2.35 vs 16x9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 36 Old 10-25-2015, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
2.35 vs 16x9

So I've been researching and more researching on screen formats for my new Sony VPL-HW40ES and have come to the conclusion that I am a bit lost lol. I've read so much conflicting information regarding how it would look etc.

Basically I wanted a 2.35:1 design (I love the cinematic format), I will be watching movies (blu-ray) 90% of the time in a dedicated HT (complete light control). I don't have an anamorphic lens nor would I want to have to purchase one as I'm sure everyone knows are very expensive. I am told that if I set my projector up to fit in the 2.35:1 screen (by zooming) when I watch the movie in the same 2.35:1 format I will still see bars on the top/bottom spilling over to the frame of the screen and maybe the wall from where the projector displays a 16x9 image (light). I am aware that a movie in 16x9 will show bars on the sides, which I am ok with.

My room is 19x14 and the screens are from silver ticket 125 with a Sony VPL-HW40ES
g.j.martin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 10:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,304
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked: 234
I would really consider that $995 lens with that projector and screen. I know it is not cheap but if it is in your budget you will be happy you did especially for someone who enjoys movies. The added brightness and perceived increase in resolution make an A-lens a very nice upgrade.


Without a lens you will get light spillage about 5" above and below the frame of the screen with2.35 movies, A little more for movies2.4 or greater. You will notice it since the black level on that projector is not great. It will definitely be easier to notice on a light colored wall then a dark one. Whether it bothers you is a different question. If your screen is less than 5" from the ceiling you will notice it more if the light reflects off the ceiling onto the screen.
Ellebob is online now  
post #3 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
I would really consider that $995 lens with that projector and screen. I know it is not cheap but if it is in your budget you will be happy you did especially for someone who enjoys movies. The added brightness and perceived increase in resolution make an A-lens a very nice upgrade.


Without a lens you will get light spillage about 5" above and below the frame of the screen with2.35 movies, A little more for movies2.4 or greater. You will notice it since the black level on that projector is not great. It will definitely be easier to notice on a light colored wall then a dark one. Whether it bothers you is a different question. If your screen is less than 5" from the ceiling you will notice it more if the light reflects off the ceiling onto the screen.
Is that 995 lens good? or just a cheap alternative to the better lenses out there? I just don't want to get a lens to fulfill a function but it degrading PQ
g.j.martin is offline  
post #4 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 11:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
ch1sox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked: 75
What is your actual question? You never asked anything specifically.
ch1sox is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Sorry a bit vague, just been dealign with this for a while now. I am concerned how the image will look coming from the projector to the 2.35:1 ST white matte screen. Will I see a spill over of light black bars on the black velvet borders of the screen? or on my walls (the walls are painted in Behr Dead flat "cracked pepper" -- they are very dark gray. I tested the projector the other day in there and really couldn't see much other than the image. Also is the zooming going to affect PQ significantly to fit in the 2.35 screen?
g.j.martin is offline  
post #6 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 12:59 PM
Home Theater Lover!
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 8,198
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1661 Post(s)
Liked: 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.j.martin View Post
Sorry a bit vague, just been dealign with this for a while now. I am concerned how the image will look coming from the projector to the 2.35:1 ST white matte screen. Will I see a spill over of light black bars on the black velvet borders of the screen? or on my walls (the walls are painted in Behr Dead flat "cracked pepper" -- they are very dark gray. I tested the projector the other day in there and really couldn't see much other than the image. Also is the zooming going to affect PQ significantly to fit in the 2.35 screen?

I've been zooming for years. The picture will be fine as long as you don't go too big. It's much easier to use a 2.35:1 screen without an anamorphic lens if your projector has power zoom and ( to lesser degree ) power focus. Just FYI.
DavidHir likes this.

AV Science, Inc. Direct (585) 671-2972 craig@avscience.com www.avscience.com

Home theater equipment sales and advice. Call to see the JVC RS600 in Northern California

My theater pics - http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2386514
Craig Peer is online now  
post #7 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 01:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,304
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked: 234
That lens is good and really nice for the price. It isn't shipping yet but it is the same as their Cinevista with a different case. There is a special now that you get the mount that goes with your projector. The main difference between this and the more expensive lenses is this lens doesn't have an optical correction for chromatic aberration which happens with lenses and it separates the colors slightly. Adding optical correction lenses or coatings add to the cost of the lens. However, with certain projectors that have a convergence/ pixel alignment feature you can correct for it within the projector. Your projector has that feature and that it is why a more expensive lens is really not needed.

Whenever you add optics to the system you are technically degrading picture quality, just like adding a Darbee technically degrades the picture. However, when using an A-lens you are using all the pixels in the projector. Your projector also has the processing modes to stretch the picture vertically to get rid of the black bars and then the lens stretches it horizontally to make the aspect ratio correct. By using all the pixels and not having black bars you get a good increase in brightness. Also, by scaling the image vertically to get rid of the black bars you get a perceived resolution increase. You can't actually add any resolution to the source but just like up scaling perceptually it can improve the image. The combination of the perceived resolution and brightness increase gives a better picture.


For movie lovers like yourself (and me) the A-lens with a 2.35 screen is very nice indeed. We have some customers that use this lens and instead of having black bars on the sides watch regular 16:9 material stretched to 2.35 because they like the overall envelopment they get with the wider screen. If your budget allows I would really consider getting an A-lens especially since you are a movie lover.
Cla55clown likes this.
Ellebob is online now  
post #8 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Thank you for the reply. So if I get this lens, I can technically setup my projector with the lens in the 2.35 format and pretty much not need to touch it again even when watching 16x9 content (apart from it stretching it some), no need to zoom in/out etc. My next question is do these lenses cast a dim on the image? if so how would that translate to 3D watching? I don't watch many 3D unless they are actually filmed, but occasionally the little one likes to watch some Disney flicks in 3D.
g.j.martin is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 10-26-2015, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,304
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked: 234
If you use this lens you would not need to zoom the projector. You can watch 16:9 material stretched or you can hit the aspect button on your remote and set it to 'squeeze'. It will display the black bars on the side and shrink the image to 16:9. You lose a little resolution when you use 'squeeze' with 16:9 material but the aspect is correct with the black bars on the side and it still looks pretty good. Most of our customers just watch 16:9 stretched to 2.35 but if you want the original aspect your projector can do it. It is personal preference.

When watching 2.35 material you will select 'V-stretch' with aspect button. The picture will be stretched vertically and with the lens its aspect ratio will be correct and fill the 2.35 screen. With the aspect modes on this projector, the pixel alignment feature and not having to move the lens makes this a nice relatively inexpensive option for movie lovers and 2.35 screens. The lens adds brightness for 2.35 movies compared to zooming, so it is nicer for 3D 2.35 movies. If the movie is on 16:9 them you would technically lose some brightness but you are also viewing a larger screen. For instance a 100" 16:9 picture gets stretched to a 125" 2.35:1 with a lens. I wouldn't worry about it as your projector has enough lumens to light up the screen you are considering very well, unless you plan to watch with a fair amount off ambient light.
Ellebob is online now  
post #10 of 36 Old 10-28-2015, 11:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 21,169
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 629 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Some of us split the difference with a screen AR of 2 to 2.1.
Craig Peer likes this.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #11 of 36 Old 11-01-2015, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Forget it... I setup my Silver Ticket 2.35:1 125" and while it looks great I can't deal with the constant manual zooming, vertical/horizontal shifting you need to when anything other than 2.35 comes on. Most of my movies are 2.35/2.40 but I just got Jurassic World and its in 2.00, getting Inside out Tuesday and thats 1.85, couple of others I was interested in watching in the coming days. It's just too much of a hassle.

I figure if I go with the 135" 16x9 from ST it will be pretty much be the same size when I do watch something in 2.35 as my current 125". The A-Lens option isn't really an "option".
g.j.martin is offline  
post #12 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 06:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,304
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked: 234
If you are not going to use a lens or projector with zoom memory why not just get a large 16:9 screen for the width you would like? I understand going with a slightly larger screen for 2.0 movies but 1.85 is too close to 16:9 to do that. Plus with a 2.0 screen is going to give you black bars all around with 2.35/2.4, you could use a processor to do the scaling but at that price point you would be better going with a lens or a better projector.

Last edited by Ellebob; 11-02-2015 at 06:17 AM.
Ellebob is online now  
post #13 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 06:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.j.martin View Post
I figure if I go with the 135" 16x9 from ST it will be pretty much be the same size when I do watch something in 2.35 as my current 125". The A-Lens option isn't really an "option".
You will need to decide if you can "live with" the top and bottom black bars, when using the 16x9 screen for scope movies.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #14 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
If you are not going to use a lens or projector with zoom memory why not just get a large 16:9 screen for the width you would like? I understand going with a slightly larger screen for 2.0 movies but 1.85 is too close to 16:9 to do that. Plus with a 2.0 screen is going to give you black bars all around with 2.35/2.4, you could use a processor to do the scaling but at that price point you would be better going with a lens or a better projector.
Wait.. I'm confused and excuse my ignorance on the matter.. If I get the 135" 16x9 screen when watching a 16x9 movie it will fill the entire screen correct? If I watch a 2.35/2.40+ movie I will have black bars on the top and bottom which I am aware of and ok with as I tested this and with the dark walls you really lose track of anything other than the image. What confuses me is when you say that I will get bars on all four sides (top;bottom;sides)?
g.j.martin is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You will need to decide if you can "live with" the top and bottom black bars, when using the 16x9 screen for scope movies.
Thanks Dominic, yeah I think I can live with them, I underestimated how many 1.85 etc. movies there are... Jurassic World just showed me a 2.00 which I had also had to adjust. What I need to figure out now is that I measured my screen height to the 125" 2.35 to fit my centre channel w/ stand the 135 will obviously be taller.
g.j.martin is offline  
post #16 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 08:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,304
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked: 234
No you are not confused, and going with a larger 16:9 screen and just dealing with the black bars for non 16:9 material is what I meant. I misread your post and thought you were going with a larger wide screen, I missed the 16:9 part.
Ellebob is online now  
post #17 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.j.martin View Post
If I watch a 2.35/2.40+ movie I will have black bars on the top and bottom which I am aware of and ok with as I tested this and with the dark walls you really lose track of anything other than the image.
When you watch a 2.4 movie on a 2.4 screen, the black bars will fall on the dark wall and are essentially invisible. When you watch that on a 16x9 screen, the black bars will fall on the white screen, which is much more noticeable.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-02-2015 at 05:35 PM.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #18 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
g.j.martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
When you watch a 2.4 movie on a 2.4 screen, the black bars will fall one the dark wall and are essentially invisible. When you watch that on a 16x9 screen, the black bars will fall on the white screen, which is much more noticeable.
So is it more beneficial to go with a gray screen? My room is completely dark.
g.j.martin is offline  
post #19 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rekbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somers, CT
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 113
In a fully light controlled dark painted room white is always preferred. As far as the black bars a 40es is still going to show the bars on a white screen. I have heard even a JVC is not perfectly black displaying the bars. In my opinion masking (power masking if you can afford it) is the perfect solution. The white part of the screen will show up just from reflective light unless the whole room is covered in black velvet.

"Smart enough to know better, to old to care" ------ Dedicated Home Theater, Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector, 110" 16:9 Jamestown screen with variable power masking for CIW 2.50:1 to 16:9, Denon 1912 AVR, 7.1 with Ohm mains, Custom Built HTPC, 10TB NAS
rekbones is online now  
post #20 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 05:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.j.martin View Post
So is it more beneficial to go with a gray screen? My room is completely dark.
[EDIT]IMHO, grey screen won't help much with reflected light. Since you already have the projector and presumably a screen, it's best to try it out and see whether you find the borders distracting.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-29-2015 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Incorrect statement
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #21 of 36 Old 11-02-2015, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
The white part of the screen will show up just from reflective light unless the whole room is covered in black velvet.
With a 2.40:1 screen, the grey side bars are from the reflected light since they are outside the projected image area. With a 16x9 screen, the top and bottom bars will be from both the reflected light and the lack of true black from the projector.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #22 of 36 Old 11-06-2015, 04:28 AM
Senior Member
 
olinda cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: maui
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 29
How about a curve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.j.martin View Post
So I've been researching and more researching on screen formats for my new Sony VPL-HW40ES and have come to the conclusion that I am a bit lost lol. I've read so much conflicting information regarding how it would look etc.

Basically I wanted a 2.35:1 design (I love the cinematic format), I will be watching movies (blu-ray) 90% of the time in a dedicated HT (complete light control). I don't have an anamorphic lens nor would I want to have to purchase one as I'm sure everyone knows are very expensive. I am told that if I set my projector up to fit in the 2.35:1 screen (by zooming) when I watch the movie in the same 2.35:1 format I will still see bars on the top/bottom spilling over to the frame of the screen and maybe the wall from where the projector displays a 16x9 image (light). I am aware that a movie in 16x9 will show bars on the sides, which I am ok with.

My room is 19x14 and the screens are from silver ticket 125 with a Sony VPL-HW40ES
  1. If you are going 90% movies you might consider going with a 1.85 ratio screen.Please check your existing movie library where you will find all most all of your movies will be either 2.40/2.35 or 1.85 ratio.If you play with the math,compare the image sizes of the actual stuff that you intend to watch.On my set up 1.85 and 1.78 (16X9) fill the entire screen with out adjustment.The 1.78 movies are within the black screen frame and the 2.40/2.35 movies are full width with black bars above and below the projected image.I find that I buy a lot of the TV series like Boardwalk empire,The Wire,Sopranos,Walking Dead,Game of thrones,Breaking Bad and many more.These all are full screen without any adjustment!
  2. I am replacing my aging Pioneer/JVC RS-2 with the Power buy JVC 500 and had to rethink my screen size one more time as my current screen is a Carada brilliant white 1.85 x104"Dia. so in talking to David Giles again the 2.35 screen was once again beat out by the 1.85 ratio,120"standard gain screen,I am going to make up some black velvet attachments for the top and bottom of the screen that will be attached for wide screen 2.35/2.40 movies as many of the gang have suggested.Your mileage may very!
  3. Aloha,JB
olinda cat is offline  
post #23 of 36 Old 11-06-2015, 08:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,859
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
In a fully light controlled dark painted room white is always preferred.

I have always had totally light controlled rooms and always had very dark walls and black ceilings and over all what many would regard as at least very good in the light control mode. I have also always had medium to dark neutral gray screen depending on projector and screen size. Based around the most good color lumens I could muster leaving room for upward adjustment as the lamp aged. When I could, based on screen size or brighter projectors I tried to at least start out in eco modes to prolong lamp life. My point is I find benefits in gray screens even when there is control of ambient light. Just one of the advantages is self-masking of gray bars.


Bud

bud16415 is online now  
post #24 of 36 Old 11-28-2015, 02:40 PM
Member
 
razevents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20
2.35 vs 16x9

What are the thoughts on using the Elite Vmax DUAL motorized screen? I'm currently debating how to go with this same issue, and I found the DUAL. Two separate screens are in the case, one 16x9 and one 2.35. The tensioned version centers the 2.35 in theory over where the 1.78 image screen would be, for those without power zoom, so your black bars are gone and you have your 2.35 image masked no zoom movement. In this configuration I would go with the size of the screen based on the size of the 2.35 material. Then your 1.78 will be just taller. The tensioned version however is a different config made for those with zoom. The 2.35 image is larger for zooming to the screen size and the 1.78 is same height but narrower. So you would set up your projector with two power lens configuration memories and use your remote and its macros to trigger the right screen size to the image based on the macro buttons. One button for 2.35 movies and one for 1.78 (1.85 or 2.0 rare cases) movies or HDTV. Without investing in the anamorphic lens this to me is the best option with the zoom memory projector or even without.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
razevents is offline  
post #25 of 36 Old 11-28-2015, 02:47 PM
Member
 
razevents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1448747204.955847.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	95.6 KB
ID:	1084834
Tensioned for power Zoom Projectors


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
razevents is offline  
post #26 of 36 Old 11-28-2015, 02:48 PM
Member
 
razevents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1448747263.610606.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	133.7 KB
ID:	1084850
Non Tensioned for Non Power Zoom Models


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
razevents is offline  
post #27 of 36 Old 11-29-2015, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I have always had totally light controlled rooms and always had very dark walls and black ceilings and over all what many would regard as at least very good in the light control mode. I have also always had medium to dark neutral gray screen <snip>Just one of the advantages is self-masking of gray bars.
This is something I don't quite see (pun intended). When using a dark grey screen, the projector needs to output more light to get the same ft-L. In doing so, it will also raise the brightness of the grey bars. In a totally light controlled room, i.e., one with negligible "external" ambient light and reflected light from walls a ceiling, the "greyness" of the grey bars is determined by the contrast ratio of the projector, independent of the gain of the screen.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-29-2015 at 05:14 PM.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #28 of 36 Old 11-30-2015, 05:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,859
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
This is something I don't quite see (pun intended). When using a dark grey screen, the projector needs to output more light to get the same ft-L. In doing so, it will also raise the brightness of the grey bars. In a totally light controlled room, i.e., one with negligible "external" ambient light and reflected light from walls a ceiling, the "greyness" of the grey bars is determined by the contrast ratio of the projector, independent of the gain of the screen.
I know exactly what you are saying and I have often asked myself the same question. I don’t know if it is some kind of perception issue or not but the darker I have went with a total screen wall the less noticeable the gray bars become. Next time I fire up the projector I will have try and figure out why it seems that way.

I do think it is in part perception because I do some masking away from the screen and of course it produces a fuzzy edge. I keep the fuzzy edge just outside of the image cut in by the projector. In doing this you would think I would have a fuzzy gray edge around my image but the ANSI contrast perception removes it totally in my vision and the result looks to be a masking at the screen. On a larger scale I have the dark wall all around the image and with that nark reference then a gray bar then the image there is a similar ANSI contrast situation going on. Not sure.


Bud

bud16415 is online now  
post #29 of 36 Old 11-30-2015, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I know exactly what you are saying and I have often asked myself the same question. I don’t know if it is some kind of perception issue or not but the darker I have went with a total screen wall the less noticeable the gray bars become.
Maybe some of the greyness is due the reflections, in spite of the dark walls. Reflections off the audiences' face, clothing etc?
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #30 of 36 Old 12-01-2015, 05:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,859
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Maybe some of the greyness is due the reflections, in spite of the dark walls. Reflections off the audiences' face, clothing etc?
You are always going to get reflections. My ceiling is flat black but in a bright image I can see the black ceiling light up. Even black velvet will reflect some light. It’s many times better than white but IMO the extent you would have to go in the search of no reflection would be very extreme. I feel based around real world results in trying to maintain a light absorbing room some degree of gray would always be welcomed. The other question no one ever asks is do people really enjoy sitting in that dark of a place in order to get the best PQ and loss of the social aspect of being in a room with other people and being able to move around and see to eat black popcorn out of a black popcorn bag.

There is some point when bright CR is not able to be watched just the same is there is a point when dark detail CR can’t be watched. For the price of a quart of gray paint and paint a big piece of cardboard and stick it up and project to it and see what you think. You have to have the available lumens and it depends on the screen size how spread out the lumens will be. It also depends on how the lumens can be adjusted. No one wants a gray screen that will only work for you with a new lamp on the brightest setting. But if you have the lumens to support a gray screen and then as lamp dims of you want to watch 3D or you want to turn on some task lights you have room in the brightness to do that, you might want to experiment.


Bud

bud16415 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Screens
Gear in this thread



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off