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I have the XD sample, and if you're sitting 12 feet away, you can't see the weave. It's also the brightest AT screen that I know of. Compared to the Falcon screen, the XD is quite a bit brighter.. i'll say at least 10-15% brighter.

At 10 feet, you might imagine seeing the weave, but at 12 it'll be baby smooth.

I am going to order the UF material to compare soon.

Coolgeek, I don't know where you're getting you're percentages from but sorry I have to call you out on this one. There's no way the XD material is 10-15% brighter then the Falcon screen material. And IMO the visibilities in the screen weaves when comparing the two is very noticeable. I've had four different forum members over to see my screen and they all thought the two materials had the same brightness and the falcon screen having a much less noticeable weave.
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post #7 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Coolgeek, I don't know where you're getting you're percentages from but sorry I have to call you out on this one. There's no way the XD material is 10-15% brighter then the Falcon screen material. And IMO the visibilities in the screen weaves when comparing the two is very noticeable. I've had four different forum members over to see my screen and they all thought the two materials had the same brightness and the falcon screen having a much less noticeable weave.

I am not disputing the weave. You're absolutely right on that one. I have both screen materials side by side in my friend's Hi-Fi store. It's pretty unanimous that the XD is quite a bit brighter than the Falcon.

However, as for the weave, I stop seeing the weave on the Falcon at 8 feet and the XD at 10, but could somehow still 'feel' them. At 10 feet for the falcon, it's baby smooth, and the XD at 12 feet for that.

Here's my take on contrast,... for still images, the falcon screen have deeper colors and seems like the better choice. However, when I am viewing movies (on bluray), the XD seems to win out in terms of 'pop' and the brightness really shows and at that point the falcon seems a bit dull in contrast.
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post #8 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 10:01 AM
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So you have a XD screen and a large Falcon screen sample, and say the XD is quite a bit brighter. You are comparing a what 2x2 sample?

I have a Falcon screen and a large XD sample and there is no noticeable difference in brightness. I say this based on the fact that you can place that sample anywhere against my screen and then go sit down and it blends in perfectly with the rest of the screen. If the XD material was quite a bit brighter like you're saying it would stand out immediately and that simply isn't the case.

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post #9 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 10:10 AM
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Yup. 2x2 sample. I guess at this point it's your objective opinion vs mine. I view both samples side by side with a dozen guys and the xd is definitely brighter. We compared them extensively for an hour with both still images and moving images.

I also prefera the skin tones on the xd
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post #10 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 11:09 AM
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I think at this point we'll just agree to disagree, I feel that the XD isn't really any brighter then the Falcon screen material. Although both screen materials are quite a bit brighter then the Seymour EN4K material, and further more the screen weave of the XD is harder to live with. Sure it's okay if you're 12' away but I would say there's a large number of people that sit closer then 12ft away or are right on that threshold of that seating distance.

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post #11 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 11:50 AM
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One other question for you coolgeek, I'm curious as to how you put a percentage number the your perceived difference between the two?

Was it just a random percentage that you came up with? For example if I had a dim-able light and turned it down from fully bright do you think you could accurately tell me how much I've dimmed the light by?

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post #12 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 12:53 PM
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JBBrown15,

I am not sure why you keep harping back to the weave.. that's not in dispute here and i have make it very clear that the Falcon is superior in that department... If someone wants a smaller screen or to sit closer than 10 feet, then by all means, the Falcon is the way to go..

I was merely giving my opinion (which is clear as light to me), that the XD is quite a bit brighter than the Falcon... and if someone were to site 11-12 feet away with a far larger screen, then that might not be a bad choice..

Again, if you don't see a difference, then you don't see a difference... me and my friends all see them clearly... and I suggest anyone else to do their own comparisons.. it's not hard to get samples of both materials.

BTW: I also have the EN4K up against the both of them.. and it seems the Falcon lies between the EN4K and the XD in terms of brightness and if the published results of 20% dimmer for the EN4K vs XD, then logically, at least in my perception, the Falcon would be about 10% dimmer since it's about in the middle of the two..
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post #13 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

JBBrown15,

I am not sure why you keep harping back to the weave.. that's not in dispute here and i have make it very clear that the Falcon is superior in that department... If someone wants a smaller screen or to sit closer than 10 feet, then by all means, the Falcon is the way to go..

I was merely giving my opinion (which is clear as light to me), that the XD is quite a bit brighter than the Falcon... and if someone were to site 11-12 feet away with a far larger screen, then that might not be a bad choice..

Again, if you don't see a difference, then you don't see a difference... me and my friends all see them clearly... and I suggest anyone else to do their own comparisons.. it's not hard to get samples of both materials.

BTW: I also have the EN4K up against the both of them.. and it seems the Falcon lies between the EN4K and the XD in terms of brightness and if the published results of 20% dimmer for the EN4K vs XD, then logically, at least in my perception, the Falcon would be about 10% dimmer since it's about in the middle of the two..

I'm not "harping" on the weave, I was just saying that it's much easier to live with over the XD weave.

I just feel you a saying things that aren't completely true and in the end could effect someone decision to buy a Falcon screen, which are excellent screens. We can agree on one thing though, any potential buyers should order sample of both materials and decide for themselves and not take that word of other people. I will say that maybe because I have a much larger screen material of the Falcon then what you do that maybe that's also why I feel there isn't as much of a difference in the brightness as you do.

Anyways have a good day smile.gif

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post #14 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I'm not "harping" on the weave, I was just saying that it's much easier to live with over the XD weave.

I just feel you a saying things that aren't completely true and in the end could effect someone decision to buy a Falcon screen, which are excellent screens. We can agree on one thing though, any potential buyers should order sample of both materials and decide for themselves and not take that word of other people. I will say that maybe because I have a much larger screen material of the Falcon then what you do that maybe that's also why I feel there isn't as much of a difference in the brightness as you do.

Anyways have a good day smile.gif

I get the feeling that you're saying that only your opinion is the truth and mine are just pure lies... which it is not. That's why I ask people to get both samples to see for themselves.

Unless there's a real 'metric' out there about the brightness on both screen materials, I am sticking to my opinion that the falcon is noticeably dimmer than the XD... I can't deny what my eyes can see. And this also from about a dozen people at the store that have seen both screens.

Trying to squash someone else's opinion when they have direct experience with the same materials that you have without any actual 'proof' is more detrimental to anyone trying to make a buying decision...

For instance, if people only hear that 'the falcon is just as bright but have finer weave, then they might not need to do their own research and just buy that screen. But when they hear that someone else have a different opinion on that subject matter, they might then want to check it out themselves and who knows, maybe they agree with you, and maybe they agree with me..

I do not sell XD screens and have no reasons to 'lie' or be deliberately untruthful as you claim. I think my opinion is just as valid as yours in this case.

BTW: logically speaking, a finer weave with less exposure to the 'special coating that reflects light' would mean 'dimmer'. That's why the EN4K is so much dimmer than the XD screen and also why the new UF screen is also so much dimmer. And this is just a logical conclusion, not real test. Just throwing that out there as well.
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post #15 of 26 Old 04-10-2014, 09:07 PM
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I never once said the Falcon screen has a "finer" weave, I actually think the weave in the XD material is finer which actually causes it to display a little bit of a weave pattern and that pattern that you can see is what causes you to have to sit farther away from the screen. I also never tried to say you were lying, you're entitled to your opinion and I have mine. I simply said that I have a MUCH larger piece of the Falcon screen material then you do for you to look at and when viewing on a large scale there is no perceived difference in brightness between the two.

And once again, I'm agreeing with what you've said; anyone considering buying either of these two screens needs to order samples for themselves and compare them directly.
And of course the $300 + that I saved going with the Falcon screen has a nice added bonus smile.gif

Would you say that I was telling lies if I told you that from my seating position of 11.5ft that in white scenes I could still see the screen weave in the XD material? Because I can.

Anyways I'm not going to post anymore about this seeing that this is a XD and UF thread and not a Falcon screen thread. I just wanted to voice a second opinion as being a Falcon screen owner, as I'm sure not everyone shares the same opinion as you do. Also for the record there is now more then a few guys in these forums that own Falcon screens now and at one point or another have compared the XD material with Falcon's. I would urge anyone considering these screens to maybe shoot them a pm and get some feed back from them too.

Anyways, I say "good day to you" smile.gif

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post #16 of 26 Old 04-11-2014, 10:30 AM
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Wow this thread went way off topic.... Lets get back to the original question. Has anyone actually compared both the XD and UF material? I'm thinking of giving the UF a try instead of the XD material because I have a small room and will be sitting about 12-13ft away from the screen. Seymour states that the UF has finer weaves and will not be visible.
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post #17 of 26 Old 04-11-2014, 11:18 AM
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Wow this thread went way off topic.... Lets get back to the original question. Has anyone actually compared both the XD and UF material? I'm thinking of giving the UF a try instead of the XD material because I have a small room and will be sitting about 12-13ft away from the screen. Seymour states that the UF has finer weaves and will not be visible.

I was going to order a sample of the UF to compare against my XD and EN4K, but I got this message from Jon of Seymour...

"Yes the UF screen material is pretty much the SeymourAV version of the 4K. It is not the same material but the gain/brightness is the same. The XD will give you the brightest image out of the three. If you are at an 11 foot seating distance I don't think you will have much of an issue with the weave texture of the XD. The XD is quite alot brighter than the 4K or UF screen materials. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will be happy to help."

So, basically the UF would be about 20% darker than the XD and at your seating distance of 12-13 feet, i am sure you won't see any weave of the XD. I couldn't at 10 feet, my friend could still almost make it out at 11 feet, but even for him, it totally disappears at 12... and I have yet to hear anyone say they can see anything at 12 feet.

You should get both samples and compare for yourself.
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post #18 of 26 Old 04-12-2014, 07:54 AM
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Well, since I have always tried to be as honest as possible, being called a liar just didn't stand right with me, so I went back to my friend's place and put up all 3 screen materials side by side and took some photos. I guess a picture do tell a thousand words.

In the photos, I have placed the materials as such:

Left: Falcon
Middle : Centerstage XD
Right: EN4K

Note: Seymour have published that the EN4K material is 20% dimmer than the XD, and as you can see the Left looks almost exactly in the middle in terms of brightness between the XD and the EN4K, so my initial statement that the Falcon is about 10% dimmer is just about right. Without a proper measurement, I'll say it'll be around that ball-park, give or take a few percentage.

See for yourself:





In these last two scenes, the differences not as much but still visible there. When watching a full movie, the XD will have more pop overall and colors are more vibrant.


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post #19 of 26 Old 04-12-2014, 08:44 PM
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Well okay, so I figure I would post a few pictures of the screen material shots that I've taken so people can understand where some of my comments have come from and don't think I'm just going off about XD vs Falcon screen material. So starting from the left side I have the following AT screen materials. All of the pictures have been taken from 11.5ft away from the screen, which is the distance of my first row of seats.

-EluneVision Reference Studio AudioWeave
- SeymourAV Enlightor 4K
- Falcon Screens
- SeymourAV XD

I personally feel that the only time you can really see a difference in the extra gain of the XD material over the Falcon screen is in these first two pictures with a white test pattern and then the picture with white back ground and black text.




This was just a simple picture that I took of a basic blue screen shot.



And now I'll post a bunch of pictures that give a pretty good idea how all four samples look with varies images from the Disney WOW disc plus a few from the Avengers and then a moon shot from Avatar.






Now the Avengers





Avatar



I know that coolgeek said that with his samples he felt the Falcon screen was 10-15% dimmer then the XD material. For me personal I agree that the XD material is the brightest and the EN4K material looks the dimmest by the 20%, where the two of disagree is on the Falcon material. I personally would say that the EluneVision material would be 10-15% dimmer then the XD material but from the samples of the materials that I have the Falcon material looks to be around 5% dimmer. Which is also why I felt there wasn't really much difference between the XD and Falcon materials.

Either way I just thought it would be good to post some pictures as to where I was coming from, because like coolgeek I have no scratch in the game with regards to any of these companies and I try to be as honest as possible with all of my posts too.

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post #20 of 26 Old 04-12-2014, 08:57 PM
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^ awesome...

So, we are in disagreement on how 'much dimmer'.. i can live with that... smile.gif

For me, it's an easy 'relative' test. The Falcon seems to lie in between the EN4K and the Falcon in terms of brightness and that gives me the number 10% difference.

As for 'dimmer pictures', you're right, the difference is less visible. But that's not how I look at it. The pop factor has a lot to do with the dynamic range and how 'bright', bright can be. So, for instance, if you have a predominantly dark scene, with a bright object, then the bright object will appear 'brighter' in the XD material, and gives an overall 'better pop' to the picture. That's why i actually prefer the XD in terms of skin tones as well. The 'light' skin tones especially shines in this case...
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^ awesome...

So, we are in disagreement on how 'much dimmer'.. i can live with that... smile.gif

For me, it's an easy 'relative' test. The Falcon seems to lie in between the EN4K and the Falcon in terms of brightness and that gives me the number 10% difference.

As for 'dimmer pictures', you're right, the difference is less visible. But that's not how I look at it. The pop factor has a lot to do with the dynamic range and how 'bright', bright can be. So, for instance, if you have a predominantly dark scene, with a bright object, then the bright object will appear 'brighter' in the XD material, and gives an overall 'better pop' to the picture. That's why i actually prefer the XD in terms of skin tones as well. The 'light' skin tones especially shines in this case...

I was never trying to call you out or say that you are lying, just simply looking at it from a different position. I maintain that for watching movies for me, there isn't a very noticeable difference in brightness and pop. The brightness only really shows itself on the whitest or whites and even then its really only on a white image.

I think a lot of times things just come off wrong because we're reading text with no emotion. If we were talking face to face I would say the same things I was before but you'd be able to tell that I wasn't trying to call you out or say that you were lying. smile.gif

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post #22 of 26 Old 04-13-2014, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I was never trying to call you out or say that you are lying, just simply looking at it from a different position. I maintain that for watching movies for me, there isn't a very noticeable difference in brightness and pop. The brightness only really shows itself on the whitest or whites and even then its really only on a white image.

I think a lot of times things just come off wrong because we're reading text with no emotion. If we were talking face to face I would say the same things I was before but you'd be able to tell that I wasn't trying to call you out or say that you were lying. smile.gif

Okay.. cool.. hard to read the 'intention' of someone posting online.. smile.gif

On another note:

I noticed you didn't use a black backing for the samples. This would introduce light bouncing off of your Falcon back to the user from the 'holes' in the other materials. This could explain why you thought they were only 5% different instead of the 10% that I think is closer to the difference.

In fact, even the EN4K looks very similar in the examples when the EN4K is really 20% darker than the XD.
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post #23 of 26 Old 04-13-2014, 12:27 AM
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Okay.. cool.. hard to read the 'intention' of someone posting online.. smile.gif

On another note:

I noticed you didn't use a black backing for the samples. This would introduce light bouncing off of your Falcon back to the user from the 'holes' in the other materials. This could explain why you thought they were only 5% different instead of the 10% that I think is closer to the difference.

In fact, even the EN4K looks very similar in the examples when the EN4K is really 20% darker than the XD.

We're playing post tag...lol

I just addressed this in the JTR, I do have black backing and honestly I'd didn't make a difference like you are suggesting, if anything it made the XD look slightly dimmer.

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post #24 of 26 Old 04-13-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Well okay, so I figure I would post a few pictures of the screen material shots that I've taken so people can understand where some of my comments have come from and don't think I'm just going off about XD vs Falcon screen material. So starting from the left side I have the following AT screen materials. All of the pictures have been taken from 11.5ft away from the screen, which is the distance of my first row of seats.

-EluneVision Reference Studio AudioWeave
- SeymourAV Enlightor 4K
- Falcon Screens
- SeymourAV XD

FYI, you can't evaluate gain by laying translucent screen materials over a white screen. You'll see the differences and picture qualities accurately only if they are over a black background.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #25 of 26 Old 04-14-2014, 05:06 PM
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Another perspective:

You didn't say if you have kids, but the UF material is more like a fabric, it seems to me to be less easy to clean should sticky fingers find their way over to your screen (Chris, can you throw it in the wash?!), the XD is wet rag washable. And the XD is likely more accepting of any flying objects too.

FYI, I ended up with a Falcon screen due to my small room's 8.5 ft viewing distance; it also seems to be almost as durable as the XD material for my toddler factor.

- Jeff
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post #26 of 26 Old 04-15-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jjcook View Post

Another perspective:

You didn't say if you have kids, but the UF material is more like a fabric, it seems to me to be less easy to clean should sticky fingers find their way over to your screen (Chris, can you throw it in the wash?!), the XD is wet rag washable. And the XD is likely more accepting of any flying objects too.

FYI, I ended up with a Falcon screen due to my small room's 8.5 ft viewing distance; it also seems to be almost as durable as the XD material for my toddler factor.

While the XD is easily spot washable, the UF can be machine washed. Having a grommet/o-ring system helps in that respect because it's so easy to take down and toss in the washing machine.

Cheers,
Chris

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