Lumen star screen 500.1 contrast ration new tech. from Japan unreal/ - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 10-08-2001, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Check this web www.VandAproducts.com/lumenstar.htm
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post #2 of 33 Old 10-08-2001, 09:28 PM
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It sounds similar (though I don't know if it is) to VuTecs new screen, but without the size limitation. Hopefully it won't be so pricey, either.

How'd you find this? Do you know anything besides what's on the site (like who makes it)?

Thanks for the tip!

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post #3 of 33 Old 10-09-2001, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I personally have seen the BLACK STAR from VUTEC at CIDIA. not impressed at all accord to Mr KOka this is a totaly different product.
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post #4 of 33 Old 10-09-2001, 11:54 AM
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What could there be about a sheet of ribbed plastic to justify costs like that? Lop a zero off the cost and they'd probably sell as fast as they could make them.

MIKE

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
--H. L. Mencken
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post #5 of 33 Old 10-09-2001, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Those Co. put thusands of hours in reasurch and developament, lots of professinals and optical enginiers put a lot of efort into it. I give a credit to them, this is a lot diferent then growing corn in the midwest.
Ps; I dont eat corn.

[This message has been edited by Angeli662 (edited 10-09-2001).]
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post #6 of 33 Old 10-09-2001, 09:39 PM
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I called the vendor for a price quote (800-234-5995). A 100" 16:9 screen is - are you ready for this? - $12,999.

(ouch)

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Roberts Family Theater

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post #7 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 04:56 AM
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Angeli662,

How did you find the number of research hours for this? Did a company rep. tell you this? If so, who?

Who did the research?

If thousands of hours of research was done, why are they claiming a 500:1 contrast ratio? It is not possible for ANY screen alone to cause ANY particular contrast ratio. Even magic screens must obey the laws of physics, right?

Think for a minute now. They are either A. making a deliberately misleading claim (lying to sell screens), or B. mistaken (ignorant of even the most basic screen science).

The screen may be a wonderful product, but there is something seriously wrong with the way the company is marketing it. Caution and skepticism are warranted.


You might also be surprised to learn how much research and science is used to grow corn in the midwest. I won't make up an hour numberhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif, but it is certainly higher than a projector screen project.

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post #8 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 11:38 AM
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"If thousands of hours of research was done, why are they claiming a 500:1 contrast ratio?"


What does one have to do with the other?

"It is not possible for ANY screen alone to cause ANY particular contrast ratio."

I've seen contrast ratio attributed to screens before, although I've not seen the definition of it. I'm guessing it would be sonmething like what the contrast would be in a given level of ambient light assuming the projector itself is not the limiting factor.

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post #9 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 12:32 PM
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Good job, Noah.

Please list these other screens you have seen that also claim a specific "contrast ratio". Were they all from one company? Maybe it's the same people that are trying to sell them too?

If you can't remember, I will understand.
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post #10 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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VUTEC BLACK STAR 60.1 contrast ratio. are you people for real?
There is a whole new world happening out there stop being so narrow minded.
Japan and Europe has being watching HDTV for the past 20 years we still trying to fight for a half dozen commercial loaded channels.
I particularly love Japanese technology and I believe my dealer when he said this is a beautiful screen, but I wont know until I get my. I just posted what I had learned about it.It seems to me every time there is a new product in the market, there is this instant reaction, perhaps is the fact that the product you just purchased yesterday is obsolete today, I always looking for new technology, it excites me,
[This message has been edited by Angeli662 (edited 10-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Angeli662 (edited 10-10-2001).]

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post #11 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 03:39 PM
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Angeli662

You keep repeating that this product is new. Do you actually know when it was first sold? Or is this another "fact" like the thousands of hours of research in your other post.

And where did you find a 60:1 claim for the Vutec screen? Is it on their web site? Brochure? Hmmm - I hope you're not just repeating what some possibly clueless salesperson might have told you. They are not always entirely accurate, you know.

Maybe we're all real and it's just the same old world with the same old laws of math and physics after all.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #12 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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first let me tell you growing corn is old technology second I travel from NY to Indiana to atend CIDIA(if you dont know I undertend) talked to the manufactures for about a good 20 minuts. and also call VUTEC personaly. Please move on with this subject already.
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post #13 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 04:35 PM
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But I thought we were going to "get real". Or at least factual. Now we will never know for sure if you were just BS'n or not.
I have been to Newa Yorka Cidia toohttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anybody seen Noah?

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post #14 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 04:41 PM
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Yes,
Vutec Blackstar contrast ratio 60:1 was there for all the world to see.At CEDIA of course.Except for initial price it has lots of potential(maybe lumenstar is even better but knock a zero off!)
Esp for CRT performance.
The numbers game is not for the wary.Just let me try the product under controlled conditions.No better still have Stacey Spears do it!Then give him the sample.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Regards Ron

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post #15 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 05:14 PM
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No, better still, just ask the salesperson how good it is. Then buy based on that.

I know. Numbers are hardhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

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post #16 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 06:40 PM
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jamoka,

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but you offer nothing but condescension. If you don't have anything useful to say, your silence would be greatly appreciated.

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post #17 of 33 Old 10-10-2001, 10:00 PM
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FYI, in addition to R&D costs there would also be a large amount of money put into tooling to make the screen (i.e. molds, etc.).

That's not to say the price they are charging won't price them out of many markets.

Also, this screen currently has a max. size of 60" (according to Kei Clark, who had seen the product, in another thread) and larger sizes are seamed together like the Vutec Black Star.

Interesting technology, but unfortunately not really practical for most of us.

Regards,

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post #18 of 33 Old 10-11-2001, 02:36 AM
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Noah

Good to see you again. Why won't you post the list of screens with a specific "contrast ratio" you claimed to have earlier? That would be constructive. Again, if you just "can't remember" we will all know what you mean.

But listen. If you two guys want me to continue to act as your preceptor, you have to start trying a little harder. Don't just claim as fact things you HOPE to be true. Some poor newbie might believe your posts and consequently get ripped off on a large AV purchase. If I remained silent, I would have to carry part of that guilt.

Once again, in a simpler format -

Screen = Possibly good, definitely expensive.
People selling screen = Either ignorant, or crooks (or both).

Please be very careful when making a large purchase here.

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post #19 of 33 Old 10-11-2001, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Cedia New York? If I new I wouldn't have gone to Indianapolis.afterall I leave two blocks from JVC center.duhhh...

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post #20 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 03:40 AM
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Not bad Angeli662. And it only took 27 hrs to come up with.

Let's see. Issues still unresolved.

1. Verification of research hours you claimed.

2. Verification this is a "new" screen. (Those pictures have been on the web for over 1 year, BTWhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif)

3.List of other screens with a "contrast ratio". (Noah)

Assignments are already overduehttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #21 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 10:56 AM
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FWIW, it is theoretically fully possible for a screen to produce a contrast ratio (just as Kam noted). However, for this spec to be meaningful, the measurement method has to be specified:
1. Light output and position of signal source
2. Type and strength of incident background light (e.g. diffuse or point source(s) and position(s))
3. Room characteristics
4. Viewing position

For example, a high gain screen will produce a higher contrast ratio under normal circumstances than a matte screen.


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post #22 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 12:25 PM
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Great.

I have a 400 mph Volkswagen Beetle I would like to sell to you. It also gets 200 miles/gallon -USING WATER!

(Think - Very high cliff)

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post #23 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 12:50 PM
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It's also "theoretically fully possible" to get 500:1 contrast on a piece of unpainted 2X4. I have that for sale too. You have to seam them together for a large screen of course.

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post #24 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 12:51 PM
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Bump

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post #25 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 02:25 PM
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jamoka,

a) Sorry, a Beetle will not do 400 mph even in free fall.
b) You are absolutely right, it is possible to get 500:1 contrast ratio on a piece of unpainted 2x4.


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post #26 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 03:27 PM
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"Sorry, a Beetle will not do 400 mph even in free fall"

Sure it will!

I'm using "new technology". Thousands of hours of research to back it up, too. As further proof, I've seen other cars also spec'd to 400 mph in free fall.

Oh wait. I sound like I'm either a. ignorant or b. a crook (or both).

Yikes

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post #27 of 33 Old 10-12-2001, 08:26 PM
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Iceman,

I didn't mean to imply that it would be possible to for a screen to have a contrast ratio. Of course, on further reflection it would be possible to devise some way of measuring contrast ratio vs. a matt white screen and then devise some ingenious way of relating them. However, it would never have an real life applicability because it would be so application/situation specific. Any realistic number one would come up with would not sound like 60:1 or 500:1. A ratio of the difference in ANSI contrast ratios would be the first method that comes to mind, but that is only good as a relative measurement among screens in the exact same conditions. I still favour my "Pulled it out their A$$ Experimental Method." http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Looks like the engineers didn't get a say in the writing of the specs sheet. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Curahee,

Your posts sound a little confrontational, you don't have to take angeli662's statements at face value (nor should you), but there is no reason to be so aggressive. It's not like angeli662 is getting a commission for each screen someone from AVS buys. We're all here to share information and learn from each other. If you are so keen on exposing the questionable qualities of this screen, you could try doing some of your own research. There's a phone number for the vendor right in this thread.

BTW, thousands of man hours in R&D is not as much one might think and certainly realistic for any product. A single person works 1000 hours in 25 weeks, assuming 40 hour work weeks. That's just a little more than 6 months (*edit* of course, I meant a little less than six months depending on which part of the year it is). Consider that there are almost certainly a number of people involved at one point of another and thousands of hours can suddenly be realistic.

Regards,

Kam Fung

[This message has been edited by KFung (edited 10-12-2001).]
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post #28 of 33 Old 10-13-2001, 11:29 AM
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"Consider that there are almost certainly a number of people involved at one point of another and thousands of hours can suddenly be realistic."

Or maybe they did no research at all and bought the idea for a pittance?:) Who knows? Not you. Not Angeli. Not Noah.

My point, for the "slow on the uptake", is -

FALSE AND MISLEADING ADVERTISING IS WRONG! BEWARE!

Defending those that do this, without even an attempt to objectively investigate first is also wrong. Technology can be confusing enough without adding crap like this.

"It's not like angeli662 is getting a commission for each screen someone from AVS buys." Same thing here. Is this a fact? Or is it made up - something you merely assume "might be true"?

Maybe we could just stick to facts from now on and avoid all this. You know, not make up anything at all. What do you say?
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post #29 of 33 Old 10-13-2001, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Or maybe they did no research at all and bought the idea for a pittance? :) Who knows? Not you. Not Angeli. Not Noah.
I like to think there was some research involved at one point, you don't get something for nothing. Whatever company is selling the screen may have bought or licensed the idea from someone, but there are R&D costs to be recovered even if it's paying the monkey with bananas to type on a keyboard hoping to reproduce Hamlet.

Quote:
FALSE AND MISLEADING ADVERTISING IS WRONG! BEWARE!
Well... duh. :)

Quote:
Defending those that do this, without even an attempt to objectively investigate first is also wrong. Technology can be confusing enough without adding crap like this.
If you find the objective investigation of false or misleading advertising so interesting you might consider doing some work yourself instead of trying to get others to do it for you.

Quote:
Some poor newbie might believe your posts and consequently get ripped off on a large AV purchase. If I remained silent, I would have to carry part of that guilt.
Well if you feel that way you should be doubly interested in independently pursuing this.

Quote:
"It's not like angeli662 is getting a commission for each screen someone from AVS buys." Same thing here. Is this a fact? Or is it made up - something you merely assume "might be true"?

Maybe we could just stick to facts from now on and avoid all this. You know, not make up anything at all. What do you say?
There are few to no true facts in the world. Tell you what, if it makes you feel better, I called these people at their 1-800 number and after a long conversation they convinced me that their screen did indeed have a 500:1 contrast ratio. In fact, I can tell you in great detail exactly how they measured this in a repeatable and significant manner. I then independently verified their measurements with a sample I had. Do you believe me? :D I could write you a completely plausible explaination for all their claims which would be a complete fabrication and the only way you could check would be to discover for yourself. So really, how can you completely rely on what anyone else says? Well, you can't.

So, instead of demanding facts from us, you might consider finding some for yourself.

Regards,

Kam Fung
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post #30 of 33 Old 10-13-2001, 06:44 PM
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"I still favour my "Pulled it out their A$$ Experimental Method."

"you don't get something for nothing"

"There are few to no true facts in the world"

"I could write you a completely plausible explaination for all their claims which would be a complete fabrication "


Kinda ridiculous when you see them all together like that, huh?

We all want the magic large screen that lets us watch movies with lights on and windows open, but you have to try to reign in your emotions a little and be more objective if you are pushing something like this on the forum members here. The burden of proof is definitely with the people claiming to have the magic.

If they "Pulled it out their A$$", it's wrong. And you should stop promoting it until proven otherwise.
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