The Official Stewart Film Screen thread. - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2338 Unread 06-17-2016, 06:59 AM
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I have not seen a sample, but I think the Neve 1.1 might be a great compromise. I've heard it's basically the ST130 but with less coating. A little less bright, but a little less sparkle. Of course, the sizes are not customizable so that can be an issue for some people.

As I have written before, I am very sensitive to screen sparkle and the ST130 would probably be a little too distracting for me based on the sample I have, but surely fine for 99.9% of people. Fortunately, I don't like a very bright image and I view in a dedicated theater room which is Rosco painted/carpeted black with Protostar so the ST100 works perfect for me with my RS4810.


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post #2312 of 2338 Unread 06-17-2016, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I missed that post. Thanks for that info. Very interesting.

When I compared the ST130 with Carada's very smooth Brilliant White and Cinema White screen materials, there was just a certain "something" about the ST-130 material that brought things to life. I presume much or most of it was due to the slightly brighter picture.
When you start trying to use consumer home theater projectors on 180" diagonal screens, something has to give. The ST100 looked dull to me at CES, compared to the same size ST130 G3 screen at Cedia. I like a bright picture. You also have to figure in that you are throwing away 20% + of your light when watching 2.35:1. So, it really depends on screen size and how bright your projector is. And just how often you want to change lamps. I'm more unhappy with less than 16 foot lamberts than I am with the occasional visible sheen in the very brightest portions of the picture. Now, if someone comes out with a long life laser projector that has multiple lamp power settings from 1000 lumens to 5000 lumens ( calibrated ) with JVC level contrast, I'll switch to the ST100 ! If I can afford that projector. In the mean time, the ST130 G3 fits the bill.

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post #2313 of 2338 Unread 06-17-2016, 11:03 AM
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I think in the long term, eventual affordable very high lumens laser projectors will definitely change the course of screen selection for many.


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post #2314 of 2338 Unread 06-17-2016, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I think in the long term, eventual affordable very high lumens laser projectors will definitely change the course of screen selection for many.
Absolutely. I will say that I'm going to think most people aren't dealing with 180" screens. For those people with "normal" screen sizes, a light-controlled room and an ~1800 lumen projector will probably be just fine for an ST100. Heck, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I run my Sony HW50ES on low lamp to the 115" ST100. High lamp is blinding.

Some people really like a really bright image, though, or love 3D movies. For them, the decision gets harder. And it's not easy to demo stuff like this in comparable environments, if at all.
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post #2315 of 2338 Unread 06-20-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Absolutely. I will say that I'm going to think most people aren't dealing with 180" screens. For those people with "normal" screen sizes, a light-controlled room and an ~1800 lumen projector will probably be just fine for an ST100. Heck, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I run my Sony HW50ES on low lamp to the 115" ST100. High lamp is blinding.

Some people really like a really bright image, though, or love 3D movies. For them, the decision gets harder. And it's not easy to demo stuff like this in comparable environments, if at all.
Several years down the road when I eventually move, I plan on going to a much larger screen. I've got a 9 foot wide scope screen today and would like to go something like 12-15 feet wide in my next home and dedicated room. It will just depend on much large the room will be. I'm in a fairly small dedicated room today. However, given my preferences and given how projectors are getting brighter, I'm confident I'll be able to stick to a unity gain screen.


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post #2316 of 2338 Unread 06-22-2016, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I think in the long term, eventual affordable very high lumens laser projectors will definitely change the course of screen selection for many.
It seems to me much brighter laser projectors could be useful in different approaches. One is obviously
going with larger screen sizes.

The other is the one that, to me, seems to hold the most promise of increasing projector image quality
(under more conditions). That is using very high brightness, high contrast projectors, with dark screen
materials (without optical coating boost). I think this has the greatest chance of producing and preserving a high sense of contrast, and not restricted to "bat cave" environments. If we really get to projectors that can do huge simultaneous contrast with a bright image, it seems to me any image wash out will become even more critical to combat in order to realize those promises on a projector screen. Which is why I've always imagined a very bright laser projector on a darker screen substrate.
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post #2317 of 2338 Unread 06-22-2016, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
It seems to me much brighter laser projectors could be useful in different approaches. One is obviously
going with larger screen sizes.

The other is the one that, to me, seems to hold the most promise of increasing projector image quality
(under more conditions). That is using very high brightness, high contrast projectors, with dark screen
materials (without optical coating boost). I think this has the greatest chance of producing and preserving a high sense of contrast, and not restricted to "bat cave" environments. If we really get to projectors that can do huge simultaneous contrast with a bright image, it seems to me any image wash out will become even more critical to combat in order to realize those promises on a projector screen. Which is why I've always imagined a very bright laser projector on a darker screen substrate.
I want it on my StudioTek 130 ! Imagine a laser 4K JVC with twice the lumens we have now, and a manual iris that goes to -20 ! Imagine 25 foot lamberts and 250,000:1 native contrast ! I'll take that and keep my ST 130 G3 thanks!

A person can dream anyway !

Prometheus last night on my 128" diagonal ST 130 G3 looked spectacular, at 18 - 20 foot lamberts and the manual iris at -7 with my RS600. Star Wars: The Force Awakens looked incredible the night before too.

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post #2318 of 2338 Unread 06-23-2016, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
It seems to me much brighter laser projectors could be useful in different approaches. One is obviously
going with larger screen sizes.

The other is the one that, to me, seems to hold the most promise of increasing projector image quality
(under more conditions). That is using very high brightness, high contrast projectors, with dark screen
materials (without optical coating boost). I think this has the greatest chance of producing and preserving a high sense of contrast, and not restricted to "bat cave" environments. If we really get to projectors that can do huge simultaneous contrast with a bright image, it seems to me any image wash out will become even more critical to combat in order to realize those promises on a projector screen. Which is why I've always imagined a very bright laser projector on a darker screen substrate.
Yes, I could see the advantage in that. In my family room setup, I had a 106" diagonal 16:9, 2.8 gain HP screen. I know have a 127" diagonal 1.3 gain FireHawk. Since this room has lots of natural light, I have a TV for daytime viewing and projector at night. But I have noticed the FireHawk does provide a watchable image during the day for bright content such as sports. Never could do that with the HP screen, even though I was getting around 53FL with the HP screen and only 23FL with the FireHawk. The dark substrate of the FireHawk makes that much difference. This is with an RS45. If I had something that was putting out 3,000+ calibrated lumens, I am sure the picture would be quite good.
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post #2319 of 2338 Unread 06-24-2016, 01:34 AM
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I need an advice to select a screen material for my setup. I decided to go with a quality screen, so Stewart is on the top of my list. I am planning to install JVC 7000 projector at just under 11' from the screen. The maximum screen size I can get is 109' and since I need a retractable screen I'm limited to Model A.
I have a white celling and light grey walls and a big window on the side. I'm planning to use thick curtains and watch PJ at nights, so light shouldn't be an issue. However it's not going to be a complete darkness. Below the screen there will be a stand with glossy surface (about 20" high), the center speaker will sit on the top of the stand and it also have a shiny black surface on the top.
There will be a TV mounted on the wall and the screen will be mounted behind the top edge of the opening so that when it extracts, it will cover the TV.
Due to screen size and throw distance I cannot use Firehawk material (the 1.6 throw to width ratio) and I wouldn't like to reduce the size of the screen.
What other choices can be considered taking account the distances and the viewing environment? I attach some phone pics of my room. Please ignore the chaos, we are in a process of moving in ).
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post #2320 of 2338 Unread 06-24-2016, 04:13 AM
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I have a VPL-VW1000ES and I will be moving to new theater. Currently I have a 110" ST130 and I am thinking about moving to ST100 133".

What do I need to use to stop reflections from the walls/ceiling. Fabric or paint? What colors are acceptable or must I use black?
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post #2321 of 2338 Unread 06-24-2016, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
I have a VPL-VW1000ES and I will be moving to new theater. Currently I have a 110" ST130 and I am thinking about moving to ST100 133".

What do I need to use to stop reflections from the walls/ceiling. Fabric or paint? What colors are acceptable or must I use black?
Fabric can do a better job than paint. You need dark, non reflective material. Does not have to be black. Paint also works reasonably well. You want low sheen paint with a low reflectance value.

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post #2322 of 2338 Unread 06-24-2016, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
I have a VPL-VW1000ES and I will be moving to new theater. Currently I have a 110" ST130 and I am thinking about moving to ST100 133".

What do I need to use to stop reflections from the walls/ceiling. Fabric or paint? What colors are acceptable or must I use black?
Dark grays work well. Visit a Sherwin Williams store - they have color pallets of complimentary gray's. I used very dark gray on the ceiling and back wall, a slightly lighter shade on the side walls, a lighter still shade on the hall leading to the theater, black on the front ( screen ) wall, and dark red velvet curtains. And black carpeting. Looks like a theater, not a water boarding facility or dungeon. Lot's of things you can do to cut reflections -



I have to crank up all the lights and use the flash to take pictures - the grays look much darker in person !

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post #2323 of 2338 Unread 06-24-2016, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
I have a VPL-VW1000ES and I will be moving to new theater. Currently I have a 110" ST130 and I am thinking about moving to ST100 133".

What do I need to use to stop reflections from the walls/ceiling. Fabric or paint? What colors are acceptable or must I use black?
The blacker and non-reflective, the better. I would take a look at the Rosco paints as they are incredibly flat and soak in light like you wouldn't believe. They are used in commercial production settings. My painter of 20 years said he never saw anything like it before - I used the Rosco black velour in my room, but if you don't want to go that dark, you can go with a darker grey as mentioned. But even the black I have is like a very dark grey when it dries. You can do the room in paint, but put Protostar or Velvet around the screen or on any adjacent sidewalls. I did this is my room with the Protostar as you can see. I also made a window panel from Styrofoam covering it in Duvetyne you can see on the left side of the attached image. I could have used velvet instead, but this did a good enough job and matched the paint a little better.
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post #2324 of 2338 Unread 06-24-2016, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
I need an advice to select a screen material for my setup. I decided to go with a quality screen, so Stewart is on the top of my list. I am planning to install JVC 7000 projector at just under 11' from the screen. The maximum screen size I can get is 109' and since I need a retractable screen I'm limited to Model A.
I have a white celling and light grey walls and a big window on the side. I'm planning to use thick curtains and watch PJ at nights, so light shouldn't be an issue. However it's not going to be a complete darkness. Below the screen there will be a stand with glossy surface (about 20" high), the center speaker will sit on the top of the stand and it also have a shiny black surface on the top.
There will be a TV mounted on the wall and the screen will be mounted behind the top edge of the opening so that when it extracts, it will cover the TV.
Due to screen size and throw distance I cannot use Firehawk material (the 1.6 throw to width ratio) and I wouldn't like to reduce the size of the screen.
What other choices can be considered taking account the distances and the viewing environment? I attach some phone pics of my room. Please ignore the chaos, we are in a process of moving in ).
Look at GrayHawk.

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post #2325 of 2338 Unread 06-25-2016, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Look at GrayHawk.
Thanks.
After reading this thread I got an impreesion that this material is not very popular. Is there a reason for that?
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post #2326 of 2338 Unread 06-25-2016, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
Thanks.
After reading this thread I got an impreesion that this material is not very popular. Is there a reason for that?
I would advise against a Grayhawk in that environment. That material washes easily has no directionality and will do poorly with any ambient or light wall reflections.
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post #2327 of 2338 Unread 06-25-2016, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post
I would advise against a Grayhawk in that environment. That material washes easily has no directionality and will do poorly with any ambient or light wall reflections.
His throw is too short for most of the ALR screens and GrayHawk would be a much better choice than a white screen. Per Stewart: " Superior performance in environments with ambient light"
http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/scr...grayhawk%C2%AE

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post #2328 of 2338 Unread 06-25-2016, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
Thanks.
After reading this thread I got an impreesion that this material is not very popular. Is there a reason for that?
My screen fabric is GrayHawk. In a light controlled room it's my screen fabric of choice.

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post #2329 of 2338 Unread 06-29-2016, 09:11 AM
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With grayhawk I'm put off by the statement that it is "designed to maximize the performance of today’s 1080p technology" while I'm looking to build the theater with a view for 4K content and equipment. Also, it's gain chart doesn't look too impressive already at 30 degrees.
What about ST100/130?
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post #2330 of 2338 Unread 06-30-2016, 08:00 AM
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Shelf or Ceiling mount? My eyeballs are 20" below screen center. My PJ is on a shelf mount with the lens 1" above screen center. I'm planning to go to an Ultramatte 130 screen. Past research has said that a ceiling mount is better because the angle of reflection of a PJ above the center of a screen gives a brighter picture to eyes an equal angle below the center of the screen. Is this true for a material such as Ultramatte 130 with a more or less uniform dispersion?

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Please, what are the pros and cons of a curved screen at a TR of 1.35? Are the Pros/cons different if one is looking at 1.85 vs. 2.39?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
With grayhawk I'm put off by the statement that it is "designed to maximize the performance of today’s 1080p technology" while I'm looking to build the theater with a view for 4K content and equipment. Also, it's gain chart doesn't look too impressive already at 30 degrees.
What about ST100/130?
GrayHawk has no problem fully resolving 4K. ST100 will wash out a lot worse and ST130 will also wash out, but not near as bad as ST100.

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post #2333 of 2338 Unread 07-01-2016, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
Please, what are the pros and cons of a curved screen at a TR of 1.35? Are the Pros/cons different if one is looking at 1.85 vs. 2.39?
Are you using an A-lens? If not you will have barrel distortion. If using an A-lens with something like ST130, then you are very close to the minimum throw.

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post #2334 of 2338 Unread 07-01-2016, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Are you using an A-lens? If not you will have barrel distortion. If using an A-lens with something like ST130, then you are very close to the minimum throw.
Thanks, Mike.
No A lens
1. This is the opposite of what I thought to be true. I thought that a curved screen (no A lens) would reduce barrel distortion at my short TR. So, I should go to flat? Currently, with my interim Sony PJ, I can't see any barrel distortion with the grid projected on to the curved screen.

2. I'm changing to Ultramatte 130 from a generic, no coating, matte white 1.0 because I want a little gain to help HDR when I upgrade to the JVC RS500. I presume I'm still at the minimum throw for the JVC and no A lens?

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post #2335 of 2338 Unread 07-06-2016, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
Thanks, Mike.
No A lens
1. This is the opposite of what I thought to be true. I thought that a curved screen (no A lens) would reduce barrel distortion at my short TR. So, I should go to flat? Currently, with my interim Sony PJ, I can't see any barrel distortion with the grid projected on to the curved screen.

2. I'm changing to Ultramatte 130 from a generic, no coating, matte white 1.0 because I want a little gain to help HDR when I upgrade to the JVC RS500. I presume I'm still at the minimum throw for the JVC and no A lens?
I use a StudioTek 130 G3 with my JVC RS600, and Sony VW600, and my previous Sim Lumis. I'm nearly at minimum throw distance. A flat screen works fine. Email us your throw distance and desired screen size, and we can help you make sure it will work ( your seating distance is useful too ).
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post #2336 of 2338 Unread 07-06-2016, 09:15 AM
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^^^ Thanks. I'm at a TR of 1.35 with eyeballs at 8' 6", and curved screen seems to be working in my situation. If I can find a PJ with performance as good as the RS 500 with a shorter TR, I had planned to put up a flat screen 59" tall and 138" wide and put up velvet panels for 16:9 width of 105", with zoom for scope against a velvet covered front wall. Short throw PJ's being in the minority, I'll probably give up on this.

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Polk LSiM703 fronts, RTi-12 rears, LsiC and LSiM 706 centers, T-15 RH, Monitor 60 FW, CSiA1 FH, AT DA-44 TM, ED A6t sides
Two Emotiva XPA-5's for the Beds and TC, BasX-7 on order for the tops, Marantz AV7702MKII in Mancave until consumer-grade 9.2.6(or better) Pre-pro is available.
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post #2337 of 2338 Unread 07-06-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
^^^ Thanks. I'm at a TR of 1.35 with eyeballs at 8' 6", and curved screen seems to be working in my situation. If I can find a PJ with performance as good as the RS 500 with a shorter TR, I had planned to put up a flat screen 59" tall and 138" wide and put up velvet panels for 16:9 width of 105", with zoom for scope against a velvet covered front wall. Short throw PJ's being in the minority, I'll probably give up on this.
As I said, you are very close to the minimum (TR 1.3 min.) for ST130 or UltraMatte 130. If you do not use an A-lens, you definitely want to stick with a flat screen.

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post #2338 of 2338 Unread 07-06-2016, 12:21 PM
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^^^ Yes, I accept what you say and will act accordingly.

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Polk LSiM703 fronts, RTi-12 rears, LsiC and LSiM 706 centers, T-15 RH, Monitor 60 FW, CSiA1 FH, AT DA-44 TM, ED A6t sides
Two Emotiva XPA-5's for the Beds and TC, BasX-7 on order for the tops, Marantz AV7702MKII in Mancave until consumer-grade 9.2.6(or better) Pre-pro is available.
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