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-   -   Source for Black Felt for screen? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/19332-source-black-felt-screen.html)

Larry Davis 10-14-1999 03:42 PM

Hi Folks,
does anybody know of a source for black felt? I'd like to use it to mask a screen.

Larry

Larry Davis 10-14-1999 07:44 PM

I will check it out Derron. Hopefully it doesn't cost much, so I can try a few things out.

Larry

Mark Rejhon 10-14-1999 08:12 PM

In Canada, I got mine at Bouclair.

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Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
www.marky.com


Donald Bennett 10-31-1999 11:34 AM

Larry,

I tried black felt around my screen and it improves the contrast significantly. I actually decided to have custom black drapes made that cover the whole wall that the screen is attached to. It helps the acoustics also.

Don't forget to also try putting blackout material behind the screen. I had Stewart build in blackout material when they made my screen. I first discovered this at my friends installation, light would pass through the screen and bounce back from the wall decreasing the contrast.

Good Luck, Don

Guy Kuo 10-31-1999 05:24 PM

Black velvet or felt are very close to being perfectly absorptive, even more than the blackest flat black paint I've ever found. If my eyes are dark adapted, I can faintly make out projected white areas on my black velvet masking panels.

Be prepared to do the fabric store shuffle. You get to wait half an hour in line to have your fabric cut from the bolt. Then you go into another line to pay for your fabric. It's a completely different mentality for customer service. Seems each customer must gossip at length with the fabric cutter in order to feel satisfied. Speed is not relevant. Bring LOTS of patience to spend with the ladies.



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Guy Kuo
www.ovationsw.com
Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD



Larry Davis 10-31-1999 09:10 PM

Thanks all, my screen should be delivered this week. I will definitely use black velvet for the back of the screen. I was thinking about just painting the area behind the screen black (it's already a dark grey), but after Guy's comments, I'm going with the velvet. I am going to use a 1000 ansi lumen dlp projector, so reflected light lowering the contrast of my picture is a real concern.

Larry

Guy Kuo 10-31-1999 09:57 PM

Larry, I'm one who was very annoyed by halation due to light going through my old Dalite screens, bouncing back off the rear wall and back through the screen. However, I have my reservations about spending your money on further darkening the wall behind your screen if it is already dark gray. The need for this also decreases if the screen fabric is opaque. Some are more opaque than others. Darkening the rear wall will improve things only fractionally if it is already dark gray. Black velvet is not cheap. Consider taking that same money applying it towards darkening things in front of the screen. A black rug in front of the projection screen will probably go further in increasing contrast ratio. I use a large but low cost piece of black automobile carpeting in front of my screen. Darkening the rear wall of the room is also something to think about. If you have already taken care of things in front of the screen, then go ahead and go after the last few percent improvement of making dark gray behind your screen really black.



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Guy Kuo
www.ovationsw.com
Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD



Larry Davis 11-01-1999 09:28 PM

Thanks for the advice Guy. I was thinking about installing a new rug. Although I get my screen this week, my projector won't arrive for a month, so I have time to plan exactly what to do.

Larry

Mark Rejhon 11-03-1999 10:07 AM

FYI - I only spent $10 CDN ($7 US) on 48"x86" continuous black felt. Mind you, it was on sale at half price. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

You don't need perfect 100% absorpotion behind the screen - I guarantee you that there is no discernable difference between black felt or black velvet, even though velvet probably absorbs light a bit better. The screens aren't transparent, they're something like 90% opaque (give or take) - what you really need is to kill most of the remaining 10%. The ~0.1% (give or take) of light still reflecting from black felt, will still be mostly blocked again by the 90% opaque screen.

Black felt is still much better than dark grey walls behind the screen - and very few people can tell the improvement in contrast by covering up the grey wall with something blacker.

So there's no need to go overboard - just use any cheap non-glossy black material behind the screen. Velvet is pushing it for this type of application - Black felt will do the job perfectly as far as human eyes are concerned.

------------------
Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
www.marky.com


Larry Davis 11-03-1999 04:29 PM

Thanks for the tip Mark. I assembled my screen today and placed it against the wall. With a flash light shining near it, light went right through the screen and onto the wall, although there wasn't much to see. It didn't look like that much light reflected back, but the effect of lighting up my whole screen could be another story. I'm going to see how this looks with a projector before I mount it. I have no problem spending ten bucks for the felt. It'll be worth it at that price.

Larry

Donald Bennett 11-04-1999 05:11 PM

Flat black paint should work as well as black felt, but I don't know for sure. I know they use flat black in dark rooms and they are pretty dark :-)

Don

Dana 11-19-1999 12:50 PM


I've been running my projector with nothing behind the screen except the white wall for quite a while, and have recently realized I should do something about it. I had intended to put a layer of plain black fabric ($3/yd compared to $20/yd for velvet) behind the screen. This fabric is obviously not as good as velvet, but how well do people think it would work?

Let us assume for this example that BlackHole brand Velvet absorbs 99.99% of the light, and my Thin'n'Cheap brand black fabric absorbs 95% of the light. Further, that 10% of the light is going through my VuTec screen. A nice white wall would give me almost 10% back, my cheap fabric 0.5%, and velvet 0.001%. Seems that even the cheap fabric would be an enormous improvement, and at a cost of $21 instead of $140. I know, "why buy a $15k projector setup and then bitch about $100" but there seem to be an infinite number of projects that are "only $100 or so", not to mention the hundreds of cool "$1000 or so" projects.

This same material on the walls really darkens the room dramatically, and is draped everywhere (which is why I have extra). I still don't know how to deal with the white ceiling, and my wife is against paint.

DaveN 11-19-1999 02:27 PM

Ok guys,
How do you mount the velvet on a wallpapered wall?

Dave

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gireesh 11-20-1999 07:39 PM

Dana,

To put things in perspective... one could buy several DVD disks for $100. So, it is not so bad not to 'waste' money.

Gireesh.

[This message has been edited by gireesh (edited November 20, 1999).]

Gannon 12-06-1999 05:55 PM

3m makes a great spray adhesive called Super 77. I've used it for more applications than I can count.

It should work well for applying velvet to the walls...

John

Guy Kuo 12-07-1999 01:11 AM

I've painted all my walls and ceiling flat black. I'd say that flat black paint behind the screen is already adequate to take care of halation. More than that is chasing that last tiny bit of improvement while driving up costs. Theoretically, velvet behind the screen would be better, but I doubt it would be as perceivable as when I made the switch from a white wall behind the screen fabric to black.

Hint: I first tried things out by hanging some black bed sheets behind the screen. It was inexpensive and reversible.

------------------
Guy Kuo
www.ovationsw.com
Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD



kenh 01-11-2001 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Guy Kuo:
Black velvet or felt are very close to being perfectly absorptive, even more than the blackest flat black paint I've ever found. If my eyes are dark adapted, I can faintly make out projected white areas on my black velvet masking panels.

Be prepared to do the fabric store shuffle. You get to wait half an hour in line to have your fabric cut from the bolt. Then you go into another line to pay for your fabric. It's a completely different mentality for customer service. Seems each customer must gossip at length with the fabric cutter in order to feel satisfied. Speed is not relevant. Bring LOTS of patience to spend with the ladies.

How How true, i just mentioned this to my wife how the women gossip and the cutting table and you wait for ever. she just laughted

krasmuzik 01-11-2001 04:47 PM

KBK usually your posts are a bit off the wall. But my carpet dealer actually came up with this bit regarding the sheep before you did. I was concerned with reflection of the poly fibres from the screen on the black stage carpet and star field carpet, they made sure that I got the more expensive wool carpet to solve the problem. Makes sense to me - shiny sheep would get eaten by wolves quicker than non-shiny sheep regardless of black or white sheep. Baa. Baa....


KBK 01-11-2001 09:04 PM

When you go to purchase 'felt', make sure it is a felt that has a high wool content. It is the natural fibres in the 'german' felt that causes it to work as well as it does. Amongst other fantastic side benifits. Sheep know better than plastics manufacturers. Millions of years of evolution tells them so.

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---Place Signature Here---

klutzo 01-12-2001 03:04 PM

Gug!

I wouldn't want a bunch of fabric GLUED to the back of my wall. UNless of course the screen is oging to be a permamnent installation. How about low light curtain rods, you could use this to make a more Theatre/Movie like setting. I actually am toying with the idea of making my own Movie Curtains. You could have three layers. One for the back, the second for the sides, and the third to completely cover your screen.

Klutzo.

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Klutzo, the newbie HT Boy.
BA mains, Energy surrounds and sub.
Sharpvision main FP
Sony Wega aux monitor
Dalite 2.8 Gain screen

Frank J Manrique 01-12-2001 11:46 PM

Hi, Larry!

I will most emphatically recommend black felt as the material to use behind and all around a screen...any screen used for projection...whether white or even the new Grayhawk material, which I yet to see.

Painting won't really do the trick, but is better than nothing, I suppose. The idea is to prevent any extraneous light from splashing around and bouncing back onto the screen thus marring the projected image. Also, having matte black surrounding the screen's environment WILL improve reproduction of blacks and enhance contrast as black is part of the gray scale. "Shadow boxing" a screen would be the best route but it adds complexity and cost. In any event, in a darkened felt-treated room your eyes will be basically riveted on the image in front of you as little else will compete with it. BTW, black felt can also be utilized as drapery, which in turn can be used as a sort of poor man's masking...

I have posted abut this method a few times in the past. Some fellow members decided to try it then and upon seeing the results they too immediately became believers. I'm confident that you will find the results more than satisfying. Plus the overall cost for the material is insignificant by comparison to the visually derived benefits...Cheers!

-THTS

Larry Davis 01-13-2001 10:13 AM

Hi Frank!
Well I'm surprised to see that this thread is still active. I posted it back in '99. I am using a Stewart Studiotek screen with the V-luxe velvet border. I have painted the ceiling and wall behind the screen a very dark gray, kind of a light black. I may still try the velvet behind the screen...

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All the best,
Larry

Frank J Manrique 01-13-2001 03:24 PM

Klutzo,

Great idea! Yep, the three drape set up will work best, IMHO...

Hiya, Larry!

Oops! Didn't see the original posted date, and forgot about your recent changes. Anyway, the black felt material use and methodology for masking, framing, and light blocking remains valid...Cheers! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

-THTS

sstieferman 01-15-2001 08:54 AM

Here are a few pics of my setup. I've got a clothes rod across the top with four king sized, green sheets that have been scrunched. My ceiling is 9 feet high and a king size sheet is 120"x90" I believe. Anyways, a hole was cut at each end of the top "large" seam where the clothes rod was threaded through.

During movie time, with all lights off, the wall dissapears...
http://www.geocities.com/sstieferman/pics/moto.jpg http://www.geocities.com/sstieferman/pics/screen5.jpg


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