DaLite HighPower Angle Pictures and AB compare to High Contrast Matte White - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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OK. A lot of people have been wanting this. This site has helped me out a lot in my decision making, and I hope this helps to "pass it along". Due to reasons I won't bore anyone with yet, I ended up with a Dalite Model B High Contrast Matte White, and a High Power Screen.

I'm shooting a 1HD (Z1) Ceiling mounted.

What follows are is a short review, and a series of pictures comparing the HighPower to the HighContrast Matte White. And, a picture showing the brightness change at extreme angles.

I have a short AVI Movie also I'll link to, showing the change in brightness as I rapidly move around the room.


The Short Review:

The HCMW gives better blacks. The black bars visible on the screen when watching 4:3 video on my 16:9 projector, are almost black, and not at all noticeable. You also have complete viewing location flexibility, with no loss in brightness. But, you can't easily clean the screen, and it isn't as bright as the highpower. Waves are noticeable on this screen.

The Highpower does change in brightness as you move around the room, but very minimally. It seems to fluctuate about 10% visually from one extreme to the other. NOT AT ALL as bad as a rear projection TV. Not even close. Blacks are a bit less black, but the picture is more vibrant, colors pop more, and it can be cleaned. Waves are noticeable, but much less so, and only when scenes are panning and your eyes happen to track over a wave in the screen. It is much much better in that regard.

My vote? I'm definitely keeping the Highpower. Can you sit on the floor and watch TV? YES. Does it get brighter when you stand up from a seated position? (ceiling mount projector) yeah a bit, but not as much as you might think. I'd say you lose about 5% sitting, and another 5% when on the floor. (see movie if you want to see it in 'live action')

What follows are the images, and a link to the movie. (hopefully if I can get it uploaded)

Enjoy and i hope this helps people who were in the same boat I was, unable to decide between screens. All they hype about High Power, is true. It really is as good as everyone says.

-Jason W
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post #2 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you guess which side is the High Power?

All the images here have been cropped and sized for web viewing. I've made NO color corrections or brightness contrast adjustments. The camera was set in manual mode so the settings wouldn't change and a picture was taken with screen A and one with screen B. I then overlaid them together in photoshop. Again. No color corrections or adjustments.

(Please forgive the darkness of the images, but the difference is still obvious)
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post #3 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Same specs as above. This is S-VHS frozen on Tivo. Of... the best SciFi show on TV... Stargate SG1... :-)
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post #4 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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This really shows just how little change there is from one viewing extreme to the other.

Image is an overlay showing both a very extreme side shot and a dead on shot of the HighPower. Again, manual camera settings, the only thing changing is the viewing angle.

NO color corrections, or changes made to the image other than cropping and downsizing.

-Jason
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post #5 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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And lastly the movie.

Be patient with this one. The quality is kinda sucky. it was done with a still camera, that has the optional 'short movie' mode.

i've compressed the video down a bit more, so it loads faster, but the idea is still there, and it gives a good idea of the brightness change. In fact, in person, it looks much less dramatic than even the camera shows. To my eyes as I moved around, I didn't notice that much of a change. Electronics/cameras/etc. always are more sensitive to such things than human eyes are.

Anyway, the movie starts out just below eye level, while standing center. Moves rapidly up even with the projector, back down to about eye level, then rapidly to the right extreme, then all the way to the left extreme, back to center, and ends in the seated position, eye level.

You'll notice from standing to seated position, there is very little change at all visible, even to the camera.

Hope this helps people out. Here's the link:

http://users2.ev1.net/~jw15851/hpangles.avi

good luck all!

-Jason W
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post #6 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:46 PM
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This is excellent!

I have both screens. I tried to posted similar a similar review but the pictures in this one tell it all.

Take it from another person who has both screens: what you see here is 99% close to what you'd see in person.

River
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post #7 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:46 PM
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This is excellent!

I have both screens. I tried to post similar a similar review but the pictures in this one tell it all.

Take it from another person who has both screens: what you see here is 99% close to what you'd see in person.

River
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post #8 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 07:57 PM
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Very good job. I find your verbal description to be right on, with my experience. I'm watching that psycho Hitler thing on HD right now, and I am sitting outside the edge of the screen. Looks great! Totally practical to watch from here.

Your movie is portraying clearly more drop-off than is seen in real life, by an order of magnitude. I suspect our eyes adjust very rapidly when we move around, and the drop-off appears to be much less than it actually is. That's the only way I can explain how a dumb camera sees such a huge difference that is not apparent to the eye.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #9 of 251 Old 05-20-2003, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's one more picture for the bunch. This is the same image from MonstersInc, but this time in photoshop I did the overlay as horizontal bands. The difference between the two screens is even more dramatic when compared in this way.

Enjoy all!

-Jason W
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post #10 of 251 Old 05-21-2003, 01:00 AM
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I am hesitant to extrapolate from photos of a screen, but in these images, it appears the High Power has better shadow detail, even if the "blacks" are inferior.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #11 of 251 Old 05-21-2003, 05:51 AM
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Jason, thanks for the review - exactly what I have been looking for. Based on what I see, I am soooo glad I ordered the HighPower - mine should be here today. Couple questions: first, is your HighPower also a Model B? (just wondering if the Model C I ordered will exhibit any of the same barely visible wrinkles you mentioned); second, what's your screen size and PJ distance to screen? Your pics look phenomenal, much better than what I remember from briefly seeing the Z1 in person.

JHouse, thanks for the push. Your "stop worrying and get the HighPower" post last week was just what I needed.

-tony
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post #12 of 251 Old 05-21-2003, 10:36 AM
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Thank you for this thread!

You just made up my mind for me!


-Joel

Joel
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post #13 of 251 Old 05-21-2003, 04:52 PM
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Group hug.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #14 of 251 Old 05-21-2003, 07:34 PM
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If the projector is table mounted, would the angle changes be more dramatic since it is brighter than ceiling mounted?

James
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post #15 of 251 Old 05-21-2003, 07:59 PM
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Nope. I know this from standing directly under my pj and moving around intentionally to see the effect. No biggy.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #16 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Good question... I'm not sure. I have a 2 year old, and another one on the way. I don't have the guts to have the projector anywhere near where anything under 5 feet tall could possibly touch it. :-) My gut feeling is no. Because when standing under the projector, the effect is the same as if you were standing above it. Your eyes are basically roughly centered on the screen. If the projector is up or down it dosen't matter at that point. So the pictures or movie should be accurate because they were mostly taken standing as I moved around the room.

This is going to sound silly, but off the top of my head i can't rember what my screen size is. It's a standard 'common' size just under 100" diagional I think 96", and somthing like 52" tall. (16x9 to match the projector)

The projector is mounted such that when the zoom is all the way back for the widest screen, it basically fills the screen. (just a little too small actually, but for this discussion it'll work)

The lens shift correction of the 1HD allows a lot more ease of mounting. Basically just get it close, then dial in the screen location.

-Jason
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post #17 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 07:01 AM
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JW, the standard 16:9 screen in that range is 92x52 - 106" diagonal.

-tony
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post #18 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 01:13 PM
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I read that the differences is not how close you are to the height of the projector (ie standing up or sitting down) that affects the percieve brighness on the screen, but how high your projector is from the screen center. In other words if your projector is 2 feet above the top edge of the screen, it will not be as bright as if it were just above or below screen center. Did I read this info incorrectly?
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post #19 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 01:18 PM
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Actually, and theoretically, because it is retro-reflective, the projector itself has the best seat, no matter where it is. That's why ambient light from the side window doesn't come to you on the couch, because it (mostly) reflects back out the window from whence it came. So it really is the distance you are from the pj lens. Theoretically. The reality doesn't seem to be so critical.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #20 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 01:25 PM
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Exactly, so if your projector is 2ft above the top edge of the screen...wouldn't most of the light be angled back up and when you are sitting you are much lower. Whereas, if the projector is just off screen center it appear much brighter...right?

I think I confused you, because I was not trying to say the side to side brightness would be more dramatic based on where the projector is mounted.
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post #21 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 01:33 PM
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You are correct. You sure don't want to mount it way above the screen, or you will have a pretty bright ceiling. You want it in the vicinity of you, if you want the whole Magilla (gain-wise that is).

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #22 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 04:58 PM
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Excellent pictures, movie, and the narrative, Jason! Thanks!!!

Regarding the brightness change shown in the movie, I would say this is about what I see subjectively on my High Power. I do see about this much of change when I QUICKLY walk around.

However, human eyes have this amazing capability of quickly adapting to the overall luminance of what you are looking at. So if you are actually watching a movie, the perceived brightness change will very quickly "wean off" within a minute or so. Again, another key thing here is, as you see in the movie, the brightness changes perfectly UNIFORMLY across the screen. No unpleasant hot spotting or super-narrow vertical viewing angle often seen in the RPTVs.

FYI, I am projecting onto a 120"-diagonal, from the Yamaha LPX-500 table-mounted with the lens center at 42" above the floor (about my eye level when I sit up tall).
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post #23 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm happy to help folks out, I made my decision on the highpower based completely on the opinions of the people here in this forum. When I ordered, though I was still nervous about the whole viewing angle issue. (I did NOT want it to be like a rear projection TV) And I wished there were some pictures, or a movie showing a comparison. When I ended up with two screens (temporary until I send the mis-shipped one back) I saw my chance :-)

On paper, according to Dalite, and many people who sell the screens, this screen shouldn't work this well for ceiling mounted use. But I assure you that it absolutely does.

Regarding the questions about brightness depending on where the projector is mounted. The comments are correct that, the image will appear brightest, when your eyes are nearest the projector, since thats where the light is coming from, and reflecting back to.

This is why in the movie, when it first begins, I bring the camera up even with the projector. You can see it briefly come into the frames from the top. You'll notice that when you go up that extra little bit, the difference in brightness is not very noticeable.

The greater difference is when moving from side to side. Why? Because I'm moving rapidly across the room, rather than up a few feet. (much more distance off center)

And indeed in the movie, I was moving very quickly. (I had 15 seconds to go from standing, up to projector, back to standing, all the way right, all the way left, back to center, and then to sitting position.

I don't know anyone except maybe my 2 year old that would possibly move that quickly through the room. My point? People viewing the screen will hardly notice the brightness change, because in all likelihood they will be moving slower, and the eyes will adapt to the difference quickly. Will you still notice a difference yeah. But not as much as the movie shows.

I also agree that the brightness of the screen is uniform as you move around. Evenly changing in brightness ever so slightly.

-Jason W
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post #24 of 251 Old 05-22-2003, 09:50 PM
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I am using a Da-Lite hipower screen with a ceiling mounted Sony 23HT.
I prefer the ceiling mount to a "floor" mounted projector with this screen.
The retro-reflective nature of the screen is better with ceiling mounted projectors.
Great screen!
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post #25 of 251 Old 05-23-2003, 12:42 AM
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Probably I will go with the High Power screen - if I am lucky enough to find a good reseller here in Vamcouver.
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post #26 of 251 Old 05-23-2003, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Hit Dalite's web site, I'm sure they can hook you up with someone in your area

-Jason
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post #27 of 251 Old 05-23-2003, 11:18 AM
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Try the AVS guys. They can get it to you for cheap and maybe they will be able to afford to upgrade their server again.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #28 of 251 Old 05-23-2003, 04:15 PM
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Yes, buy online, stingray.

I bought my custom-masked High Power from the ProjectorShopper (with a better price than what AVS gave me), and I was pretty happy with the whole transaction with Andrew the salesperson. Most importantly, my screen was made exactly to my specs and arrived in a pristine physical condition. I understand that VisualApex is another popular and reputable vendor. At any rate, I do not see why you have to buy it from a local dealer (unless they can give you a great price, which I would say is unlikely). The screen will be ground-shipped all the way from the factory anyway.
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post #29 of 251 Old 05-23-2003, 04:49 PM
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Just don't want to go through the extra cost (which you don't know until the shipment arrives) of Canadian Custom and heard cases that the duty is over 50% of the purchased price. That's Canadian government. You guys are lucky!

Thanks for the information!
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post #30 of 251 Old 05-23-2003, 05:00 PM
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Oh, sorry I did not read your post carefully enough (or I forgot where the border is)! LOL
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