HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3787 Old 02-03-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raminolta View Post

I would say if the required viewing area is not 'narrow', there is no point in buying HP!

I think I'd agree with that in general. If you had a wide seating area for a High Power screen, your guests would have a very different viewing experience depending on where they sat. The exception would be a wide and deep room, where more people could sit within the cone (such as Tryg's room at the beginning of this thread).

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post #362 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 08:49 AM
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just to set the record straight guys, I've already ordered a HP. It just happens that it fits my viewing environment to a tee. The THX guys' comment was basically a well placed caution flag to me and nothing more. I thought I would pass it on to you all as practicle wisdom for those still on the fence. And Joe, I've read enough of your posts to know that you're not in here trying to put anybody down. We're cool.
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post #363 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 09:37 AM
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I requested samples from Da Lite. The rep that responded was Damian, don't remember the last name. He requested more info about my set up and said he sent me a sample of video spectra as well, said its only 1.5 gain but its more suitable for ceiling mount, which, I need.
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post #364 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 01:56 PM
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Can someone that has a 133" HP with the Cinema Contour frame post a picture of it? I'm debating over whether to get the Permwall or CC frame, the question being whether or not the 3" border of the CC frame will be too 'overwhelming' with that size. (Post # 324 above has a nice pic of a 133" Permwall screen.)
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post #365 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

just to set the record straight guys, I've already ordered a HP. It just happens that it fits my viewing environment to a tee. The TXH guys' comment was basically a well place caution flag to me and nothing more. I thought I would pass it on to you all as practicle wisdom for those still on the fence. And Joe, I've read enough of your posts to know that you're not in here trying to put anybody down. We're cool.


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post #366 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Can someone that has a 133" HP with the Cinema Contour frame post a picture of it? I'm debating over whether to get the Permwall or CC frame, the question being whether or not the 3" border of the CC frame will be too 'overwhelming' with that size. (Post # 324 above has a nice pic of a 133" Permwall screen.)

I have a 110" HP, and it's not overwhelming for the smaller size. It replaces a very similar Stewart frame, and I think it adds a beautiful accent to the screen. From what I've read, it also might be even easier to install than the Permwall. When I removed the frame mounting hardware, I thought they had neglected to put in some parts - it's that simple. Basically, it includes a top bar about 3' long that provides a "lip" that juts out after attaching it with 6 screws/anchors. Get that level and the frame will be level - very easy. The screen just slips onto that bar and the bottom attaches with two small brackets (two screws each).

I tried to take a picture of the CC, but the bounce from the flash just kills the auto exposure control on my camera and all you see is the screen surrounded by darkness - a good lesson in how much light bounces straight back from the HP to the light source. My whole room is dark, so even without a flash you can't get a clear idea of how it looks.

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post #367 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 03:24 PM
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Joe, Thanks for the comments. Yes, from reading Dalite's info it certainly does sound like it is easier to mount the Cinema Contour than the Permwall. With the CC, it sounds like once the mounting bracket is on the wall, you can slide the screen a few inches to the left or right to fine tune the position (before you screw down the bottom brackets).

Re the CC or PW frame, I suppose my real concern is whether the CC frame would be too much for my wall more than for the screen itself. The wall on which the screen will go is 100" H and 150" W. A 133" screen (116" W) will thus leave 17" to the L and R of the screen area, and about the same amount above and below. I can't decide whether adding another 3" border will make the wall look 'too full'. If I were to go with a 119" HP (104" W)--I still haven't decided between 199" or 133" (trying to put off the final choice until I throw the RS1's pic onto a sheet on the wall)--then I would definitely go with a CC frame since there would be much more space around the screen is this case.
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post #368 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 05:28 PM
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I spent the last day or so trying to install my HP permwall and I am not having much success at all. I guess I should have fastened the screen to the frame while it was still on the floor. I attached the frame to the wall as per instructions but attaching the screen to the frame is/was subsequently impossible. Anyway, I finally gave up and attached the bottom and one side with velcro. I guess I will have to remove the frame and attach the screen while on the floor and then re-install the fully assembled frame/screen. Not looking for sympathy, but last week I fractured a bone in my right thumb and, being right handed, I just couldn't grip the screen in the manner necessary. But I suspect that even if I had full use of my right hand, I still wouldn't be able to snap on those fasteners while attached to the wall.

On a positive note, after I did the patch job with the velcro, I watched a couple of movies. Man, HP ROCKS!!. I only wish I had bought one sooner. I can't imagine how any home theatre could be complete without one.
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post #369 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 06:29 PM
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Good you got something positive out of it Milit Hey Joe, how do you think the CC will look with a 92" screen? Too big?
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post #370 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

I spent the last day or so trying to install my HP permwall and I am not having much success at all.

My HP perm-wall got here Friday and I've got the frame assembled. I know that the screen just screws right into the wall, but for ease of tensioning the material on the ground, hanging the screen level then being able to adjust it sideways by several inches, and ease of removal, I'm going to use a heavy duty picture hanger.



I'll just screw in the smaller part to the frame then the bigger part in the wall. The screws it comes with are anchorless too, so its ready to rock. I think this is the same way their cinema counter screen mounts, but for only $16 bucks for the 30" 300 pound one, it's a no brainier. Link
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post #371 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

Good you got something positive out of it Milit Hey Joe, how do you think the CC will look with a 92" screen? Too big?

Not at all. It should look great.

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post #372 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagercola View Post

My HP perm-wall got here Friday and I've got the frame assembled. I know that the screen just screws right into the wall, but for ease of tensioning the material on the ground, hanging the screen level then being able to adjust it sideways by several inches, and ease of removal, I'm going to use a heavy duty picture hanger.



I'll just screw in the smaller part to the frame then the bigger part in the wall. The screws it comes with are anchorless too, so its ready to rock. I think this is the same way their cinema counter screen mounts, but for only $16 bucks for the 30" 300 pound one, it's a no brainier. Link

Great idea. You'll probably have to shim it out at the bottom, or your screen will tilt out a little. My Stewart screen was offset from the wall with its mounting system. One thing about the CC is that if you any protruding objects behind the screen, you'll need to get rid of them or shim the mounting hardware. The CC ordinarily mounts flat against the wall.

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post #373 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagercola View Post

My HP perm-wall got here Friday and I've got the frame assembled. I know that the screen just screws right into the wall, but for ease of tensioning the material on the ground, hanging the screen level then being able to adjust it sideways by several inches, and ease of removal, I'm going to use a heavy duty picture hanger.



I'll just screw in the smaller part to the frame then the bigger part in the wall. The screws it comes with are anchorless too, so its ready to rock. I think this is the same way their cinema counter screen mounts, but for only $16 bucks for the 30" 300 pound one, it's a no brainier. Link

I thought that the reason you needed to screw the Permwall frame firmly to the wall was because the screen pulled to tightly over it, and the 1x1 aluminum tube so flimsy, that the frame would not stay straight and square unless it was screwed down tightly to the wall. I.e., I didn't think it was possible to attach the screen to the frame unless it was already screwed down firmly on the wall.

So please let us hear if indeed you can attach the screen first and hang it as you suggest.
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post #374 of 3787 Old 02-04-2007, 07:50 PM
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i think the frame will flex if you attach it first. I needed to use plier to grip the black border to get enough strenth to pull see previous post for details
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post #375 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 06:59 AM
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Couple pics of my 133" da-snap frame if anyones interested.

Close up of frame with the pro-trim option. The da-snap frame is 1.5" wide.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/P1010442.JPG

In this pic you'll see why I chose the da-snap frame...going with it over the cinema contour or imager saved me about 3" in height which is important when you have fairly low ceilings, a big center channel, and a BIG screen.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/P1010441.JPG

I don't regret getting the da-snap/high power combo one bit...I love it and expect it to get even better when I replace my 13hd with the RS-1.

That said...the hp's not the one screen fit's all solution but if your room allows you to use it...go for it.
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post #376 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 08:18 AM
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Ken, Wow, that is a close fit; see why you needed every inch. But it certainly looks nice!
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post #377 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 09:05 AM
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Ken, Re the da-shap frame; does it have the velvet-like 'pro-trim' convering on the frame? Tx, Bill

edit: Oops, just read your above note more carefully! You DO have the pro-trim option; looks nice!
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post #378 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 09:13 AM
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What is the difference in the width of the frame, between the CC and the PW?

I am installing in a shadow box that I built that is 111" wide, and if I went with the 104" wide screen material, and had 3" of frame on either side, I would end up at 110. I am wondering if that is too close for comfort?

Phil
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post #379 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Ken, Re the da-shap frame; does it have the velvet-like 'pro-trim' convering on the frame? Tx, Bill

Yes it does and I HIGHLY recommend getting it...I consider it money well spent for sure. Whats nice about the pro-trim option is it allows me to zoom out so the image extends beyond the actual screen material slightly. By doing this it hides the irregularities with the edges on some source material.

In the closeup pic my camera's flash doesn't even light up the Pro-Trim in the least. That stuff really sucks up the light.
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post #380 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWH View Post

Yes it does and I HIGHLY recommend getting it...I consider it money well spent for sure. Whats nice about the pro-trim option is it allows me to zoom out so the image extends beyond the actual screen material slightly. By doing this it hides the irregularities with the edges on some source material.

In the closeup pic my camera's flash doesn't even light up the Pro-Trim in the least. That stuff really sucks up the light.

Ken, Yes, I saw in your earlier post that you got the pro-trim; I would certainly do the same, and especially in light of your supporting testimony! I do like the smaller width of the da-shap frame; it is not as 'imposing' as the larger Cinema Contour.

Another question: some people have commented that the square da-snap frame can shadow the picture in some setups (e.g., if the pj is located a sizeable above the screen). In my case the pj will be right near the center of the screen, so I shouldn't have any problem in this regard. Do you have any comments on this issue?
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post #381 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Ken, Yes, I saw in your earlier post that you got the pro-trim; I would certainly do the same, and especially in light of your supporting testimony! I do like the smaller width of the da-shap frame; it is not as 'imposing' as the larger Cinema Contour.

Another question: some people have commented that the square da-snap frame can shadow the picture in some setups (e.g., if the pj is located a sizeable above the screen). In my case the pj will be right near the center of the screen, so I shouldn't have any problem in this regard. Do you have any comments on this issue?

Yes I have also heard/read about the chance shadowing due to the non-tapered corners of the da-snap. Seems to me the most shadow susceptible installs would be the ones where the pj has to be mounted outside of the borders of the frame and as such the install needs/uses a lot of offset, lens shift or keystoning to get the image on to the screen.

If your pj's lens falls inside the frame borders...then I don't think you'll have any problems with shadowing. My pj is ceiling mounted but the lens still falls inside the borders of the frame and I don't get any shadowing at all.

Hope this helps.

edit:
Just to clarify my install. The center line of my lens is maybe 4" to 5" inside the top of the frame. So even with my lens being that close to the top edge of the frame I still don't have any shadows.
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post #382 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWH View Post

Yes I have also heard/read about the chance shadowing due to the non-tapered corners of the da-snap. Seems to me the most shadow susceptible installs would be the ones where the pj has to be mounted outside of the borders of the frame and as such the install needs/uses a lot of offset, lens shift or keystoning to get the image on to the screen.

If your pj's lens falls inside the frame borders...then I don't think you'll have any problems with shadowing. My pj is ceiling mounted but the lens still falls inside the borders of the frame and I don't get any shadowing at all.

Hope this helps.

edit:
Just to clarify my install. The center line of my lens is maybe 4" to 5" inside the top of the frame. So even with my lens being that close to the top edge of the frame I still don't have any shadows.

Very good. This makes sense, and as noted, my pj will be very close to the center of the screen, so shouldn't be an issue.
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post #383 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

What is the difference in the width of the frame, between the CC and the PW?

I am installing in a shadow box that I built that is 111" wide, and if I went with the 104" wide screen material, and had 3" of frame on either side, I would end up at 110. I am wondering if that is too close for comfort?

Phil,

Sorry it took me so long to reply to your post.

Example:
A 110" diagonal 16x9 perm-wall is 58" x 100" overall and the cinema contour is 60"x102". The two inch size difference each way should remain constant regardless of screen size.

In comparison a 110" da-snap is 57"x99".

Again all sizes stated above are 16x9(hdtv) aspect ratio.

For more info on the specific frames:
http://www.da-lite.com/products/index.php?cID=20

For overall dimensions click on the "product information" link for each frame.

Btw...Da-Lite can make custom sizes and aspect ratio's for most of their frame/screen combo's. You might get with Jason or Tryg for more info on custom sizing and ANY pricing.

EDIT for Phil,
If your opening is 111" wide you could fit a 119" diagonal(viewable) da-snap in there and have an inch of width to play with. You didn't say how tall your opening is but you'd need at least 65" in height to mount it. Overall size for a 119" viewable da-snap is 110"X64". You need at least an inch of vertical clearance above to allow clearance to slip the frame over the hangers.
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post #384 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 11:48 AM
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Thanks Ken, I am planning the fixed screen for the other theater. I have a retractable high power coming this week, for my home. I can't wait to see how it looks with my 20K.

Phil
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post #385 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 06:08 PM
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FINALLLY!!! After several hours of huffing, puffing, cussing and sweating I was finally able to attach the last dozen or so fasteners. I have had intense weight training routines that were easier. To get the last three, I used a blow dryer to entice the material to stretch a couple of milimeters. I really appreciate all the help from everyone who posted their suggestions on this board. Now I can sit back and enjoy the fruits of my labour. HP screens ROCK!! PERIOD!!! For those who are contemplating buying a new screen, PLEASE do whatever you have to do to audition a HP screen before you place your order. I guarantee you will love what you see. BTW, for those who think that black level will suffer due to the brightness of the screen, worry no more. In fact, I swear my black levels have actually improved. It is true however, that to get the best from this screen you really have to live within the "sweet spot" AKA the dreaded cone. If you are willing to do that, you will be stunned.
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post #386 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Very good. This makes sense, and as noted, my pj will be very close to the center of the screen, so shouldn't be an issue.

Interesting. Mine is mounted on a Chief extension post, 13.5 feet back, with the lens exactly centered on the screen. My room was too long for the max throw of the Pearl, so a shelf mount at the rear was a non-starter. I placed a large set of shelves sized for LPs ( what can I say ) behind the sofa, in part, to keep people from slamming their heads into the projector, since it's mounted relatively low, and so I can lower it further and increase effective gain as the bulb ages......hardly ideal aesthetically, but functionally perfect.
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post #387 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rto View Post

Interesting. Mine is mounted on a Chief extension post, 13.5 feet back, with the lens exactly centered on the screen. My room was too long for the max throw of the Pearl, so a shelf mount at the rear was a non-starter. I placed a large set of shelves sized for LPs ( what can I say ) behind the sofa, in part, to keep people from slamming their heads into the projector, since it's mounted relatively low, and so I can lower it further and increase effective gain as the bulb ages......hardly ideal aesthetically, but functionally perfect.

One deals with their own room and its idiosyncracies as they are! In my case, it's basically just my wife and I: we have 2 recliners, with a narrow table between us, and the pj is on a stand just behind this table, about 1.5 ft above our heads and just behind them. Should be ideal for the HP screen. This will be my first front projection setup, so I quite excited waiting for the new JVC RS1 to arrive. Haven't yet decided between a 119" or 133" diag HP, viewing it from ~ 12.5 ft away; will wait untl I actually can show the pj on the wall to make this final decision.
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post #388 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Thanks Ken, I am planning the fixed screen for the other theater. I have a retractable high power coming this week, for my home. I can't wait to see how it looks with my 20K.

Your Sharp 20000 will look STUNNING! Contrast drips off the screen and onto the floor. You'll need a wet shop vac. I've been staying up way too late since I got the new screen and the 20k up and running. And the Sharp still isn't even calibrated - still some cabling issues to work out before that happens.

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post #389 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 08:11 PM
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Here are some shots of the HP setup in my home theater. The screen shot is blown out because the screen bounced the light directly back to the lens, leaving the surroundings extremely dark. You can see the screen better in the shot of the speakers beneath it. The Sharp 20k projector is mounted against the back wall of the 11x17 room, on a Chief telescoping pole. I used to have the projector sitting in the shelf that the mount is now attached to. If I need the extra seat, I can remove the telescoping pole and attach the projector to a shorter 3" pole that I also ordered. It takes about 5 minutes. You lose some gain, but not as much as putting it back in the shelf. In this configuration, I can use the Sharp's High Contrast/Low Lamp mode to save lamp life and dramatically improve the projector's contrast. From the main seating area (used for over 98% of our viewing anyway), the lens is no more than about 1 1/2 feet from our eyes, up/down/left/right.

I still have some cosmetic work to do on the room after the minor surgery of a new screen and new projector. I just can't pull myself away from watching this new setup.
LL
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LL

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post #390 of 3787 Old 02-05-2007, 08:18 PM
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BTW, I've sat in the seats right next to the Sharp when guests have been over, and my eye level is almost exactly even with the lens. The noise from the Sharp, surprisingly, doesn't bother me much at all even there, much less in the main seating area. Gain just doesn't get any higher for an HP than from a position like this. I could have moved the couch forward a little and put the projector on a shelf, saving the cost of the Chief mount, but I like the mount better for my room.

Joe Clark

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