HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

It's a great, great, great combination - the High Power and my Sharp 20k. I watched some more Rick Steves Europe episodes tonight - stunning! I had a guest over and my head was literally about 12" from the projector's lens. In the secondary seating area, where I was, my eyes are literally at exactly the same level as the lens, about a foot to the left. (I gave the guest my normal seat.) I could not be more pleased with this screen. Combine the HP's gain with the Sharp's contrast and you have a wonderfully rich, detailed, bright image.

Happy, happy!!

Hi Joseph,

Something I haven't seen you comment on yet re your Stewart screen vs the High Power: Black levels and image sharpness.

Is there much difference in the depth of the black levels between the two? I would expect the black levels of the FireHawk to be deeper (?). Likewise, the projectorcentral review asserted high gain screens like the SS and HP will have a slightly softer image than the FireHawk. Have you compared to see whether this is the case?

I recently watched the Sharp 20K projector on a 100" Firehawk screen in a store. It was actually the most impressive projected image I've ever seen in terms of sheer sharpness, vibrancy, contrast and black levels. Insanely punchy with great apparent ANSI contrast.

The Sony pearl looked excellent as well, although a little duller and not as high ANSI.

I'm really into good black levels, as I find they make the image look more solid and believable, so one of my concerns with the HP screens is raised black levels. Also, I see rainbows on all 1 chip DLPs so it's almost assuredly some version of Lcos for me - I'm looking at the new JVC HD1 for instance.

Thanks,

Rich H


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post #332 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 12:37 PM
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"one of my concerns with the HP screens is raised black levels. "

There's no more reason to worry about black levels from a gain screen as there is from using a smaller screen and/or a brighter pj w/the same CR.

Noah
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post #333 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 01:33 PM
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The images are far from soft compared to the Firehawk - that's the last thing I'd worry about. They're very crisp. I also have no problem with black level - and I'm picky about that, too. The only advantage that I can see with the Firehawk is that it maintains contrast (not brightness) a little better than the HP as I raise the room lights. I never do that for critical viewing. Rainbows are a non-issue for me; I'm much more sensitive to mis convergence problems caused by 3-chip designs (no matter what the technology).

The HP isn't going to be for everyone. As I keep saying, the high gain viewing cone is very real. But, if your concerns are black level and sharpness, you have nothing to worry about.

Joe Clark

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post #334 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 03:50 PM
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Thanks Joseph and noah.

In my case I also have 2 issues with going HP screen related to projector placement:

1. I have the main wall onto which the image would be projected. Across from the wall would be the sofa, and just behind the sofa there is a cove of bay windows. Obviously I'd use curtains (doing all critical viewing at night anyway). For the HP screen the projector should apparently be somewhat in line with the screen. But aesthetically it just won't fly to put a projector around head height because it would sit hovering right in front of the nice bay window view.

The only way around this I could see would be to have some sort of lift device, with the projector in a cabinet (or whatever) out of site behind the sofa, and it only lifts up into view to the right height when viewing movies. Now, I've seen plenty of devices that do the opposite - e.g. scissor "lifts" the drop down projectors hidden in the ceiling. But so far no devices that do the reverse - actually elevate a projector up from a lower position. Has anyone seen anything that would do this?

2. Then there is the noise factor. I'm looking at the JVC HD1 most likely. However, there's only a few feet behind the viewing sofa and the bay windows behind. This would mean, if the projector is placed as low as recomended for an HP screen, that it will likely be about 8 inches behind the sofa, and then - i dunno - maybe a 1 1/2 feet higher over our head (?) Would this not likely result in fairly objectionable noise from the projector, being so close?

(From having demoed the Sony Pearl it was amazingly quiet and perhaps wouldn't pose a problem, but I'm more interested in the performance offered by the JVC).

Thanks for any wisdom folks can pass this way.

Rich H


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post #335 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 04:21 PM
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I have my Sim2 300e about 1 foot behind me and about 2 feet above me. At first, you notice the sound but after a while you just tune it out. I actually have to listen for it to hear it anymore.
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post #336 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

I have my Sim2 300e about 1 foot behind me and about 2 feet above me. At first, you notice the sound but after a while you just tune it out. I actually have to listen for it to hear it anymore.

Especially the Sharp. I've been around some noisy projectors, but this machine isn't one of them. I sat for a few hours right next to it, and I hardly noticed.

Joe Clark

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post #337 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 04:46 PM
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I wouldn't mind the cost of a Firehawk, but with the RS1 on a 123"diag FH, say, the 700 lumens of the FH only generates ~18 to 20 ftL. And after this decreases by a factor of 2 with lamp aging, I think it will just be too dim. The HiPower generates 2.8/1.25 ~ 2.24 times more ftL provided one can mount it optimally. That's why I'm planning on the HP route.
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post #338 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 08:48 PM
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Joseph,

I don't know of anything specifically, but in principle all you need is a scissors lift on the top shelf.

If the RS1 is too loud, you could put it in a hushbox.

Further complexity to solve the aesthetics problem: Have the pj on the 2nd from the top shelf, on a pullout TV shelf (they make those) to allow the scissors lift to be deployed.

You cover up the pj+hushbox with a false front of books (they make those for staging properties for sdale), which is hinged on one edge for convenience.

Noah
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post #339 of 3787 Old 01-31-2007, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Joseph,

I don't know of anything specifically, but in principle all you need is a scissors lift on the top shelf.

If the RS1 is too loud, you could put it in a hushbox.

Further complexity to solve the aesthetics problem: Have the pj on the 2nd from the top shelf, on a pullout TV shelf (they make those) to allow the scissors lift to be deployed.

You cover up the pj+hushbox with a false front of books (they make those for staging properties for sdale), which is hinged on one edge for convenience.


Noah

I'm not sure which question you're answering but since you brought it up I thought I'd chime in.
I'm also on the prebuy and will be getting a high power, 10' wide. I just bought, last week, a Draper MPL scissor lift. This is a relatively new lift for the lighter weight digital projectors.

http://www.draperinc.com/Lifts_Mount...jectorLift.htm

it weighs only 35lbs and has a capacity of 35lbs and can drop up to 4 feet. The weight of the RS1, a mount bracket and the panamorph UH380 slightly exceeds the capacity but I think it'll be ok. The RS1 will retract into the cherry hushbox I built for my G-15 7 years ago, at least thats the plan.

Rick
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post #340 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 07:09 PM
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Okay, my HP screen finally arrived and I will be installing it tomorrow. It is a permwall custom sized at 127 inches diagonal. Does anyone have any last minute tips to make this go smoother? One question: am I supposed to assemble the frame completely before mounting to the wall? If so, how is it possible for one person to do this after it is assembled?

Thanks.
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post #341 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Garman: I agree that your narrow room is ideal for the HP and its viewing angle. And the long throw also helps wrt the vertical angle. Calculate the angle between the lens of the pj, to the center of the screen, to your eyeball; anything less than 15 deg is ideal.

How does the viewing cone work in the horizontal plane? Your description sounds like it's for the vertical plane as the "center of the screen" wouldn't make sense for the horizontal. Is a seating area as wide as the screen safe?
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post #342 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by milit View Post

Okay, my HP screen finally arrived and I will be installing it tomorrow. It is a permwall custom sized at 127 inches diagonal. Does anyone have any last minute tips to make this go smoother?

Have a blow dryer ready to heat the fabric on the back side of the last corner so it will be more flexible. Getting those last few snaps together can be a real PIA.

Quote:
One question: am I supposed to assemble the frame completely before mounting to the wall?

Yes.

Quote:
If so, how is it possible for one person to do this after it is assembled?

You'll have already installed two lip brackets on the wall, so it's simply a matter of hooking the top of the frame over them, then applying some downward pressure on the frame assembly and marking the holes for the two small tab brackets on the bottom. The assembled frame isn't heavy, but I'd recommend using a helper both to steady a rather awkward load ( standing the frame on the bottom edge during assembly makes it easier to connect the fabric to the frame ), and to ensure that you don't pull the frame off the wall when marking the tab bracket screw positions before drilling.
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post #343 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

Okay, my HP screen finally arrived and I will be installing it tomorrow. It is a permwall custom sized at 127 inches diagonal. Does anyone have any last minute tips to make this go smoother? One question: am I supposed to assemble the frame completely before mounting to the wall? If so, how is it possible for one person to do this after it is assembled?

Thanks.

I think you are supposed to assemble the frame before attaching it to the wall. Would be GREAT to have some pics of your intermediate steps!
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post #344 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rto View Post

You'll have already installed two lip brackets on the wall, so it's simply a matter of hooking the top of the frame over them, then applying some downward pressure on the frame assembly and marking the holes for the two small tab brackets on the bottom.

I think you are thinking about the Cinema Contour frame here. For the Permwall one drills hole in the frame and screws it directly to the wall. There are no 'lip brackets' to hook it over.
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post #345 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I think you are thinking about the Cinema Contour frame here. For the Permwall one drills hole in the frame and screws it directly to the wall. There are no 'lip brackets' to hook it over.

Doh! And I knew mounting a Permwall required drilling through the frame.......guess I need to work on my reading comprehension skills ( or lack thereof )
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post #346 of 3787 Old 02-01-2007, 09:30 PM
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"How does the viewing cone work in the horizontal plane? "

The same, except it's now a compund angle; it's always the angle between the line from the pj to the center of the screen, and the line from the center of the screen to your eyes.

Noah
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post #347 of 3787 Old 02-02-2007, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

Okay, my HP screen finally arrived and I will be installing it tomorrow. It is a permwall custom sized at 127 inches diagonal. Does anyone have any last minute tips to make this go smoother? One question: am I supposed to assemble the frame completely before mounting to the wall? If so, how is it possible for one person to do this after it is assembled?

Thanks.

2 people is best next i located studs in wall . assembled frame made marks where frame was to go. marked on frame where to drill hole to correspond with studs. drilled hole closest to center on top bracket frame . put center screw first then got level made sure top frame level and check with measurements on wall then finish fixing screws on top. next i put a square to inside amid outside corners to make sure all square then screw in bottom near corner i also made a template of wood strip with the exact height so when i screwed in screw on middle of lower frame bracket so it would not droop and the distance from top to bottom was constant next put few screws in side brackets note the sides may not line up with studs so i used wall anchors. all so far was easy just need to be accurate. as far as attaching screen that was physical work. more the one person has said they dripped sweat on screen while trying. may want to wear sweat band i am not kidding. the top snaps go on first and you are supposed to continue around in a circular direction according to dalite and not opposite ends . the first ones are easy then its near impossible if you have canvas pliers it will help or i took a large long nose plier covered the flat jaws with rubber strip grabbed the black border and pulled while my assitent pushed the snap on when i pulled far enough. i didn't use a hair dryer but they said make sure screen is room temp. good luck
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Eric--thanks much for the blow-by-blow, very useful. A question: if one screws in the top and bottom frame pieces as you describe, how necessary is it to screw in the side pieces of the frame? I'm sure it's not necessary to hold the frame on the wall; is it necessary to keep the screen from pulling the sides inward? TIA
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post #349 of 3787 Old 02-02-2007, 05:03 PM
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talked with a THX expert last night that advised against going with a high gain screen. Before I pull the plug here, are you guys who have already bought and intsalled the HP having any regrets or recommendations with reservation?
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post #350 of 3787 Old 02-02-2007, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

talked with a THX expert last night that advised against going with a high gain screen. Before I pull the plug here, are you guys who have already bought and intsalled the HP having any regrets or recommendations with reservation?

Did the Thx expert say why he doesn't recommend hig power? I just got my HP but haven't had the chance to put it all together yet.

Also, I just wanted to say thanks to all who have responded to my questions about installation. I will need all the help I can get.
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post #351 of 3787 Old 02-02-2007, 07:26 PM
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"I talked with a THX expert last night that advised against going with a high gain screen. "

Try a screen expert.

Noah
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post #352 of 3787 Old 02-02-2007, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

talked with a THX expert last night that advised against going with a high gain screen. Before I pull the plug here, are you guys who have already bought and intsalled the HP having any regrets or recommendations with reservation?

I have a reservation about my installation of the High Power. I regret I didn't do it earlier.

Joe Clark

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post #353 of 3787 Old 02-02-2007, 08:24 PM
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Mine just arrived. It's 49" x 116" for around a 2.37:1 ratio. I'll hang it tommorow, but I don't have the RS-1 to test it out!
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post #354 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

Did the Thx expert say why he doesn't recommend hig power? I just got my HP but haven't had the chance to put it all together yet..............

His jist was that the farther away from a plain white screen with a gain of 1.0 you get, the more conservative the requirements become to maximize the screens performance spec. And as you travel back up the video stream [ PJ> processor> player] or consider seating arrangements, the bandwidth of options at your disposal continues to narrow. A bit of a purist, especially when it comes to THX. But I thought his comments were spot on.
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post #355 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Eric--thanks much for the blow-by-blow, very useful. A question: if one screws in the top and bottom frame pieces as you describe, how necessary is it to screw in the side pieces of the frame? I'm sure it's not necessary to hold the frame on the wall; is it necessary to keep the screen from pulling the sides inward? TIA


i had to pull hard to get side snaps snaped so i did put wall anchors and screws as there was no stud there to screw into
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post #356 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

His jist was that the farther away from a plain white screen with a gain of 1.0 you get, the more conservative the requirements become to maximize the screens performance spec. And as you travel back up the video stream [ PJ> processor> player] or consider seating arrangements, the bandwidth of options at your disposal continues to narrow. A bit of a purist, especially when it comes to THX. But I thought his comments were spot on.

While all of this may be true (although I'm not at all sure I understand what it means), it's very much a theoretical argument. How much help would the above comments be if given to address the following situation? "I have a problem. My projector is too dim for the size screen I want to use in my home theater. What are my options?" What action does the THX expert want you to take? Should you buy a 1.0 gain screen? I doubt anyone here would say unilaterally that you should buy the HP if you have plenty of light output from your projector with a 1.0 screen. There is the issue of the viewing cone. I would have lived with the snowy sheen on my Firehawk if it had been bright enough, but it wasn't. Except for a couple of things (viewing cone, contrast in less than optimal conditions), I would never choose the Firehawk over the HP in my world.

I'll take the real world advice of this forum over theoretical arguments that do little to solve problems.

Joe Clark

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post #357 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 04:27 PM
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nuff said. I'll leave it there.
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post #358 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 05:30 PM
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Sorry if that sounded harsh - not my intention. It's just that no screen is going to be ideal for every situation. If my projector were a light canon or I had a wide seating area, I wouldn't want the HP. I think it's pretty hard to argue against a high gain screen like the HP for a situation like mine. That's all I was trying to say.

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post #359 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 05:52 PM
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I would say if the required viewing area is not 'narrow', there is no point in buying HP!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Sorry if that sounded harsh - not my intention. It's just that no screen is going to be ideal for every situation. If my projector were a light canon or I had a wide seating area, I wouldn't want the HP. I think it's pretty hard to argue against a high gain screen like the HP for a situation like mine. That's all I was trying to say.


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post #360 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 06:11 PM
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jarvy: Depends on your projector etc.. Room environment etc.., HP and Sliver Screen by Vutec and other higher gain screens go well with projectors that have a low lumens rating in most cases. I ordered one yesterday, just deciding on the border right now, because I do have some over scan from my projector.
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