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post #61 of 93 Old 07-22-2017, 09:00 AM
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Are you going to have your own booth?

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post #62 of 93 Old 07-22-2017, 06:35 PM
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With the masking system would it be possible to have multiple stop points for other ratios (1.85,2.0,2.2,2.55,2.76 etc)? If not could you just have a jog and stop version?
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post #63 of 93 Old 07-23-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boothman View Post
With the masking system would it be possible to have multiple stop points for other ratios (1.85,2.0,2.2,2.55,2.76 etc)? If not could you just have a jog and stop version?
The basic Somfy RTS / included remote features only one "my" / "favourite position" stop point (i.e. the 2.40:1 stop at a 16:9 <-> 2.40:1 1-way masking setup), but it is very easy to adjust this preferred point and also storing it; you simply click "my" to get the masking stopped at the favourite position, adjust it to the new position and then press and hold the "my" button to store it (if you´d want to store it as the new favourite that is). I´m sure it would be possible to use the RTS <-> RS485 protocol (add on module from Somfy) to manually sett several stop points though, we will certainly look into that too.

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post #64 of 93 Old 07-23-2017, 07:06 PM
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So, a couple of pics further detailing the back of the frame on our 3D printed prototype. The roller moves up and down through custom tracks on each side.

Also, I have attached a couple of 3D outputs of the specific frame that will be displayed at CEDIA, it´s going to be MASSIVE - but since the feedback we got on last years CEDIA were just that; doing a 14 ft. 2.35:1 native screen at that time - folks wanted it even LARGER and also motorised masking that did not cost half a house. We listened! Please note that for the 2.40:1 native screen (2-way masking to 16:9) the max width can be as much as 23 ft. However, since we are doing the masking from the top down, not the sides, there will be no adjustment possibilty for this masking solution other than fixed 16:9 and 2.40:1. So, for most US installations where ceiling height is not the limitation I would presume the 16:9 native 1-way masking would be the most prominent alternative. This solution will also allow for full closing of the masking fabric to protect that fabric while not in use, a feature that is not available for the 2.40:1 native 2-way system. So, basically, the 2.40:1 native alternative is more of an alternative used if ceiling height limits the size too much, which is a very common issue in Europe.

Shipping is also a crucial factor in terms of cost on these large items and therefore both the frame as well as the masking roller is dividable allowing all frame- and masking sizes to be shippable by express / air.
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post #65 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Are you going to have your own booth?
Sorry, forgot to reply on this one @Ericglo ; we´re at the Alcons Pro Ribbon Immersive Experience stand up in one of the High Performance Audio Rooms (25C) up in the Upper Level. Will be using a Barco LOKI dual laser 4K projector @ 8500 lumens (peak). Screen width is 15 1/2 ft wide, 16:9 native, 1-way masking to cinescope.

It´s going to be a massively cool demo, Trinnov 32 channel preamp, all critical channels will be run through digital AES / EBU, 6 overhead speakers in ATMOS layout, wides, bunch of subs; you name it!!

I´ve included some brochure material for the UltraWeave V6 in its new "XXL" proportions as well as for the MotoMask frame. As for the motorised masking system, it´s not the final production model showcased at the stand, but functionality is identical in terms of being able to close all the way down etc.

We hope to see as many entusiasts as possible stepping by the stand!





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post #66 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 02:56 AM
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...and here´s a very quick sketch that we made based on the layout set by Walter Fortmuller. Speaker type is CRMS MKII in front, we used CRMSc, a smaller version in this example, so not 100% accurate. Height of various speakers is not accurate either, but it gives an overall impression of the magnitude of the setup this year - I believe it´s going to sound truly immersive and we´ll run a lot of of 16:9-formatted content as well as cinescope in a number of native sound formats.

The green boxes depicted are 1D QRD diffusors by the way, custom made in "Alcons Green" (supplied by us) for this show... Pretty high tuned due to limited depth as we had to make sure the weight was not too high (100mm), but still, they will certainly add to the scatter and diffusional characteristics of the room. We might add similar panels for sale as well later on, but not yet decided...



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post #67 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 09:38 AM
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Please see press release from Alcons Audio for more info; http://www.alconsaudio.com/award-win...returns-cedia/.
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post #68 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
...and here´s a very quick sketch that we made based on the layout set by Walter Fortmuller. Speaker type is CRMS MKII in front, we used CRMSc, a smaller version in this example, so not 100% accurate. Height of various speakers is not accurate either, but it gives an overall impression of the magnitude of the setup this year - I believe it´s going to sound truly immersive and we´ll run a lot of of 16:9-formatted content as well as cinescope in a number of native sound formats.

The green boxes depicted are 1D QRD diffusors by the way, custom made in "Alcons Green" (supplied by us) for this show... Pretty high tuned due to limited depth as we had to make sure the weight was not too high (100mm), but still, they will certainly add to the scatter and diffusional characteristics of the room. We might add similar panels for sale as well later on, but not yet decided...
Hi Jon, wow that sure sounds like a serious party! Nice!

Hey Peter @CINERAMAX how about we all check this out immediately before or after the Dynaudio demo? What do you think?

It'll be nice to see you again Jon and looking forward to checking out the V6 in action
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post #69 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
I´ve included some brochure material for the UltraWeave V6 in its new "XXL" proportions as well as for the MotoMask frame. As for the motorised masking system, it´s not the final production model showcased at the stand, but functionality is identical in terms of being able to close all the way down etc.
Hi Jon. Can the screen be configured to mask from the bottom up vs. top down? Thanks.
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post #70 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 10:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Hi Jon, wow that sure sounds like a serious party! Nice!

Hey Peter @CINERAMAX how about we all check this out immediately before or after the Dynaudio demo? What do you think?

It'll be nice to see you again Jon and looking forward to checking out the V6 in action
.
Sure thing 9am. "They do not need to see our identification" at the door. I'll hit you up 5 before.

The setup is nearly exactly as a selfish bastard jedi master would have done except the listeners exclusion box is too generous accomodating every breather in the group. But diluting the vip seats around the head envelope.



The other only thing i would have swapped the surrounds and the rears, this will not be a good example of directional bass, as it works better on a 5+wides full range setup, but the goals are to please everybody so that it shall.
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post #71 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 10:27 PM
 
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Wink Jon Has been bussy

Nice Job Jon looks like you made a lot of progress on PLF Masking so awesome.Keeping the image at the bottom enhances the vertical stereo HEIGHT of the presentation congrats. Hey there are two dinners in a thread if you want to come sign up. There is a different cigar of the night.
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post #72 of 93 Old 08-31-2017, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Hi Jon, wow that sure sounds like a serious party! Nice!

Hey Peter @CINERAMAX how about we all check this out immediately before or after the Dynaudio demo? What do you think?

It'll be nice to see you again Jon and looking forward to checking out the V6 in action
.
Thanks Nigel, Alcons has really gone all in this year and I am just super grateful for being able to take part in this wild setup... It´s gonna be some serious work getting this setup though, but hopefully everything will move according to plan!

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post #73 of 93 Old 09-01-2017, 01:19 AM
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Hi Jon. Can the screen be configured to mask from the bottom up vs. top down? Thanks.
Our main worry for this show is; where´s the main man this year (meaning YOU!)!

As for masking, one of our main goals with this new design is to avoid pulleys and try to fight gravity as little as humanly possible... We have supplied our customers with masking systems for more than 10 years. Two very specific items has ALWAYS caused us problems no matter the price of the system; the pulleys + gravity. Gravity being introduced as an issue going in sideways with the masking panels, i.e. horizontal masking - as the masking panel is being pulled down (by gravity that is) and thus easily getting stuck in its tracks. As for for bottom-up masking, it would have to use both pulleys and also fight gravity full scale, so for this model it will not be available I´m afraid.

These frames will be delivered in either 2.40:1 or 16:9 native formats (you would have to choose), while the masking systems will contain the masking rollers for both 1-way and 2-way systems to keep reduce complexity in production. Like the long sides of the frame, the roller will be divided in two, in order to accommodate lower cost transport as well as larger sizes.

Instead of the "systems of old", we wanted to design one that was of high quality, yet uses as few moving parts as possible, and also is modular as a lot of our type of clientele (mainly enthusiasts) want to invest stepwise. Being able to first purchase the frame + fabric and later, very easily, add the masking is definately very appealing for our core customer base. As such, it would be even more important to keep the masking system free of pulleys etc. as that would make retrofitting all but impossible. Also, we wanted the 1-way masking to be able to travel all the way down so that the fabric can be better protected when not in use.

Still, I´m not saying 1-way bottom-up, 2-way horizontal or even 4-way masking is out of the question in the future, we just need to figure out smarter and more cost effecient solutions...

As for now, the default formats will be;

  • 240cm / 94 1/2" image width -> 16:9 and 2.40 native
  • 285cm / 112" image width -> 16:9 and 2.40 native
  • 350cm / 138" image width -> 16:9 and 2.40 native
  • 400cm / 157 1/2" image width -> 16:9 and 2.40 native
  • 470cm / 185" image width -> 16:9 and 2.40 native
  • 600cm / 236" image width -> 2.40 native only
  • 680cm / 268" image width -> 2.40 native only


Custom sizes will also be available as well. Will also be available in the US through AVScience.com, hopefully by end Q4 this year.
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post #74 of 93 Old 09-01-2017, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Nice Job Jon looks like you made a lot of progress on PLF Masking so awesome.Keeping the image at the bottom enhances the vertical stereo HEIGHT of the presentation congrats. Hey there are two dinners in a thread if you want to come sign up. There is a different cigar of the night.
Have barely had the time to wipe my axx the last couply of months, so have not had the time to read the dinner posts, but I´m sure both me and the engineer that is tagging along would want to join the dinner(s), thx!

As for this particular frame; it´s a prototype made out in 400 pounds of massive steel, so not looking forward to assembly, can tell you that much... We have also brought a non-masked 16:9 native plan B frame (same size, 212") if all goes haywire, but hopefully this will work out. I do agree that if ceiling height is not an issue - it makes full sense doing 16:9 native and immerse yourself when content says so. Game of Thrones @ 212" 16:9 would, however, require some serious upgrade from HBO in terms of bitrate to look good at such a size, but hopefully quality will improve for shows as they have for movies going forward...

See you there!

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post #75 of 93 Old 09-01-2017, 01:41 AM
 
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Have barely had the time to wipe my axx the last couply of months, so have not had the time to read the dinner posts, but I´m sure both me and the engineer that is tagging along would want to join the dinner(s), thx!

As for this particular frame; it´s a prototype made out in 400 pounds of massive steel, so not looking forward to assembly, can tell you that much... We have also brought a non-masked 16:9 native plan B frame (same size, 212") if all goes haywire, but hopefully this will work out. I do agree that if ceiling height is not an issue - it makes full sense doing 16:9 native and immerse yourself when content says so. Game of Thrones @ 212" 16:9 would, however, require some serious upgrade from HBO in terms of bitrate to look good at such a size, but hopefully quality will improve for shows as they have for movies going forward...

See you there!
Ok adding you to the dinners. See ya , like they say in Denmark: Knæk og bræk
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post #76 of 93 Old 09-01-2017, 07:47 AM
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Our main worry for this show is; where´s the main man this year (meaning YOU!)!
You are way too kind. I am starting to come back out of the woodwork and I am getting back to working on the theater. To help ensure I keep on track, I have arranged for a mid/large sized gathering on Oct 21 to demo the theater and get together with other HT enthusiasts. I have a lot to do by then but I am confident all will be ready. In fact, I was going to place an order for some additional skyline diffusers from your site very soon.

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As for masking, one of our main goals with this new design is to avoid pulleys and try to fight gravity as little as humanly possible... We have supplied our customers with masking systems for more than 10 years. Two very specific items has ALWAYS caused us problems no matter the price of the system; the pulleys + gravity. Gravity being introduced as an issue going in sideways with the masking panels, i.e. horizontal masking - as the masking panel is being pulled down (by gravity that is) and thus easily getting stuck in its tracks. As for for bottom-up masking, it would have to use both pulleys and also fight gravity full scale, so for this model it will not be available I´m afraid.
I fully understand and thank you for the detailed explanation. In my case, I am very limited on how far up I can place the screen and the top of it is the prime real estate. If I ever move back to 16:9 with the same screen width, the bottom of the screen may suffer some from foot blocking (when reclined) and probably worse blocking from the back row.

Best of luck with CEDIA. I really wish I was there to help. I still rave about how much fun I had last year.
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post #77 of 93 Old 09-15-2017, 07:46 AM
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Want to say a few words about the V6 fabric. The manufacturing process is down pat now. The fabric looked perfect this year. I walked up to the screen with the room lights on and inspected the screen from only a few inches away, looking closely at the all of the screen. This is a really good AT screen material. No shimmer or sparkle anywhere and offers very good sharpness. The fabric is very smooth for a weave and looks like a solid screen from only a few feet away. Best of all it is available DIY as well as with a frame and soon will be available with a powered masking system. Speaking of the masking system, what was shown was a prototype, but it worked flawlessly, doing exactly what a masking system should do. I am as excited about the masking system as I am about the screen itself. We do not have very many masking systems available and what is cool about this one is, you can get the screen and use it as is for a while and then add the masking system later. Means you do not have to layout as much money all at once.
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post #78 of 93 Old 09-19-2017, 08:35 PM
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I also thought the V6 screen looked excellent ! No surface artifacts or texture, and great sound. And that was one big screen ! Plus, I loved the masking system !



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post #79 of 93 Old 09-22-2017, 10:38 AM
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Thanks Mike and Craig for stepping by, and luckily you even liked what you saw!

Some shots from our recent CEDIA demo! All-in-all, we´re very happy with taking part in this Alcons Immersive Pro-Ribbon Experience, it´s a hell of a lot of work, and being located off the showroom floor (in one of the High Performance Audio rooms at the upper floor) we might not had quite the traffic we had hoped for, the room rattled like hell and we had a bunch of issues with the sound processor, but fun nonetheless - at least retrospectively!

Still, as for the prototype motorised masking screen, it was certainly proof of concept. 400 or so pounds in pure steel was one hellofajob getting up, but the team managed to do it after two attempts! The final version will certainly be far lighter as it will be made out in aluminum only, and also heavily weight optimalised by adding pockets etc. 1-way masking that is able to travel all the way down really does a great job in framing the image while keeping a constant lower placement for the image. In addition, closing the masking all the way down protects the screen while not in use, a very important feature for a lot of customers that has kids, dogs, cats wondering around the house... so we´re now making out the final moulds, and will head for mass production within 1-2 months. Still working out some details on the masking roller as such, one of them trying to solve the 110V/220V motor challenge as Somfy actually uses different models for these two markets. We´ll find a solution soon! Also, we will look into making the masking fabric even darker / blacker, the prototype was indeed a bit too charcoal.

As for the new V6 PRO XXL fabric, it really worked wonders, flawless! The use of the patented UltraWeaved layer really creates a seamless, ultrasharp surface like no others... Albeit spandex / knitted fabrics have a tight surface as well, the weave, especially in the shape and form used on the V6, really sharpens up the image in comparison. I truly encourage getting ahold of samples and A/B comparing to any other fabric out there, for US customers AVScience.com now have loads of sample material available, while International customers can order their samples directly from www.DreamScreen.eu.
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post #80 of 93 Old 09-22-2017, 11:26 AM
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Here another set of "behind the scenes"... The upper small image shows a 3D-printed part that we had to make just before the show started as it turned out the roller was made out a little too narrow. The lower small image shows how the masking roller is easily added retrospectively (after the fabric is attached and the frame is ready for use). The two larger images to the right showcases how the functionality of the 1-way masking roller works; upper image shows it in "cinescope mode", while the lower shows it moving towards the bottom / closing off and protecting the screen.

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post #81 of 93 Old 09-22-2017, 04:46 PM
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It is an impressive screen.
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post #82 of 93 Old 09-22-2017, 05:17 PM
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It would be nice as an option to provide non transparent masking that could be darker since most screen speakers wouldn't be behind the masked part of the screen. If height speakers are wanted behind also then the transparent masking could be used.
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post #83 of 93 Old 09-22-2017, 05:22 PM
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What's the gain? Has it changed any from V5?
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post #84 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 02:40 AM
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It would be nice as an option to provide non transparent masking that could be darker since most screen speakers wouldn't be behind the masked part of the screen. If height speakers are wanted behind also then the transparent masking could be used.
Completely agreed, and we are looking into different alternatives in such regards. The roller system is basically completely "open source", so any fabric can basically be used - also printed fabrics etc.

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post #85 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 02:46 AM
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DreamScreen V6 UltraWeave AT Screen

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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
What's the gain? Has it changed any from V5?
Increased sharpness (quite significant) as well as structural quality (i.e. it emulates almost 100% that of a regular PVC screen coating right now, V5 was good in such regards too, but V6 is even better) are the main arguments. Gain is still in the 0.8 department (0.81-0.82), but again - a number of other suppliers are indeed inflating their values while we have benchmarked this gain towards what we regards the industry standard in non-AT fabrics; Stewart Studiotek 100 (which is regarded as 1.0). Gain is also measures after incoming measured white light is fully D65 corrected. I strongly encourage getting ahold of a sample (as large as possible) and compare it to the alternatives (AVScience.com in the US, DreamScreen.eu Internationally).

Also, for this latest "PRO XXL" production (which is what AVScience.com (US) & DreamScreen.eu (International) has in stock right now), the fabric is now fire retardant, which is often a requirement for pro-installations. In addition, packaging has been heavily improved to better accommodate International (re)shippings; core dimension (where the fabric is rolled onto) has been more than doubled, and we also roll the entire piece of V6-fabric onto a separate fluffy, protective fabric. In addition, the outer roll is much stronger / thicker / heavier than before. All-in-all, we have not experienced one single transport damage / issue thus far on this production run...
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post #86 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 09:59 AM
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Thank you for your detailed response! My current SMX AT material (the Shearweave stuff) is keeping me from going to 4K. It is just too coarse. But it does have a gain that is better than any material I have tested, better than materials that claim a 1.0 gain. It's hard to give that up. It's such a beautiful picture with 1080 now. I have tested the V5 material and it is the front runner, except for the gain.

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Increased sharpness (quite significant) as well as structural quality (i.e. it emulates almost 100% that of a regular PVC screen coating right now, V5 was good in such regards too, but V6 is even better) are the main arguments. Gain is still in the 0.8 department (0.81-0.82), but again - a number of other suppliers are indeed inflating their values while we have benchmarked this gain towards what we regards the industry standard in non-AT fabrics; Stewart Studiotek 100 (which is regarded as 1.0). Gain is also measures after incoming measured white light is fully D65 corrected. I strongly encourage getting ahold of a sample (as large as possible) and compare it to the alternatives (AVScience.com in the US, DreamScreen.eu Internationally).

Also, for this latest "PRO XXL" production (which is what AVScience.com (US) & DreamScreen.eu (International) has in stock right now), the fabric is now fire retardant, which is often a requirement for pro-installations. In addition, packaging has been heavily improved to better accommodate International (re)shippings; core dimension (where the fabric is rolled onto) has been more than doubled, and we also roll the entire piece of V6-fabric onto a separate fluffy, protective fabric. In addition, the outer roll is much stronger / thicker / heavier than before. All-in-all, we have not experienced one single transport damage / issue thus far on this production run...
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post #87 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Thank you for your detailed response! My current SMX AT material (the Shearweave stuff) is keeping me from going to 4K. It is just too coarse. But it does have a gain that is better than any material I have tested, better than materials that claim a 1.0 gain. It's hard to give that up. It's such a beautiful picture with 1080 now. I have tested the V5 material and it is the front runner, except for the gain.
I´d certainly say you should still have a look at the V6 and see the difference. Although the gain increase from the V5 is not that much, in reality it looks far more "solid" and as stated in the previous post; sharper. If you get a somewhat big piece it would be easier for you to assess the gain difference, my assumption is that the V6 and your SMX will be a very close call, but you´ll have the benefit of sharpness, density (allows for closer seating, 4K, 8K++), and also higher acoustical transparency - my assumption would be 1dB improvement on average which might not sound like much but at those higher frequencies making out the "micro detailing" of the sound imagery it´s actually quite significant... Also, it is beneficial that you do D65 correct of each material separately prior to making the final assumption as any color shift (practically none for the V6, it´s within >98% of D65 reference...) in the fabric should be corrected for prior to doing any final comparisons. Also, please remember that acoustical blockage increases as the SPL decreases - by other words - while audio at 90dB would only be dampened by 2dB, the same audio at 70dB would have typically twice as high blockage, and if the blockage @ 90dB is 1-2-3dB higher to begin with, it multiplies going into the more subtle detailing... By other words, the AT is VERY VERY important, and this is also why we are not going "gain bananas", but combine the composition of layers very carefully to optimalise both audio and video. Our patented multiple layer system, whereas the initial layer is randomly woven and the second + third backing layer is knitted, does just that; it allows us to basically replicate the coating of a regular PVC screen (non-AT) while still keeping the AT at reference levels as the knitted fabrics are very AT friendly (but not so much in terms of sharpness).

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Last edited by Lygren; 09-23-2017 at 10:28 AM.
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post #88 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 10:42 AM
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Would you be willing to send me a sample of the V6? Since it is the front-runner, perhaps a larger sample? I'm willing to pay for it. I'll PM you.

The SMX is significantly brighter than Falcon, Seymour XD, UF, En, Screen Innovations, V5... but in all other areas I've got a real case of upgrade-itis. All that you say below is true.

EDIT: I just saw that I am to contact AVS for samples. I'll do that.

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I´d certainly say you should still have a look at the V6 and see the difference. Although the gain increase from the V5 is not that much, in reality it looks far more "solid" and as stated in the previous post; sharper. If you get a somewhat big piece it would be easier for you to assess the gain difference, my assumption is that the V6 and your SMX will be a very close call, but you´ll have the benefit of sharpness, density (allows for closer seating, 4K, 8K++), and also higher acoustical transparency - my assumption would be 1dB improvement on average which might not sound like much but at those higher frequencies making out the "micro detailing" of the sound imagery it´s actually quite significant... Also, it is beneficial that you do D65 correct of each material separately prior to making the final assumption as any color shift (practically none for the V6, it´s within >98% of D65 reference...) in the fabric should be corrected for prior to doing any final comparisons. Also, please remember that acoustical blockage increases as the SPL decreases - by other words - while audio at 90dB would only be dampened by 2dB, the same audio at 70dB would have typically twice as high blockage, and if the blockage @ 90dB is 1-2-3dB higher to begin with, it multiplies going into the more subtle detailing... By other words, the AT is VERY VERY important, and this is also why we are not going "gain bananas", but combine the composition of layers very carefully to optimalise both audio and video. Our patented multiple layer system, whereas the initial layer is randomly woven and the second + third backing layer is knitted, does just that; it allows us to basically replicate the coating of a regular PVC screen (non-AT) while still keeping the AT at reference levels as the knitted fabrics are very AT friendly (but not so much in terms of sharpness).
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post #89 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 10:46 AM
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Would you be willing to send me a sample of the V6? Since it is the front-runner, perhaps a larger sample? I'm willing to pay for it. I'll PM you.



The SMX is significantly brighter than Falcon, Seymour XD, UF, En, Screen Innovations, V5... but in all other areas I've got a real case of upgrade-itis. All that you say below is true.


Sure, but if you are located in the US it would be faster to contact Mike or Craig (we would have to ship all the way from Norway, takes longer...), I'm quite sure they'll be able and happy to get you a sample shipped out quite rapidly!


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post #90 of 93 Old 09-23-2017, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
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Sure, but if you are located in the US it would be faster to contact Mike or Craig (we would have to ship all the way from Norway, takes longer...), I'm quite sure they'll be able and happy to get you a sample shipped out quite rapidly!


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Yeah... I went to your profile to PM you and saw that. Thank you!
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