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post #1 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Will VR devices kill the HT, Projector, Movie Theaters.

It is only my guess that VR sales will put a dent in projector sells. There are probably tons of people that would prefer watching a movie while getting the big screen immersive feeling from a VR device strapped to their face versus having to go to the family HT room to fire up the projector.

These are my initial thought below.

Problems:
1. I am not sure if the signal can be split out to different people in the same room so everyone can watch together.
2. Even though you are watching together you don't see each other in the same room because you're all wearing a VR on your face. This takes away something if you ask me.
3. Imagine a family full of people wearing these in the same room with the lights on full brightness.

The good:
1. That same room can be any room in the house so no need for a an expensive HT. How often does everyone in the same family gather for movie time anymore anyway? With me its my kid and me while my wife prefers doing other stuff.
2. I believe the experience is far more immersive than any movie theater and any HT.
3. Indivual color, brightness, volume controls. Or turn off the volume in each VR device and play sound through regular speakers.

I can see this catching on in just 2 to 5 years and changing the entire landscape that we know today.

This could easily change movie theaters also.


This is only my opinion.
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post #2 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 02:04 PM
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People complain that 3D is not worth it because they have to wear 3D glasses the size and weight of sun glasses, can you see the complaints from large VR gear that blocks all outside perception. My theater is a bat cave and I need to wait for a bright scene to see what I am eating or to grab my drink. VR may have its nitch but will never replace true home theater. Its hard to convince people to create a true bat cave theater because they want to see more of their surroundings not less.

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post #3 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 02:15 PM
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I agree with those above, VR will absolutely not kill home theater.

Now, augmented reality, something along the lines of Microsoft Hololens, that may be another story. Allowing for communal viewing, awareness of surrounding, and so on. I still don't see that overtaking the home theater completely. But only time will tell.
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 03:06 PM
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I agree...wearing a bunch of head gear just to watch a movie alone won't be a top priority.. even for VR owners. Yes they may do it occasionally, but I still think the go too way of watching a movie will always be sitting down with some family/friends. Watching a movie alone is almost like going out to eat alone...we all have done it, but it's not a prefered choice. Also currently VR is expensive & even when it comes down in price...I still don't see many homes having multiple VR units that would require a VR PC to go with each VR unit. Im sure you could tether multiple VR units to one blu-Ray player but I seriously doubt anyone would buy a VR headset just to watch movies. This leads me to believe that each VR unit would also be paired with its own VR compatible PC as well.

If anything will replace the home theater ..it will be cheaper larger TV's. The day you can go get a 100" TV for less then $3k...thats when the projector market may be in trouble, but it will never die completely out. I just don't see TVS getting larger then 150-200" any time soon.. especially for an affordable price unless some amazing large display technology comes along that nobody knows about. As TV's progress...so does projection technology. The advent of UST projectors has eliminated many of the drawbacks of two piece projection & the largest drawback is projector placement. With an UST projector...you simply place the projector on an entertainment center (much like a TV) & from only a few inches away you can project a 100-120" image directly on the wall or a screen. Now you just need a soundbar or a surround sound & you got a everything you need. Now the only draw back about any two piece projection is ambient light but I'm sure someone may have a solution for that too .

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post #5 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 04:08 PM
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I'm not even remotely interested in VR devices. I'll stick with home theater, thanks.
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post #6 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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People complain that 3D is not worth it because they have to wear 3D glasses the size and weight of sun glasses, can you see the complaints from large VR gear that blocks all outside perception. My theater is a bat cave and I need to wait for a bright scene to see what I am eating or to grab my drink. VR may have its nitch but will never replace true home theater. Its hard to convince people to create a true bat cave theater because they want to see more of their surroundings not less.
I think you guys are wrong however we have to wait and see. We won't need to wait long though. This coming fall will see the PS4 VR and the Xbox VR

I personally beleive the HT will go the way of the phone booth.

I have seen a movie on the HTC Vibe. It was far more (that's right far more) incredible than any movie theater screen I have ever seen.

If you think the VR to movies is what 3D glasses were to movies then it's because you just have not seen what it can do yet and you are likely just hoping VR is not a game changer.

There will always be people that prefer a HT however my belief is they will not be getting the ultimate movie experience.
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post #7 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post
I think you guys are wrong however we have to wait and see. We won't need to wait long though. This coming fall will see the PS4 VR and the Xbox VR

I personally beleive the HT will go the way of the phone booth.

I have seen a movie on the HTC Vibe. It was far more (that's right far more) incredible than any movie theater screen I have ever seen.

If you think the VR to movies is what 3D glasses were to movies then it's because you just have not seen what it can do yet and you are likely just hoping VR is not a game changer.

There will always be people that prefer a HT however my belief is they will not be getting the ultimate movie experience.
I truly hope that VR catches on as it becomes common place in personal technology. I also think their will be many uses for VR in the future from gaming, flight simulation, social broadcasting, medical examination & procedural demonstrations, augmented reality, & a simple transportive trip to anywhere. Their are many applications for VR for an individual but movie watching is typically a social event. Maybe VR will change that some due to how incredible the experience is but I still don't think it will be a widely adopted movie watching format. Even people that have the Occlus Rift & the HTC Vive are beginning to loose interest. Yes it's amazing at first but many reviews say that after that wears off...it simply starts becoming a chore to use.

When I was younger I had a pair of Olympus Eye-treks that were about as cutting edge as you could get in the HMD world. Even today.. they would be revolutionary if it had a high resolution display. It was compact & almost as light as a pair of glasses. At first It was great for long flights & I would even watch most of my media on them as well but as time moved on ...I just quit putting them on. It was just easier to watch the TV instead of what felt like suiting up & these were much smaller then the Oculus or the HTC Vive.

Even though it was immersive it was equally as disconnective. I felt shut off from the person next to me & every time they needed my attention I had to completely take everything off. The point I'm trying to make is...VR may be incredible technology but no matter how awesome it is.. people simply grow tired of being too immersed & disconnected.
I promise you that if you get an HTC Vive for movie watching you will find yourself using it less & less. Like I said...it will have it uses but it won't take over the age old tradition of sitting down & watching a movie with people you love along with enjoying a big tub of popcorn you can see.

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post #8 of 33 Old 07-26-2016, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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We will see very soon. Soon as in a few short years.

The HTC Vibe #3 , I suspect, will be only half the size of the current model.

I pointed out first that movie watching can a social event. If that is what is hindering VR from replacing HT then someone will solve that problem by having the sides of the VR headset be transparent. That solves that. I already mentioned turning off the headset sound and using the home speakers.

I would bet most TV and movies are watched alone. As I type I am watching the news alone. My last 5 redbox movies on my projector have been watched alone, with my wife in the room on her computer. I could have used VR.

People do things different now than they did before.

This pace of change will only accelerate and the way we do movie immersion will switch from HT to VR.
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post #9 of 33 Old 07-27-2016, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
If anything will replace the home theater ..it will be cheaper larger TV's. The day you can go get a 100" TV for less then $3k...thats when the projector market may be in trouble, but it will never die completely out. .
I would not choose a 100" TV over a projector. I would though for a 2.35 TV that is 140 diagonal.

A lot of members here though may jump for a 100" TV instead of a projector. For instance, some members that have small 120" screens however they sit way, way back lets say 16'. These folks would have the same immersion using a current 80" TV and just sit a little closer say 10'.

For me its big or bust.

IMO, VR will threaten TV's and Projectors. We will know soon enough though.
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post #10 of 33 Old 07-31-2016, 06:16 PM
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nope. That's it nothing else just nope nope
And nope. That's really funny made me actually laugh out loud. Thxs for that one. Whew!
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post #11 of 33 Old 08-03-2016, 10:20 PM
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Good question, I wondered the same.

I've had an Oculus Rift CV1 for a while, which is arguably the best VR solution for watching movies due to its low weight and non-fatiguing screen. And I have to admit, it is pretty amazing in that you can watch movies in a virtual theater and it really feels like you are sitting in an AMC multiplex. Not sure how that works, but my brain was fooled into thinking I was in a giant theater watching a movie on a massive screen.

The 360 degree VR movies are also quite cool.


But there are a few problems

1. Even with the most comfortable solution, after a few hours VR can start to get a bit fatiguing. Something is still strapped to your face and a couple of inches from your eyes.
2. Image quality for 2D movies is good but not great (I'd compare it to a really well encoded DVD), certainly not up to the standards that many expect here. But, that I am sure will improve in time.
3. Image quality for 360 degree VR movies is quite poor right now, what I would equate to VHS quality. But the ability to look in all directions definitely does make up for that.

But most obviously, the biggest problem is:
4. If you want to watch a movie with friend(s), everyone in the room needs to don a headset. And, I am sure that would be neat as virtual avatars could interact once that happens but in the end it seems like too much hassle - when movie watching is really about sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying the show.


So my answer is, NO, I do not think VR will take away from projector sales. It's going to be too expensive for a long time and even when affordable the basic ability to watch a movie with a friend is very difficult.

On the plus side, you could watch a movie with a friend in another state, but that is a niche use case.
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post #12 of 33 Old 08-03-2016, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Good question, I wondered the same.

I've had an Oculus Rift CV1 for a while, which is arguably the best VR solution for watching movies due to its low weight and non-fatiguing screen. And I have to admit, it is pretty amazing in that you can watch movies in a virtual theater and it really feels like you are sitting in an AMC multiplex. Not sure how that works, but my brain was fooled into thinking I was in a giant theater watching a movie on a massive screen.

The 360 degree VR movies are also quite cool.


But there are a few problems

1. Even with the most comfortable solution, after a few hours VR can start to get a bit fatiguing. Something is still strapped to your face and a couple of inches from your eyes.
2. Image quality for 2D movies is good but not great (I'd compare it to a really well encoded DVD), certainly not up to the standards that many expect here. But, that I am sure will improve in time.
3. Image quality for 360 degree VR movies is quite poor right now, what I would equate to VHS quality. But the ability to look in all directions definitely does make up for that.

But most obviously, the biggest problem is:
4. If you want to watch a movie with friend(s), everyone in the room needs to don a headset. And, I am sure that would be neat as virtual avatars could interact once that happens but in the end it seems like too much hassle - when movie watching is really about sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying the show.


So my answer is, NO, I do not think VR will take away from projector sales. It's going to be too expensive for a long time and even when affordable the basic ability to watch a movie with a friend is very difficult.

On the plus side, you could watch a movie with a friend in another state, but that is a niche use case.

The points you just brought up makes me even more certain that, in time, it will drastically impact projector sales.

It will not happen right away though but within 5 years. This means I will purchase my next projector in 12 or so months and I expect it will still be desirable by me for 5 or so years. This means in 2022 when I am in the market for an HT I will likely have an easy decision to by a VR.

The image quality will likely be comparable to the best projectors in 2022.

VR manufacturers will, recognizing the social aspects of movie watching, create VR headsets that are transparent on the sides so people in the room can see each other.

Btw, I am not impressed with the image quality of my Gear VR however I am shocked to hear the Oculus is not much better.

It's common for people to resist technology that disrupts their normal stuff.
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post #13 of 33 Old 08-04-2016, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Good question, I wondered the same.

I've had an Oculus Rift CV1 for a while, which is arguably the best VR solution for watching movies due to its low weight and non-fatiguing screen. And I have to admit, it is pretty amazing in that you can watch movies in a virtual theater and it really feels like you are sitting in an AMC multiplex. Not sure how that works, but my brain was fooled into thinking I was in a giant theater watching a movie on a massive screen.

The 360 degree VR movies are also quite cool.


But there are a few problems

1. Even with the most comfortable solution, after a few hours VR can start to get a bit fatiguing. Something is still strapped to your face and a couple of inches from your eyes.
2. Image quality for 2D movies is good but not great (I'd compare it to a really well encoded DVD), certainly not up to the standards that many expect here. But, that I am sure will improve in time.
3. Image quality for 360 degree VR movies is quite poor right now, what I would equate to VHS quality. But the ability to look in all directions definitely does make up for that.

But most obviously, the biggest problem is:
4. If you want to watch a movie with friend(s), everyone in the room needs to don a headset. And, I am sure that would be neat as virtual avatars could interact once that happens but in the end it seems like too much hassle - when movie watching is really about sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying the show.



So my answer is, NO, I do not think VR will take away from projector sales. It's going to be too expensive for a long time and even when affordable the basic ability to watch a movie with a friend is very difficult.

On the plus side, you could watch a movie with a friend in another state, but that is a niche use case.
It's going to be hard to enjoy a nice bottle of wine with friends while watching a movie with VR headsets on - that's a no go for me right there ! Plus, it's fun to watch the reaction of other movie watchers to certain scenes in movies - can't do that with a headset on everyone's face.
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post #14 of 33 Old 08-04-2016, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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It's going to be hard to enjoy a nice bottle of wine with friends while watching a movie with VR headsets on - that's a no go for me right there ! Plus, it's fun to watch the reaction of other movie watchers to certain scenes in movies - can't do that with a headset on everyone's face.
Agreed Craig.
The OP never mentioned you or he would step out and go VR-FOR-PJ right now.

My prediction Craig is sometime in the next 5 to 8 years you will though. You will go VFP.

You will think about this thread at that time and go, "Wow that guy was a visionary".
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post #15 of 33 Old 08-04-2016, 06:06 PM
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Not any chance at all of a stupid headset replacing my home theater.
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post #16 of 33 Old 08-04-2016, 06:44 PM
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It is only my guess that VR sales will put a dent in projector sells. There are probably tons of people that would prefer watching a movie while getting the big screen immersive feeling from a VR device strapped to their face versus having to go to the family HT room to fire up the projector.

These are my initial thought below.

Problems:
1. I am not sure if the signal can be split out to different people in the same room so everyone can watch together.
2. Even though you are watching together you don't see each other in the same room because you're all wearing a VR on your face. This takes away something if you ask me.
3. Imagine a family full of people wearing these in the same room with the lights on full brightness.

The good:

1. That same room can be any room in the house so no need for a an expensive HT. How often does everyone in the same family gather for movie time anymore anyway? With me its my kid and me while my wife prefers doing other stuff.
2. I believe the experience is far more immersive than any movie theater and any HT.
3. Indivual color, brightness, volume controls. Or turn off the volume in each VR device and play sound through regular speakers.

I can see this catching on in just 2 to 5 years and changing the entire landscape that we know today.

This could easily change movie theaters also.


This is only my opinion.
I see this as a possible attraction for gamers who spend majority of their time alone gaming but for real movie goers, I don't think so. I have a home theater to watch with others and people go to theatres to experience the movie in a public environment and share all that goes with that. These VR devises are personal solitary devices, my guess they will be popular with gammers and other niche markets but not mainstream .

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post #17 of 33 Old 08-04-2016, 07:01 PM
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I have an Oculus and a JVC projector. No chance I am ever watching a movie in VR. The pixel density sucks.

Gaming however, I will do that in Oculus where available.

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post #18 of 33 Old 08-05-2016, 06:45 PM
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I have a gear vr and yes it's a very cool experience. I tried the virtual theater and it was very real but I could not watch a movie on it. Vr is great to take you places you can't go, simulations and first person games. I can't see vr ever catching on for HT.
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post #19 of 33 Old 08-05-2016, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a gear vr and yes it's a very cool experience. I tried the virtual theater and it was very real but I could not watch a movie on it. Vr is great to take you places you can't go, simulations and first person games. I can't see vr ever catching on for HT.
Aieyieyie, I've given up already.

I will copy the following into this thread every once and a while because posters do not understand what this thread is about.

This post by this sculpting fella is one example.

1. The future 2022 Gear VR will threaten PJ's. Everyone already agrees a cheap $85 device lacks image quality.
2.. There is currently no VR headset that will challenge PJ's however in 2022 I predict there will be many VR choices to watch a movie with the family on.
3. There will be a segment that watches movies on a PJ in 2022 however I predict most avsforum members, including the ones that claim now they will not, will go VR.
4. I predict VR image quality will match PJ image quality in 2022.
5. VR headsets will be transparent on the sides allowing people to cozy up and watch movies together.
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post #20 of 33 Old 08-05-2016, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post
Aieyieyie, I've given up already.

I will copy the following into this thread every once and a while because posters do not understand what this thread is about.

This post by this sculpting fella is one example.

1. The future 2022 Gear VR will threaten PJ's. Everyone already agrees a cheap $85 device lacks image quality.
2.. There is currently no VR headset that will challenge PJ's however in 2022 I predict there will be many VR choices to watch a movie with the family on.
3. There will be a segment that watches movies on a PJ in 2022 however I predict most avsforum members, including the ones that claim now they will not, will go VR.
4. I predict VR image quality will match PJ image quality in 2022.
5. VR headsets will be transparent on the sides allowing people to cozy up and watch movies together.
I get what your saying but still don't think that's going to happen. Just the same way 3D is dead. With 3D glasses on people could still cozy up but that didn't stop it from failing. People just didn't want the hassle of putting on the glasses and charging the glasses(for active 3D). I currently have a 3D tv and the last time I watched somthing in 3D was a few years ago. Vr is the same. Even in 2022 you will have to put the headset on and make sure the batteries are charged.
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post #21 of 33 Old 08-05-2016, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I get what your saying but still don't think that's going to happen. Just the same way 3D is dead. With 3D glasses on people could still cozy up but that didn't stop it from failing. People just didn't want the hassle of putting on the glasses and charging the glasses(for active 3D). I currently have a 3D tv and the last time I watched somthing in 3D was a few years ago. Vr is the same. Even in 2022 you will have to put the headset on and make sure the batteries are charged.
You've already made it clear you think $75 Gear VR is the best we can expect.
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post #22 of 33 Old 08-05-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post
You've already made it clear you think $75 Gear VR is the best we can expect.
Gear vr is $99 and I never said that's the best it's going to get. Samsung already announced a new improved gear vr this week with a better interface and wider 101 fov. Next Spring 4K will be coming to gear vr with the s8. I'm very exited to see the future of vr from all the major players (htc, oculus, Sony, Google and Im sure Apple will get into it)! Im just saying I don't see it working out as a HT for alot of people. The cool thing though unlike 3D that only had one use, you can do whatever you want with vr. Vr will not die like 3D.
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post #23 of 33 Old 08-05-2016, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scupking View Post
Gear vr is $99 and I never said that's the best it's going to get. Samsung already announced a new improved gear vr this week with a better interface and wider 101 fov. Next Spring 4K will be coming to gear vr with the s8. I'm very exited to see the future of vr from all the major players (htc, oculus, Sony, Google and Im sure Apple will get into it)! Im just saying I don't see it working out as a HT for alot of people. The cool thing though unlike 3D that only had one use, you can do whatever you want with vr. Vr will not die like 3D.
You just said in your previous post that VR will die like 3D.
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post #24 of 33 Old 08-06-2016, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post
You just said in your previous post that VR will die like 3D.
For home theater use.
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post #25 of 33 Old 08-06-2016, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually these types of devices that you wear over your eyes have likely already cut into PJ sales. Some of these devices are not VR capable and they are just able to project an image.

Look at it this way.

Everyone craves a large format immersion experience. It's almost a "must have" maybe not for women however most men love this stuff.

In the past the only way to get this experience is to (1) go to the movies (2) have a projector (3) to sit very close to a 50" screen. I personally do 1 and 2.

I belive a segment exists of people that will just do 1 and (4) wear one of these devices.

This segment would likely have purchased a PJ however do not for their own reasons. My contention is if it's true that watching movies large format at home is a "must have" then these people have already passed on a PJ in favor of one of these devices.

I further contend these devices (some do VR also while some only project an image) will further cut into PJ sales because they
1. Will get smaller.
2. Will allow you to look around and still have a social experience.
3. Will rival the image of a TV or PJ.

A lot of posters here have implied what's holding them back is the image quality. If the quality improves even some posters here will purchase one to do what had in the past been done by a PJ.

Last edited by anthonybuchanan; 08-06-2016 at 05:21 AM.
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As discussed in the previous thread on this subject, wearable VR devices are a niche product just as front projection is a niche product compared with TV. Use of VR devices will continue to grow as the technology matures but they will never kill other technologies. They simply offer another alternative, which is a good thing. The more alternatives we have the better different people with different preferences can be served. Just as we all don't want to sit in the same row at a commercial cinema so we all don't want to view content on the same medium. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing, especially when there are many good choices.
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post #27 of 33 Old 08-06-2016, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
As discussed in the previous thread on this subject, wearable VR devices are a niche product just as front projection is a niche product compared with TV. Use of VR devices will continue to grow as the technology matures but they will never kill other technologies. They simply offer another alternative, which is a good thing. The more alternatives we have the better different people with different preferences can be served. Just as we all don't want to sit in the same row at a commercial cinema so we all don't want to view content on the same medium. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing, especially when there are many good choices.

I agree.
I am glad I asked.
I have learned.
Thank you.

This is the only post that makes sense.
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post #28 of 33 Old 08-07-2016, 01:41 PM
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I actually own basically the only VR device available that is solely for movie and TV viewing, the Sony HMZ-T3W: (EDIT: there is also the new Avegant Glyph - Video Headset https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FIIU7JW?ref_=ams_ad_dp_ttl)

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HMZ-T3W-.../dp/B00FNJGJN0

It has a MUCH higher pixel density than my Gear VR or an other VR headset because of the way VR headset use head movement.

When using it, it gives a very good illusion of looking at a large screen of a multiplex theater, has superb black levels and outstanding sound quality depending on the headphones you plug into it.

Unfortunately the isolating effects of a VR headset as well as the weight of these devices limit the ability to tolerate use for a movie length experience. For me, it would NEVER replace the experience of my home theater...

Robert Clark

Last edited by Robert Clark; 08-07-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark View Post
I actually own basically the only VR device available that is solely for movie and TV viewing, the Sony HMZ-T3W: (EDIT: there is also the new Avegant Glyph - Video Headset https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FIIU7JW?ref_=ams_ad_dp_ttl)

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HMZ-T3W-.../dp/B00FNJGJN0

It has a MUCH higher pixel density than my Gear VR or an other VR headset because of the way VR headset use head movement.

When using it, it gives a very good illusion of looking at a large screen of a multiplex theater, has superb black levels and outstanding sound quality depending on the headphones you plug into it.

Unfortunately the isolating effects of a VR headset as well as the weight of these devices limit the ability to tolerate use for a movie length experience. For me, it would NEVER replace the experience of my home theater...
Everyone here has already agreed the current headsets have problems.

Future headsets, I suspect, will address all of the stuff you mentioned.

You purchased a few years too early my friend.

Even me, a person that believes they will be used for HT in the future, would never have purchased what's available now.
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post #30 of 33 Old 08-07-2016, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post
Everyone here has already agreed the current headsets have problems.

Future headsets, I suspect, will address all of the stuff you mentioned.

You purchased a few years too early my friend.
Nonsense. You can wait forever until your "dream" product comes out or enjoy what is available. BTW, the Sony headset beats the Gear VR and the Oculus Rift for movie watching hands down in every way... (yes I have used both).

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