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25+ Screen Samples - Testing w/ AE900U

32K views 204 replies 48 participants last post by  jberylec 
#1 ·
For a shortcut to the decision and all followup posts, click HERE !

Updates:

12/27/2006 - Carada CCW Wins! Carada 16:9 Criterion 118" CCW Stay tuned for install photos & notes!

12/13/2006 - Grey Diamond Vein eliminated.

12/11/2006 - Grey Diamond Vein Magic Fabric sample arrives from projectionwholesale.com

12/07/2006 - Carada CCW brought back into testing!

11/27/2006 - Cinema Vision brought back in!

11/27/2006 - Dark greys eliminated *See suggestions below

11/15/2006 - Super high gain (1.5+) samples eliminated!

11/10/2006 - Vutec samples arrive!

11/06/2006 - Severtson samples arrive!

10/30/2006 - Official Testing Starts! Several brand's samples arrive, including DaLite, Carada, Stewart, Draper, Elite, and some DIY materials provided by WilsonArt Laminates!


Screen Sample Requests Never Answered or Received:

(Multiple attempts made to manufacturers & retailers)

DragonFly (snapav.com)

EluneVision (eastporters.com)


Screen Sample Finalists:

(Sorted lightest to darkest)

Carada CCW ( carada.com ) WINNER!

DaLite HCMW ( dalite.com )

DaLite CV ( dalite.com )


Screen Sample Eliminations:
(I want to make it clear that all reviewed screens are very good products, and will work in numerous types of setups and environments, they all have their purpose. Their eliminations from my testing are solely based on my opinions, setup, and environment)

-All Whites reviewed - *See suggestions below

-All Bright Whites reviewed - *See suggestions below

-All Bright Silvers reviewed - Too much gain, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle), dirty whites

-DaLite HCDM - Too dark, dirty whites

-Optoma GrayWolf II - Too much gain, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)

-Stewart FireHawk - Narrow viewing angle, and requires ceiling mounted PJ for consistent brightness, dirty whites

-Draper HCG - Too dark, dirty whites

-Severtson HCG & Ultra - Too dark, dirty whites

-DaLite Pearlescent - Tad bit too dark, dirty whites, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)

-WilsonArt Grey (DIY) - Too dark, dirty whites

-WilsonArt Fashion Grey (DIY) - Too dark, dirty whites

-Elite HCG - Dark Grey *See suggestions below

-Draper HiDef Grey - Dark Grey *See suggestions below

-Carada HCG - Dark Grey *See suggestions below

-Stewart GreyHawk - Dark Grey *See suggestions below

-Grey Diamond Vein Magic Fabric - Too dark, dirty whites

-DaLite HCCV - Too dark, dirty whites, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)

-DaLite HCMW - Very nice colors & contrast, but pull down material only, not available in fixed frame

-DaLite CV - Tad bit too dark, dirty whites, tad too much brightness fall off


Most super high gain (1.5+) screens have been eliminated, due to their narrow viewing angles. I have a wide seating area. For a detailed review and to read into this in depth, check out this awesome review: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=228371 A big big thank you to Tryg for all the hard work! Much appreciated!



*Suggestions:
For Grey Screens: These are typically used with projectors having low contrast (5000:1 or less) and/or in rooms with ambient light. For this reason the best match would be 2000+ advertised lumens and/or 96" or smaller screen size and/or a short throw (8-10ft). Otherwise you're going to experience a dimmed image and/or see dirty looking whites.

For White Screens: 6,000+ advertised contrast ratio with very good grey scaling and/or complete light control. Otherwise you're going to see greys instead of blacks.

For Bright White Screens: These are typically used with low lumen projectors and/or in rooms with ambient light. The best match would be 6,000+ advertised contrast ratio with very good grey scaling and more importantly you'll want your seating narrower than the projected image. Otherwise you're going to see brightness falloff when viewing from the sides (outside the viewing cone).

*Please remember, these are only my personal opinions, based soley on the below detailed environment, and many many many hours of testing 25+ screen samples



Comparison Photos:

(Shortcuts to all posts containing relevent pics gathered from throughout this thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8841160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8847844
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8848268
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8856289
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9014046
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9014060
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9024750


Original Post:
The Environment: The room is not light controlled, and does have substantial ambient light from one rear lamp, an adjoined room, and two large windows. All walls are glossy off-white, the ceiling is rough textured white.

The Projector & Details: I have a Panasonic PT-AE900U (advertised 1100 lumens, 5500:1 contrast ratio). It's shelf mounted 14ft back, about 1ft above eye level, using no horizontal lens shift, it's centered. Seating distance is at about 13ft from the screen, and the projected image size is exactly 100" diag. The seating is centered with the image area, but is about 3ft wider than the image to either side. The projector is in low lamp, testing is done in both Normal and Cinema1 modes. Testing to date (12/14/06) has spanned through 0 to 500 hours on the bulb.

The Disclaimer: This testing was to find the absolute best screen material based on my personal opinions and in this environment only! I'm looking for the darkest black levels, the brightest whites, and all with the most natural colors! (Aren't we all?!)
Also, because of my wide seating arrangement brightness uniformity is very important.



So, if you're in the same type of environment and looking for a screen, or just interested in reading my opinions...

By all means read on...

I started all this testing with about 40+ screen samples, however some were not even considered due to their nature, for example: audio transparent screens and/or extremely high gain screens for churches/bars, etc.


So it was roughly 25+ samples to begin the quest. Currently it's now narrowed down to about 8 (although this number is constantly changing as more screen samples arive, and others get eliminated. See above updates or follow this thread closely for all details and the actual remaining samples).


I used double sided tape on the back of all the samples to stick them all over the wall, within the image area obviously
I put them up in various locations, cycling them all around every couple of days, eliminating as I went as some screen materials are completely out of the question for this set up.


This testing procedure's accuracy is based on real watching habbits. Daytime television, Nighttime movies, Sunday Football, etc. You can imagine all the stand-up's and sit-downs right? How many times do you think I switch couches, lay down, stand up, move around, on a daily basis? haha! It's all in fun though



I'm keeping a tally sheet, every time myself or another viewer has to say "wow, that one really looks the best", then it gets a tic on the score card! The highest tally count at the end wins! (All viewers are completely made aware that their eyes may play tricks on them, and not to easily focus on the brightest image. But rather, pay attention to the contrast between black & white, also the overall image quality/color purity).


Trust me, I'm very meticulous, and I make sure my viewers are as well



Here are some results: (Much more to come)

I just elminated my samples of Gray Wolf II (they sent two sheets). I have to be completely honest here, I was disappointed. Perhabs because I let myself get so excited about the possibility of a perfect screen! Go figure!
Anyhow, I had already eliminated angular reflective materials such as the FireHawk, because of gain/reflection issues. I was stoked about the Gray Wolf being retro-reflective.


More on the Gray Wolf II...

From one end of the couch to the other there are DRASTIC image brightness changes. The gain is VERY strong in the center (bright scenes completely overpower the whole image), but move to either end of the couch and it's a blacked out image. My couch is only a few inches wider than the image size!


The sweet spot is about 1-2 feet off to either side of the lens. That really is the only watchable position (depending on where I stuck the samples of coarse).


Anyhow, I was really hoping to go with this screen, but testing shows that it just wont work in my set up, there is no uniformity from side to side, nor from top to bottom. I had to eliminate the DaLite Silver Matte, High Power, and the FireHawk for these same reasons.


I still have some major players up on the wall, like the GreyHawk, HCCV, and Elite HCG (along with several others like WilsonArt Grey & Fashion Grey, Carada HCG, DaLite HCMW, HCDM, and Pearlescent). I'm also waiting on samples from many other manufacturers! Can't wait to get those!


I'm keeping all these samples around, so if anyone wants to see pics, I'd be more than happy to take some. I will continue to test and update as needed
 
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#152 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumoon /forum/post/0


Wow, my wife thinks I obsess about stuff..wait till I show her your thread!

LOL
So, if you're already happy with your black levels then you don't need to go with something as dark as the Elite HCG.


Out of those two options I'd think the pull-down HCMW would be a better choice, it's a lighter shade of grey. But still probably darker than your tan wall. Wouldn't hurt to get samples and compare
 
#153 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jberylec /forum/post/0


Out of those two options I'd think the pull-down HCMW would be a better choice, it's a lighter shade of grey. But still probably darker than your tan wall. Wouldn't hurt to get samples and compare

Samples of both should be here soon and I'll definitely do some testing. Just wanted to get some sage advice from the 'Screen Oracle'.



Got a high-power sample as well just for comparison purposes. But from reading your posts and some others I'm not feeling like that will work.


Good luck with choosing btw the CV and CCW...I'll be looking for the pictures to be posted when you finally pull the trigger. I've heard only good things about Carada and I'll be considering them if I ever need a fixed frame. Thanks!!
 
#154 ·
You could always black out that window and come up with a clever way to mount a fixed frame Carada! Maybe if you contact them they might just have some ideas or solutions for that



The fixed frames add so much to the look of the theater. Like a huge plasma hanging on the wall



I'm lovin' the CCW!
 
#155 ·
Another CCW sample is on the way. This time I'm not going to use the double sided tape method. Instead, I'm going to build/buy some type of small mock-up frame and tension the material, then hang it like a picture



This decision is getting rough. I really wish Carada had a "High Contrast CCW" that would be slightly more greyish than the CCW. Or DaLite having something that was a couple shades lighter than the CV. Either that or some other manufacturer with the "perfect" shade of very light grey. I don't think it exists. Yet.


Anyhow, I'm still leaning more towards the CCW. Can't wait to get a new sample. I'll keep everyone posted
 
#157 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowman /forum/post/0


For screens that are pull down only (like the HCMW), have you thought about making your own fixed frame and just buying the screen material or cutting it out of a pull down?


BTW awesome thread, thanks for sharing.

Yes I've thought of that. But if I was going to build a frame, I'd just go with a WilsonArt Laminate. Much much cheaper, just as good of image quality, and best of all - VERY durable! It'll last forever.
 
#159 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowman /forum/post/0


but the laminates have zero ambient light tolerance.

Actually, I think you can overcome some ambient light with laminates like the grey or platinum colors simply because the base color is darker. The WilsonArt samples always had better contrast than my white wall with all the lights on (or off for that matter). They just didnt have a bright enough image over all for my liking. I might actually look into some other laminate colors before this is all over
 
#161 ·
Good luck on your search
This testing is fun, but gets a little frustrating. LOL
 
#162 ·
The decision has been made!! The screen has been ordered!


A brand spankin' new Carada 16:9 Criterion 118" CCW is on it's way home! (My Home!)



I chose the CCW because it improves blacks just enough while not affecting whites too much. I chose the Criterion because I love the large borders and beveled edge, this gives the eye a better conceived contrast ratio. I chose the large 118" size to plan ahead for moving out of the apartment and into a larger family room or dedicated entertainment room. I chose Carada because of their EXCELLENT customer service! They can't be beat.


I settled on a very light grey / off-white screen material relying on the fact that projectors will always get better, in regards to both lumens and contrast. The key here is that this screen material is perfect for my current projector and will STILL be perfect for any future projector with more lumens and better contrast. I should be set for a really long time!


Stay tuned for install photos & notes
 
#163 ·
Pics & and install write-up coming soon!

Meanwhile, I'm dealing with vertical banding from my 900U!



I thought this PJ wasn't supposed to have this problem! Well, anyhow, I'll be working with warranty to get it repaired/replaced.


Then waiting for a 1080p 2000 Lumen PJ to be released
 
#165 ·
Well to be honest I was only able to watch the screen a few times before my AE900U developed severe vertical banding. I had to send it in for warranty repair/replacement.


I got the run around for a while, 'vb is normal' blah blah, but finally they agreed to replace the optical block, or replace the unit if that doesn't fix it.


I've been with out the projector for a month, ridiculous! But anyhow, the screen is perfect, I love it. at this point I wouldn't change my decision at all.


I'll definitely post back more details as soon as I get the pj back (which better be soon!) Supposedly they're having trouble finding parts or a replacement unit. At this point they should offer me a free upgrade to the AX100!


All of this just months into ownership. Sad.
 
#166 ·
jberylec, great thread. don't know if you can help me, i just bought a PLV-Z5, rated at 1100 lumens. I'm going to project a 92" screen at a distance of about 16 feet, although I am contemplating doing a ceiling mount, around 10-11 ft if i need to. do you think the Elite HCG would be too dark for this set up? i have light tan colored walls and white ceilings, and i am a bit concerned about light reflection off the walls and ceilings washing out the blacks if I go with an Elite Matte White screen (i'm considering Elite since they seem to be the only ones that make a budget tensioned screen). i know you mentioned with a smaller screen the low rated lumens shouldn't be a problem. any suggestions would be great, thanks!
 
#168 ·
jberylec-

Glad to hear you are enjoying your CCW. Very sorry to hear about the VB issues and I hope you get the PJ back soon. After testing a few screens based on your results, I finally settled on the Dalite HCMW - pulldown 106". I'm lovin' it.


Thanks and be sure to post some pics when you get the pj and screen back together.
 
#169 ·
Also looking to purchase screen sometime soon. What I have now is a Panny 900 in a light controlled room that is 12' x 21' - projecting on the 12' section. Throw dist 15' (could change), Seating dist 13' to 18'. Currently testing what screen size I want to stick with. Viewing angle not really an issue I think? I am projecting on the wall painted off-white. I want the best picture I can get. Do I need to sacrifice whites for blacks with my setup?


Thanks for your opinion.


Tim
 
#170 ·
i'm also considering Da-Lite HCMW to go with my Epson TW700


light is not controlled daytime but have shades to cover and it almost totally black at night.

throw will be 15 ft and seating is 11ft and thinking on 92'' screen. so is it a go?


Epson TW700

92'' Da-Lite HCMW

throw 15ft

seating 11ft

light moderately controlled
 
#171 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyman /forum/post/0


jberylec, great thread. don't know if you can help me, i just bought a PLV-Z5, rated at 1100 lumens. I'm going to project a 92" screen at a distance of about 16 feet, although I am contemplating doing a ceiling mount, around 10-11 ft if i need to. do you think the Elite HCG would be too dark for this set up? i have light tan colored walls and white ceilings, and i am a bit concerned about light reflection off the walls and ceilings washing out the blacks if I go with an Elite Matte White screen (i'm considering Elite since they seem to be the only ones that make a budget tensioned screen). i know you mentioned with a smaller screen the low rated lumens shouldn't be a problem. any suggestions would be great, thanks!

I think that should work, especially if you use the ceiling mount idea at 10ft rather than the 16ft. The Elite HCG is pretty dark though, 1100 lumen pj might have a hard time giving you a bright image. Keeping it to 92" helps


Quote:
Originally Posted by drcarr /forum/post/0


great thread!

i'm in the same boat as stickyman... i just ordered the Elite Cinetension Matte White 120" screen for my ax100u.

any thoughts on this screen? 19' throw, light controlled room, 15-17' seating.

thanks!

That should be a nice image! Bright!
That screen material has a slight blue push in bright white scenes, so you'll want to adjust for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumoon /forum/post/0


jberylec- Glad to hear you are enjoying your CCW. Very sorry to hear about the VB issues and I hope you get the PJ back soon. After testing a few screens based on your results, I finally settled on the Dalite HCMW - pulldown 106". I'm lovin' it.

Thanks and be sure to post some pics when you get the pj and screen back together.

Glad I could help


Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardstd /forum/post/0


Also looking to purchase screen sometime soon. What I have now is a Panny 900 in a light controlled room that is 12' x 21' - projecting on the 12' section. Throw dist 15' (could change), Seating dist 13' to 18'. Currently testing what screen size I want to stick with. Viewing angle not really an issue I think? I am projecting on the wall painted off-white. I want the best picture I can get. Do I need to sacrifice whites for blacks with my setup?

Thanks for your opinion.

Tim

Yes, you'll have to sacrifice one for the other. How's your light control? That'll decipher how much you'll have to sacrifice
That's the battle I had going on. So I settled for the best compromise: Carada CCW

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliasGS /forum/post/0


i'm also considering Da-Lite HCMW to go with my Epson TW700

light is not controlled daytime but have shades to cover and it almost totally black at night. throw will be 15 ft and seating is 11ft and thinking on 92'' screen. so is it a go?

Sounds like a good set up, however I dont know the specs on that pj. If it's less than 2000 lumens, then keep the throw as short as you can, and the screen size small as well. 92" should be nice for that throw and seating distance.
 
#172 ·
jberylec, thanks for your input. i've decided i not to go with a ceiling mount at 10 feet... too much work involved in getting an outlet installed on the ceiling, and it's pretty hard to cover it back up later on since the ceiling has that stucco(?, it's that bumpy stuff) white paint, potential homebuyers may cringe at that when i decide to sell my place.... , from the sounds of it, i'll need to go with the matte white instead since you've noted that the HCG is pretty dark, and it doesn't sound like the Z5 has enough lumens at 16 ft throw distance.
 
#173 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyman /forum/post/0


jberylec, thanks for your input. i've decided i not to go with a ceiling mount at 10 feet... too much work involved in getting an outlet installed on the ceiling, and it's pretty hard to cover it back up later on since the ceiling has that stucco(?, it's that bumpy stuff) white paint, potential homebuyers may cringe at that when i decide to sell my place.... , from the sounds of it, i'll need to go with the matte white instead since you've noted that the HCG is pretty dark, and it doesn't sound like the Z5 has enough lumens at 16 ft throw distance.

But I think if you stick to 92"-96" and only watch in total darkness (so the image will seem brighter) then you might be ok with the HCG.


On the other hand, you can go with a larger size or longer throw if you choose the matte white because it'll be much brighter, but you'll still want to watch in total darkness because the black levels will suffer from ambient light.


That's why I was on such a mission to find something right in the middle that would allow a large screen size, be bright enough for some daytime viewing, and all while still upholding decent black levels. Gotta love the CCW
 
#175 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jberylec /forum/post/0


But I think if you stick to 92"-96" and only watch in total darkness (so the image will seem brighter) then you might be ok with the HCG.


On the other hand, you can go with a larger size or longer throw if you choose the matte white because it'll be much brighter, but you'll still want to watch in total darkness because the black levels will suffer from ambient light.


That's why I was on such a mission to find something right in the middle that would allow a large screen size, be bright enough for some daytime viewing, and all while still upholding decent black levels. Gotta love the CCW


jberylec, i got a couple of screen samples from elite, they're quite small... so it's pretty hard to determine which would be the better choice.... although i can see the gray does provide better blacks... but i also found that it dulls the colors... so definately a tough decision...
 
#176 ·
Wow, so much info it's hard to decipher whats right for me. So could you please tell me what your pick would be for this setup.


Panny AE900U

Throw distance 15'

The room is painted eggshell black, It will have almost total light control.

I want a 110" fixed screen

The seating area will be just as wide as the screen, but the entrance is off the side of the screen and I would like decent PQ for the occasional visitor.


I have had the projector mounted in a different room for about 6 months while I finish the theater room. I have it projecting on a DIY 70" screen. Silver screen paint on MDF. While I like the texture and whites. The black levels are bad even in complete darkness. So I definitely want a better screen when it comes to black levels.


Thanks.
 
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