For a shortcut to the decision and all followup posts, click HERE !
Updates:
12/27/2006 - Carada CCW Wins! Carada 16:9 Criterion 118" CCW Stay tuned for install photos & notes!
12/13/2006 - Grey Diamond Vein eliminated.
12/11/2006 - Grey Diamond Vein Magic Fabric sample arrives from projectionwholesale.com
12/07/2006 - Carada CCW brought back into testing!
11/27/2006 - Cinema Vision brought back in!
11/27/2006 - Dark greys eliminated *See suggestions below
11/15/2006 - Super high gain (1.5+) samples eliminated!
11/10/2006 - Vutec samples arrive!
11/06/2006 - Severtson samples arrive!
10/30/2006 - Official Testing Starts! Several brand's samples arrive, including DaLite, Carada, Stewart, Draper, Elite, and some DIY materials provided by WilsonArt Laminates!
Screen Sample Requests Never Answered or Received:
(Multiple attempts made to manufacturers & retailers)
DragonFly (snapav.com)
EluneVision (eastporters.com)
Screen Sample Finalists:
(Sorted lightest to darkest)
Carada CCW ( carada.com ) WINNER!
DaLite HCMW ( dalite.com )
DaLite CV ( dalite.com )
Screen Sample Eliminations:
(I want to make it clear that all reviewed screens are very good products, and will work in numerous types of setups and environments, they all have their purpose. Their eliminations from my testing are solely based on my opinions, setup, and environment)
-All Whites reviewed - *See suggestions below
-All Bright Whites reviewed - *See suggestions below
-All Bright Silvers reviewed - Too much gain, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle), dirty whites
-DaLite HCDM - Too dark, dirty whites
-Optoma GrayWolf II - Too much gain, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)
-Stewart FireHawk - Narrow viewing angle, and requires ceiling mounted PJ for consistent brightness, dirty whites
-Draper HCG - Too dark, dirty whites
-Severtson HCG & Ultra - Too dark, dirty whites
-DaLite Pearlescent - Tad bit too dark, dirty whites, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)
-WilsonArt Grey (DIY) - Too dark, dirty whites
-WilsonArt Fashion Grey (DIY) - Too dark, dirty whites
-Elite HCG - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Draper HiDef Grey - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Carada HCG - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Stewart GreyHawk - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Grey Diamond Vein Magic Fabric - Too dark, dirty whites
-DaLite HCCV - Too dark, dirty whites, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)
-DaLite HCMW - Very nice colors & contrast, but pull down material only, not available in fixed frame
-DaLite CV - Tad bit too dark, dirty whites, tad too much brightness fall off
Most super high gain (1.5+) screens have been eliminated, due to their narrow viewing angles. I have a wide seating area. For a detailed review and to read into this in depth, check out this awesome review: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=228371 A big big thank you to Tryg for all the hard work! Much appreciated!
*Suggestions:
For Grey Screens: These are typically used with projectors having low contrast (5000:1 or less) and/or in rooms with ambient light. For this reason the best match would be 2000+ advertised lumens and/or 96" or smaller screen size and/or a short throw (8-10ft). Otherwise you're going to experience a dimmed image and/or see dirty looking whites.
For White Screens: 6,000+ advertised contrast ratio with very good grey scaling and/or complete light control. Otherwise you're going to see greys instead of blacks.
For Bright White Screens: These are typically used with low lumen projectors and/or in rooms with ambient light. The best match would be 6,000+ advertised contrast ratio with very good grey scaling and more importantly you'll want your seating narrower than the projected image. Otherwise you're going to see brightness falloff when viewing from the sides (outside the viewing cone).
*Please remember, these are only my personal opinions, based soley on the below detailed environment, and many many many hours of testing 25+ screen samples
Comparison Photos:
(Shortcuts to all posts containing relevent pics gathered from throughout this thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8841160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8847844
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8848268
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8856289
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9014046
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9014060
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9024750
Original Post:
The Environment: The room is not light controlled, and does have substantial ambient light from one rear lamp, an adjoined room, and two large windows. All walls are glossy off-white, the ceiling is rough textured white.
The Projector & Details: I have a Panasonic PT-AE900U (advertised 1100 lumens, 5500:1 contrast ratio). It's shelf mounted 14ft back, about 1ft above eye level, using no horizontal lens shift, it's centered. Seating distance is at about 13ft from the screen, and the projected image size is exactly 100" diag. The seating is centered with the image area, but is about 3ft wider than the image to either side. The projector is in low lamp, testing is done in both Normal and Cinema1 modes. Testing to date (12/14/06) has spanned through 0 to 500 hours on the bulb.
The Disclaimer: This testing was to find the absolute best screen material based on my personal opinions and in this environment only! I'm looking for the darkest black levels, the brightest whites, and all with the most natural colors! (Aren't we all?!)
Also, because of my wide seating arrangement brightness uniformity is very important.
So, if you're in the same type of environment and looking for a screen, or just interested in reading my opinions...
By all means read on...
I started all this testing with about 40+ screen samples, however some were not even considered due to their nature, for example: audio transparent screens and/or extremely high gain screens for churches/bars, etc.
So it was roughly 25+ samples to begin the quest. Currently it's now narrowed down to about 8 (although this number is constantly changing as more screen samples arive, and others get eliminated. See above updates or follow this thread closely for all details and the actual remaining samples).
I used double sided tape on the back of all the samples to stick them all over the wall, within the image area obviously
I put them up in various locations, cycling them all around every couple of days, eliminating as I went as some screen materials are completely out of the question for this set up.
This testing procedure's accuracy is based on real watching habbits. Daytime television, Nighttime movies, Sunday Football, etc. You can imagine all the stand-up's and sit-downs right? How many times do you think I switch couches, lay down, stand up, move around, on a daily basis? haha! It's all in fun though
I'm keeping a tally sheet, every time myself or another viewer has to say "wow, that one really looks the best", then it gets a tic on the score card! The highest tally count at the end wins! (All viewers are completely made aware that their eyes may play tricks on them, and not to easily focus on the brightest image. But rather, pay attention to the contrast between black & white, also the overall image quality/color purity).
Trust me, I'm very meticulous, and I make sure my viewers are as well
Here are some results: (Much more to come)
I just elminated my samples of Gray Wolf II (they sent two sheets). I have to be completely honest here, I was disappointed. Perhabs because I let myself get so excited about the possibility of a perfect screen! Go figure!
Anyhow, I had already eliminated angular reflective materials such as the FireHawk, because of gain/reflection issues. I was stoked about the Gray Wolf being retro-reflective.
More on the Gray Wolf II...
From one end of the couch to the other there are DRASTIC image brightness changes. The gain is VERY strong in the center (bright scenes completely overpower the whole image), but move to either end of the couch and it's a blacked out image. My couch is only a few inches wider than the image size!
The sweet spot is about 1-2 feet off to either side of the lens. That really is the only watchable position (depending on where I stuck the samples of coarse).
Anyhow, I was really hoping to go with this screen, but testing shows that it just wont work in my set up, there is no uniformity from side to side, nor from top to bottom. I had to eliminate the DaLite Silver Matte, High Power, and the FireHawk for these same reasons.
I still have some major players up on the wall, like the GreyHawk, HCCV, and Elite HCG (along with several others like WilsonArt Grey & Fashion Grey, Carada HCG, DaLite HCMW, HCDM, and Pearlescent). I'm also waiting on samples from many other manufacturers! Can't wait to get those!
I'm keeping all these samples around, so if anyone wants to see pics, I'd be more than happy to take some. I will continue to test and update as needed
Updates:
12/27/2006 - Carada CCW Wins! Carada 16:9 Criterion 118" CCW Stay tuned for install photos & notes!
12/13/2006 - Grey Diamond Vein eliminated.
12/11/2006 - Grey Diamond Vein Magic Fabric sample arrives from projectionwholesale.com
12/07/2006 - Carada CCW brought back into testing!
11/27/2006 - Cinema Vision brought back in!
11/27/2006 - Dark greys eliminated *See suggestions below
11/15/2006 - Super high gain (1.5+) samples eliminated!
11/10/2006 - Vutec samples arrive!
11/06/2006 - Severtson samples arrive!
10/30/2006 - Official Testing Starts! Several brand's samples arrive, including DaLite, Carada, Stewart, Draper, Elite, and some DIY materials provided by WilsonArt Laminates!
Screen Sample Requests Never Answered or Received:
(Multiple attempts made to manufacturers & retailers)
DragonFly (snapav.com)
EluneVision (eastporters.com)
Screen Sample Finalists:
(Sorted lightest to darkest)
Carada CCW ( carada.com ) WINNER!
DaLite HCMW ( dalite.com )
DaLite CV ( dalite.com )
Screen Sample Eliminations:
(I want to make it clear that all reviewed screens are very good products, and will work in numerous types of setups and environments, they all have their purpose. Their eliminations from my testing are solely based on my opinions, setup, and environment)
-All Whites reviewed - *See suggestions below
-All Bright Whites reviewed - *See suggestions below
-All Bright Silvers reviewed - Too much gain, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle), dirty whites
-DaLite HCDM - Too dark, dirty whites
-Optoma GrayWolf II - Too much gain, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)
-Stewart FireHawk - Narrow viewing angle, and requires ceiling mounted PJ for consistent brightness, dirty whites
-Draper HCG - Too dark, dirty whites
-Severtson HCG & Ultra - Too dark, dirty whites
-DaLite Pearlescent - Tad bit too dark, dirty whites, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)
-WilsonArt Grey (DIY) - Too dark, dirty whites
-WilsonArt Fashion Grey (DIY) - Too dark, dirty whites
-Elite HCG - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Draper HiDef Grey - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Carada HCG - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Stewart GreyHawk - Dark Grey *See suggestions below
-Grey Diamond Vein Magic Fabric - Too dark, dirty whites
-DaLite HCCV - Too dark, dirty whites, brightness fall off (narrow viewing angle)
-DaLite HCMW - Very nice colors & contrast, but pull down material only, not available in fixed frame
-DaLite CV - Tad bit too dark, dirty whites, tad too much brightness fall off
Most super high gain (1.5+) screens have been eliminated, due to their narrow viewing angles. I have a wide seating area. For a detailed review and to read into this in depth, check out this awesome review: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=228371 A big big thank you to Tryg for all the hard work! Much appreciated!
*Suggestions:
For Grey Screens: These are typically used with projectors having low contrast (5000:1 or less) and/or in rooms with ambient light. For this reason the best match would be 2000+ advertised lumens and/or 96" or smaller screen size and/or a short throw (8-10ft). Otherwise you're going to experience a dimmed image and/or see dirty looking whites.
For White Screens: 6,000+ advertised contrast ratio with very good grey scaling and/or complete light control. Otherwise you're going to see greys instead of blacks.
For Bright White Screens: These are typically used with low lumen projectors and/or in rooms with ambient light. The best match would be 6,000+ advertised contrast ratio with very good grey scaling and more importantly you'll want your seating narrower than the projected image. Otherwise you're going to see brightness falloff when viewing from the sides (outside the viewing cone).
*Please remember, these are only my personal opinions, based soley on the below detailed environment, and many many many hours of testing 25+ screen samples
Comparison Photos:
(Shortcuts to all posts containing relevent pics gathered from throughout this thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8841160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8847844
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8848268
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8856289
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9014046
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9014060
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9024750
Original Post:
The Environment: The room is not light controlled, and does have substantial ambient light from one rear lamp, an adjoined room, and two large windows. All walls are glossy off-white, the ceiling is rough textured white.
The Projector & Details: I have a Panasonic PT-AE900U (advertised 1100 lumens, 5500:1 contrast ratio). It's shelf mounted 14ft back, about 1ft above eye level, using no horizontal lens shift, it's centered. Seating distance is at about 13ft from the screen, and the projected image size is exactly 100" diag. The seating is centered with the image area, but is about 3ft wider than the image to either side. The projector is in low lamp, testing is done in both Normal and Cinema1 modes. Testing to date (12/14/06) has spanned through 0 to 500 hours on the bulb.
The Disclaimer: This testing was to find the absolute best screen material based on my personal opinions and in this environment only! I'm looking for the darkest black levels, the brightest whites, and all with the most natural colors! (Aren't we all?!)
So, if you're in the same type of environment and looking for a screen, or just interested in reading my opinions...
By all means read on...
I started all this testing with about 40+ screen samples, however some were not even considered due to their nature, for example: audio transparent screens and/or extremely high gain screens for churches/bars, etc.
So it was roughly 25+ samples to begin the quest. Currently it's now narrowed down to about 8 (although this number is constantly changing as more screen samples arive, and others get eliminated. See above updates or follow this thread closely for all details and the actual remaining samples).
I used double sided tape on the back of all the samples to stick them all over the wall, within the image area obviously
This testing procedure's accuracy is based on real watching habbits. Daytime television, Nighttime movies, Sunday Football, etc. You can imagine all the stand-up's and sit-downs right? How many times do you think I switch couches, lay down, stand up, move around, on a daily basis? haha! It's all in fun though
I'm keeping a tally sheet, every time myself or another viewer has to say "wow, that one really looks the best", then it gets a tic on the score card! The highest tally count at the end wins! (All viewers are completely made aware that their eyes may play tricks on them, and not to easily focus on the brightest image. But rather, pay attention to the contrast between black & white, also the overall image quality/color purity).
Trust me, I'm very meticulous, and I make sure my viewers are as well
Here are some results: (Much more to come)
I just elminated my samples of Gray Wolf II (they sent two sheets). I have to be completely honest here, I was disappointed. Perhabs because I let myself get so excited about the possibility of a perfect screen! Go figure!
More on the Gray Wolf II...
From one end of the couch to the other there are DRASTIC image brightness changes. The gain is VERY strong in the center (bright scenes completely overpower the whole image), but move to either end of the couch and it's a blacked out image. My couch is only a few inches wider than the image size!
The sweet spot is about 1-2 feet off to either side of the lens. That really is the only watchable position (depending on where I stuck the samples of coarse).
Anyhow, I was really hoping to go with this screen, but testing shows that it just wont work in my set up, there is no uniformity from side to side, nor from top to bottom. I had to eliminate the DaLite Silver Matte, High Power, and the FireHawk for these same reasons.
I still have some major players up on the wall, like the GreyHawk, HCCV, and Elite HCG (along with several others like WilsonArt Grey & Fashion Grey, Carada HCG, DaLite HCMW, HCDM, and Pearlescent). I'm also waiting on samples from many other manufacturers! Can't wait to get those!
I'm keeping all these samples around, so if anyone wants to see pics, I'd be more than happy to take some. I will continue to test and update as needed