Making a Screen: The Indefinitive Guide - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 40 Old 11-20-2000, 10:31 PM
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The Plan is still to sell the paint. it is best to sell first to installers, so as to get the highest, most experienced level and type of feedback from the folks who have seen it all. This serves the end user well in the long run. Let somone elese go through the headaches, you should say. this allows the installers to get used to the possibility of doing things another way.

I will say that I was hammered from all sides to not allow the general public access to the raw material. I was told that I was throwing away a perfectly valuble company, that has a base product that could be deemed extremely valuble. Ii took a lot of heat for my stance. I stuck to my guns. I feel that for front projection to really take off, there must be a product out there which is superior in construction and execution, whih can be obtained for low (relative) cost. That product must represent a marked improvement over what would be and is currently availible, and be flexable enough to bend with the market. It must be reasonably priced at all levels, and maintain it's quality under all circumstances. A EXTREME grade of screen paint 'systems' fills this bill nicely. The end result is entirely in the hands of the end user, or the person employing it. It can be sprayed on to a wall to make a 'crap' screen that will still look incredibly good, or it can be handled by experts to produce the best. All a matter of personal choice.

It allows for an incredible range of possibilities. It would suit the good insallers' attitude well. Their screen sales would sit squarely upon their skills in screen making. They can 'gather up' local sales due to their own screen building and making lore. The better the skills of the maker, the better the customer service, the more that can be demanded (or expected), and the more that will be paid.

I will of course have to represent my own product, and make screens too. My paint, I get to start first. I do not want to have installers call me for screens, I want to sell them the raw paint. Now that the design is on the books, a 5000 litre batch can be made up if needed. I don't think we will be needing that much though. Production of the stuff is not a concern. As have said in another post, I am down to designing the label. Pardon my sense of humor, as you will see.


BTW, full list price will not be established (final) without feedback from dealers.
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[This message has been edited by KBK (edited 11-21-2000).]

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post #32 of 40 Old 11-21-2000, 01:51 PM
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KBK-

I'm here! I was off in the High Desert regaining my sanity, but I'm back and would definitely like to get in on the run. Am I too late?
If not, please count me in.

Allen B.

A woman is weeping over shadows on a screen, a man gets excited over ink on a page, a child is frightened over words in a book-
The mind gets caught up in the unreal and people become identified with it. But its power is such that it rules the world.
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post #33 of 40 Old 11-21-2000, 06:15 PM
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Sure. you're in. On of the other guys I have spoken to is a guy who goes by the name xxxxxx on e-bay. (I just realized it would be unfair to mention his name) He sells projectors, and I approached him first. He was VERY enthusiastic. Murphy's law says..what can go wrong, will go wrong. His dad owns a paint company. Terrific..... I'll sell it to him anyway.

Anyone else want to get into a first run test? (this is a paying test, but at a reduced cost....) Any suggestions as to who might be suitable?

BTW, BarkingArt, 16L pails are always available. They ain't cheap. This ain't driveway sealer. List will be around a horrific seeming $2K for a 16L pail. But that would be enough to do a *solid* dozen screens. It takes about 1.25 liters to do a 16x9 screen at about 50" height. Usage will vary, of course.

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post #34 of 40 Old 11-22-2000, 07:15 AM
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KBK,

Here are several things that have caught my eye.

1. Your paint will cost approx 160 or so, without markup, to complete a screen. This does not take into account frame, backing material etc. What benefits would you give your product over a retail screen.

2. You mention a 50" vertical on the screen, what suggestions do you have for a backing material that will take us beyond the current limits that most of us have realized with blackout or dropcloth materials. My latest research has led me to a vinyl printed road sign manufacturer, that is using vinyl banners instead of the old wallpapered 10x40' road signs. Only problem is that the material is too light to take a paint, but it takes a big ol' inkjet printer just fine.

3. In a previous post you mentioned spraying on a wall to make a crap screen look incredibly good. Without a professional, would you suggest that a DIY'er put your paint on a primed wall or use a backer material? Of course this question is in relation to the best quality, not portability! And, if you can advise on a wall scenario, what prep work should be completed?

4. What about grey? I have a feeling that the paint right now is a white base?

Thanks... I hope everything works out well for you.

Scott
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post #35 of 40 Old 11-22-2000, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by KBK:

The material beneath must be at least white as well. You are basically creating a layered system, with the junky stuff below, and the el-primo stuff up top.
I guess this rules out the option of having a medium/high gain screen that has a color matched base coat to perform with different projectors? Has the grey gone bye-bye or do you plan a different paint combo for grey screen requests?

"99 bottle's of paint on the wall!"
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post #36 of 40 Old 11-22-2000, 12:39 PM
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Nope. You create the grey you need, with the proper additives, that will be supplied, or I create and sell it as a finished item. There will be different levels of greys availble straight from me, and some room for experimentation, with a additive if needed. The capacity for variation is the key here. Thus the desire for a calibrated grey scale card from Kodak. Everyone can find one and use it as the basic ruler for grayscale %'s. Thus, the understanding of the market emerges all of it's own.


The problem for us here, is that I am thinking CRT, and you are problaby thinking DIGITAL projectors, ie., DLP, LCD, DILA, etc.

The two DO meet, and that is at the base screen paint product level. I had to get to a 'perfect' white, so I could... fade to black.
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post #37 of 40 Old 11-22-2000, 09:29 PM
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I used my townhouse wall for experimentation (shhhhh.... don't tell the landlord!) It makes a terrific surface, if you have little respect for the wall. It would be best to make a perfect white first, or something akin to a decent white.

I mentioned the 50" vertical, so that folks could get a handle on the coverage aspects, and the costs involved, for their own purposes and interests in designs.

What one would want to do, is use some sort of white base that has a well sealed surface after drying, to make sure that not too much of the quite expensive screen paint is absorbed by the wall during the earlier phases of drying. One would also have to be sure that the original wall paint is fully dry before starting, so that the first surface is consistent in behavior. A slight textural aspect might be desirable. This can also be accentuated via thickness of mixture, pressure levels, and air/paint ratio's etc. All kinds of areas are available to screw up by. A 'gravity fed' sprayer might be the best unit for this use, as you would get to use as much of the mixture as possible. BE CAREFUL! you do not want the last little bits of paint mixture to 'fart' out of the sprayer---- right in the middle of your perfect screen!

The screen paint is not totally opaque in nature. THEREFORE, it is vital that the screen material beneath it does not cause interference. If you find it odd that it is not opaque, well, there are good reasons for this. The layering would be quite thin at best, anyway. The material beneath must be at least white as well. You are basically creating a layered system, with the junky stuff below, and the el-primo stuff up top. Now you begin to see why spraying skill is mandatory. I can sell it to the general public, and can do everything possible to prevent disaster, but cannot be held responsible for screw-ups within the realm of spraying skill and technique.

For instance, it is possible for a member of the public to purchase high grade, highly expensive car paints if they wish, but it is not easy -by any expression- to paint a car properly.

BTW, the best results may come from using one of the best set-ups for pearlescent sprays, as the mixture is pretty complex.
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post #38 of 40 Old 11-25-2000, 09:37 PM
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Wow, $2K for 16 liters? What kind of resin are you using, and what kind of pigments? If it's trade secret, that's ok by me. If you need sourcing for any of your raws, drop me a private message, I'll see what I can do.

Oh, and I wouldn't be too worried about the vinyl acrylics in the Mautz paint. I used to call on them, and they put together a decent can of paint.

I am mainly posting in the Tivo fourm, if anyone wants to get ahold of me, send me an email or private message.

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post #39 of 40 Old 11-27-2000, 04:53 AM
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Yep. It suprised the heck out of me too. I thought, at first, when I started this little venture, that I ws going to find a CHEAP way of creating the best screen possible. Well, I mangaed to get the best screen possible, but the 'cheap' part is definitely relative. The paint is the best, and the costs involved are directly reflected in the pricing. Like I said, the most complex mixture that ever came out of a place that has formulated 4000 different paints, and proper suspention of complexly pigmented stuctures is DEFINITELY an art unto it's own. I certianly helped develop the final product, but as to it's proper design and creation, well, I had to bow to the true experts there, that's for sure.(and the guy who did it is definitely head and shoulders above the rest)

That's the way it always goes. You start off on that chain of thought..."seems simple enough", you say, and then....you start to see where it all goes, and before you know it, you are eyeball deep in a complexity that was not there when you took your little 'surface' look at the situation. Sort like a relationship.

There are some great puns here! As in: 'There is alot more going on there than meets the eye!... etc.,

So, my advice to Noah remains the same: Keep going, and you will finally get there... after quite a bit of thought, if you are determined enough. You only need to go far enough to satisfy yourself, but there is definitely room to pursure things in this area until you have spent a couple of years worth of energy on it. Even then, greater understanding of the situation still rolls in, bit by bit....I am sure that the guys developing screens aren't foolish enough to think that they know it all, even if they do have 15-20 years in the business. They just have to seem that way to you, otherwise, how do you buy with confidence?

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post #40 of 40 Old 11-29-2000, 07:49 AM
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Ken,

Thanks for the interesting info on spray paint application. Does this mean that I should find a place that rents out automotive paint sprayers? Wouldn't such used units have residual pigments in them that would mix into your pristine blend? Must I purchase a high ticket sprayer from a professional supplier bringing this homemade screen into a Cineramax price league? I guess I've got more questions than paint cans these days. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Thanks for keeping me posted. Cheers,

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