The Official Stewart Film Screen thread. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 11-25-2006, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clrv View Post

Here use this it will get you some basic info.

Good resource!
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Old 11-26-2006, 01:43 AM
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Well since nne LCOS-D-ILA´s main drawbacks is low ANSI contrast, and a grey screen is mostly for increasing ANSI contrast, won´t the firehawk be a nice fit?

It´s still a ? how good the ASNI is on the JVC.

Birgir "keyser"
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:27 PM
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My viewing cone is just too little with the FireHawk G1. I'm thinking about purchasing the Studiotek 130 G3 material instead and use on my Luxus Deluxe 92" Screenwall frame.

I have come to understand that I'm sensitive to the half gain angle spec. Now when looking at the spec for ST130 there are different values on the Stewart website, 30 degrees and 40 degrees with half gain.

Which one is it and is there a history with improvement on this?

If I'm looking for ultimate fidelity is there one with wider viewing cone?
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:45 AM
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I am thinking about purchasing a Luxus Model A ElectriScreen which will drop through a suspended ceiling. My issue is I have a maximum of about 94" inches for the screen to drop down. Does anyone have an idea the maximum screen size (16x9) I could get for that maximum opening width?

Thanks...

-jeremy
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Old 12-05-2006, 06:11 PM
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With 94" maximum drop, your limitation will more likely be budget rather than size:

with the regular 12" drop (black area over the image) and the usual 1" batten (probably larger at this width) you're looking at an image size of roughly 80" by 142" or just over 6 feet tall and almost 12 feet wide- that's a big picture. A screen of that size would probably retail for more than 5k, probably in the 6-7k retail range (my Screen Assistant software isn't up-to-date.)

Now if you're talking about 94" wide, then the screen would probably be in the 3-4k range, with an image size of roughly 92" diagonal.

Dan

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Old 12-05-2006, 07:13 PM
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Yes I apologize, I meant that I have 94" of width for the screen to fit in, it was pretty late when I was writing that email! I was hoping I could get something larger than 92" but it looks like thats going to be my max. Maybe the wife would let me do a little modification to the soffit that is restricting my size...

-jeremy
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:27 PM
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Hi Jeremy,

In the specs I received from the Australian Stewart distributor they indicate that the black panel on each side (including the tab tensioning system) has to be a minimum of 127mm wide (that is 5" on each side). From the diagrams it seems that the bottom batten has to extend at least 1" past the bottom edge of the screen.

So, with 94" of width available, my calculations are that your viewable screen width would be 94 - (5*2) - (1*2) = 82". If you are fitting this into a soffit, remember that the case will be wider than the screen material and batten. You'll have to contact a Stewart dealer for exact sizes.

Richard

PS These statements are based on my interpretation of diagrams. I make no guarantee that they are perfectly accurate. (On the other hand I was only 2mm off on my own screen size calculations).

Richard Thomas
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:03 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the info! I have already gotten the case dimensions so I should be all set. One more question for everyone, I am thinking about having the Firehawk G3 microperfed. Does anyone have any positive or negative experiences doing this? I was going to place the speaker almost 5 feet behind the screen due to a challenging room layout. Any issues with this?

Thanks...

-jeremy
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Old 12-06-2006, 02:58 PM
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Both of my Stewart screens are Microperfed, I have no problems at all with them. Stewart now adjusts the angle of orientation of the perforations depending on the projector used and the screen size/projection distance (called Microperf X2). So when you finally pull the trigger on the screen- make sure you use a reputable Stewart dealer to get the most diligent service.

As far as having the speaker 5 feet from the screen....well, there's a good side and a bad side to that: the inherent comb-filtering that happens when a speaker is placed behind an AT screen will begin at a much lower frequency than normal (distance from speaker to screen corresponds to specific wavelengths, the farther the distance, the lower frequencies are affected) BUT! by doing this, the sound that comes through the screen will be much less localizable (not sure if that's a real word) because of the natural dispersion patern of the speaker. So caveat emptor. Without question, contact Stewart and talk to one of their screen specialists.

Dan

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Old 12-06-2006, 04:44 PM
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I have read a little about the downsides of perf'd screens but can you explain a little more about this to me...in more laymens terms? I am not much of an audio buff...I just want my home theater to look and sound as good as it costs...
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerm7861 View Post

I have read a little about the downsides of perf'd screens but can you explain a little more about this to me...in more laymens terms? I am not much of an audio buff...I just want my home theater to look and sound as good as it costs...

I think the decision to get a perf'd screen has a lot to do with the size of the image you want to project. If you have a small screen, say 60" wide or less, you'll have plenty of room to put your speakers above or below your screen.

A friend of mine has an 80" wide screen and only about 3 ft between the bottom of the screen and his floor. So he puts his center speaker below the screen (almost on the floor), but his side speakers are about 3 ft higher (tower speakers) and when the sound moves across the screen you can actually hear the 'acoustic image' shift. It's annoying and ruins the suspended disbelief you're supposed to have during a movie.

In laymans terms - the real negatives of perf'd screens are image distortions and high end frequency drop off. Stewart and Screen Research have all but eliminated this problem. Stewarts "randomized" perforated holes take care of the image issues most perf screens have, and their outboard equalizer deals with the high end dropoff. Screen Research is a woven screen, so the fabric actually lets the sound through and the weave pattern does not create image problems.

I've heard people say they can still see problems in both screens, but those people are very rare. I wouldn't even consider buying an acoustically transparent screen from any other companies.

--SimpleTheater

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:40 AM
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Finally got my Stewart 110" Firehawk G3 mounted last night (Thanks Jason for the great deal and great service) and I have to say I am very impressed with this screen. Much better than my elitescreens tab tension electric screen, especially with ambient light. I really didn't want to come in to work today because I wanted to play with my new toys but thats life. I'm using the screen with a Infocus IN76 projector sitting exactly fifteen feet away from the screen. Absolutly no hotspotting at all.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I think the decision to get a perf'd screen has a lot to do with the size of the image you want to project. If you have a small screen, say 60" wide or less, you'll have plenty of room to put your speakers above or below your screen.

A friend of mine has an 80" wide screen and only about 3 ft between the bottom of the screen and his floor. So he puts his center speaker below the screen (almost on the floor), but his side speakers are about 3 ft higher (tower speakers) and when the sound moves across the screen you can actually hear the 'acoustic image' shift. It's annoying and ruins the suspended disbelief you're supposed to have during a movie.

--SimpleTheater

The best is to have left and right channels that have a wide sweet spot so that you don't need a center channel. The sound images completely naturally on the screen, and with perfect pans as well, not a "dot" of sound below, behind, or above the screen. You aslo get the best image since you don't have to use a perf screen.
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:45 AM
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Hi Mark....I would like to thank you and Stewart for your participation here.....the info in this thread is priceless.

Here is my current situation. I have a Luxus screen 96x54 with the original Firehawk. the room has total light control....walls and ceilings are very dark burgundy with a dark brown carpet. PJ is ceiling mounted.Room is 24x13x8ft.

I have just recently upgraded to a Marantz VP11-S1. The picture on the Firehawk looks gorgeous however I'm always looking for that "extra" little room for improvement. The projector has gobs of contrast so it doesn't need the help of the screen. I am seriously considering the Studioteck....I would expect to see something with even more punch and even better color and a brighter image.

What would be your opinion on this....have you folks tried this combo?

Thanks
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

The best is to have left and right channels that have a wide sweet spot so that you don't need a center channel. The sound images completely naturally on the screen, and with perfect pans as well, not a "dot" of sound below, behind, or above the screen. You aslo get the best image since you don't have to use a perf screen.

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but are you recommending NOT using a center channel?

If so, how do you re-mix the center channel to get to your L/R channels.

I'm being as polite as possible because this sounds like insanity to me. Even if you could get the dialogue to image properly, it would only be true for the person sitting in the exact middle of the two speakers - what about everyone else?

I'll stick with my perf screen, thank you very much.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik Rasmussen View Post

My viewing cone is just too little with the FireHawk G1. I'm thinking about purchasing the Studiotek 130 G3 material instead and use on my Luxus Deluxe 92" Screenwall frame.

I have come to understand that I'm sensitive to the half gain angle spec. Now when looking at the spec for ST130 there are different values on the Stewart website, 30 degrees and 40 degrees with half gain.

Which one is it and is there a history with improvement on this?

If I'm looking for ultimate fidelity is there one with wider viewing cone?

Today when I checked the Stewart site on ST130 G3, the page quote 75 degrees @half gain. They also adjusted Firehawk G3 to 30 degrees @half gain.

I had the chance to compare the ST130 G3 and Firehawk G3 and the former is alot more wide area viewing so their new numbers seem to add up
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:45 PM
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Well, it looks like Stewart's new web site is mostly working. I just have one rant.... It's a great advertisement but, where is all the documentation you used to have for each model? Take a look at Dalites site, click on a model and you have the following documents:

Product Information
Parts List
Installation
Specification Sheet
Pricing Sheet
CAD Drawing
Brochure

You guys just have a two page info sheet under each model. Come on Stewart, I don't want to go running to my dealer every time I want to look at an owners manual or install instruction. Your documentation never was the most consistent, but it was better than non-existent. You need to make a consistent set of documentation for each product, place it under a proper configuration management system (to keep it up to date), and make it easily accessible from the web site.

Human perception is not a direct consequence of reality, but rather an act of imagination. - Michael Faraday
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:23 AM
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Hello

I'm planning to buy Sharp XV-Z21000, and want 100" diagonal 16:9 screen
What will be best screen for me ? Its not a dedicated theatre but i will be watching movies at night only.
I'm leaning towards Stewart ultramatte 150 or Studiotek 130

any suggestions??

Thanks,

Jhon
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but are you recommending NOT using a center channel?

If so, how do you re-mix the center channel to get to your L/R channels.

I'm being as polite as possible because this sounds like insanity to me. Even if you could get the dialogue to image properly, it would only be true for the person sitting in the exact middle of the two speakers - what about everyone else?

I'll stick with my perf screen, thank you very much.

It's called phantom center, or if using a reciever, it automatically directs the signals to the L&R when you omit the CC. If you read my post I said you would have to use speakers with a wide sweet spot. So, no you would NOT have to sit in the middle of the two speakers, you can sit off axis and the dialog is still locked to the middle of the screen. Real insanity! You can stick with your inferior perfed video and sound, that's fine by me... THAT's insanity.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:59 PM
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Anyone know where to see the new Firehawk SST in action in NYC?
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

It's called phantom center, or if using a reciever, it automatically directs the signals to the L&R when you omit the CC. If you read my post I said you would have to use speakers with a wide sweet spot. So, no you would NOT have to sit in the middle of the two speakers, you can sit off axis and the dialog is still locked to the middle of the screen. Real insanity! You can stick with your inferior perfed video and sound, that's fine by me... THAT's insanity.


It is still a bad ideal to do this unless you are not very critical about your listening.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

It's called phantom center, or if using a reciever, it automatically directs the signals to the L&R when you omit the CC. If you read my post I said you would have to use speakers with a wide sweet spot. So, no you would NOT have to sit in the middle of the two speakers, you can sit off axis and the dialog is still locked to the middle of the screen. Real insanity! You can stick with your inferior perfed video and sound, that's fine by me... THAT's insanity.

I read your post - but still can't believe someone (unless forced to) would opt for a digitally created "phantom" center channel over the real thing. You can EQ a center channel with a Stewart perf screen to near perfection, but your phantom center will always be inferior - and inferior by a large margin.

IMO - your gain in video isn't worth the acoustic loss.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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Old 12-17-2006, 07:22 AM
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Need some advice on my screen selection. I am currently using a Hitachi TX-200 LCD but will be going for a JVC RS-1 or a Sony Pearl in Feb. So I am getting a new screen with this in mind. I need a Ceiling motorise model. Note that I have a plasma behind the drop screen so the material has to be almost opaque (20cm away).

I am sitting about 9 feet from the screen. Projector will be about 10 to 10.5 feet from the screen ceiling mounted. Probably looking at a 82"model unless there is a 85"or something smaller then 92" is possible. Bottom of screen is likely to be about 90-100cm from the ground. Ceiling height is 2.55m. There is no ambient light when movie watching although I like to watch sports with some lights on. The room is more or less painted with biege colour. I am working on installing dark brown curtains on both side walls. They will be drawn to cover from the front to about the middle of the side walls. The front wall is already covered with dark brown curtains. Will work some dark velvet into about the first 4 feets infront of the screen. I cant do much about the light choc coloured walls on the back or that the rest of the ceiling is white. The back half of the side walls after the curtains will also be light beige in colour.

What would be the best screen in my case? the Firehawk G3? Can we ask for a size other then 82"or 92"

Thanks
Oliver
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:49 AM
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Is it possible to adjust the "drop"? I need to have less than the 12"
it comes with if at all possible. Can it be reduced & if so, how? Where
is the adjustment done? I'm aware of the tab tensioning, but would like
to shorten it up , even if only by a few inches.
Thank You!
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:58 AM
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Oliver,

Yes, Stewart can build you a screen in any size you'd like- it takes longer for delivery so you'll want to order it soon. Both screens I have are 72" by 40.5" which is 84" diag. When ordering the screen, the question should be posed to you whether the screen will be mounted in front of a window (does it need opaque material backing?)- in your case, say yes.
As far as the particular screen material is concerned: if the wall opposite the screen is lightly colored, there's not much that even a gray screen can do to prevent a loss in ANSI contrast- because whatever light comes from the screen will reflect right back to it, and "wash-out" the image to some degree. A gray screen WILL improve things if the side walls are lighter, because the reflections would be coming from a more acute angle.
Ultimately, you're going to want to consult with a Stewart screen specialist regarding the particular screen/room/projector combination to determine what your best course of action will be.

jdinsac,
On the left( I think ) side of the screen- or wherever the motor is mounted- there are adjustements for the stops of the screen: they're inteded to fine-tune the screen's movements after installation. Now a couple inches here or there aren't a huge deal, but these are NOT intended to reduce the drop by half, but rather to make sure that the batten doesn't strike something when in the down postition. When ordering the screen from Stewart, the amount of drop can be specified (standard is 12")- and can be as much or as little as the application requires (I think the minimum is 6"). The tab-tensioning is designed to be used in the full-drop position to prevent waves in the screen (the screen substrate will stretch because of uneven force in the vertical vs horizontal axes. So: caveat emptor- you can adjust drop, but be aware of the possiblity of waves. Your "best" option is to remove the motor/screen from the case and send it to Stewart for modificaion.

I hope this helps both of you- and if I've given outdated or mis-information, I hope that Mark pops-up and corrects me. But to the best of my knowledge, this is accurate info for Stewart screens.

Dan

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Old 12-18-2006, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Oliver,


As far as the particular screen material is concerned: if the wall opposite the screen is lightly colored, there's not much that even a gray screen can do to prevent a loss in ANSI contrast- because whatever light comes from the screen will reflect right back to it, and "wash-out" the image to some degree. A gray screen WILL improve things if the side walls are lighter, because the reflections would be coming from a more acute angle.


Dan

Thanks Dan. In order of importance, which wall influence the Ansi contrast more? back wall, ceiling then side wall in this order? I always thought that the back wall does the least as it is furthers away from the screen. Also If a grey screen like FH helps with light reflections that are not in the direction of the projector, Does that mean that we can get away with darkening only the portion at the back wall that is directly facing the screen?

Oliver
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:39 AM
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I know the luxus deluxe is 3.25 inch frame and the luxus is 1.5 inch frame (right?), but what are the other differences? Do they both taper right down to the screen material?

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:05 PM
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I have a 10 feet wide Screenwall Luxus Deluxe with the Studiotek 130 material. I installed this new screen 4 weeks ago and I still see vertical streaks in bright areas (depending on the viewing angle, but they are all over the screen, vertical streaks with about 10 inches space between them). First I thought that this was due to transportation and that the screen will "settle" pretty soon. But now, after 4 weeks and no improvement I'm beginning to doubt it...

Has anybody around here experiences with this nasty issue? Thank you.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:35 PM
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Oliver,

FH is excellent at rejecting amient light for 2 reasons: the first is the titanium color of the screen material, the second-more imortant factor is the 1.25 gain optical coating. That higher-gain means that as the viewer (or light source for that matter) moves away from 90 degress from the screen, the brightness drops rather severely (see Stewart's webside for the gain-angle graphs). So in your situation, the most "problematic" wall is probably the back wall (if your projector is of the light-cannon type). Your second-most problematic surface is going to be your ceiling: darkening the shade of that by say 2 shades will make a drastic improvement.

Toe

The Luxus frame is a 1.5" square and does NOT taper towards the screen- only the 3.25" wide Luxus Deluxe frame tapers toward the screen.

TheLion

Did you attatch the screen material to the frame according to the instuctions? I ask because it seems to me that you attatched the top and bottom snaps, and then the sides.
But don't fret! The problem is solvable: take the screen off the wall, remove the skin (screen material) starting at the top-left corner snap and work in a counter-clockwise manner. Then (in case the room is cool -under 70 degrees farenheit) make sure you have a hair dryer with you (to WARM the screen material). To do this; hold the hair dryer about 1 foot from the screen (on the floor) at the warm-NOT HOT- setting and work over the screen in a back-and-forth motion. You should start to notice that the screen is getting softer. Then, after you've softened the screen a little, reattatch the screen starting agian at the top left corner, and snap them in a counter-clockwise manner. You MAY notice some puckering as you snap the snaps around the screen- that SHOULD work itself out, but if you're having trouble getting the screen to stretch to reach the snaps (probably at the end of the 3rd side and the 4th side)- you can again soften the screen with the hair dryer, and that should help you get the screen snapped.
After this process, you should notice that the screen doesn't show the "streaks". If it's an issue of the screen being a little dirty (the foam wasn't in the tube holding the skin, or the paper that protects the skin wasn't in there because it's a used screen, then you can wipe down the screen with a very mild detergent/water solution (warm). 1 part detergent to 10 parts water.

I hope this helps 'yall.

Dan

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Old 12-18-2006, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Oliver,

FH is excellent at rejecting amient light for 2 reasons: the first is the titanium color of the screen material, the second-more imortant factor is the 1.25 gain optical coating. That higher-gain means that as the viewer (or light source for that matter) moves away from 90 degress from the screen, the brightness drops rather severely (see Stewart's webside for the gain-angle graphs). So in your situation, the most "problematic" wall is probably the back wall (if your projector is of the light-cannon type). Your second-most problematic surface is going to be your ceiling: darkening the shade of that by say 2 shades will make a drastic improvement.

Toe

The Luxus frame is a 1.5" square and does NOT taper towards the screen- only the 3.25" wide Luxus Deluxe frame tapers toward the screen.

TheLion

Did you attatch the screen material to the frame according to the instuctions? I ask because it seems to me that you attatched the top and bottom snaps, and then the sides.
But don't fret! The problem is solvable: take the screen off the wall, remove the skin (screen material) starting at the top-left corner snap and work in a counter-clockwise manner. Then (in case the room is cool -under 70 degrees farenheit) make sure you have a hair dryer with you (to WARM the screen material). To do this; hold the hair dryer about 1 foot from the screen (on the floor) at the warm-NOT HOT- setting and work over the screen in a back-and-forth motion. You should start to notice that the screen is getting softer. Then, after you've softened the screen a little, reattatch the screen starting agian at the top left corner, and snap them in a counter-clockwise manner. You MAY notice some puckering as you snap the snaps around the screen- that SHOULD work itself out, but if you're having trouble getting the screen to stretch to reach the snaps (probably at the end of the 3rd side and the 4th side)- you can again soften the screen with the hair dryer, and that should help you get the screen snapped.
After this process, you should notice that the screen doesn't show the "streaks". If it's an issue of the screen being a little dirty (the foam wasn't in the tube holding the skin, or the paper that protects the skin wasn't in there because it's a used screen, then you can wipe down the screen with a very mild detergent/water solution (warm). 1 part detergent to 10 parts water.

I hope this helps 'yall.

Dan

Dan,

thank you very much for the advice.

But actually I did install it by attaching the sides first - after that the top and finally the bottom. Does going through your procedure still promise any success?

The issue sure isn't "dirt related" - the screen is brand new, foam and paper where both in the tube protecting the skin and the streaks are actually much brighter than the rest of the screen - therefor anything but dirty...

Dan,

about another subject and I'm sure this has been asked a several times before:

Does Stewart plan to introduce a real high gain (~2.8) screen material solution comparable and in direct competition to the Dalite High Power skin? I saw the HP the other day and I just fell in love with it. If Stewart would offer such a solution (enabling large screen sizes with todays modest light output digital mainstream projectors like my 1080p 1-chip DLP) I (and MANY others for that matter) would exchange my Studiotek skin (even if it was streakfree ) in a heartbeat. Why is it that Stewart doesn't touch this (booming!) part of the market?
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Projection Screens , Stewart Firehawk G3
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