Official Optoma Graywolf screen thread. - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 02:16 PM
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I' actually considering this to replace my hi power just because of waves! They are driving me freaking batty . DaLite actually replaced my screen once under warranty, but is refusing to do so again.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #152 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 02:19 PM
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I thought the High-Power was supposed to be about as resistant to waves as a non-tensioned screen can get?

Do you think you will fare any better with this one?

What are you doing, taking Tarzan swings on the thing!?!?!

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post #153 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 02:37 PM
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Nope. It just gets them in a V pattern from the pulldown center out to the top edges. I've got the Model B Hi Power with CSR, and it still waves like crazy .

A tip for those with the white case, get black duvytene (sp?) tape. It's meant for photography work and all. I bought a 25' roll cheap online, and taped it to the underside of my case right up against the screen opening. Completely eliminated the annoying reflections, and looks pretty good.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #154 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 02:44 PM
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madpoet,
I thought the retroreflective properties of the highpower made waves less/invisible when actually viewing video, do you find this to be the case? I have been very close to buying a dalite HP or this optoma, as my matte white dalite has very visible waves now...but if that won't solve the problem, I may have to get more creative.
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post #155 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 02:46 PM
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The Craptacular Freebie ELITE 100" I got with my H31 also has the V waves....if I pull on one of the upper edges of the screen I can eliminate the waves but honestly they dont bother me enough to really care.


*yet*





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post #156 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

Nope. It just gets them in a V pattern from the pulldown center out to the top edges. I've got the Model B Hi Power with CSR, and it still waves like crazy .

A tip for those with the white case, get black duvytene (sp?) tape. It's meant for photography work and all. I bought a 25' roll cheap online, and taped it to the underside of my case right up against the screen opening. Completely eliminated the annoying reflections, and looks pretty good.

My HP screen has the least physical waves I've seen but still I have some. The Cosmo electric has a huge roller which helps. Anyway if you view straight on you won't see waves with video or a blue screen either. Same deal with the Graywolf. If knowing the phyiscal waves are there bothers you, you won't be happy with the Graywolf non-tensioned.

Alot of the problem is the roller, I even tried stuffing pen light batterys at the center case. I did away with the V-waves and turned thme into straight waves. No win situation.

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post #157 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 03:16 PM
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So what do people think of the GrayWolf and a Panny AE700 ? I've been looking to replace my blackout cloth screen, and currently have HP and Graywolf as my first 2 choices and maybe an HCCV as a third. I'd like some extra gain, but I don't know if the HP is too much. I don't know what the 700 actually puts out in lumens vs stated.

The Gray might help the percieved blacks on the 700. Its really hard to tell with the micro-sample I got from Da-lite, but I understand its free Obviously, opinions are welcome. I'd like some small ambient light rejection, but not looking for any miracles.
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post #158 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 03:39 PM
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I think this was asked earlier, but with the numbers growing, I'll ask again.

What do you think of this as a candidate for removing from the case and affixing to a frame? Is the backing too thick for wrapping around a frame?
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post #159 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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The Graywolf would help the Pany out greatly. Your black level will be much better, colors will be deeper. For your projector I'd choose it over the HP material. Not sure the HCCV material in non-tensioned will be free of waves with video on it. If it's not retro-reflective you'll be seeing waves with your video.

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post #160 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chengka View Post

I think this was asked earlier, but with the numbers growing, I'll ask again.

What do you think of this as a candidate for removing from the case and affixing to a frame? Is the backing too thick for wrapping around a frame?

It's a thicker material than my HP and Mat White but it's plenty flexible. How do you plan to attach it to the frame?

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post #161 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

It is the percentage difference that matters here, as you found with the half gain.

With 6.5' up from the floor and 12' back I get around 14 degrees off angle. Here is how I calculated that.

6.5' is 78". Assuming that the viewer's eyes are at 42", this is a difference of 36".

12' is 144". Draw a right triangle with 144" across the bottom and 36" for the height. The tangent of an angle is the opposite length over the adjacent length. In this case 36/144 = 0.25. Bring up the calculator in Windows under Start-Accesories and put in Scientific mode under View. Put in .25, click the Inv box, then hit the tan button. The result is 14 degrees. And 14 degrees would be a little under .7 gain for the table here if 1.4 is the peak gain.

--Darin

Darin,
I am wondering how this number would change across the vertical height of the screen? A 92" screen is 45" high. With the top at or about 68", the center of the screen would be at 45.5" That would put the center of the screen at 1.2degrees off axis to the viewer. But, the light striking the center of the screen is at a 8.9 degree angle from the lense. Does that mean it leaves the screen at the same 8.9 degree downward reflecting 1.8 gain at 22.5" lower still? This may be overdoing it, but I'm curious as to the effects across the screen. We always talk as if the screen is a point, but it is a very large surface given the distances involved. Is the gain significantly different across it's surface? Is the perceived gain worse still at the center of the screen, given the scenario described?
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post #162 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

It's a thicker material than my HP and Mat White but it's plenty flexible. How do you plan to attach it to the frame?

I fancy staples, probably to the side or back of the frame. I'd lose the built in matting, but I could add that easily enough.
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post #163 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 06:47 PM
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A minor miracle happened today. The UPS guy drove up indicating he had 3 packages for me. I had expected the projector (PE7700) to arrive but surprise, surprise, the 92" graywolf screen arrived as well as a HDMI cable from RAM. Nice to have everything come at the same time.

I had previously ordered the screen from Buy.com but like others received the wrong screen. With some intrepedation, I then ordered the graywolf screen from BHphotovideo and it came as ordered. Looking forward to seeing how the PE7700/graywolf perform together.
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post #164 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 07:33 PM
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Quote:

I ordered it using the link in this post from Audionuttin this thread. I just clicked on it and it is showing Gray Wolfs in stock.
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post #165 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 09:37 PM
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I went and ordered from Buy.com but thought I would let people know that I talked to BB.com and they confirmed that both the 92" and the 106" screens are labeled Graywolf in thier online order form. I'll let you know how my Buy.com order goes.
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post #166 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 09:58 PM
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I just ordered from buy.com as well. The price was too good to pass up. If I receive the correct screen from them I'll just return the one I paid retail for to BB and enjoy the new one It said the 106 is on order btw.

Also, I had a few updates on the screen to add to my previous tome of comments:

1) I was originally going to post a more negative thought about the texture on the screen. I have, however, already become more used to it than before after several days of viewing.
2) There is one glass bead (yes just one itty bitty teeny tiny one) that makes a flaring bright spot less than the size of a pixel (I cannot stress how tiny it is), but only when viewed from the far left seat in my setup. It doesn't bother me much, but it's there for that one seat. I doubt anyone else *not from an a/v forum* would ever notice.
3) It is a PITA to retract this screen if the top casing is not secured well. I had to yank and pull about a million times to get it to work since mine is hanging from chains in the ceiling. When my g/f came downstairs and held the top case in place it worked smoothly and just fine. Keep that in mind so you don't beat the hell out of the screen like I did in frustration.
4) I can see one or two minor waves in the screen, but they are hidden by images - unless there is a horizontal pan like in the text on the HQV test disk. I can see the subtle bend, but it isn't bad. Just wanted to make a note that waves can exist in the screen. It would benefit from being tensioned, but it would be a minor improvement and not normally noticeable.
5) I had a group of people over this weekend, and several are interested in HT in at least a cursory manner. A few asked how much the screen cost and gasped when I told them three-hundred. They were impressed.

I think I had other things to say, but it's getting late and I'm forgetful. Time to go read harry potter.

- Jon
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post #167 of 1914 Old 07-19-2005, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good John, yes the list is low but I'm very surprised at the deal level these are going for. I hope AVS picks up on them with similar so we can get the better service to boot.

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post #168 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

My HP screen has the least physical waves I've seen but still I have some. The Cosmo electric has a huge roller which helps. Anyway if you view straight on you won't see waves with video or a blue screen either. Same deal with the Graywolf. If knowing the phyiscal waves are there bothers you, you won't be happy with the Graywolf non-tensioned.

Alot of the problem is the roller, I even tried stuffing pen light batterys at the center case. I did away with the V-waves and turned thme into straight waves. No win situation.


I agree, straight on no waves. If I go slightly off axis though they become all too noticeable to me. If the Greywolf is the same, then I'm going to have to pass .

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #169 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Sounds good John, yes the list is low but I'm very surprised at the deal level these are going for. I hope AVS picks up on them with similar so we can get the better service to boot.

That and I wouldn't mind a 120" wide (horizontal- 130" in 2.35 to one) variant.

106" is a bit smaller than I'd like

dB
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post #170 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

I agree, straight on no waves. If I go slightly off axis though they become all too noticeable to me. If the Greywolf is the same, then I'm going to have to pass .

Yes if you look at the screen from a side angle you can see wave shadows with video.

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post #171 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 11:28 AM
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Thanks Tom. Someday I'll convince the wife to let me redo the basement and have a fixed screen

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #172 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 12:55 PM
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I'd love a 120 incher, thats probably my perfect size...but for that size screen I'd need a PJ with lens-shift of some sort.

I'm tempted to order this screen if Toms giving it the thumbs up of pproval, and the price is right, but now I'm afraid of getting the wrong one in the mail!

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post #173 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 03:15 PM
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Good news, B&H had the correct screen drop-shipped. My wife just called to tell me the screen arrived. The carton is labeled Graywolf, and the casing is white. This is a minor miracle given that B&H assured me I would be getting a Graywolf with a black case, which we know doesn't exist.

I'll be spending all night at my son's basketball game and won't be able to check it out. Should be able to post my opinions tomorrow.

Steve
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post #174 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 03:38 PM
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no one has answered the cleaning question- How does optoma recommend one clean the graywolf? That was one advantage the HP has, you can wash it (vs dalite's regular glass bead screen, where washing rubs off the beads...)
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post #175 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 05:08 PM
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Batorok, the manual available on-line recommends using a "very soft duster brush gently to remove foreign particles."

Steve
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post #176 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 06:58 PM
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Lets keep thinking of ideas on how to get it mounted in a frame. I have a plexiglas screen that I painted, could this screen be glued to the plexiglas?
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post #177 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 08:09 PM
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Well I opened up the carton and there are about a 1/2 dozen dents in the case -- two of which are rather significant. Oddly, the shipping carton doesn't look bad at all. This one's going back.

I did pull out the screen to have a loock at the material. This is one very gray gray screen. Nothing at all like the sample of Dalite's HCMW screen.

Steve
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post #178 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 08:18 PM
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HT cOz - I don't see why not; you could use aerosol contact cement to attach it to the plexiglass. What sort of frame do you have for the plexi? What size?

Randy
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post #179 of 1914 Old 07-20-2005, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

What made you see peak gain at 1.4 instead of 1.8? How about the HP material, isn't it higher than the stated 2.8? 3.2 I read posted here somewhere.

I think the High Power is somewhere in the 3.2-3.4 range right at the light source. I did measurements from different angles with the High Power and GrayWolf and that is where I got a multiplier of something like .43 between the two. This put the peak gain for the GrayWolf around 1.4. I wouldn't worry about the specs so much as they also say that the GrayWolf has a 100 degree viewing cone. I believe that the viewing cone is supposed to be inside the half gain angle, which means it is more like 25 degrees according to the data I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Trying to figure a way to use the light meter to judge actual screen gain? Just ran this test to see differences in off screen level. I'll get a 2.00ftcandle read with the Graywolf, 3.0ftc with a mat white and 4.00 with high power. These are taken close up to the screen sensor facing the screen.

I'm not sure what to make of those since you got a .5 multiplier from the HP to the GW if those are right, but would also indicate only 1.5 gain for the HP and .67 for the GW (based off the matte white).

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I just took a viewing area reading using the HP screen and got 1.8ftc at lens level and 1.0ftc at viewing level. Which is what I got the last time I checked. I figure the dropoff off .08 which is less than half, puts the HP screen with a ceiling mount at 1.7gain, that's if the true gain is 2.8.

What you say "at lens level" do you mean that you are about as close to the lens as you can reasonably get, or that you are off to the side? If off to the side then you wouldn't get the peak gain since the horizontal angle matters also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chengka View Post

I am wondering how this number would change across the vertical height of the screen? A 92" screen is 45" high. With the top at or about 68", the center of the screen would be at 45.5" That would put the center of the screen at 1.2degrees off axis to the viewer. But, the light striking the center of the screen is at a 8.9 degree angle from the lense. Does that mean it leaves the screen at the same 8.9 degree downward reflecting 1.8 gain at 22.5" lower still? This may be overdoing it, but I'm curious as to the effects across the screen. We always talk as if the screen is a point, but it is a very large surface given the distances involved. Is the gain significantly different across it's surface? Is the perceived gain worse still at the center of the screen, given the scenario described?

You are right that the gain won't be exactly the same over the whole screen. This goes into hotspotting and unformity though. The uniformity with this will generally be better if the projector is about the same distance from the screen as the viewers. For a viewer sitting just underneath the lens, the angle that matters for determining the gain is the same for the spot at the same height as the viewer's eyes as it is for the spot at the same height as the projector lens. It would be easier to draw the two triangles and show that the angles are the same than to do it here though. Also, once you start looking at the horizontal offset you will see that the angles are somewhat different at different points across the screen, so different gains. However, if the projector is at the same distance from the screen then the images should be a lot more uniform than with a high gain angular-reflective screen (which is most other high gain screens). The reason is that in that case the angles used are from the reflection out to the sides and the line from the viewer to the screen, so the center of the screen should be brighter than the far sides in that case. With a retro-reflective screen the angles used for the center of the screen and the edges aren't a lot different if the projector is about the same distance from the screen as the viewer is. Move the projetor a lot closer or a lot further away with a retro-reflective screen and that no longer becomes the case though.

I hope at least some of that makes sense.

--Darin

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post #180 of 1914 Old 07-21-2005, 08:37 AM
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Well, I received my screen from Amazon yesterday -- or should I say, someone else's screen? (Because that's whose its going to be some day...) They sent me the white panoview (black case) as well... I think I'll put up the two screws to hang it (grr.. they had to have the keyhole brackets be 98+" apart, instead of 96"..) So I'll see how it looks (though looks very similar to my Parkland Plastics sheet at first glance). Then I'll be sending it back, and probably ordering from B&H as others have had success there...
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