HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 125 - AVS Forum
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post #3721 of 3787 Old 03-11-2013, 11:36 AM
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Take a flash picture of the screen standing across the room and in the center of the screen, should glow sort of like this.. however not a bright since this picture is 2.8



This is without flash

Doug

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post #3722 of 3787 Old 03-11-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Take a flash picture of the screen standing across the room and in the center of the screen, should glow sort of like this.. however not a bright since this picture is 2.8



This is without flash

Thanks, I'll try that tonight.

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post #3723 of 3787 Old 03-13-2013, 07:44 PM
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yeah. my 2.8 can be hard to take a pic of. as it just GLOWS.

chasing rattles ......

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post #3724 of 3787 Old 03-16-2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Just adding a data point here. The 110" HCHP screen I recently received has quite a distracting texture. Hard to show in pictures, but it shows up as horizontal & vertical streaks:

...
.

Are these streaks visible when when your projector is running - e.g. showing a uniform field - or only in ambient light?

I have an older 2.8 HP manual pull down screen that has a repeating vertical pattern on the left had side - perhaps due to something on the roller. It is obvious in ambient light - but completely disappears once the projector is switched on.
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post #3725 of 3787 Old 03-23-2013, 09:37 PM
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I'm looking at getting a HP 2.4 gain 133" Cinema contour 2.35:1 screen.

Here are some pics of my proposed setup. I'm just wondering if anyone has any suggestions, particularly regarding the projector placement and seating positions for the HP screen. 99.9% of the time my family will be watching from the back row.

The room is 5.5 meters (18') long, by 4.5 meters (15') wide with an 2.59 meter (8'6") ceiling. The back row's eye level is 15' feet from the screen. The front row is about 10' from the screen.

Side view showing projector placement and seating placement.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/timhet/133daliteside_zpsacd04fcd.jpg

Back seat view of screen.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/timhet/133dalitebackrow_zps654aa2d2.jpg

From the screen looking back:
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/timhet/133dalitefromscreen_zps004ebe8a.jpg

This shows the seating distance is 2-3 screen heights away.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/timhet/133dalitescreenheight_zps07749577.jpg

Back row with masking for a 16:9 image. Equivalent to a 105" screen.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/timhet/133dalitebackrowmasked_zps0a361b22.jpg
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post #3726 of 3787 Old 03-24-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timhet View Post

I'm looking at getting a HP 2.4 gain 133" Cinema contour 2.35:1 screen.

Here are some pics of my proposed setup. I'm just wondering if anyone has any suggestions, particularly regarding the projector placement and seating positions for the HP screen. 99.9% of the time my family will be watching from the back row.

The room is 5.5 meters (18') long, by 4.5 meters (15') wide with an 2.59 meter (8'6") ceiling. The back row's eye level is 15' feet from the screen. The front row is about 10' from the screen.
...

The best placement for the projector (when using the HP screen) is eye level with the viewers - as this minimizes the angle difference between the viewer and the projector - resulting in the highest gain. This is impractical for most theaters. In your case - I would try for just over their heads - on the back wall.
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post #3727 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 12:00 AM
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I haven't seen a HP screen in action so I'm trying to work out all the theories.

I've filled out the spreadsheet and found that I should be getting about 2.1 gain (with the HP 2.4 gain screen) from my viewing position.

So based on the formula: FtL = lumens x screen gain / sq. feet of screen

JVC X35 / RS46 has about 700 calibrated lumens when brand new. The 133" scope screen is the equivalent to a 140" 16:9 screen in terms of width so that equals:

700 lumens x 2.1 gain / 60 sq. feet = 24.5 FtL.

If the standard is 12-16 FtL, then I would imagine this would be a fairly bright image.

However, If I control the manual Iris and use the low lamp mode and get say 500 lumens, then I get 17.5 FtL.

So my question is, given I will be shining a relatively low about of lumens on the screen, with FtL of 17.5 would I expect the colors and black levels to be fairly accurate? Over time, this will dip into that 12-16 FtL range and I can manage the Iris to keep things consistent.
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post #3728 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 05:42 AM
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Any light output at video black will be amplified by the gain of the screen, just like all the rest of the light in the image, so black will be brighter on this screen than a low gain. No matter what the screen fabric, a projector needs to be calibrated off the screen in the actual viewing environment to produce the most accurate image. This will need to be done on a regular basis as the lamp ages. I tweak mine every 500 hours or so.

Doug

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post #3729 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Any light output at video black will be amplified by the gain of the screen, just like all the rest of the light in the image, so black will be brighter on this screen than a low gain. No matter what the screen fabric, a projector needs to be calibrated off the screen in the actual viewing environment to produce the most accurate image. This will need to be done on a regular basis as the lamp ages. I tweak mine every 500 hours or so.

Of course black will not be higher on the HP than it will on a lower gain screen if the projector output is adjusted so that both situations produce the same ftL off the screen.
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post #3730 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 07:52 AM
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Yes, black level will be different between screens with gain and without and you can not adjust it away.
There is only 1 correct brightness setting, that being vidoe 17 visible and video 16 (black) not.
There is always some light even at video 16 and this will be amplified by the screen gain, there is no adjusting this away.
Max output (contrast) can be adjusted so both screen match.
Luck the guy we are talking about has a JVC which has really good black levels to start

Doug

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post #3731 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Yes, black level will be different between screens with gain and without and you can not adjust it away.
There is only 1 correct brightness setting, that being vidoe 17 visible and video 16 (black) not.
There is always some light even at video 16 and this will be amplified by the screen gain, there is no adjusting this away.
Max output (contrast) can be adjusted so both screen match.
Luck the guy we are talking about has a JVC which has really good black levels to start

I'm not sure we are in disagreement, though we're stating things in a different way.

My point was to contradict the frequent statement that a higher gain screen raises the black level. This is true only if one keeps the lumen output of the pj the same when comparing the high and low gain screens. In this case the black level is raised by the higher gain screen, as is the white level; the o/f contrast is not changed. So if one adjusts the lumen output of the pj (e.g., by using a manual iris) so that the ftL coming off the two screens is the same, the the black level (and white level) from the two screens will be the same.

I.e., a increasing the gain of the screen is equivalent to increasing the lumen output of the projector (apart from issues of viewing angle, etc.).

PS Maybe I confused things by referring to the lumen output of the projector as its 'brightness'. Lumen output obviously has nothing to do with adjusting the 'Brightness' (or Contrast) setting, which should always of course be set as you you describe.
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post #3732 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 10:32 AM
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The difference between the video 16 and video 235 (contrast ratio) can be made the same yes.
BUT when sitting in a black room and displaying video 16 which is a 0% pattern, the HP screen will glow brighter than a utility gain screen. This is not a problem for me, but people who buy JVCs live for this light free BLACK FLOOR. Personally I don't get it, if it is that important, turn off the projector and just look at the blackness, after all what does it matter "Oh I can see the black bars!" SO WHAT! I calibrated a JVC for a guy who was obsessed about this and those who are, might not be happy with the increase in gain at this level. Is this a reason not to go with an HP, HELL NO! especially when talking about a BIG screen and a light deprived projector!

Doug

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post #3733 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

....
BUT when sitting in a black room and displaying video 16 which is a 0% pattern, the HP screen will glow brighter than a utility gain screen. ....

Not if the lumen output of the projector has been adjusted (e.g., with a manual iris) so that the ftL off the screen is the same for the two screens. If one keeps the lumen output of the projector the same when comparing the two screens, then yes, 'black' will be higher, as will 'white' (because the ratio of the two, the o/f CR, will be the same); o/f CR (the ratio of 'white' to 'black') is a property of the projector, not the screen.

Stated another way, if one had two projectors with the same o/f CR, using the dimmer projector (which outputs L lumens) with a 2.4 gain screen would be equivalent to using a projector that puts out 2.4*L lumens and with a 1.0 gain screen.

Using a high gain screen is thus a less expensive way (if its configuration works for you) of getting an effective higher lumen projector.
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post #3734 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


Using a high gain screen is thus a less expensive way (if its configuration works for you) of getting an effective higher lumen projector.

So I guess the crux of my decision about buying this screen is if I control the FtL using the combination of a big screen, low lamp mode and manual Iris, then the only downsides of the screen are:
- viewing cone (which is not a concern seeing my family sits in the center 99% of the time and my friends who come over can't even tell the difference if the aspect ratio is wrong so they won't notice light output issues.
- Projector placement being inconvenient. I would prefer to ceiling mount, but I can live with putting the projector on a shelf at the back of the room.
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post #3735 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 08:24 PM
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One other thing you have to deal with is wanting to watch it ALL the time, and there is nothing but reruns on! eek.gif

Doug

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post #3736 of 3787 Old 03-28-2013, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timhet View Post

So I guess the crux of my decision about buying this screen is if I control the FtL using the combination of a big screen, low lamp mode and manual Iris, then the only downsides of the screen are:
- viewing cone (which is not a concern seeing my family sits in the center 99% of the time and my friends who come over can't even tell the difference if the aspect ratio is wrong so they won't notice light output issues.
- Projector placement being inconvenient. I would prefer to ceiling mount, but I can live with putting the projector on a shelf at the back of the room.

Yes. IMHO, if you can configure your projector near optimal for the HP--on a shelf/stand not far above your heads, and the viewing cone is not a problem (as for me)--the HP cannot be beat.
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post #3737 of 3787 Old 05-06-2013, 09:36 PM
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Whats the difference between the dalite high power screen & the high contrast high power screen (other than the 30% vs 20% viewcone). Thanks, eh.

JVC rs4810 (115)
Pioneer Kuro-9gen (50)
Oppo 103d
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post #3738 of 3787 Old 05-07-2013, 12:49 AM
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Is the Da-lite HP an identical screen to the Draper Radiant CT2900E? And both suffering from the very poor QC with streaks, etc.?
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post #3739 of 3787 Old 05-07-2013, 04:20 AM
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Whats the difference between the dalite high power screen & the high contrast high power screen (other than the 30% vs 20% viewcone). Thanks, eh.

HP is white, HCHP is gray
There are lots of newer threads on this subject just do a search in this forum for HP. The current HP screen is not the same material used when this thread was started.

Doug

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post #3740 of 3787 Old 06-06-2013, 09:15 PM
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For anyone interested, my original 2.8 HP screen is available - please see my signature...


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post #3741 of 3787 Old 06-08-2013, 10:06 PM
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What are you replacing it with thrang?

2.35 2.4 High Power....


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post #3742 of 3787 Old 07-26-2013, 12:59 PM
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Question for you 2.4 owners. How is the screen surface texture wise? The 2.8 has none. Is there any visible texture?

Robert Clark
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post #3743 of 3787 Old 07-26-2013, 01:33 PM
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Question for you 2.4 owners. How is the screen surface texture wise? The 2.8 has none. Is there any visible texture?

I think the HP 2.4 is even more texture-free than the 2.8 I had (which was also superb).
Robert Clark likes this.
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post #3744 of 3787 Old 07-27-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I think the HP 2.4 is even more texture-free than the 2.8 I had (which was also superb).
Great thanks. Think I will go up to the 159". I wish there were a size in between my 133" and the 159...

Robert Clark
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post #3745 of 3787 Old 07-27-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark View Post

Great thanks. Think I will go up to the 159". I wish there were a size in between my 133" and the 159...

You can get any size you want. My HP2.4 is a 'hybrid' size, 144x72. Talk to AVS about ordering it.
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post #3746 of 3787 Old 07-27-2013, 11:40 AM
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Wow. Great!

Robert Clark
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post #3747 of 3787 Old 07-27-2013, 03:23 PM
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Yep; mine's 128X62 (splits the difference between 1.78 an 2.35.

Every screen is made to order; they just charge for the next biggest size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

You can get any size you want. My HP2.4 is a 'hybrid' size, 144x72. Talk to AVS about ordering it.

Noah
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post #3748 of 3787 Old 07-27-2013, 03:37 PM
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Noah is the person I visited 7-8 yrs ago, to see his HP screen, when I was just getting into projectors and HT. It convinced me that it would be a good choice for me, and I've never looked back. Thanks again, Noah!
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post #3749 of 3787 Old 07-28-2013, 02:14 PM
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Yikes, it's been 7 yr?!

Anyway, you're most welcome, Bill.

Noah
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post #3750 of 3787 Old 07-28-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
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Yikes, it's been 7 yr?!

Anyway, you're most welcome, Bill.

Yes, it was a JVC RS1, with a HP 2.8 screen, back then. Passed this on to my daughter and son-in-law after 2 yrs and got a RS20. Had it for several years, and have now had a Sony1000ES for a year, with a larger HP2.4 screen.

If you can locate the pj 'low', i.e., to project just over your head (as I can), I don't believe one can do any better for a screen.
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