The Official Stewart Film Screen thread. - Page 47 - AVS Forum
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post #1381 of 1935 Old 02-25-2012, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

David Shapiro. What is your throw using full scope width. You need a long throw to avoide hot spotting with high gain screens and 1.7 is a compromise for 2D in order to boost 3D brightness.

Right now, 1.8. The first row of seats is 15 feet from the screen. I also want to move the screen closer to the seats, but I do have some real estate on the ceiling to play around with.

David

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post #1382 of 1935 Old 02-26-2012, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Hi Rich. She had seen the Sony before on my 130 but not on the Snomat. My 130 was GII also not GII. The picture was a tad dimmer to my eyes but not a huge drop and I could easily negate it with menu settings (opening the iris up).

The biggest difference was the absolute light uniformity accross the screen and a complete absence of texture. The screen material just was gone.

Thanks Mark.

One more thing: I know your room is a "bat cave" but I'm not sure whether you used paint to make it dark or dark fabric. What I'm wondering is, did you notice any visual increase in the amount of light thrown off your ST-100 to the surrounding ceiling/walls, vs your ST-130?

Apparently one is supposed to expect this, given the ST-100's wider reflective pattern, hence you may see ceilings/walls lighting up more than with the ST-130. Was that the case?

Also, did you note any difference (good or bad) in terms of apparent image contrast or detail with the ST-100 over the ST-130? Supposedly the lack of light scatter is purported to allow a tighter image and better contrast, though I don't know how perceptible this would be (and would obviously depend on room conditions).

(I'm trying to make the area around the screen as invisible as possible - hence surrounding it with black velvet). Since you are really the only person with an ST-100, especially having just replaced your ST-130, you are about my only source of insight on this screen. (And your posts are getting me serious about purchasing the ST-100).

Thanks,

Rich H


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post #1383 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 05:20 AM
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R Harkness, did your above question get anwered via pm? I also wondered about the ST100 light scatter on walls/ceiling vs the ST130.
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post #1384 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

R Harkness, did your above question get anwered via pm? I also wondered about the ST100 light scatter on walls/ceiling vs the ST130.

Mark didn't reply directly to me about that, but he did mention it to someone else in the Sony 1000 thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21707107

Quote:

"The Snomatt is not to be used in a less than black pit room. It has a gain of one and sprays light all over the place. My black everything sucks it up killing all reflections. yYou can see a lot more of the black fabric on the walls with the Snomatt vs the Studeotec 130. "

That "light spray" is what concerns me, because I'm trying to make the area around the screen as invisible as possible with velvet. I can achieve this with my ST-130 screen (using Fidelio black velvet, everything around the screen disappears).

I'm confused by what Mark wrote because on one hand he says his black velvet "sucks it up killing all reflections" but on the other says "You can see a lot more of the black fabric on the walls with the Snomatt"...which seems to indicate the opposite.

Rich H


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post #1385 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 08:16 AM
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I don't know Mark's theater space, but it's not unusual to use velvet on the front wall around the screen and some other black fabric like Guildford of Maine, on the side walls.

They could have different light absorbing properties.

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post #1386 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Mark didn't reply directly to me about that, but he did mention it to someone else in the Sony 1000 thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21707107

Quote:

"The Snomatt is not to be used in a less than black pit room. It has a gain of one and sprays light all over the place. My black everything sucks it up killing all reflections. yYou can see a lot more of the black fabric on the walls with the Snomatt vs the Studeotec 130. "

That "light spray" is what concerns me, because I'm trying to make the area around the screen as invisible as possible with velvet. I can achieve this with my ST-130 screen (using Fidelio black velvet, everything around the screen disappears).

I'm confused by what Mark wrote because on one hand he says his black velvet "sucks it up killing all reflections" but on the other says "You can see a lot more of the black fabric on the walls with the Snomatt"...which seems to indicate the opposite.

Not Mark, but I believe what he means is the viewing angle is greater with the Snomatt, therefore the light scatter is greater on the surrounding walls. If you do not have a lot of dark non reflective materials on the walls, that light will get bounced right back on to the screen, washing out the image. Mark can see that more light hits the black velvet, but a lot of it does not make it back to the screen since it is hitting black velvet rather than a reflective wall surface.

Like everything else in HT wide viewing angle has its compromise and that is light scatter and usually lower gain.

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post #1387 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 09:54 AM
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Hi,

I am in the process of purchasing this screen. It is being sold as a Firehawk G3 but I suspect it is an earlier version. I have attached some pictures so if anyone can help identify it I would appreciate it.

If it is an earlier Firehawk or Firehawk G2 how would it compare to the G3?

Thanks
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post #1388 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Not Mark, but I believe what he means is the viewing angle is greater with the Snomatt, therefore the light scatter is greater on the surrounding walls. If you do not have a lot of dark non reflective materials on the walls, that light will get bounced right back on to the screen, washing out the image. Mark can see that more light hits the black velvet, but a lot of it does not make it back to the screen since it is hitting black velvet rather than a reflective wall surface.

Like everything else in HT wide viewing angle has its compromise and that is light scatter and usually lower gain.

Yes, I do get that. My issue is that my motivation for using velvet around my screen (which I do) is not only to reduce light reflections back to the screen, but to produce a pitch black surrounding for the image, so my eyes see only the image. At the moment I have this. My L/C/R speakers are very close to the screen surface, but covered with very dark Fidelio black velvet, the are pitch black and invisible, even in bright scenes. A screen that somehow lit up that black velvet enough to make it visible would be a bit of a backward step for me in that regard.

That's why I'm interested in the "sucks up all the light" but "I can see much more light on the black fabric" comments. Because if he sees his black fabric lighting up that much more, then it's not actually sucking up all the light (including reflections).

I guess I don't know what kind of material Mark has used near his screen. Perhaps it's not a super dark material, like the Fidelio velvet I use.

The problem is, the amount of additional light scatter and it's effects on the visibility of nearby surfaces is likely something I'll never be able to know, until I've spent all the money buying and putting up the screen.

Rich H


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post #1389 of 1935 Old 03-01-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Yes, I do get that. My issue is that my motivation for using velvet around my screen (which I do) is not only to reduce light reflections back to the screen, but to produce a pitch black surrounding for the image, so my eyes see only the image. At the moment I have this. My L/C/R speakers are very close to the screen surface, but covered with very dark Fidelio black velvet, the are pitch black and invisible, even in bright scenes. A screen that somehow lit up that black velvet enough to make it visible would be a bit of a backward step for me in that regard.

That's why I'm interested in the "sucks up all the light" but "I can see much more light on the black fabric" comments. Because if he sees his black fabric lighting up that much more, then it's not actually sucking up all the light (including reflections).

I guess I don't know what kind of material Mark has used near his screen. Perhaps it's not a super dark material, like the Fidelio velvet I use.

The problem is, the amount of additional light scatter and it's effects on the visibility of nearby surfaces is likely something I'll never be able to know, until I've spent all the money buying and putting up the screen.

I suspect it is the cream white chairs that he has.

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post #1390 of 1935 Old 03-04-2012, 05:32 AM
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Guys,

I am going to purchase a masquerade cih and a ST130 stewart screen.
I have talked to Rex from Carada and he said to me that the best frame/installation would be something that leave the screen 2 inches max from the wall, and use the wrap-around method.

I could take a Luxus Deluxe, but the frame would be hidden inside the Mascarade and increase the gap and the chance for some shadows.

The Luxus frame is 1 1/2 inches, I dont know how much it would increase with a wrap-around method.

If I could purchase only the fabric, I could make an aluminum frame that would meet the requirements from Carada.

Any thoughs?

[]s Humberto
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post #1391 of 1935 Old 03-04-2012, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kabrumbs View Post

Guys,

I am going to purchase a masquerade cih and a ST130 stewart screen.
I have talked to Rex from Carada and he said to me that the best frame/installation would be something that leave the screen 2 inches max from the wall, and use the wrap-around method.

I could take a Luxus Deluxe, but the frame would be hidden inside the Mascarade and increase the gap and the chance for some shadows.

The Luxus frame is 1 1/2 inches, I dont know how much it would increase with a wrap-around method.

If I could purchase only the fabric, I could make an aluminum frame that would meet the requirements from Carada.

Any thoughs?

[]s Humberto

Nice masking system. I think Stewart will sell only fabric if you ask. I first had a Firehawk installed on my Luxus Deluxe frame but then decided on the ST130 because I had good light control. I was able to get just the ST130 material with snaps to match the existing frame. The Firehawk is now rolled up in its original tube in case I want to sell. My screen is 137" 2.4:1. So I'm sure they could do same without the snaps. However, the screen is stretchy and requires precise contact points to avoid any sagging or rippling. Its very taught when mounted to frame. I wonder if they could provide the frame snaps with a map of their mounting positions. Just a thought. It would certainly be difficult without the snaps.


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post #1392 of 1935 Old 03-05-2012, 06:43 AM
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I see that they have a lace and grommet installation system. It is easier to do a diy frame install with those.

If they worked like the Seymour Center Stage, i have all the planning ready!!!
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post #1393 of 1935 Old 03-05-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Yes, I do get that. My issue is that my motivation for using velvet around my screen (which I do) is not only to reduce light reflections back to the screen, but to produce a pitch black surrounding for the image, so my eyes see only the image. At the moment I have this. My L/C/R speakers are very close to the screen surface, but covered with very dark Fidelio black velvet, the are pitch black and invisible, even in bright scenes. A screen that somehow lit up that black velvet enough to make it visible would be a bit of a backward step for me in that regard.

That's why I'm interested in the "sucks up all the light" but "I can see much more light on the black fabric" comments. Because if he sees his black fabric lighting up that much more, then it's not actually sucking up all the light (including reflections).

I guess I don't know what kind of material Mark has used near his screen. Perhaps it's not a super dark material, like the Fidelio velvet I use.

The problem is, the amount of additional light scatter and it's effects on the visibility of nearby surfaces is likely something I'll never be able to know, until I've spent all the money buying and putting up the screen.

My mains are very close to my screen and half of my mains stick past the front edge of my screen. In very bright scenes you could see the side of my speakers slightly, so I also covered my mains with black velvet. My sound panels have flat black cloth also. With this and my masking system, you see nothing but the image when watching a movie. So I understand excatly what you are talking about. My screen is Enlightor 4K. It is a low gain screen that does spread the light, but I am still able to maintain the look of nothing but image. I think with your setup, you will be able to do the same thing with the Stewart 100.

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post #1394 of 1935 Old 03-05-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabrumbs View Post

I see that they have a lace and grommet installation system. It is easier to do a diy frame install with those.

If they worked like the Seymour Center Stage, i have all the planning ready!!!

The screens for the CineW are lace and grommet. So if you ordered a screen to fit a CineW you'd have a grommeted screen. I have ordered one like that for a customer of mine who had a particular masking system they wanted to keep but wanted to retrofit a Stewart material. However, I'd be extreemely careful about how much tension is applied. It does not work like the Seymour screen. There isn't much tension with their "lace" system. Too little, it will sag, too much it will stretch it and ruin it. Some dealers may be able to help you with the details and recommendations for your DIY frame.


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post #1395 of 1935 Old 03-05-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

My mains are very close to my screen and half of my mains stick past the front edge of my screen. In very bright scenes you could see the side of my speakers slightly, so I also covered my mains with black velvet. My sound panels have flat black cloth also. With this and my masking system, you see nothing but the image when watching a movie. So I understand excatly what you are talking about. My screen is Enlightor 4K. It is a low gain screen that does spread the light, but I am still able to maintain the look of nothing but image. I think with your setup, you will be able to do the same thing with the Stewart 100.

Thank you. That's very helpful.

Rich H


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post #1396 of 1935 Old 03-05-2012, 03:51 PM
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Not allowed to discuss street pricing on forum. I'd guess about 50% of complete CineW screen, if that's what you are asking


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post #1397 of 1935 Old 03-06-2012, 04:10 PM
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Thanks a lot GetGray.. It seems to me that the best way is to use a standard luxus frame with wraparound, and if turns out to be more than 2 inches alo will try to increase the depth of the masquerade.
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post #1398 of 1935 Old 03-06-2012, 05:57 PM
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You are welcome. FYI, I gut got a dealer announcement from Stewart today for a substantial sale they are having on their quick ship models. Sale ends March 31st. See your preferred Stewart dealer or Jason/Mike at AVS, might get a little better than normal price if you have a common size. I skimmed back quickly in the thread and didn't see you size mentioned.

Cheers,
Scott


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post #1399 of 1935 Old 03-07-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinimin View Post

Hi,

I am in the process of purchasing this screen. It is being sold as a Firehawk G3 but I suspect it is an earlier version. I have attached some pictures so if anyone can help identify it I would appreciate it.

If it is an earlier Firehawk or Firehawk G2 how would it compare to the G3?

Thanks

With the model and serial number shown in picture 1, you should simply call Stewart and ask. That's the only way to be absolutely certain.

Good Viewing,
John G

 

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post #1400 of 1935 Old 03-07-2012, 10:13 AM
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Thanks again!!! Will try that!!!
[]s Humberto
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post #1401 of 1935 Old 03-09-2012, 02:39 AM
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Anyone knows what's the smallest sized 2.35:1 Stewart electric screen? Is it 91" diagonal ? HD 130 material.

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post #1402 of 1935 Old 03-09-2012, 11:59 AM
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Is a hair dryer the best method for getting wrinkles out of a firehawk fixed screen that's been in storage for a while? Thanks all
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post #1404 of 1935 Old 03-23-2012, 09:45 PM
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My electric one had big crease problem but after dropping the screen down for couple of nights and using a hair dryer to mildly heating it, all was fine again.

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post #1405 of 1935 Old 04-01-2012, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

I first had a Firehawk installed on my Luxus Deluxe frame but then decided on the ST130 because I had good light control. I was able to get just the ST130 material with snaps to match the existing frame. My screen is 137" 2.4:1.

Hi Carey,

I`ve done exactly the same as you and have ordered the ST130 material to swap-over from my Firehawk G3 screen. My room is now a batcave with full light control so I thought the Firehawk G3 might not be the best material to suit those conditions so I opted for the ST130.

I would welcome your thoughts on the ST130 and how it compares to your Firehawk in performance terms and picture quality improvements.

My screen is 117" 2.40:1 with a JVC HD950 projector.

Can I also just ask you do you recall approx how long your order took for the change of material ?
I ordered my material 2 months ago and haven`t had any updates.

Cheers mate,
Dave
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post #1406 of 1935 Old 04-01-2012, 08:03 AM
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Hi Carey,

I`ve done exactly the same as you and have ordered the ST130 material to swap-over from my Firehawk G3 screen. My room is now a batcave with full light control so I thought the Firehawk G3 might not be the best material to suit those conditions so I opted for the ST130.

I would welcome your thoughts on the ST130 and how it compares to your Firehawk in performance terms and picture quality improvements.

My screen is 117" 2.40:1 with a JVC HD950 projector.

Can I also just ask you do you recall approx how long your order took for the change of material ?
I ordered my material 2 months ago and haven`t had any updates.

Cheers mate,
Dave

Well, I'm pretty sure it didn't take that long. It was several years ago so I really don't remember, sorry.
I was using a Panasonic AE2000U at the time and now a 7000. It's mounted at 18ft from the screen at the top edge, so i didn't have any real hot-spotting issue. But, I didn't care for the somewhat sparkly appearance of the Firehawk and wanted a screen that would essentially disappear and had flat wide angle response with a little more gain. I found I didn't need the contrast advantage since the LCD projectors had improved enough in that area. What I did like about the Firehawk's narrower cone angle was that the ceiling, walls and floor did not light up as much as the ST130. Also, for 16:9 material the black bars on the sides were so dark, there would never be need for black masking. It simply looked like I had a 16:9 screen.

With the ST130, I don't notice any screen structure at all, just the movie. No drop off to the sides of the 2.4:1 format. The room lights up a bit more, but now I don't need any lights on low in order to eat while watching. Note, I do have a blacked out front wall and dark blue ceiling and dark walls. The black bars are still low enough to not be annoying, since again, projectors have improved in that area and have also have internal masking. I'm not sure why people would ever need side masking these days, but I digress. Anyway, the ST130 wide angle response allows moving the projector closer if you need more brightness, especially for 3D. I just can't do that with my setup, but I'm very happy with it as is. Good luck.


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post #1407 of 1935 Old 04-01-2012, 08:51 AM
 
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Jacked,

If you don't mind me asking, how much was your replacement 123" material? I was thinking about doing the same thing with my 123. Thanks
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post #1408 of 1935 Old 04-01-2012, 12:10 PM
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Jacked,

If you don't mind me asking, how much was your replacement 123" material? I was thinking about doing the same thing with my 123. Thanks

Hi Jimbo,

You have a pm.

Dave
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post #1409 of 1935 Old 04-02-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

Well, I'm pretty sure it didn't take that long. It was several years ago so I really don't remember, sorry.
I was using a Panasonic AE2000U at the time and now a 7000. It's mounted at 18ft from the screen at the top edge, so i didn't have any real hot-spotting issue. But, I didn't care for the somewhat sparkly appearance of the Firehawk and wanted a screen that would essentially disappear and had flat wide angle response with a little more gain. I found I didn't need the contrast advantage since the LCD projectors had improved enough in that area. What I did like about the Firehawk's narrower cone angle was that the ceiling, walls and floor did not light up as much as the ST130. Also, for 16:9 material the black bars on the sides were so dark, there would never be need for black masking. It simply looked like I had a 16:9 screen.

With the ST130, I don't notice any screen structure at all, just the movie. No drop off to the sides of the 2.4:1 format. The room lights up a bit more, but now I don't need any lights on low in order to eat while watching. Note, I do have a blacked out front wall and dark blue ceiling and dark walls. The black bars are still low enough to not be annoying, since again, projectors have improved in that area and have also have internal masking. I'm not sure why people would ever need side masking these days, but I digress. Anyway, the ST130 wide angle response allows moving the projector closer if you need more brightness, especially for 3D. I just can't do that with my setup, but I'm very happy with it as is. Good luck.

Thanks very much for your comments.

I have black velvet all around the screen area on the walls and ceiling so that should block any extra light that the ST130 reflects. I just need to find out how long this order is going to take !!

Dave
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post #1410 of 1935 Old 04-02-2012, 06:00 PM
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I would welcome your thoughts on the ST130 and how it compares to your Firehawk in performance terms and picture quality improvements.

Just adding another opinion to the mix....

I currently use the ST130 G3 screen material. I haven't owned the Firehawk material, but I investigated the Firehawk thoroughly over the years in which I was deciding on my screen material (as my HT was being designed and built). I have big samples of it, and I've seen the Firehawk under every condition imaginable - from brightly lit, to full light control virtual bat-cave conditions, including with the same projector models I've used in my home theater (JVC). I have a good idea of it's performance vs my ST130 material.

The upshot is: In a room that has dark surfaces and perfect light control (no ambient light) I definitely prefer the ST130. The ST130's higher gain and finer screen coating simultaneously gives more brightness/vividness/punch to the image, while also presenting a smoother image (sparkly screen structure is rare on the ST130, but quite obvious to me on the Firehawk). It also has a more natural, even illumination - I find the hot-spotting of the Firehawk quite obvious and distracting (it's brighter in the centre, dimmer to the parimeter of the image, and if you sit more to one side of the screen, the opposite side goes visibly darker than the one closer to you).

Contrast-wise, I found it interesting comparing the 8x11 samples of ST130 and the Firehawk in my home (before getting the ST130). I'd expected the Firehawk to look obviously more "contrasty," but if anything it was the opposite. The added brightness of the ST130, in a room in which light reflections are pretty controlled, tended to make image areas with very dark/bright areas look like they had better contrast (a trick to the eyes no doubt, but ultimately that's what we are doing anyway).

I've found that once I did a good job of controlling reflections I've never seen a better projected image than what I'm getting with the JVC RS20 or RS55 on my ST130 - black levels look fantastic but the image isn't remotely dull or dim, it's bright and alive. And the extra gain (over a Firehawk) allows me to blow up the image with my 4 way masking quite large, and still get nice brightness to the image.

The only screen I can see possibly replacing my ST130 is the ST100, only to get the ultimate in "invisible screen" characteristics. Unfortunately I'd take a hit in brightness, so it's likely I'll be sticking with the ST130 as the best compromise I could find, all things considered.

FWIW...

Rich H


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