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post #1 of 368 Old 05-15-2006, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to Tyrg for his reviews and darinp2 for his endoresement. I just installed my 110" diagonal High Power and all I can say is this is one of the most dramatic upgrades I have made to my personal theater. I am not even using it at its optimal viewing angle. I have a BenQ PE8720 firing 22" from the center line of a 54" screen height. The PJ is roughly 3 feet behind my head. I am estimating with my rough calculations that I am 8-10 degrees off axis, maybe less. The gain is slightly better when I stand up but not by a huge margin. I just cannot believe the beautiful image. I tried an Infocus PJ a few weeks back and I knew I wanted that type image. The screen just disappears. No sparklies or screen anomolies to get in the way of the image. The best part is I have been able to almost completely close down the manual iris on the BenQ so my CR is higher and shadow details are better. I do have slightly elevated back levels but after closing the iris down, it isn't a huge difference. Run the lamp on low, close the iris down and enjoy. I cannot endorse this screen highly enough. For those looking for a bright clean image, it is the way to go.

Eric Awtry
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post #2 of 368 Old 05-15-2006, 02:28 PM
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I agree 100%. Yesterday I was playing Ghost Recon with the outside door wide open using a Sanyo Z4. Picture was still great. Even with tons of sunlight flooding into the room.

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post #3 of 368 Old 05-15-2006, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awtryau89
The best part is I have been able to almost completely close down the manual iris on the BenQ so my CR is higher and shadow details are better. I do have slightly elevated back levels but after closing the iris down, it isn't a huge difference.
Great to hear it. I know it defies what most people would think at first, but a high gain screen can actually give you better blacks by allowing you to close the iris down, which tends to give better on/off CR (or lower absolute black at the same white level to a viewer) for a DLP like that (when there aren't other lights on). And the off-axis rejection helps with other lights or reflections around the room too.

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post #4 of 368 Old 05-15-2006, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Darin,
From my back row of seating, the PJ is less than 1 foot over my head. I have been experimenting sitting back there and I am amazed at the brightness. I know the BenQ is only putting out a little over 200 lumens with the iris clamped all the way down but from those seats, the PJ is brighter than my 130 with the iris closed only 35%. From the front row, I have found the iris needs to be closed 75%. At this level, I am getting a slightly higher output than the 130 at 35% closed. I really like this because I can conserve bulb life and as it dims, I will just be able to open the iris.

That brings up another question I have. After reading Greg Roger's review of the 1080p DLP he recommended running the bulbs on high with the iris closed down and opening the iris as they dimmed. Running the bulbs on high seems counter-intuitive but I would default to him on this. Maybe I just read that wrong. What are your thoughts?

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post #5 of 368 Old 05-15-2006, 07:21 PM
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Running the bulb on high doesn't lower CR, the point is to get back some of the lumens lost to the iris.

Noah
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post #6 of 368 Old 05-16-2006, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awtryau89
After reading Greg Roger's review of the 1080p DLP he recommended running the bulbs on high with the iris closed down and opening the iris as they dimmed.
Where can I read Greg Roger's review of the 1080P DLP? Thanks.
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post #7 of 368 Old 05-16-2006, 06:01 AM
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awtryau89,

glad you enjoy it!

Sometimes I cant believe how many people sit there an complain about how dim their projector is or how low they want their black level yet they never consider buying this screen.

although high gain screens can have drawbacks it set up properly the benefits easily outway the costs

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post #8 of 368 Old 05-25-2006, 07:59 PM
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Tryg got me to give it a go too and if he asked me for my first born I would feel obligated to give it to him. GREAT SCREEN. I festered in the DIY section WAY too long when this reasonably priced screen sat waiting for me.

Thanks Tryg!
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post #9 of 368 Old 05-31-2006, 12:59 PM
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If you are using a high power screen in a near daylight situation, what happens at night in a light controlled situation, do you need sunglasses???I am not trying to be funny, does it get to bright and do you need ND filters???
Thanks
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post #10 of 368 Old 05-31-2006, 08:11 PM
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there's no such thing as too bright

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post #11 of 368 Old 06-01-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
there's no such thing as too bright

So true.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #12 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 05:24 AM
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What brand High Power screen are we talking about? Where is the link to Trygs review? Thanks.
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post #13 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 07:08 AM
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I recently posted in the Da-Lite thread about my recent HP purchase. I think it was Tryg who convinced me, too. When I read through all the HP comments, the only people who seemed critical were those who didn't have it. They seem to be going on a hunch that the HP will be too bright (funny question on here about whether you need sunglasses.) When I got all the Da-Lite samples and shined a flashlight at the HP at 45 degrees (as if from a nearby window), only to see the light shine back at me, I was sold.

Vivid colors and, oddly enough, my blacks look great, too. My biggest worry in getting it was the so-called limited viewing cone, and I'm glad I didn't let that stop me. I have stood way outside the recommended viewing cone, and can still see it pretty well. Not quite as vivid, but certainly watchable.

The rep at the place I ordered my HP from said that as word spreads, HP is quickly gaining in popularity.
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post #14 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 07:15 AM
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I've had mine - the 139x78 model C - for just over a month and like everyone else, I regret not getting it 18 months ago. It is set up now with a panasonic AE-900U from Costco and everyone loves it. No complaints at all. Get one, you will never look back.
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post #15 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 09:39 AM
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is this thing brighter than the Vutek silver star ? Would I see a big difference between the two with my Optoma H77 ?


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post #16 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 10:57 AM
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They're about the same gain when used optimally.

Noah
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post #17 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
awtryau89,

glad you enjoy it!

Sometimes I cant believe how many people sit there an complain about how dim their projector is or how low they want their black level yet they never consider buying this screen.

although high gain screens can have drawbacks it set up properly the benefits easily outway the costs
OK, I'm planning a FP set-up in a room that is not totally light-controlled (has light colored walls and ceiling, and some filtered light through shuttered windows on the side, but no direct sunlight and no light from behind the viewers), and I like a bright, RPTV-like picture. Suppose I have a very bright pj with a variable iris that would give me 67 ftL, say, on a 120" HighPower and thus 30 ftL on a 120" Firehawk: do you think I would get a better CR, blacks, etc., in this 'modest' ambient light situation with the HP and the iris squeezed down as you described above, or with the FH, i.e., using its gray screen to do the job? (And assuming that I can mount the pj in the optimum location for each screen, and also neglecting the higher price of the FH.)

PS I.e., I guess I'm asking if you have 'enough lumens to burn', will the FH give a better PQ in this situation.
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post #18 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill
OK, I'm planning a FP set-up in a room that is not totally light-controlled (has light colored walls and ceiling, and some filtered light through shuttered windows on the side, but no direct sunlight and no light from behind the viewers), and I like a bright, RPTV-like picture. Suppose I have a very bright pj with a variable iris that would give me 67 ftL, say, on a 120" HighPower and thus 30 ftL on a 120" Firehawk: do you think I would get a better CR, blacks, etc., in this 'modest' ambient light situation with the HP and the iris squeezed down as you described above, or with the FH, i.e., using its gray screen to do the job? (And assuming that I can mount the pj in the optimum location for each screen, and also neglecting the higher price of the FH.)

PS I.e., I guess I'm asking if you have 'enough lumens to burn', will the FH give a better PQ in this situation.
The HP does well with ambient light because it is retroreflective and shoots the light back from where it came.
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post #19 of 368 Old 06-03-2006, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_wolfe
The HP does well with ambient light because it is retroreflective and shoots the light back from where it came.
Yes, I am aware of this. And the Firehawk deals with it via its gray screen. (And I know that the FH has to be ceiling mounted, as far away as possible, and the HP mounted near eye-level, and the closer the better). And the HP of course has higher gain and is thus clearly better if one's pj is lumen shy (and it costs less than half the FH.) But my question was, if one has a very bright pj, so that one still gets ~/> 20 to 30 ftL with the FH, will it give better PQ than the HP, or not (i.e., in terms of CR, detail in dark scenes, color accuracy, sharpness, etc.) in situations with some ambient light present?
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post #20 of 368 Old 06-05-2006, 06:53 PM
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Hi all,

I might as well ask this question of happy HP users. I recently purchased a Mitsubishi WD2000U. I love the projector. It is very bright so folks have been discouraging me from using a HP screen. But, everyone seems to love their HP screens while the grey screens are not nearly as well liked.

My situation: WD2000U most likely ceiling mounted (behind viewers about 1 foot and 4 ft above). Distance to screen (ceiling mounted) will be 15 feet. I plan on an HDTV screen 16:9 aspect, approx 119 inch diagonal. I like movies bright and vibrant...not grey and dingy. Would the HP work for me?

I could, alternatively, mount the projector at eye level but this would not be as pleasant a process and would not be wife approved.

Help!

Marcus

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post #21 of 368 Old 06-05-2006, 08:44 PM
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Hi Bill,

That's a tough one.

I think the onscreen contrast will always be better with the HP, though the blacks might in sone cases be less with the FH, depending on ambient light.

1. My reasoning is that the retroreflectivity will make the HP less sensitive to light from all directions except where the viewers are

2. If your pj has an adjustable iris, the HP will allow closing it down for better CR at the same screen brightness as the FH

3. A gray screen doesn't improve CR, it only lowers blacks and whites together

But I may have missed something. Darin would be the one to ask. If he doesn't pop in here, PM him and let us know what he says.

Marcus,

That's far from optimum for the HP, but it will probably still be brighter than the FH, and retain its other advantages as well.

Noah
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post #22 of 368 Old 06-05-2006, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz
2. If your pj has an adjustable iris, the HP will allow closing it down for better CR at the same screen brightness as the FH
Just wanted to point out that this is true when there aren't other lights in the room. If there is a lot of lighting on or light coming in then using the high lumen mode is best. For just a small amount of other lighting it is hard to say which would give the best CR off the screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz
3. A gray screen doesn't improve CR, it only lowers blacks and whites together
A gray screen will help ANSI CR (and thus simultaneous CR in many situations). Unfortunately, I think there is an article on Wikipedia about screens which says that they don't help CR, but that is only true for on/off CR.

I tried to explain why around halfway down on this page in my article on CR:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-2.html

As far as the High Power vs the Firehawk, in average white rooms I would probably give the edge to the Firehawk overall in ANSI CR retention for people in good seating positions because it has both the gray and a directional layer somewhat like the High Power's (although not as strong and angular-reflective instead of retro-reflective). The Firehawk can do well at rejecting lights that are on, but it depends on the angle they are coming from much like with the High Power.

We can dream about a gray High Power (the Graywolf doesn't do it for me because of the visible surface), but until then or something else comes along we have to stick with these other choices. As far as Bill's situation, I think the Firehawk might do a little better job rejecting the light from the sides (as long as that light isn't from an angle the bounces directing to the viewers, but instead bounces mostly toward the other side of the room), but as far as which screen will give the better images, my guess is that some people would choose the Firehawk and some the High Power if both were tested in there. The High Power would have the advantage at night when there aren't lights coming in and the bulb has dimmed a lot, for those who like the brighter images it would provide when setup right (viewers in good gain positions). And the Firehawk has a little more visible surface than the High Power's, to my eyes.

--Darin

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post #23 of 368 Old 06-06-2006, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot
Hi all,

I might as well ask this question of happy HP users. I recently purchased a Mitsubishi WD2000U. I love the projector. It is very bright so folks have been discouraging me from using a HP screen. But, everyone seems to love their HP screens while the grey screens are not nearly as well liked.

My situation: WD2000U most likely ceiling mounted (behind viewers about 1 foot and 4 ft above). Distance to screen (ceiling mounted) will be 15 feet. I plan on an HDTV screen 16:9 aspect, approx 119 inch diagonal. I like movies bright and vibrant...not grey and dingy. Would the HP work for me?

I could, alternatively, mount the projector at eye level but this would not be as pleasant a process and would not be wife approved.

Help!

Marcus
My experience with the HP on a 139x78 screen with the 900U is that everyone who comes over to watch movies likes it as bright as it can be. When company is over I switch the fan and the lamp to high and use Normal for the movie. I have not calibrated the PJ at all. This is always a crowd pleaser and it is much more popular than the other room which has a Sony 1292 9" crt projecting on to a 96x72 inch torus screen that I spent a great deal of time calibrating and tweaking. For the average movie watcher, brighter will always be perceived as better and more enjoyable.
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post #24 of 368 Old 06-06-2006, 09:35 AM
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Noah and Darin, Thanks very much for your replies. I do realize that it is impossible to give an absolute answer to my questions, but since you guys have so much more experience with FP than I do (which is 0, and some of it comes down to personal preference), your thoughts are very helpful. So let me try to be more specific: suppose the ONLY ambient light is from light-colored ceiling and walls, i.e., no external light from outside (which I can manage if necessary). The two senarios are

1) a high quality pj, with excellent CR, e.g., the Sammy 710 (that supposedly produces ~ 600 lumens after calibration), with a 120" diag HP (pj optimally mounted, i.e., near eye level, and ~13 ft away) in a relatively narrow room (so viewing angle is not an issue). Net ftL = ~ 42.

2) a much brighter pj with less CR and perhaps lesser overall PQ capabilities, e.g., the Mits wd-2000 (that supposedly delivers 1600 lumens after calibration), with a 120" FH to generate the better CR (ceiling mounted, ~16 ft away), same room. Net ftL = ~ 47.

Any thoughts about which would produce the best result? (And I do want a BRIGHT pic. But the Mits with the HP would produce 105 ftL, and this might be TOO much!). I would love, of course, to be able to try out both of these in my room, but this just seems not to be possible.
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post #25 of 368 Old 06-06-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
I tried to explain why around halfway down on this page in my article on CR:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-2.html
I just read through your article and looked at your 'calculator'. Any guesstimate on the 'room reflectivity' for a room with only light-colored ceiling/walls, one also with 'bit' of outside light, etc.? You give .001 for the 'best of all possible rooms', and .05 for a room with bright walls. Is .05 a good ballpark figure for even 'matte, off-white walls, with some pictures on them, and a light brown carpet, or might .01 or .02 be more reasonable? And at what stage do you include the effect of any external light?
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post #26 of 368 Old 06-06-2006, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill
I just read through your article and looked at your 'calculator'.
Just to be clear and give credit where it lies, Erik Garci from here did the calculator I referenced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill
Any guesstimate on the 'room reflectivity' for a room with only light-colored ceiling/walls, one also with 'bit' of outside light, etc.? You give .001 for the 'best of all possible rooms', and .05 for a room with bright walls. Is .05 a good ballpark figure for even 'matte, off-white walls, with some pictures on them, and a light brown carpet, or might .01 or .02 be more reasonable?
It can get pretty complicated as it can depend on the percentage of the front wall covered by the screen and other things. I know that with my Sharp 11k that had about 500:1 ANSI CR I got about 80:1 ANSI CR off the screen with a High Power and sitting right by the projector in an off-white room. Through experimenting with the calculator that would be a room gain of about 0.02, but that is with the advantage of the High Powers gain. A room reflectivity of 0.05 would have given under 40:1 with that projector, so it is possible that the worst room is actually a little higher than 0.05 for room gain. Just as a guess, I might use 0.02 or 0.03 for your room.
Quote:
And at what stage do you include the effect of any external light?
External light isn't taken into account and it would need to be measured or have a good idea of how much it was. If it was the equivalent of 1 lumen coming from the front, then if the projector was 500 lumens then the highest on/off CR would be around 500:1. The extra light is like lowering the on/off CR value in that calculator, but unfortunately, I don't currently have a good idea for how to tell you how much your light coming in might be. There is a lightmeter (an AEMC CA813) for about $140 that could measure it reasonably well, as well as do measurements of lumens and CR from the projector.

--Darin

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post #27 of 368 Old 06-06-2006, 03:24 PM
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Darin, thanks again!
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post #28 of 368 Old 06-07-2006, 09:35 AM
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Do the high power screens have any sort of black backing or if I shine a light on the
rear of the screen will it show through? Thanks!
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post #29 of 368 Old 06-07-2006, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich
Do the high power screens have any sort of black backing or if I shine a light on the
rear of the screen will it show through? Thanks!
The HP does have a black backing that is basically opaque. When I asked Dalite, though, they said they would not absolutely guarantee that no light would show through if a strong source was shined directly on the rear. I take this to mean that there will be no problem if one takes reasonable measures to eliminate any strong sources (e.g., direct sunlight) from the rear.
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post #30 of 368 Old 06-09-2006, 02:41 PM
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Any owners of DaLite's High Power experience waves in their pulldown screens? I'm trying to decide whether I should get a manual pulldown or a motorized screen. I would think the stress on the screen material when pulling on it may eventually distort the screen and produce waves. I would add that I can't leave the screen down as I need access to the next room through a door which will be mostly covered by the screen when it's down.
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