White, Grey, or Silver - A Review! - Page 35 - AVS Forum
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post #1021 of 1039 Old 01-07-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

I kinda like bright scenes to look like bright scenes myself. I realize there are people trying to reproduce theater dimness, which is really dictated by the poor framerate, rather than quality reasons. I do think most people will take the bright punchy image over the dull one, even on movies.

I don't see how I would have any problem getting bright punchy images on a .9 grey with 27fL coming off it
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post #1022 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 09:34 AM
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Well, for one thing to consider is 27fL on a new bulb is probably as low as 13fL as the bulb dims. It could very well be that you will be really happy with the gray screen. It would be nice if you could try both.
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post #1023 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Well, for one thing to consider is 27fL on a new bulb is probably as low as 13fL as the bulb dims. It could very well be that you will be really happy with the gray screen. It would be nice if you could try both.

But that's just a subtle, diplomatic and politically correct way of saying if you see them side by side you will dump the gray screen.

Very devious. Congrats!

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #1024 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHouse View Post

But that's just a subtle, diplomatic and politically correct way of saying if you see them side by side you will dump the gray screen.

Very devious. Congrats!

How can you view them side by side when each will require a completely different calibration in terms of brightness. Even using the definition of ambient light as light coming into the room other than that made by the projector, (one I don't agree with) saying no external light makes it into the room. You still have the half of the screen that is being overdriven in the case of calibrating to the lower gain or darker screen bouncing light around the room causing an ambient source. In the case of calibrating to the whiter or higher gain screen and under driving the gray screen your eyes iris will set its f-stop based on the brighter half image and clue you to dump the gray screen because it will look to be way to dark.

The only true test IMHO is to view both separate with the same foot lamberts returning to your eyes off each of the screens not out of the projector and then judge the effect of ambient on the perceived CR you see.



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post #1025 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 12:38 PM
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All true. You need them set up in two adjacent rooms so you can just slide side to side. Of course, your eyes will have to adjust with each move.

But the trick is getting the same fL out of each screen. You sure can't use the same projector.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

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Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #1026 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 12:59 PM
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Or simply spend a few days with the gray screen and it's measly 27fl, then spend a few days with the hp screen and its lovely 60fL (assuming 2 gain) and see which you enjoy more. Of course the real test would be toward the other end of the bulbs life when you will be comparing 13.5fL from the gray with 30fL from the HP. If 60fL is too bright you could always use an nd2 filter for the first half of the bulbs life.
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post #1027 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 01:03 PM
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Or set the bulb on low.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #1028 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Or simply spend a few days with the gray screen and it's measly 27fl, then spend a few days with the hp screen and its lovely 60fL (assuming 2 gain) and see which you enjoy more. Of course the real test would be toward the other end of the bulbs life when you will be comparing 13.5fL from the gray with 30fL from the HP. If 60fL is too bright you could always use an nd2 filter for the first half of the bulbs life.

I am taking this all under advisement, but still playing devils advocate since no one else is

First, some updated calculations: The screen viewable area is actually 67x38, with that we get:
> .9 gain grey x 565(lumens)/17.67sqft = 28.77fL
> 1.0 gain white x 565/17.67sqft = 32fL (31.97 actually)

That's only a 3.2fL difference between .9 grey and 1.0 white.

Now, for those here that are the super high fL fanboys, what fL are you actually getting in your theater? You don't have to actually measure, but just calculate via screen size, gain and lumens your PJ is putting out calibrated (to D65 I assume). I can't imagine anyone is really getting 60fL

Lamp aging is a good point and something I've thought about. Yet with almost 29fL to start off with, I obviously can afford losing lumens over time. Remember, I don't watch sports/news on the PJ, just movies. I also don't like 'torch' modes, my LCD LED is calibrated at moderate brightness (backlight level), not store torch modes (which I hate). With the lights off at night, I can watch my LCD w/o squinting.

Now, I currently have a 60" matte white BO screen, probably 1.0 gain, so I'll be able to test it out before I buy the grey. I won't bother with a grey 'sample' as it seems to be a waste trying to judge a whole screen/image on just a few sq inches of a sample. But I already know that even with my Optoma H31 on this small 1.0 white screen, there were times in the past (new lamp) when even my guests squinted in slight pain as a scene switched from very dark to very bright. I would think that anyone getting 60fL from a large screen would literally have to put sunglasses on during bright scenes

ND2 filter> I've thought of this too. But it seems that a grey screen offers benefits the ND2 won't. This, and much of why I'm leaning towards a .9 grey can be explained in this short thread I started in October, and darinp2's article in HT secrets>

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186634

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...s.html?start=1

I would venture to guess that most of you posting support for HP screens (or just against grey) and the like are running much bigger screens than me? I can understand that of course, if I was running a larger screen, I would not at all go for a negative gain grey, I'd go white. But my screen viewing area is gonna be only 67x38, matched to a PJ with 565 lumens in low lamp mode.

Thoughts?
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post #1029 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 04:04 PM
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Well, my 120" SS is rated at 6.0 gain. My AE-2000U is running normal mode right now, which projectorcentral rates at 900 lumens. So that would be 6.0*900/51.22 = 105.42 fL. I NEVER watch sports/news it isn't hooked up to cable, but I play WoW and XBox on it a lot.
Plus I am only sitting 7' from the 10' diagnal screen. I like the Imax experience.

Of course I don't think the SS is really 6.0 gain, and I have a few hundred hours on the bulb. I should pick up a light meter.
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post #1030 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 04:12 PM
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Maybe it is just me, but if looking at the sun makes me squint outside, looking at the sun on my projector should make me squint. No gain no pain.
yeah, sorry.
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post #1031 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Maybe it is just me, but if looking at the sun makes me squint outside, looking at the sun on my projector should make me squint. No gain no pain.
yeah, sorry.

It's only the reflective rays of the sun we see in the image, not the sun itself. And even in 'sun shots', it's a filtered image....

(though you were probably being sarcastic).

Of course looking into the PJ gives that same 'sun' effect, not matter the PJ.
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post #1032 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Well, my 120" SS is rated at 6.0 gain. My AE-2000U is running normal mode right now, which projectorcentral rates at 900 lumens. So that would be 6.0*900/51.22 = 105.42 fL. I NEVER watch sports/news it isn't hooked up to cable, but I play WoW and XBox on it a lot.
Plus I am only sitting 7' from the 10' diagnal screen. I like the Imax experience.

Of course I don't think the SS is really 6.0 gain, and I have a few hundred hours on the bulb. I should pick up a light meter.

Ok then!

Wow.
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post #1033 of 1039 Old 01-08-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Well, my 120" SS is rated at 6.0 gain. My AE-2000U is running normal mode right now, which projectorcentral rates at 900 lumens. So that would be 6.0*900/51.22 = 105.42 fL. I NEVER watch sports/news it isn't hooked up to cable, but I play WoW and XBox on it a lot.
Plus I am only sitting 7' from the 10' diagnal screen. I like the Imax experience.

Of course I don't think the SS is really 6.0 gain, and I have a few hundred hours on the bulb. I should pick up a light meter.

In Tryg's review on the first page of this thread, he says he thinks the gain is more like half that.
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post #1034 of 1039 Old 10-25-2010, 08:41 AM
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Tryg or anyone else, For my Sony VPL-VW60 PJ, should I go with Silver instead of White or Grey. This will be used in family room. THanks!!
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post #1035 of 1039 Old 10-25-2010, 10:45 AM
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Wow, you found a very old thread. I put my projector in my family room and when I got my Silverscreen I was amazed by the difference over my previous white screen (blackout cloth). The video on Vutec's website really shows the difference.
http://www.vutec.com/Products/Vutec_...ens/SilverStar
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post #1036 of 1039 Old 10-26-2010, 06:20 PM
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wnielsenbb, so you are saying to go with Silverscren instead of bright white or gray?
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post #1037 of 1039 Old 10-26-2010, 06:58 PM
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I would without hesitation recommend the SS over white or grey.
I did just read a review of the screen innovations Black Diamond screen however.
This sounds even better. You should google that.
Maybe the thread should be White, Grey, Silver or Black.
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post #1038 of 1039 Old 06-16-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1039 of 1039 Old 06-16-2014, 06:27 PM
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ttt?
Wow, you dug this thread out of the grave.
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