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post #1 of 31 Old 07-15-2017, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Advice needed for ALR screen

I'm going to be building my frame shortly and need some advice.
Projector Vivitek 1186 ceiling mount 14ft - 14.5ft from screen
Seating distance 13.5 feet. One long couch all seats face the screen wall.
Walls and ceiling are Benjamin more Revere Pewter(Greyish tan).
One big sliding patio door to the right.
One large window under the projector facing the screen wall.
I will get some window and door treatments, but am not looking for a cave.

Currently I'm projecting a 145" screen on to my wall. Picture is really good at night. I really don't want to go smaller than 135".

Not so many options at this size. Due to throw distance, I'm thinking Cinegray 3D or Carl's ALR. Looking for some opinions. Thanks.
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post #2 of 31 Old 07-15-2017, 11:24 AM
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Screen Innovations offers Slate in the size range you are looking for. Seymour AV offers Matinee Silver and Matine Black in the size range you are looking for.
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post #3 of 31 Old 07-15-2017, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. The Manitee screens require 1.9x screen width.

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post #4 of 31 Old 07-19-2017, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Ftoast?
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post #5 of 31 Old 07-19-2017, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccol View Post
Ftoast?
What!..gosh, WHAT!?
Sorry, couldn't stop myself. Also, the "mention" alert feature doesn't seem to be working for some reason.

I don't believe there's a huge performance difference between Slate1.2 and Carl'sALR and EliteCineGrey3D, so I'd definitely lean toward Carl'sALR and the CineGrey3D if building your own frame is an option.

The CineGrey3D Designer Cut Series will usually be the least expensive option for a 135" or smaller screen, but it isn't available at larger sizes as bare material..so if you're building your own at over 135", Carl'sALR is a really good way to go.

If you're aiming for a pre-made frame/screen option, I think Seymour's Silver material might do a solid job at a slightly closer/larger than suggested ~1.5:1 throw, but that would still require a screen-size around 135" or slightly smaller from your farthest throw-range around 14.5ft back.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #6 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
What!..gosh, WHAT!?
Sorry, couldn't stop myself. Also, the "mention" alert feature doesn't seem to be working for some reason.

I don't believe there's a huge performance difference between Slate1.2 and Carl'sALR and EliteCineGrey3D, so I'd definitely lean toward Carl'sALR and the CineGrey3D if building your own frame is an option.

The CineGrey3D Designer Cut Series will usually be the least expensive option for a 135" or smaller screen, but it isn't available at larger sizes as bare material..so if you're building your own at over 135", Carl'sALR is a really good way to go.

If you're aiming for a pre-made frame/screen option, I think Seymour's Silver material might do a solid job at a slightly closer/larger than suggested ~1.5:1 throw, but that would still require a screen-size around 135" or slightly smaller from your farthest throw-range around 14.5ft back.
Hey Ftoast,

I currently have a 135" screen and want to replace it with an ALR screen. If you're suggesting an EliteCineGrey3D over Carl's ALR for a 135" screen (similar performance, cheaper price), then where does the EliteCineGrey5D fit in? If I'd be willing to buy the difference for the more expensive EliteCineGrey5D, will the ALR performance be better?
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post #7 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyM3 View Post
Hey Ftoast,

I currently have a 135" screen and want to replace it with an ALR screen. If you're suggesting an EliteCineGrey3D over Carl's ALR for a 135" screen (similar performance, cheaper price), then where does the EliteCineGrey5D fit in? If I'd be willing to buy the difference for the more expensive EliteCineGrey5D, will the ALR performance be better?
Cinegrey 5D is brighter than 3d, however it's black levels are lighter as well.
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post #8 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by roccol View Post
Ftoast?
Not sure how many opinions you are looking for. I've owned over 90% of all alr screens available. From the cheap stuff like Silver Ticket's silvervalr material to $4,000 high end alr screens. No one has owned more alr screens than me on this forum.
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post #9 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
Not sure how many opinions you are looking for. I've owned over 90% of all alr screens available. From the cheap stuff like Silver Ticket's silvervalr material to $4,000 high end alr screens. No one has owned more alr screens than me on this forum.
I appreciate your IMO very much LumenLover... I just hope you don't sick and tired of my rephrasing similar questions over and over again... lol. I'm planning to upgrade my projector to a new BenQ HT2050 located in my upstairs loft with plenty of ambient light. The projector screen size is about 135", ceiling mounted projector, and a 13'6" throw distance. Would you recommend the Cinegrey3D, 5D, or Carl's ALR?
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post #10 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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^^^ He's kind of an ALR screen testing machine.

Like already mentioned, the CineGrey5D is brighter/higher-gain than the CineGrey3D, but I've also heard from several people that the 5D can hold slightly darker blacks..I'm assuming the black advantage happens as long as the ambient light is mostly hitting the screen from a pretty extreme angle while the lighter/weaker black performance LumensLover mentioned is happening when too much of the ambient light is hitting the screen a bit too close to the incident angle where the screen's gain starts to increase that light rather than fight it.

I believe the 5D also wants a longer throw-ratio to give the same uniformity, and many have mentioned it has a slight texture (the 3D and Carl'sALR are quite smooth), although I haven't heard anyone complaining about the texture being visible from seating-distance..just up close.

With your throw-ratio I think CineGrey3D will look better than CineGrey5D.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #11 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
^^^ He's kind of an ALR screen testing machine.
Lol. Touche Mr. Ftoast.
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post #12 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyM3 View Post
I appreciate your IMO very much LumenLover... I just hope you don't sick and tired of my rephrasing similar questions over and over again... lol. I'm planning to upgrade my projector to a new BenQ HT2050 located in my upstairs loft with plenty of ambient light. The projector screen size is about 135", ceiling mounted projector, and a 13'6" throw distance. Would you recommend the Cinegrey3D, 5D, or Carl's ALR?
Their performance is so close, I would recommend going with the one you can get for the lowest price. Carls grey, Cinegrey 3d, and Slate materials were almost identical to my eyes.

Cinegrey 5D was the brightest out of the bunch, however it did not hold black levels well when light was hitting it from any side angle.
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post #13 of 31 Old 07-20-2017, 07:06 PM
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... the "mention" alert feature doesn't seem to be working for some reason. ...
I believe the mention alert feature is triggered by using @ before the user name, so you should get a mention alert when I post @Ftoast .
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post #14 of 31 Old 07-21-2017, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
Not sure how many opinions you are looking for. I've owned over 90% of all alr screens available. From the cheap stuff like Silver Ticket's silvervalr material to $4,000 high end alr screens. No one has owned more alr screens than me on this forum.
Have you tried something like Stewart Filmscreen Disney Gray? I think I heard it referred to. It is around .4 gain neutral gray without all the angular/retro magic.

Bud
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-03-2017, 08:29 AM
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Thanks Lumenslover and Ftoast for helping me choose the CineGrey3d material - It's arriving today! Yesterday, I built a 135" frame using 1x4 lumber so I hope I have enough material to stretch it over.

The room has a lot of ambient light and I'd like to use it during the day as much as I can. I have a limited budget, but do you guys think I should keep my Optoma HD142x or return it for a Benq HT2050 ($200 more)?

NOTE: The picture below is my old setup - painted screen using Glidden matte white/grey.

Last edited by EazyM3; 08-03-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-03-2017, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyM3 View Post
Thanks Lumenslover and Ftoast for helping me choose the CineGrey3d material - It's arriving today! Yesterday, I built a 135" frame using 1x4 lumber so I hope I have enough material to stretch it over.

The room has a lot of ambient light and I'd like to use it during the day as much as I can. I have a limited budget, but do you guys think I should keep my Optoma HD142x or return it for a Benq HT2050 ($200 more)?

NOTE: The picture below is my old setup - painted screen using Glidden matte white/grey.
The Benq ht2050 has higher real-world contrast, higher full-color brightness, more accurate, vivid, natural colors right out of the box, and Benq tends to have a somewhat better build-quality despite still being a budget projector.
If you can afford the difference, I'd definitely recommend the Benq ht2050, but you'll want to mount it pretty far back at the longer end of its zoom-range around 14.5ft back like you mentioned earlier.

If you can't really afford the ht2050, the cheaper ht1070 loses some of the extra inputs, flexibility and careful venting of the 2050 (it has a similar layout and similar price as the Optoma 142) but it keeps the fantastic real-world color/contrast/brightness of the ht2050.
The ht2050 is worth it if your room is nicely quiet, but if you have the background hum of heat/AC or a fan or fridge etc..the higher fan-noise of the ht1070 shouldn't be a problem and its lack of additional inputs+LensShift are things you'd be putting up with in the Optoma142 anyway.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-06-2017, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Is one material more durable to stretch? Carl's vs Cinegray 3d.
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post #18 of 31 Old 08-07-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccol View Post
Is one material more durable to stretch? Carl's vs Cinegray 3d.
They both handle stretching quite well, but neither likes being poked (dull, shallow pokes can bounce back after a few minutes though). I think they're both made of the same kind of material although I'm mind-blanking on the name.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #19 of 31 Old 08-08-2017, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Ftoast is the actual real gain on these screens similar? I'm under the impression Carl's is higher gain. I was wondering if this would be a plus or minus in my setup. Vivitek 1186
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-09-2017, 11:04 AM
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I've heard one person's comparison where Carl's was higher-gain than CineGrey3D and seen another where CineGrey3D was just a touch higher-gain than Carl's ALR, but most people comparing them mention them being the same, so I'd call them about the same gain with a bit of small variance from batch to batch.
The Vivitek 1186 is a fairly bright full-RGB projector with a long-ish throw-ratio, so I think your planned setup should work really well with either of these screens.

If their prices are too close to push you one way or the other, I'd aim for whichever seller offers a better exchange/return policy if nothing else than to reward the seller that's taking a bigger risk to minimize the buyer's risk.
I haven't heard much positive about Elite, but the CineGrey3D DCS is also sold through Amazon and others which may offer return/exchange for defects.
Carl's is easy to get on the phone and also worth checking about what qualifies for return/exchange if you have any questions.

EDIT: it's also worth noting (if it hasn't already been mentioned) that the CineGrey3D is usually said to be a slightly larger size than the Carl'sALR 135" size...so you'll have a little more material to hold onto while stretching it around your frame. That can be handy.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 08-09-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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post #21 of 31 Old 08-09-2017, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you. Makes perfect sense. I went with the cinegray3d. It was on sale for $95 today.

Last edited by roccol; 08-09-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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post #22 of 31 Old 08-14-2017, 06:04 AM
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Sorry for hijacking this topic, but does anyone know how Elite's Cinegrey 5d compares to Stewart's Grayhawk?

Stewart Phantom HALR would probably be even better but needs a very large throw of 1.8 x screenwidth. Cinegrey also has it's drawbacks since the projection angle needs to be the same as the viewing angle; in a livingroom that means either moving the screen up to a uncomfortable height, or lowering the projector so you hit it with your head...

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post #23 of 31 Old 09-05-2017, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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So I assembled my screen and put it up. Screen is no miracle worker, but for the money offers a good picture and does help with ambient light. I'm wondering if I pulled the screen too tight? I can see the interior edges of my frame showing (one vertical center and the center of the lower frame) as a slight crease on the material. This causes major shadowing problems with the picture. I pulled the material as tight as I could, but there was no tearing or anything like that. What do you think?
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post #24 of 31 Old 09-05-2017, 03:24 PM
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When folks make the frame out of wood it's recommended to sand/router the frame's inside/front edge OR add a shallow, narrow stand-off (often quarter-round trim) around the frame's front near the outer edge...either method is used to avoid having part of the frame (aside from the extreme outer edge) touching or pushing against the screen which can cause a visible line or shadow that's particularly noticeable on ALR screens.

If this sounds like what you're dealing with, I think all the best ways of fixing it involve removing the screen material and modifying the frame to make sure the outer edge of its front sticks out farther forward than any part of the frame that's slightly closer toward the middle front.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-05-2017, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I did sand the entire frame, but routing makes more sense so there are no definied lines. Ugg, my hands wont forgive me.
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post #26 of 31 Old 09-05-2017, 08:02 PM
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If your frame is pretty wide behind the screen (kind of like a giant picture frame instead of giant shadow-box) then it's usually easier to add a thin trim along the front near the outer edge instead of trying to route such a wide area.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #27 of 31 Old 09-11-2017, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I routed out all of the interior edges and sanded them round and smooth. It didn't make a difference. Not sure what I can do at this point.
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post #28 of 31 Old 09-11-2017, 05:41 PM
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Do you happen to have any pictures of the frame after the routing?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #29 of 31 Old 09-11-2017, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Do you happen to have any pictures of the frame after the routing?
No, just a mental picture
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post #30 of 31 Old 09-14-2017, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess when I have some time I will take the screen down and remove some of the fabric and take pictures of the bottom of the frame. I watched every video there is, not sure what more I can do. Maybe I should have used 1 x 3's? Frame is square, flat and is not bowing. Perhaps a giant piece of poster board or two underneath the fabric? Or take screen off and glue 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch strips around the front edge of the screen?

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