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post #1 of 39 Old 06-28-2016, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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High gain AT screens

Throw them at me and help me understand how to avoid hot spotting.

I'm looking for 13' to 17' wide paired to a Sony vw1100es with a throw distance of up to 32'. The further back the pj will be located the lower it will be mounted (closer to center of screen).

Viewing angle can either be four seats wide or three seats wide. I have four wide now with my 13' wide 1.5 gain Stewart perf which I can see the perfs so goal is to not see perfs from my first and second row. I see them clearly from 12.5' and can make them out from second row on occasions around 14-15' when not reclined.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!
Alex
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post #2 of 39 Old 07-04-2016, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
Throw them at me and help me understand how to avoid hot spotting.

I'm looking for 13' to 17' wide paired to a Sony vw1100es with a throw distance of up to 32'. The further back the pj will be located the lower it will be mounted (closer to center of screen).

Viewing angle can either be four seats wide or three seats wide. I have four wide now with my 13' wide 1.5 gain Stewart perf which I can see the perfs so goal is to not see perfs from my first and second row. I see them clearly from 12.5' and can make them out from second row on occasions around 14-15' when not reclined.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!
Alex
I don't know of any AT screens above 1.1 or so. I'm just guessing 1.1 because my SMX AT screen is noticeably brighter than screens that claim 1.0 gain. If you know of one I'm all ears!
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post #3 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I don't know of any AT screens above 1.1 or so. I'm just guessing 1.1 because my SMX AT screen is noticeably brighter than screens that claim 1.0 gain. If you know of one I'm all ears!
There are companies that make perf screens with smaller perfs than Stewart which I have that can produce gain up to 2.8 but I just don't know which ones are available to the general public since some of these companies only sell to cinemas.
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post #4 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
There are companies that make perf screens with smaller perfs than Stewart which I have that can produce gain up to 2.8 but I just don't know which ones are available to the general public since some of these companies only sell to cinemas.
The only 2.8 gain screen I ever knew of was the High Power from Da-Lite, long discontinued. It was not AT. I've never heard of a 2.8 gain AT screen and would be interested in sources. My setup requires AT and a higher gain screen would let me close the iris down and get even better contrast out of my RS500.
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post #5 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
The only 2.8 gain screen I ever knew of was the High Power from Da-Lite, long discontinued. It was not AT. I've never heard of a 2.8 gain AT screen and would be interested in sources. My setup requires AT and a higher gain screen would let me close the iris down and get even better contrast out of my RS500.
RealD makes a couple (2.1-2.2/2.8) with more than double the amount of perfs or at least more than twice as small as the Stewart perfs but they are cinema dealers and very very expensive.
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post #6 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
RealD makes a couple (2.1-2.2/2.8) with more than double the amount of perfs or at least more than twice as small as the Stewart perfs but they are cinema dealers and very very expensive.
Try reading this - http://www.accucalhd.com/wp-content/...een_report.pdf

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post #7 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
RealD makes a couple (2.1-2.2/2.8) with more than double the amount of perfs or at least more than twice as small as the Stewart perfs but they are cinema dealers and very very expensive.
Will you be able to state exactly how expensive those RealD screens are? I never received the quote from Peter.
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post #8 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
What was it that I missed? I read pretty much everything that was relevant to high gain and Stewart but didn't see much that was anything new or that jumped out at me.

I have an all black room (walls, ceiling, carpet, and chairs) and have the 1.5 gain studiotek perf screen that is great from a distance but just not perfect from my front row since I can see the perfs. The perfs are small 300 micron from memory but RealD is 150micron and supposedly smoother and fewer sparkle issues and no cleaning issues. I didn't notice any other manufactures in that doc that offered similar but like I said I could have missed it. My concern with higher gain is PJ mounting from ceiling since I want to keep my shorter throw that's right in the middle as far as brightness/sharpness for my screen size.

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post #9 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Ive also seen this screen for close viewing but yet again it's for cinemas and would most likely be very expensive and hard to acquire.

http://www.harkness-screens.com/proj...erlux-220.html
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post #10 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
What was it that I missed? I read pretty much everything that was relevant to high gain and Stewart but didn't see much that was anything new or that jumped out at me.

I have an all black room (walls, ceiling, carpet, and chairs) and have the 1.5 gain studiotek perf screen that is great from a distance but just not perfect from my front row since I can see the perfs. The perfs are small 300 micron from memory but RealD is 150micron and supposedly smoother and fewer sparkle issues and no cleaning issues. I didn't notice any other manufactures in that doc that offered similar but like I said I could have missed it. My concern with higher gain is PJ mounting from ceiling since I want to keep my shorter throw that's right in the middle as far as brightness/sharpness for my screen size.
I don't know much about the RealD screen myself. I didn't see what the gain is after perf'ing it. I'd be interested to see a sample.

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post #11 of 39 Old 07-05-2016, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know much about the RealD screen myself. I didn't see what the gain is after perf'ing it. I'd be interested to see a sample.
Supposedly just under their rated from what I can tell. It's right at 2 and rated at 2.1-2.2. Yea I'm working on a sample to test the seam issue or non seam issue lol.
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post #12 of 39 Old 07-06-2016, 10:17 AM
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In the weave (not perforated vinyl) category the highest gain tight-weave fabric I'm aware of is the Severtson SAT-4K with "rated" gain of 1.2 which I've visually confirmed to be brighter than the Seymour XD material but with sparkles. You can read more reviews of AT materials in my thread: AT screen for 8.5’ viewing distance: manufactured screen fabrics & spandex
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post #13 of 39 Old 11-04-2016, 11:40 AM
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Very interesting thread. I have Falcon Vision HD and site states that its a 1.1 gain. My room is all covered with black fabric. My screen is 128" 2.40 and projector (RS500) is mounted where I can utilize its max zoom (shortest throw distance). Even then, I have Iris at -2 and would like to have more brightness. My projector is calibrated and currently contrast is set to 8. When I move contrast to 15, I like what I see but then now its crushing the shadows. Obviously, I need more brightness.

So is Falcon HD really 1.1 gain? Is there any other material with higher gain than Falcon HD Vision and without any sparkles?
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post #14 of 39 Old 11-04-2016, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Very interesting thread. I have Falcon Vision HD and site states that its a 1.1 gain. My room is all covered with black fabric. My screen is 128" 2.40 and projector (RS500) is mounted where I can utilize its max zoom (shortest throw distance). Even then, I have Iris at -2 and would like to have more brightness. My projector is calibrated and currently contrast is set to 8. When I move contrast to 15, I like what I see but then now its crushing the shadows. Obviously, I need more brightness.

So is Falcon HD really 1.1 gain? Is there any other material with higher gain than Falcon HD Vision and without any sparkles?
Falcon HD was measured in the Accucal report (http://www.accucalav.com/wp-content/...een_report.pdf) to be right about 1.0 true gain. Up until a few weeks ago, I had a Falcon HD screen but am replacing it for a finer weave due to my close viewing distance.

The brightest AT material (for close viewing distance) I have tested so far is the Severtson SAT-4K which looked a little brighter (by eye) to me than the Falcon HD but I don't have any measurements to back this up; the material does have sparkle to it though (hence the higher gain) so difficult tradeoff. I haven't seen other materials with higher gain than Falcon HD. Of course if you sit far away you can consider something like a Stewart 130 perforated. You can see my qualitative opinions in: AT screen for 8.5’ viewing distance: manufactured screen fabrics & spandex
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post #15 of 39 Old 11-04-2016, 12:13 PM
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I'm new on AVS and therefore can't quote or change yet (need 3 more posts errrrr). I was going to change my post from Falcon HD to Falcon Horizon. I use Falcon Horizon. Can you please share what gain Falcon Horizon has? If Falcon HD is 1.0, I'm very sure Falcon Horizon is less that it.
I didn't see any mention of Stewart 130 on your thread first post. Isn't Stewart 130 very expensive?
Falcon Vision HD material will cost like around 400.00 where as Stewart will be like 4k-5k if not more.
I haven't checked price on Severtson SAT-4K but if its brighter than Falcon Vision HD then it might be a good candidate when viewing from 10.5'?
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post #16 of 39 Old 11-04-2016, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I'm new on AVS and therefore can't quote or change yet (need 3 more posts errrrr). I was going to change my post from Falcon HD to Falcon Horizon. I use Falcon Horizon. Can you please share what gain Falcon Horizon has? If Falcon HD is 1.0, I'm very sure Falcon Horizon is less that it.
I didn't see any mention of Stewart 130 on your thread first post. Isn't Stewart 130 very expensive?
Falcon Vision HD material will cost like around 400.00 where as Stewart will be like 4k-5k if not more.
I haven't checked price on Severtson SAT-4K but if its brighter than Falcon Vision HD then it might be a good candidate when viewing from 10.5'?
I believe Falcon Horizon is around 0.8-0.85 true gain.

Stewart's perforated material was not reviewed in my thread as it is not applicable for 8.5 feet viewing distance as the perforations would be visible, I'm not sure of the distance where they become invisible but I believe its at least 12 feet if not more.

SAT-4K material is around $4-600 AFAIK for usual screen sizes.
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post #17 of 39 Old 11-06-2016, 10:01 AM
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I believe Falcon Horizon is around 0.8-0.85 true gain.

Stewart's perforated material was not reviewed in my thread as it is not applicable for 8.5 feet viewing distance as the perforations would be visible, I'm not sure of the distance where they become invisible but I believe its at least 12 feet if not more.

SAT-4K material is around $4-600 AFAIK for usual screen sizes.
600.00$ is not a bad price if I can get it for my 128" 2.40 screen if it will get me from .80 to 1.1 gain :-) Now just need to find out how to order.
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post #18 of 39 Old 11-17-2016, 08:05 AM
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I believe Falcon Horizon is around 0.8-0.85 true gain.

Stewart's perforated material was not reviewed in my thread as it is not applicable for 8.5 feet viewing distance as the perforations would be visible, I'm not sure of the distance where they become invisible but I believe its at least 12 feet if not more.

SAT-4K material is around $4-600 AFAIK for usual screen sizes.
FYI: I spoke with a rep in Severtson and asked for a SAT 4-K sample and also requested if it can be a bit larger than just a small square. They shipped out the sample to me the next day and it was BIG. It was like 2' long 1' high. I was much easier to see how it looked. I placed right on top of my screen and right away could see that its much brighter. I couldn't see any unpleasing effect. Screen almost disappeared in my case.

Today, just a few minutes ago I placed the order and it will be shipped tomorrow. I"ll let you guys know the update. I think it will be a good upgrade.
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post #19 of 39 Old 11-17-2016, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
600.00$ is not a bad price if I can get it for my 128" 2.40 screen if it will get me from .80 to 1.1 gain :-) Now just need to find out how to order.
Can't you just order the SAT-4K material from AVS? They are a Severtson dealer.
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post #20 of 39 Old 11-17-2016, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
FYI: I spoke with a rep in Severtson and asked for a SAT 4-K sample and also requested if it can be a bit larger than just a small square. They shipped out the sample to me the next day and it was BIG. It was like 2' long 1' high. I was much easier to see how it looked. I placed right on top of my screen and right away could see that its much brighter. I couldn't see any unpleasing effect. Screen almost disappeared in my case.

Today, just a few minutes ago I placed the order and it will be shipped tomorrow. I"ll let you guys know the update. I think it will be a good upgrade.
Looking forward to your review! I also have a sample from them and it a nice material.
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post #21 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 10:46 AM
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SAT 4k AT Matarial mini-review:

I got the material shipped to me last Friday. After setting it up on my screen and viewing for about 8 hours, here is what I think of it.

First, my setup
Screen Size: 2.40 130"
Projector: JVC RS500 with 730 Hours on it
projector Calibration: Was calibrated professionally when it had 120 Hours.
Room: Dedicated HT with all walls/ceiling/floor covered with black velvet.
Viewing Distance: 10.5'
Projector Mount: Minimum distance (utilizing full zoom)
Previous screen material: Falcon Horizon
Pics: Will post later.

Falcon Horizon is supposed to have a 1.0 gain but it seems like it had around .8 gain when my projector was calibrated. Before I changed my screen to SAT 4K, I was watching everything my my projector in Low lamp and Iris fully open. Even then, I was left with wow factor. It was only when I had to put the projector in High mode where I could see the real beauty of what RS500 is capable of. Basically, it was kinda dull image due to lack of brightness.

After I switched to SAT 4k, I could notice the increase in brightness but it wasn't as much as I was expecting. SAT 4K is supposed to have a 1.18 gain and I though that after installing it, it'd be like viewing in High Lamp with Falcon. That wasn't the case. It sure has more brightness but in my case (screen size), it was just about enough brightness with Iris set to 0 in Low mode for 2.40. Viewing any 16:9 movie is simply jaw dropping. I had to in fact move Iris to -4. Keeping it at 0 was a little too bright. Last night I was watching "Black Sails" and it looked amazing. There was really nothing more I wanted. It even got me thinking what one would get with HDR cause the brightness was just spot on. A calibrated projector with right amount of brightness is just breath taking. It completely had the look through the window effect. I didn't get that with Falcon because I was missing the brightness and never bothered putting my projector to High. When viewing movie in 2.40, I had to move IRIS all the way to 0. Then there are moments where I go like OH wowww and then sometimes, hmmm if it could be a little brighter. So I'm still struggling with 2.40 a bit. Watching Oblivion, all the scenes where Tom Cruise is flying outside or when he's laying on the grass looks amazing. The only scene where I felt like it could use more light was when he was talking to Wikki in candle light and the scene in swimming pool. I thought if the lights could look a bit brighter. May be the scene itself doesn't have too much lighting there. Reflections of light on their faces looked great though. Prometheus looked Amazing all around. So may be its the specific movie scenes that got me confused and brightness is good enough

From my viewing distance of 10.5, I didn't find any artifacts with material. As for sound, I calibrate with Dirac and check with REW. I didn't find any difference there either. My room is a 7.2.4 configuration and sounds great and after the screen replacement, it still does . So no issues with screen as compared to Falcon.

Final Verdict: For me to move on to SAT 4K is a step towards right direction. It is brighter. Falcon is a great material as well but just missing the brightness as compared to SAT 4K.

Update: Just spoke with the sales person in Severtson and asked if he's ok with sharing his info. He is fine with that. If you guys want to place an order or ask for a sample, he's a great fellow to work with. His contact Info

Name: Aaron White
Contact: 480-610-5155 Ext: 108

Last edited by harrisu; 11-29-2016 at 04:00 PM.
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post #22 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 12:10 PM
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SeymourAV's XD AT screen has a gain of 1.2

Last edited by cbromley; 11-29-2016 at 02:10 PM.
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post #23 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
SAT 4k AT Matarial mini-review:
...
Falcon Horizon is supposed to have a 1.0 gain but it seems like it had around .8 gain when my projector was calibrated. Before I changed my screen to SAT 4K, I was watching everything my my projector in Low lamp and Iris fully open. Even then, I was left with wow factor. It was only when I had to put the projector in High mode where I could see the real beauty of what RS500 is capable of. Basically, it was kinda dull image due to lack of brightness.
...
After I switched to SAT 4k, I could notice the increase in brightness but it wasn't as much as I was expecting. SAT 4K is supposed to have a 1.18 gain and I though that after installing it, it'd be like viewing in High Lamp with Falcon.
...
From my viewing distance of 10.5, I didn't find any artifacts with material. As for sound, I calibrate with Dirac and check with REW. I didn't find any difference there either. My room is a 7.2.4 configuration and sounds great and after the screen replacement, it still does . So no issues with screen as compared to Falcon.

Final Verdict: For me to move on to SAT 4K is a step towards right direction. It is brighter. Falcon is a great material as well but just missing the brightness as compared to SAT 4K.
Thanks for your review. If you really want to torture test the screen, I suggest you watch the movie Art of Flight which is non-stop snowboarding -- screen texture, sparkles, etc. are most evident in this kind of content. For bonus points, repeat your test but move your chair up to 8.5' viewing distance (my viewing distance) and let me know if you begin to notice any new artifacts.
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post #24 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbromley View Post
SeymourAV's XD AT screen has a gain of 1.2
That's not the XD material's true gain. Per the Accucal report they measured around 0.94 gain: http://www.accucalav.com/wp-content/...een_report.pdf
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post #25 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 04:06 PM
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SeymourAV's XD AT screen has a gain of 1.2
I don't know about the gain but I have used it before. In fact, it was my first AT screen material. I used it with my Sony VW600 projector and eventually upgraded to Falcon Horizon because I could see the weave. Specially, when there was any bright screen, I could clearly see the weave. At that time, my viewing distance was over 12'. When I switched to Falcon, I reduced my viewing distance to 10.5' and still couldn't see any screen material. Same with SAT 4K. Don't see any issue with my viewing distance with RS500 in LOW IRIS wide open.
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post #26 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 04:10 PM
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Thanks for your review. If you really want to torture test the screen, I suggest you watch the movie Art of Flight which is non-stop snowboarding -- screen texture, sparkles, etc. are most evident in this kind of content. For bonus points, repeat your test but move your chair up to 8.5' viewing distance (my viewing distance) and let me know if you begin to notice any new artifacts.
You got it buddy. I don't have the whole movie but I do have a clip of 5 minutes from Bass Demo Disc from AVS. That should make it obvious. I watched 3 episodes of Black Sails and they had many scenes outdoor with bright sun and didn't have any issue. But I get it. Snow is white and can potentially make it more obvious.

Hopefully today when I get home, I'll play the clip and sit 8.5' away to see if I notice anything.

BTW, they also have Microperf option where they can go as much as 2.0 gain. Requirement for microperf though is to have 6-8" distance from speaker to screen and 6' of viewing distance. It is definitely tempting. Have you tried any microperf?
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post #27 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 04:16 PM
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FYI: I spoke with a rep in Severtson and asked for a SAT 4-K sample and also requested if it can be a bit larger than just a small square. They shipped out the sample to me the next day and it was BIG. It was like 2' long 1' high. I was much easier to see how it looked. I placed right on top of my screen and right away could see that its much brighter. I couldn't see any unpleasing effect. Screen almost disappeared in my case.

Today, just a few minutes ago I placed the order and it will be shipped tomorrow. I"ll let you guys know the update. I think it will be a good upgrade.
I wonder if they will put this in a ceiling electric screen?
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post #28 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
You got it buddy. I don't have the whole movie but I do have a clip of 5 minutes from Bass Demo Disc from AVS. That should make it obvious. I watched 3 episodes of Black Sails and they had many scenes outdoor with bright sun and didn't have any issue. But I get it. Snow is white and can potentially make it more obvious.

Hopefully today when I get home, I'll play the clip and sit 8.5' away to see if I notice anything.

BTW, they also have Microperf option where they can go as much as 2.0 gain. Requirement for microperf though is to have 6-8" distance from speaker to screen and 6' of viewing distance. It is definitely tempting. Have you tried any microperf?
Thanks.

My speakers are in-wall and the screen material will only be about 2" from the speakers -- I can't move it out any further due to the location of the entrance to the theater room so microperf is out for that reason alone. Plus I've generally heard you need to sit much further than 6' from microperf for it not to be noticeable (like 12'+ feet) -- maybe Severtson's is "nano-perf"
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post #29 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I wonder if they will put this in a ceiling electric screen?
Best is to call them. They might have this option. I posted info in my previous post.
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post #30 of 39 Old 11-29-2016, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
Thanks.

My speakers are in-wall and the screen material will only be about 2" from the speakers -- I can't move it out any further due to the location of the entrance to the theater room so microperf is out for that reason alone. Plus I've generally heard you need to sit much further than 6' from microperf for it not to be noticeable (like 12'+ feet) -- maybe Severtson's is "nano-perf"
Haha... It is micro-perf :-(
http://severtsonscreens.com/material/CWMP/27

They can change the gain on the material from 1.0-2.0.
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