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Seymour-Screen Excellence Ambient-Visionaire Material at CEDIA 2014

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cedia 2014
16K views 70 replies 20 participants last post by  bdht 
#1 ·


It seemed like most screen companies were highlighting ambient light-rejecting (ALR) screens at CEDIA this year. Seymour-Screen Excellence showed its new Ambient-Visionaire material, which is available with three gain values: 1.2, 1.3, and 2.1. The 1.3 version has a 70° half-gain angle—Chris Seymour calls this version the videophile's ALR screen—while the 1.2 version (pictured above) has a 45° half-gain angle. Notice that the left side of the screen is darker than the right side, which is at a shallower angle to the camera. The company claims there is no color shift at any angle, which seemed to be the case.

The material includes a layer of randomly oriented nanomirrors—over a billion on the surface of the 120" (diagonal) demo screen seen above. Seymour-Screen Excellence claims this is a more-efficient way to filter ambient light than other approaches, and it eliminates sparkles. In addition, carbon particles between the mirrors absorb light, which, along with a dark substrate, results in a dark gray screen when no image is being shown.


Randomly oriented nanomirrors cover the surface of the Ambient-Visionaire material, surrounded by carbon particles, all on a light-absorbing substrate.

This is a very interesting approach to ALR screens; I hope to get Chris Seymour and his French counterpart at Screen Excellence on the Home Theater Geeks podcast to talk about it in more depth.

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#3 ·
The only major manufacturer one is the Stewart Firehawk microperf.

I'd love to see a woven screen with light rejection. I'm sure folks are working on it.....
 
#5 ·
I have both samples on the wall now. Viewing cone on AV is far far more than on BD, also color shift on AV vs BD is almost nonexistent. All in all there is finally a screen to look at without regretting money spent. My only concern that Seymour is in tight supply for samples and they sent me a small-size sample vs. BD that is 12x12. I also really prefer Seymour AV to Stewart's FirehawkG4, they are all samples on the wall now. Seymour AV did address two issues:
  • viewing cone
  • color shift
 
#8 ·
Any word on pricing and whether or not this will be available in a retractable model? It seems counter-intuitive that many ALR screens are only available in fixed frame… seems to be missing a big chunk of the ALR market (those without dedicated theaters that would like the screen out of sight/mind when not in use… preferably in-ceiling).
 
#19 ·
Seymour-Screen Excellence now making Ambient-Visionaire in a Retractable




Hi Dougri, Paul Muto here - I handle the sales & marketing for Seymour-Screen Excellence. We are just now making the new Ambient-Visionaire in a retractable! Its available for the same price as our retractable outfitted with the acoustically transparent Enlightor4K screen surface.
 
#10 ·
Sparkling on Seymour AV is minimal in comparison to BD based on smaller samples. I am waiting for Seymour to improve their supply issues and will try to obtain larger size samples from them for Ambient Visionnaire, the one I have now is not large enough IMO. You do need a bigger piece to check for sparkling. I do not know why when asked for larger samples sellers act a bit irritated. I will test for as long as I need to before I spend $2000+ on the screen, this may not be a lot to majority of the crowd on this highest-end forum but I certainly think that $2000 is a big-ticket purchase.
 
#12 ·
Just ordered one.

After looking at the samples and comparing them to Draper and SI I decided to order EAV 1.4 from Seymour. Just want
to give a shout out to Jon at Seymour who was very informative in me making my decision. Going against the grain in that I have a total light controlled room and dark surfaces but am tired of living like a vampire. Should have in about 10 day's. :)So looking forward to it.
 
#32 ·
Black Matinee
Non-AT, for light color rooms with severe ambient light
36 degree viewing angle, 1.9xW minimum projector distance
6500K D65 dark gray, 1.4 gain
No minimum seating distance, 4K video rated
Grommet and o-ring installation

What was recommended to me....
 
#34 ·
Wow, if these folks are providing screen samples that are 5"x5", they're really doing themselves a disservice. It's going to be difficult to make a $3K purchase decision, based upon a 5"x5" sample. I wonder how many potential sales they will lose, by short-changing customers on the samples??

If they're worried about costs, I'd be happy to pay a "reasonable" price for a larger sample.


Dave
 
#35 ·
I'm looking at the Seymour Excellence Ambient Visionaire and Seymour AV Matinee Black. The Matinee Black seems to have limited viewing angle. The Ambient Visionaire has a better viewing angle and more options with 1.2, 1.3 and 2.1 gain. Is the Matinee Black for the more budget-minded or is are other reasons to pick the Matinee Black? I'm looking for a screen that works with a lot of sunlight coming from the windows to the side of the screen and not overhead lights. Like Thezaks stated, I can't make a decision based on a small sample and there's no places to view the screens.
 
#37 ·
I have tested MB vs. AV 1.3 and difference in the viewing angles and color shift is night and day. Be aware that only AV1.3 has a wider viewing cone of all 3. 1.2 and 2.1 are both what I would call normal ambient light-rejecting screens while 1.3 is unusual. AccucalHD study says that 1.3 is color accurate, I cannot attest to that scientifically as I do not measure with the colorimeter but to my eyes, I see blue shift with AV1.3, but nothing that cannot be calibrated out. On MB color shift was too much. To me Stewart FHG4 and MB looked very similar, while AV1.3 was superior to both of them. Do keep in mind my AV1.3 sample is a smaller one. All other samples I have are 8x12 and 12x12 inches. Size of samples limits room interactions and you cannot really assess how room impacts the screen, especially with ambient light screens. In my opinion even 12"x12" is too small for ambient light screen samples but then I understand that there is cost to the manufacturer to ship bigger samples too. I have been looking at 7 samples on the wall for 2 months now and some screens $2500+ in price, not a chump change by any standards. Worst part you cannot return these screens once you get them home, unless you buy Elite on Amazon, but none of the Elite ambient light screens passed my tests. At the end of the day this is my money and I will need to live with this screen. If I only could find Seymour AV locally that would be golden.

The Matinee Black seems to have limited viewing angle. The Ambient Visionaire has a better viewing angle and more options with 1.2, 1.3 and 2.1 gain.
 
#47 ·
Well, I just did some more sample testing. I did not like the 1.3 at all. I liked the Seymour AV 1.2 much better. True, it does have dropoff at an angle. The 1.3 looked more like the white screen we have on the wall, which isn't a compliment in ambient light. The 1.2 looks sharper than the 1.3.

As good as the 1.2 Seymour AV looked, the Darkstar is even better. A touch better blacks, brighter whites, better off-angle, and it's even sharper than the 1.2 Seymour AV. I am thoroughly impressed with the Darkstar!

The only thing that competes with the Darkstar is the DNP screens. The 2.3 DNP is mesmerizing with its brightness. However, the blacks just don't compare and it's not as sharp. The .8 DNP has always been a favorite of mine in the dark, however, the Darkstar's blacks are really close (nearly the same), and the whites are much brighter. The Darkstar definitely has more contrast. I've always thought that if DNP made a 1.3-1.5 gain screen (sweet spot between the .8 and the 2.3), they'd have a winner. I think the Darkstar is it. I was really surprised that the blacks were that close between the DNP .8 and the Darkstar.

For me, if I had to pick one screen to live with to use as a full time TV, it would either be the Darkstar or the DNP 2.3. Again, the 2.3 dazzles with its brightness, but the Darkstar is better overall.

For anyone getting a Darkstar sample, you will need to make sure it is oriented correctly. The sample has a label on top, so it seems like it should be positioned that way. If you do that, then like me, you'll see that the off-angle is absolutely horrible. It doesn't just drop off, it goes completely black. The sample needs to be turned on its side to get the correct results. I've told Elite screens that they need to fix this with their samples, but I'm not sure if they will. Elite screens said to shine a flashlight from the top of the sample (going down the sample). If the beam of light shines all the way down the sample (like it did for me with the label on top), then it's not correct. If the sample swallows up the beam of light (sample on its side, in my case), then it's correct.

Unfortunately, I believe that the accucalhd.com website may have had the sample oriented the wrong way, which is why the Darkstar's results were skewed...


Dave
 
#46 ·
I tried AV 1.3 sample against my Hi Power 2.8 screen and found two issues with it:

1. Shimmer is killing it for me. In my set up, it's almost like looking at wrinkled aluminium foil. I'm only 12ft away and have nearly perfect vision (I clearly see pixels in 1080p at 100" screen). My wife does not see it most of the time, but when she sees it, it takes away too much to deal with it. Also, the shimmer seems to kill resolution - when it starts shimmering, small detail is lost completely. So as much as I wanted to like this screen, it will probably not work.

2. The light cone is too wide for my needs. This material sends a lot of light to the sides, which I'm afraid will create too much ambient light in my set up. Should be ok for bigger rooms, but for my set up with 3 seats 12 ft away from a 100" screen it's not the best fit.

On the flip side, blacks were MUCH improved compared to Hi Power. To the point that I started enjoying hi power less (it's damaged, so I need to replace it anyway).

So now I'm looking for a different material. Something possibly with narrower cone, maybe even retroreflective, with high resolution (very fine texture), with darker background compared to high power, and some ambient light rejection. Any thoughts on this? Maybe darkstar?
 
#50 ·
I tried AV 1.3 sample against my Hi Power 2.8 screen and found two issues with it:

1. Shimmer is killing it for me. In my set up, it's almost like looking at wrinkled aluminium foil. I'm only 12ft away and have nearly perfect vision (I clearly see pixels in 1080p at 100" screen). My wife does not see it most of the time, but when she sees it, it takes away too much to deal with it. Also, the shimmer seems to kill resolution - when it starts shimmering, small detail is lost completely. So as much as I wanted to like this screen, it will probably not work.
that's a shame regarding the AV 1.3. I thought that may be the one to get. I'm worried the DNP 08-08 is not going to be bright enough and the 23-23 is going to sparkle too much. Hope Elite Screen Darkstar is the answer.
 
#69 ·
Can anyone recommend, for a screen around 2.2 gain or higher, what is best, the Seymour Ambient Visionaire 2.1, or something else?

It says it's 2.1, but I don't know what the actual gain is. Other choices I'm aware of are Severtson Stellar White 2.2, Stewart 5D which is 2.2 or 2.3 I think, StrongMDI Northview White 2.2 and 2.5, and Harkness Perlux HiWhite 2.2 or PWT+ 2.0.

I don't need ambient light rejection, but it's a nice bonus if the screen that comes with it is also better than the competition in a batcave as well. I am looking for the best one for a batcave, but it's possible the Seymour is the best one for that too, so that's why Im asking.



Why doesn't the Seymour Ambient Visionaire qualify? Is it missing the wide cone, or the high contrast, or what? I thought it had both, relatively speaking...
 
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