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-   -   Dila owner Poll on acoust transp. screens (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/18978-dila-owner-poll-acoust-transp-screens.html)

Jmartin 04-26-2000 04:17 PM

Just received my Dukane 9015, ISCO, and running CI, DTC-100, and HTPC....Now I need a screen and would like to place all three speakers behind the screen. So, I'd like to know which screen you are using with a similar set up as mine....Draper AT1200?, Stewart micro-perf?,Da-lite?, ?? what gain is appropriate for this Dila? explanations encouraged.

Dean McManis 04-27-2000 03:13 AM

JMartin,

It's interesting that you bring this up now as I am working on setting up a similar setup, except with a G1000, ISCO, and a HTPC.

I just ordered a 180" 16:9 DaLite Audio Vision screen and I will be making a supporting frame to mount it.

My current setup uses a 138" 16:9 Draper M2500 fixed screen which worked quite well with the G1000/ISCO combo.

Even though I've looked at a 8 X 11 sample piece of Draper AT 1200 screen material (which looked pretty good)I haven't actually seen the DaLite AT screen in person, so I'm taking a bit of a risk buying it.

My motivation for getting the DaLite material was mostly monetary, with the Draper screen only being available in a finished frame for $4000+, the Stewart being even more costly, and the DaLite material (without frame) being less than $700.

I'll have to wait a couple weeks to get the screen up and to get my G1000 back from calibration to see how it works, but zooming out to the larger future size looked pretty good, even on the flat white back wall.

With your G15's extra brightness and the ISCO to boot any one of these screens should look great, and I have high hopes that the holes will be invisible from normal viewing distances.

-Dean.

Jmartin 04-27-2000 11:37 AM

Hi Dean!
thanks for responding. I had a feeling you would have almost the same set up based on your previous posts, I think that Sbeall (Scott ?) also may have a similar set up and it would be interesting to hear and compare notes as it relates to screens with our Dilas. A rep form Sterwart suggested a gain of 1.3 for the Dila 9015. My biggest question, however, is the attenuation these perforated screen have on the sound if ALL the speakers were behind the screen. The AT 1200 seems almost like a speaker screen/cloth, and one would wonder of the tranparency to light too! I guess life is not perfect. Anybody else out there with a Dila and trasparent screen???? Please share your observations. thanks

[This message has been edited by Jmartin (edited April 27, 2000).]

Dean McManis 04-27-2000 01:44 PM

JMartin,

I was encouraged by the look of my Draper AT1200 screen material sample swatch.

It does have a woven apprearance, but the picture quality wasn't as dark as I would have guessed with the holes, and the detail was good, even compared to my normal Draper M2500 screen.

With a light source behind the screen you could see through it, but with any light on the front of the screen and it appeared totally opaque.

The only reason that I didn't go with the AT 1200 was the price.

As for the Stewart AT screen, from pictures it seems to have many more (smaller) holes for the sound, but I don't know how it compares accoustically.

I could hear music clearly through the AT 1200 screen material, but I understand that there will be some high end loss from the AT screen.

I have electrostatic front speakers which are naturally bright, so I'm not expecting any noticable audio degradfation that can't be compensated by the reciever's equalizer.

And since all of the front speakers as opposed to just the center channel will be behind the screen, the front soundstage should be consistant.

-Dean.

Frank J Manrique 04-28-2000 02:52 PM

Perforated screens will intronduce high frequency losses. The amount will depend on the type of material and size of the perforations (in the case of the Draper 1200, the "weave"). Whatever the case, some sonic HF compensation will be required. Equalization to some extent will most likely be needed, and careful positioning of the speakers in relation to the screen must also be taken into consideration; loudspeakers cannot be placed too close to the screen's material, otherwise sonic "echo" will interfere and mar the primary sound output from each front channel transducers because of a smearing effect. Just a thought...

It was my understanding that both the Draper and Stewart perforated screens were limited to 10' diagonal sizes, at least in a seamless configuration. The sizes you folks are working with belie this assumption.
Can the Da-Lite acoustical screen material be obtainable in such sizes without any seams?

I am very interested in learning the outcome in each case, so I hope you folks post your experiences...

-THTS

Dennis Erskine 04-28-2000 05:30 PM

I cannot reveal the details of the testing; however, many of the acoustic screen fabrics have been tested independently (name brands). Some of the "acoustic" materials registered as much as -45dB@20kHz. Unacceptable. The Stewart MicroPerf is down approximately 2dB at 20kHz. Their THX screen is shipped with a compensator to remove, or equalize out, the loss.

It was my understanding the maximum non-seam size was 40' x 90'.

------------------
D. Erskine
DEsign Cinema Privee
www.DEsignCinema.com
Imagine what you could do, if you could do all you imagine.

Dean McManis 04-29-2000 01:02 AM

My screen will have a horizontal seam in it.

I was told that width is not an issue because the material is made seamless on a roll, but there is an 84" maximum in height with the DaLite AT material because the roll width is 7'.

If the seam is noticably visible, I will mask off the extra four inches of the screen.

Parts of this whole project are largely experimental so I will have to see how it looks and sounds with the new screen.

-Dean.

[This message has been edited by Dean McManis (edited April 29, 2000).]

Jmartin 05-05-2000 12:58 AM

Derron, I read in LCD/DLP/DILA forum about a person who has a micro-perf Stewart screen that was creating problems tracking the digital display from the projector. An explanation offered was infact that digital projectors seem to track the tiny micro perfs and cause faint lines accross the screen. I know that your Draper is more of a "weave". Do you experience any of these ill effects??

Jmartin 05-05-2000 11:38 AM

For those of you following this thread, I just learned that Stewart can custom build a standard screen of your choice with a custom mirco perforated black drop! I think this will be the best for me as now I can locate all 3 speakers behind the screen (although high position-I had no place for them below)and not run the chance of ill effects with the perforations.

advantange:
1. Get all the transmission light without the associated loss due to holes.
2. much cheaper in price
3. much, much cheaper in price

disadvantage:
1. Audio not directly coupled to visual

I spent about an hour listening to sound transmission through the samples by draper (AT1200), steward micro perf, and dalite. In my opinion the AT1200 has the best transmission of sound, followed by stewart. The samples were too small for me to have an opinion on image performance.

I Called draper to see if the woven material could be used as a black drop but they say it cannot. Well, I think I'll be calling Stewart!

Jeffrey 05-07-2000 02:38 PM

Hi

Da-lite says they can do a black drop in their perforated material. I'm not sure if it can be done with all of their screen surfaces or just the tensioned ones.

Jeff

Jmartin 05-08-2000 07:47 AM

Jeff, thanks for the info. I'll be looking into the Da-Lite too!

Jmartin 05-08-2000 09:14 PM

Panaramax: So, then by having less holes per square inch, will the regualar cinema perf be *more* restrictive to sound? Seems like it ougt to since one cannot beat physics! Again, I really feel it's a trade-off: sound, or vision!

Jaime

[This message has been edited by Jmartin (edited May 08, 2000).]

Dean McManis 05-10-2000 02:25 AM

Panaramax,

No offense taken.

I will see how well it works out in about two weeks when I get my projector back from calibration and have my new screen up.

I looked at samples of the Draper AT1200 material with my D-ILA and the ISCO and it looked fine.

I've actually read more posts on the net about moire problems with the microperf screens than other AT materials.

Worst case I'll just keep my current M2500 screen which looks great with the G1000 and be out $700, as opposed to several thousand for the Stewart screen.

So I'm not worried.

Thanks,
-Dean.

Jmartin 05-10-2000 10:33 PM

Panaramax,

Gee, How do you really feel about this issue?? Just kidding. Seriously now, I just posted another "thought" under LCD/DLP/Dila under "10HT and Stewart microperf problem" or something like that....What do you think?

Jaime


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