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post #3811 of 3827 Old 04-22-2016, 05:29 AM
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I will send you a PM with my phone number and we can chat about what you are doing.

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post #3812 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Sorry to drag up an old thread. I am looking to try and get hold of a small sample of the DaLite High Power 2.8 material.

I don't know if you've gotten your sample, if not let me know. In general I concur, looking for a second hand Da-Lite High Power 2.8 screen looks like the best option available to anyone who's interested in getting one of these (I'm seriously considering getting back in touch with some of my old customers to see if I they still have one, because I'd like to have a bigger one myself).


Although I'm in danger of beating a dead horse, just a friendly reminder to anyone interested in an HP 2.8 screen, because I saw it hardly mentioned:


You will only enjoy the increased brightness return from an HP 2.8 screen if your projector is table, shelf or floor mounted (i.e. you are sitting rather close to the projection lens).


Should your projector be ceiling mounted the HP 2.8 screen will do little or nothing compared to a 1.0 gain screen!






In the above illustration (couldn't find a better one) you'll see the HP 2.8 reflection behavior sort of represented in the center illustration. The microscopic glass beads or pearls are spherical and as such will reflect more light back to the center of origin.


Should your front projector be ceiling mounted, you'll only notice the increase of reflected brightness when you stand up and find yourself close to the projector lens.


Simply put:
If your front projector is table or floor mounted the picture will be considerably brighter with an HP 2.8.


If your front projector is ceiling mounted, you may consider selling your HP 2.8 screen for a good price and instead choose one that's really optimal for your own projection.

"It is only about things that do not interest one that one can give a really unbiased opinion, which is no doubt the reason why an unbiased opinion is always absolutely valueless." Oscar Wilde

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post #3813 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank714 View Post
I don't know if you've gotten your sample . . .
I did, yes, thanks.

In the end though I couldn't source any of the actual material, and ended up buying some of the 2.4 material from a member of this forum, and to be honest I'm glad I did.

My projector is not in the perfect position for a retro-reflective screen, being sited at around 5ft high (rather than seated head height), so I was getting a gain of around 2.0 off the HP 2.8 sample. With the HP 2.4 screen now installed I get around 2.05 gain, so slightly higher, and with the added advantage of not having the slight 'sheen' I saw to bright areas when examining the HP 2.8 sample.
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post #3814 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 04:33 AM
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Hello!!! There are ready-made of fabric -8803H,YSL 101,RS 822 and other properties to reflect light to the source.But in contrast to the white screens Da-lite HP ,grey fabric(not metal) and the projection as a black color-Black screen.-15$
DIY black screen tests
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post #3815 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 08:00 AM
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good news (and bad news) for Da-Lite high power fans

There has been a discussion in the DIY screen section recently of retroreflective fabric available from China. Go to the DIY screen area and find the thread titled DIY black screen tests. Read the last five pages or so. Warning: some of the thread contributors are not native English speakers. A few of the posts may be hard to interpret. Pay special attention to post #1225 from ericglo. This post contains links to the company selling the special fabric, Road-Star China.

Briefly: the fabric is dirt cheap and has striking affinities with the material used by Da-Lite for the now-unavailable High Power 2.8 screen. That is the good news. The bad news is that the fabric gain drops off axis even more rapidly than the old 2.8 high power material. The traditional criticism of Da-Lite high power screens is that they have an unacceptably narrow viewing cone for optimal high-gain. Unless you sit smack dab in the middle of the screen width, with your projector mounted pretty close to eye level, the special high gain property is lost. The Road-Star China fabric suffers from the same problem, but is worse than the Da-lite 2.8 screen.

I have been watching movies on a Da-Lite High Power 2.8 screen that is six feet tall and eight feet wide for about seven or eight years. My screen is 120" diagonal 4:3, 110" 16.9, and 104" in the 2.35:1 Cinemascope aspect ratio. I use an old Marantz VP-12S4 720p projector in a bat-cave basement room, with the projector mounted on a stand a few feet above my seated eyeball level and a few feet behind my seating position.

My screen is great for older 4:3 movies, very good for 16:9 material, but not big enough for 2.35:1 movies. I have tried to find a larger used 2.8 or 2.4 High Power screen for some time without any luck. Large used High Power screens are scarce. So I purchased a piece of the Road-Star fabric.

The fabric is ordinarily sold in a piece that is 56" tall by 118" wide for $58 plus $2 shipping. I corresponded with a Ms. Tina Wang of Road-Star, and asked for something larger. The 56" height was the maximum available, but Ms. Wang sent me a piece that was close to 133" wide instead of the ordinary 118" width. I asked that it be sent to me rolled up on a mailing tube instead of folded, so I was charged an extra $20. I now have a screen that is close to 144" diagonal in the 2.35 ratio. For $80 shipped. Shipping took a week or two.

I used thumbtacks to attach the fabric to my matte-black painted rear wall behind the area where my Da-Lite screen is mounted. So the Road-Star fabric was about two inches behind the Da-Lite. Then I rolled the Da-Lite screen up so that the projected image was Da-Lite upper half, and Road-Star lower half. With the room lights turned on, the Da-Lite looked white, and the Road-Star was silver gray. I did not attempt to stretch the Road-Star fabric taut.

Some unscientific first impressions: from my usual viewing position, the Road-Star fabric seemed to have slightly higher gain than the Da-Lite. But they looked very similar. I have middle-aged eyes and wear glasses. I also have some color blindness. I am most definitely not a connoisseur of subtle differences between screens and projectors. So please take my impressions with more than a few grains of salt.

Having said that, the dirt cheap fabric quickly tacked to the wall looked GREAT!

If you usually watch alone, the narrow viewing cone is no problem. Likewise if you watch with one other person. With three people, the reduction in gain for the two outlying viewers may not be acceptable. I don't know.

Imagine a plasma television that is close to four and a half feet tall and eleven feet wide. That costs $80 plus the cost of your projector. But a plasma television that is only suitable for one or two centrally seated viewers in a dark room with your projector mounted close to eye level. In case I have not made it clear so far, I am extremely happy with my new screen, and look forward to re-watching many old favorite films.

I just watched the Guillermo Del Toro movie Pacific Rim (merely 16:9 aspect ratio) on the new Road-Star China fabric screen. With the sound turned up loud enough to make my wife complain about things shaking upstairs. A movie made by people who love monsters and giant robots for people who love monsters and giant robots.

I was in eye-candy hog heaven.

A BIG THANKS to our Russian brother HCORE for having discovered this wonderful screen material!

Joel Dickman
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post #3816 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joel dickman View Post
There has been a discussion in the DIY screen section recently of retroreflective fabric available from China. . . .
Interesting detail their Joel.

A couple of questions, are there any visible artefacts on the projected image at all? e.g any sparklies, shimmer or sheen?

How to the black levels compare to your HP 2.8? Are they similar or do dark areas appear darker?
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post #3817 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by HCORE View Post
Hello!!! There are ready-made of fabric -8803H,YSL 101,RS 822 and other properties to reflect light to the source.But in contrast to the white screens Da-lite HP ,grey fabric(not metal) and the projection as a black color-Black screen.-15$
DIY black screen tests

First of all my compliments to your various tests and research efforts, very inspiring!


I'm really tempted to order myself to do some experimentation, too, but which is the fabric that has thus far yielded the most impressive results? It is RS 822, is it not?
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post #3818 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I did, yes, thanks.

In the end though I couldn't source any of the actual material, and ended up buying some of the 2.4 material from a member of this forum, and to be honest I'm glad I did.

My projector is not in the perfect position for a retro-reflective screen, being sited at around 5ft high (rather than seated head height), so I was getting a gain of around 2.0 off the HP 2.8 sample. With the HP 2.4 screen now installed I get around 2.05 gain, so slightly higher, and with the added advantage of not having the slight 'sheen' I saw to bright areas when examining the HP 2.8 sample.
I also had to go with HP2.4 from HP2.8 3-5 yrs ago when I wanted a larger screen (now 6'x12') and 2.8 was no longer available. But like you, I like the 2.4 version even better (though I was very happy with the earlier 2.8); I think it does give a slightly smoother pic.
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post #3819 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 11:46 AM
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Frank714 (8803H,YSL 101,RS 822)the fabric is very similar,selected for high gain and darker.Have a minimum of differences.
I apologize for the messed up English.(google translator)
Make the top layer ,will extend the viewing angle to a certain me,you can pick up - very wide angle,40-45,20-35 from the axis.I'm working on it,the layer is very thin to apply.I will share results method(formula mix).Decided to use RS 822(only as a black layer)+layer from the mixture(this is a thin transparent layer)...To be continued..
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post #3820 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 12:10 PM
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From reading the description of RS 822 it consists of glass beads glued to the surface of a cloth backing. This is the way that traditional glass bead screens are constructed. The downside is that glass beads glued to the surface can come loose and fall off with wear and tear. The advantage of the HP screen material was that the glass beads were embedded in a translucent layer adhered to the fabric backing. This made HP more durable and less subject to individual glass beads coming off.
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post #3821 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Interesting detail their Joel.

A couple of questions, are there any visible artefacts on the projected image at all? e.g any sparklies, shimmer or sheen?

How to the black levels compare to your HP 2.8? Are they similar or do dark areas appear darker?

I cannot detect any shimmer or sparkly artefacts on either the Da-Lite or the Road-Star screens. If I poke my head up into the projected light cone and create a head-shaped shadow in the middle of the screen, the image looks rather strange. Hard to describe. Maybe I get what others call hot-spotting when I do this. But I cannot get this hot-spotting effect when seated in my normal viewing position. Although the Road-Star screen is silver gray (with the room lights turned on) and the Da-Lite screen is white, they look very similar when watching movies. Dark areas look equally dark on both screens.


My wife watches movies with me in my basement batcave once in a blue moon. She prefers watching various cable television shows on an LG plasma upstairs. So I mostly watch alone, and thus the narrow viewing cone of the Road-Star fabric is no big deal. If you love the look of a gigantic plasma television, and like me are a (mostly) solitary cinemaphile, the Road-Star fabric is well worth trying. If you like viewing with larger groups of people, the Road-Star screen will probably not be to your liking. Only the viewer(s) in the central sweet spot are going to get the impact of the very bright and punchy image.


It is certainly the best $80 I have ever spent on anything related to audio or video. I only wish it was available in a height greater than 56". I would cover my whole basement wall with the stuff, floor to ceiling. If I did this, I would likely want to replace my faithful old Marantz projector with something newer and brighter. My VP-12S4 is no light cannon.


Joel Dickman
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post #3822 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
From reading the description of RS 822 it consists of glass beads glued to the surface of a cloth backing. This is the way that traditional glass bead screens are constructed. The downside is that glass beads glued to the surface can come loose and fall off with wear and tear. The advantage of the HP screen material was that the glass beads were embedded in a translucent layer adhered to the fabric backing. This made HP more durable and less subject to individual glass beads coming off.


If you use the link posted by ericglo to visit the AliExpress page describing the Road-Star fabric and scroll down a little bit, there is a technical description area. The fabric is supposed to have a coating of some kind over the glass beads. I have not touched the surface of the material, but it does not seem fragile to me. It may even be possible to wash it in a washing machine.


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post #3823 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 01:08 PM
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joel dickman possible to wash it in a washing machine.YES!
Fabric for special clothes(high ,wear resistance) police and road services...
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post #3824 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joel dickman View Post
There has been a discussion in the DIY screen section recently of retroreflective fabric available from China. Go to the DIY screen area and find the thread titled DIY black screen tests. Read the last five pages or so. Warning: some of the thread contributors are not native English speakers. A few of the posts may be hard to interpret. Pay special attention to post #1225 from ericglo. This post contains links to the company selling the special fabric, Road-Star China.

Joel Dickman
Good job, Joel.

That is unfortunate that they can't provide a greater height. I kind of figured that they could do greater lengths, so at least a 2.35 could be large.

I literally just wiped mine down and folded it up. The father of the High Power (Darin) asked me to bring it to Cedia. Hopefully a lot of us can take a look at it and give some detailed opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
From reading the description of RS 822 it consists of glass beads glued to the surface of a cloth backing. This is the way that traditional glass bead screens are constructed. The downside is that glass beads glued to the surface can come loose and fall off with wear and tear. The advantage of the HP screen material was that the glass beads were embedded in a translucent layer adhered to the fabric backing. This made HP more durable and less subject to individual glass beads coming off.
I just scratched the edge of mine and didn't see any beads come off. I also wiped it down with a damp cloth and it look fine.

Current projector - JVC RS25 and Marantz VP15S1
Future projector - pre-ordered new JVC from AVScience
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post #3825 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joel dickman View Post
If you use the link posted by ericglo to visit the AliExpress page describing the Road-Star fabric and scroll down a little bit, there is a technical description area. The fabric is supposed to have a coating of some kind over the glass beads. I have not touched the surface of the material, but it does not seem fragile to me. It may even be possible to wash it in a washing machine.


Joel Dickman
I had only looked at the Road-Star site description, which is nowhere near as detailed as the one on AliExpress. That's an impressive "sandwich" of back cloth, adhesive layer, reflective aluminum layer, glass bead protective layer and glass bead layer all covered with transparent PET film. If all done properly with the right materials it certainly should have the potential to perform well with good durability. The devil is often in the details.

In the DIY Black Screens Tests thread the main concern appears to be a narrow viewing cone. But that's pretty standard for retroreflective screen material, and is perfectly acceptable for those who view alone or perhaps with only one or two others. At the asking price of <$100 I could see it potentially being the best available inexpensive HP material option to date, at least for those who are OK with buying or making their own screen frames.

It's great to hear that Ericglo is taking this material to Cedia for some knowledgeable people to view and evaluate. I just posted in the DIY Black Screens Tests thread that it's a shame that RS-822 doesn't have its own thread entitled DIY Retroreflective Screen Tests as it's obviously not a black screen.
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post #3826 of 3827 Old 09-13-2016, 05:28 PM
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Great to hear of a successor to the late, great High Power, but a shame that its so small! Wonder if the seam would be too visible if you laid one layer staggered over another...

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post #3827 of 3827 Old 09-19-2016, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank714 View Post
[B]You will only enjoy the increased brightness return from an HP 2.8 screen if your projector is table, shelf or floor mounted (i.e. you are sitting rather close to the projection lens).

Should your projector be ceiling mounted the HP 2.8 screen will do little or nothing compared to a 1.0 gain screen!
This is a bit of an overgeneralization.

My pj is 7' from the floor, so close to ceiling mounted, and I'm getting about 1.9 gain, along with the HP's other advantages of no hotspotting, immunity to waves, and ambient light rejection.

It does however have a 22' throw, which helps.
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