Screen shadowbox have their advantages.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 07-17-2000, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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A 35mm film forum http://film-tech.com/
Under (film handlers) they have a great thread about theaters that had shadowbox screens and how they greatly improved the contrast and how it made the screen appear much larger.
This is a great idea for HT that no one has thought of before.
For a description you would take your screen and build a black frame around it but the screen would be in a black tunnel surrounded on all four sides and set back in.
This would increase the contrast and the apparent screen size.
By the way while your at the forum check out the pic page.




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post #2 of 18 Old 07-17-2000, 11:12 PM
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This is on function and effect of a properly design Proscenium. For an example: www.yaussy.com.

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post #3 of 18 Old 07-18-2000, 01:08 PM
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Do you mean build a box into the wall or a shadowbox like the frame on the Draper Shadowbox Clarion or my Vutec fixed wall?

http://www.draperinc.com/projection/ht-permanently.html
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-18-2000, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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anson
The shadowbox is like putting the screen in a black tunnel but the sides and top/bottom go out with an outward flare for a couple of feet. It is hard to discribe.


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post #5 of 18 Old 07-18-2000, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burned&Warped:
will grey frame be better than carbon black?


A non-reflective black surround is the best for this type of application. It allows maximum contrast and minimum reflection, two of the primary goals of a shadowbox.

Jeff


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post #6 of 18 Old 07-18-2000, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff is correct. Flat Black is best. 2 feet minimum would work well.
Yes at your screen size and the shadow box you will be fine.
I think you will be fine without the shadow box at that screen size but the SB will enhance the experience.

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post #7 of 18 Old 07-19-2000, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Burned&Warped
The black paint can be rolled on or spayed on but mack sure it is Flat black only.
As far as material make sure it does not have any shine to it. The Flat black paint will work better.

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post #8 of 18 Old 07-19-2000, 01:21 PM
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Alan,

Draper's is only 1.5" deep... http://www.draperinc.com/projection/...html#shadowbox
Now I know that's shallow - but there is no way in #@^&Ã*ç that I can go 2 feet deep. Would 6" be a waste of time and energy? Is any shadowing better than none? TIA.

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post #9 of 18 Old 07-19-2000, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes 6" would be better than none.

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post #10 of 18 Old 07-19-2000, 04:05 PM
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Alan,

Thanks for this interesting thread - you've got me redesigning a custom screen. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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post #11 of 18 Old 07-20-2000, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Its never ending.

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post #12 of 18 Old 07-20-2000, 07:32 PM
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The depth is developed by extending sides toward you in the z-axis (away from the wall) with a deviation toward the side walls of the viewing room. Absolutley stellar way to improve contrast, too bad I have a retractable screen.
Don O

[This message has been edited by Don O'Brien (edited July 20, 2000).]

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post #13 of 18 Old 07-20-2000, 11:30 PM
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There is something which works better than a shadow box, and that is a "U shaped edging around the screen. Instead of providing a area that is flat black and preventing reflections to a certain extent, you should more properly use a "trap". The "U" shape allows you to have a greater effect than a average deep shadow box in much less space. Consider increasing the absorptive area in that U shape as well. Perhaps a row of ridges sticking out from the bottom of the U shape as well for extra absorption. Experiment. Have fun.

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post #14 of 18 Old 07-21-2000, 12:21 PM
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Alan,

This idea isn't new to home theater. I am quite sure I've seen articles suggesting this very thing by Russ Hershelman. I'm also sure I've got notes from one of his CEDIA lectures where he suggests doing this.

Great to bring it up though.

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post #15 of 18 Old 07-21-2000, 07:56 PM
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Here's a couple of images found by following Alan's lead:

http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/widescreen/wmfig3.jpg
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/widescreen/wmfig2.jpg
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/widescreen/wmfig4.gif

In these representations there is no horizontal boxing as the screens are floor to cieling models. (no room)
Frankly I don't understand which solution might work best - the J shape or the upside-down U shape.
(KBK please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming what I state below)


Burned&Warped,

According to KBK's post it seems likely that he is suggesting the reverse:


------------viewer is here-------------


U========== screen ===========U


Light would enter the U and bounce around inside it, dwindling at each refection off of its matt black inner surface.
I assume his suggestion of a ridges at the bottom of the gulley would further scatter any remaining light back onto the sides rather than forward towards the viewer.

Maybe one could combine the virtues of both approaches?


--------------viewer is here---------------
............................................................
............................................................
............................................................
\\......................................................... /
\\\\........................................................//
\\\\\\U========== screen ===========U ///


Any ideas on how this might work? http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/confused.gif

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post #16 of 18 Old 07-23-2000, 07:27 AM
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Then there is the addditional aspect of the possibility of having a u shape on either side of a perforated screen set up, so as to aid in the contrasting. This would be due to the nature of the problem at hand being evident on both sides, albeit quite muted in nature on the inner surface. Due to the nature of the characteristics of a perforated screen, these things should noticably improve the contrast level availible.


Such an arrangement could also be quite handy in the construction of the mounting of LCD panels, DLP panels and the like for projector manufacturers. In creating the perfect black level, not only does every little bit help, but they each play an important and signifigant cummulative role.


I see what you are thinking there, B&W. It may work suprisingly well.

Logitudinally cutting a large (6 inch diameter) plastic sewage pipe would provide the ultimate cheapo solution here. Flat black paint, and some glued in cardboard ridges... all painted flat black... The usage of the drain pipe (how fitting) allows the creation of two pieces from the one. Perhaps a bit of rotation of the thing to 'bias' the collective shape so that more is in use on the front as opposed to the back, to give the 'lion's share' of the effect to the front where it is most needed.

It may be found that the orientation of the ridges may be most effective if they sit so they are seen only 'edge on' fron the viewing area. This would provide absorption of the scattered reflections, but disallow direct return of unabsorbed bits hitting the viewing surface again and damaging contrast level. The maximum effect allowable, so to speak. Each edge of the screen would have to be deeply imbedded into the 'U' shape to make shure no light came through from each side's edging.


Here's my attempt at a picture of my intent....


----viewing area-------


[------screen------]


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[This message has been edited by KBK (edited July 23, 2000).]

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post #17 of 18 Old 09-06-2000, 10:45 PM
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How is shadowboxing your screen affected by using a projector that is ceiling mounted say 20 degrees from perpendicular to the screen...doesn't it create an unwanted "shadow".

I was thinking of covering a thin piece of masonite with screen material behind a 4"x4" square PVC pipe frame covered in black felt or painted flat black. This would have a similar shadow box effect 4" deep and a mask 4" wide around the screen. But, how would the "non-direct" pointing of the projected image cast a shadow off of the lip of the box?

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post #18 of 18 Old 11-10-2000, 07:11 PM
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Sorry I never got back to that one, B&W, but you are correct in your understanding of my intent for such a design.

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