HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3787 Old 02-13-2007, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smile View Post

As to uniformity of gain, I posted this elsewhere thou w/ no interest. It fits this topic so,

How to calculate the gain to your seating position.

The circumference of a disc is pi times the diameter,

So 12' from the screen 3.14 (2 * 12)= 3.14 * 24= 75.36'
A degree is 1/360 so 15 dg is (75/360*15) = 3.1'

According to this Da Lite chart gain is down to 1.4 only 15dg off axis. http://www.audiogeneral.com/DaLite/...untensioned.gif

Therefore, at 12' from the screen, the perfectly centered chair sees a 2.8 gain while the chair beside it only sees a 1.4 gain. Similarly, the edges of the screen will be dramatically different gain from front and center.
Did I calculate this correctly?

If this is accurate, simply shifting in your chair will meaningfully change the gain. Seems this would be distracting, but I haven't read mention of it.

I'm not sure about the calculation, but the gain doesn't seem right. I sit 12' back from a 110" screen. There is no perfectly centered chair, since the two main seats are to either side, roughly equidistant off center (with a small chair table in the middle between them). The gain in each chair is therefore roughly the same, but certainly not half of what it is at dead center. My Firehawk was about 1.3 gain from that same seat, and I couldn't use the small iris mode because the screen was too dim. The HP yields much greater brightness.

Also, the sides are not dramatically different than the middle of the screen. Someone earlier in this thread, or in another HP thread, did measurements and IIRC the edges were no more than 3% different in brightness than the middle. A screen shot earlier here shows that there is a slight lowering of brightness at the edges, but it's nowhere nearly as severe as my Firehawk was. That screen looked significantly dimmer on one side than the other, by a considerably larger percentage (although I never did formal measurements). According to the formal measurements I read, and my own eyes, the HP is quite uniform across its surface.

I do agree that moving your head by even a foot can create a significant drop in brightness. However, I positioned my seats (or rather re-positioned the projector) so that doesn't happen. As I've said before, the cone is real and if you have to be outside it in your seat, you'd better look elsewhere for your high gain screen. You're not going to be satisfied with the HP.

I'd recommend doing what I did. Send for a sample and figure out a way to position it in front of the screen so you can see the effect first hand. When I saw the sample light up like a torch when I moved my head close to the lens, I knew I had to find a way to make my room work with the HP.

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post #452 of 3787 Old 02-13-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

The viewing cone chart above pretty much says it all.

It is a smooth transition though as you move away from optimal. Unlike some rear projection units where all of a sudden it goes black.

What's the difference between the Contour and Cosmopolitan screens?
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post #453 of 3787 Old 02-13-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond34 View Post

What's the difference between the Contour and Cosmopolitan screens?

The Cinema Contour is a fixed frame screen where the Cosmo is an electrically operated roll up/down screen.
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post #454 of 3787 Old 02-13-2007, 10:14 AM
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Can you get get free samples from them to see if you like the High Power screen?
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post #455 of 3787 Old 02-13-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond34 View Post

Can you get get free samples from them to see if you like the High Power screen?

Sure. Just contact them through their web site and make a request. I got a book of samples from them.

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post #456 of 3787 Old 02-18-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh2 View Post

The high powers gain prevent it from being uniform in brightness from side to side but the brain is fooled because the shift is gradual. Compare directly the center of the screen to the edges and things become a little more telling.

Here's a shot of your screen with a center reference square copied and pasted to other locations of the screen.

While I'll agree that in theory the uniformity should not be the same from side to side I don't think the photo shown should be used to represent the effect. It would be better to take a photo from below the projector in a blacked out room while the projector is displaying a single level. To even get more geeky with it you would want a long exposure. You could even take two photo's (human eye distance apart )and merge them. You'd probably also want to try it with multiple cameras and take the shot of the screen in a way that it's not centered in the frame to rule out camera lens effects. Then after all of that do it again in the same space with a matt white screen and compare so you can see if there is a delta in uniformity.
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post #457 of 3787 Old 02-20-2007, 07:51 PM
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I'll be relatively brief tonight. (more tomorrow I'm sure)

Got the screen delivered late tonight. Got it installed all by myself.
First impression - Wow, this thing is HEAVY and the build quality is EXCELLENT. Had I not wanted a 119" screen, I'd think the model B would be perfect. As it is, I wanted 119, so I got a Model C.

Very difficult for one person to install just due to size/weight. But I managed. I need to fix my install later (raise up a bit, get my level out) but I'll do that when I have some help.

Fired up the projector.

My DVD player isn't the best indicator, or the movie I used wasn't the best, but it was still GREAT. Decent improvement over my graywolf.
Firing up my HD (American Idol) and my PC (typing on it now) showed a HUGE improvement.

With DVD, I almost preferred dynamic. (panasonic ax100). With my PC, I need sunglasses with cinema 2.

What I really love about it (especially compared to my graywolf II) is the fact that the screen does totally disappear. No texture. No waves. No 'screen interference' at all.

I also love the fact that this thing is available with a black case (which I got). Once I paint my back wall black (this weekend hopefully) everything should disappear into the background save the beautiful picture.

I've sat in pretty much every seat in my theater. Pic is great no matter where I sit.
Brightness is VERY uniform. Don't get me wrong. I'm not giving up my front row center seat, but my family and guests will still be happy with whatever seats they get.



I'm extremely grateful I found this thread. My theater is now almost complete with the exception of some final paint.

OK, I lied. I wasn't all that brief. Great screen. Definitely gave me that last bit of 'pop'!

-bq

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post #458 of 3787 Old 02-20-2007, 08:42 PM
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Congrats bq! Wow, a ax100 with a 119" HiPower--that must truly be bright. But it sounds like it's not too much. Can't wait to see one on my wall.
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post #459 of 3787 Old 02-21-2007, 07:05 AM
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I put in ICE AGE this morning for a few minutes. Looked great. Econo mode w/ Cinema 2. Definitely not too bright.

What got me though was how COLORFUL this movie was. Lots of snow/ice white scenes, but lots and lots of color too. Very vibrant.

This weekend I plan a real treat on the big screen. One of the most vivid, colorful movies ever made (at least that I can think of) is "What Dreams May Come" w/ Robin Williams, Cuba Gooding Jr. and Annabella Sciorra. I've seen this movie before but have been waiting to see it again on the big screen. This should be a true visual treat.

Back to first impressions though - the casing for the model C is huge. Overall more than twice as large as the graywolf II. I almost wish the casing wasn't so overwhelming, but again, I bought it in black and am painting my walls black, so it is/was only an issue during installation.

I watched Boston Legal in HD this morning, along with 30 minutes of L&O SVU (HD), plus a Blake's song from American Idol Tuesday night (HD).

With my graywolf II, I had major distractions with my 120" screen (texture, some lines on the screen from the plastic covering). Returned that and put my 106" graywolf II back up. The 106" had minor distractions with the texture. I could've lived with it, but glad I don't have too.

I wish I could say the High Power had zero distractions. I can say I don't see the texture, waves, lines, etc. But I'm finding myself somewhat distracted by how great the picture looks! That's a distraction I can live with.

This isn't night and day from the Graywolf II. but it IS a big improvement. My wife hasn't watched anything on it yet and she may not notice any difference (wives are funny that way).

Last comment - The graywolf ii is a gray screen as the name implies. I know blacks are supposed to be better on a gray screen. Logically it makes perfect sense. I haven't popped in my DVD Essentials disk yet, but based on the content I've watched already, in my room, black levels with this screen aren't an issue. I've read the higher gain helps to increase the contrast or perceived contrast. Whatever technical jargon, all I know is the thing looks damn good. This one's a keeper.

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post #460 of 3787 Old 02-21-2007, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bqmeister View Post


This isn't night and day from the Graywolf II. but it IS a big improvement. My wife hasn't watched anything on it yet and she may not notice any difference (wives are funny that way).

That's usually the case. Not sure why, but my brother is that way. Especially w/ sound. He didnt notice the difference between my logitech desktop speakers and my polk audio speakers... eh.

Congrats on the new screen. I have a model C 159" on the way, my ae1000u is dying for it . Can you send some screen shots of the black case? I am very interested in how this sucker is gonna turn out


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post #461 of 3787 Old 02-21-2007, 10:51 AM
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Not the best pics
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...GL:en%26sa%3DN

this one gives you somewhat of an impressions of the size - http://vgonpic4.tempdomainname.com/i/c/f/1139618224.jpg

also, look at the pdf on da-lite's website
http://da-lite.com/products/spec_pdfs/230.pdf
The back bracket is almost 6 inches and the case diameter is over 4 1/2 inches.

I really do need to take pics of my setup, and will try my bestest to do so tonight (may not post them until morning though).

Something cool about the black case (and maybe the white is like this - I don't know)
On the black case, the Da-Lite emblem is on a clear window-cling type sticker. Very easily removeable to give the case a complete black look all around. In a dark room with only the movie on, the case won't be a distraction - you won't see it at all.

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post #462 of 3787 Old 02-21-2007, 04:20 PM
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Well finally got the HP screen for my Pearl.... Great match up very, very, very pleased with outcome. Only thing I am pissed about is there are about 7 spots that it looks like the material has rubbed off, one corner looks like finger prints that won't come off. But the defects are clear, hopefully they will take care of this sooner than later. White gloves is all I have to say when putting together any fixed screen. Regardless I can live with a few defects for a short while that is, picuture is surely stunning! The ironic thing is the company that did the install is top notch and I left them some white gloves to use but clearly they didn't!
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post #463 of 3787 Old 02-22-2007, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Well finally got the HP screen for my Pearl.... Great match up very, very, very pleased with outcome. Only thing I am pissed about is there are about 7 spots that it looks like the material has rubbed off, one corner looks like finger prints that won't come off. But the defects are clear, hopefully they will take care of this sooner than later. White gloves is all I have to say when putting together any fixed screen. Regardless I can live with a few defects for a short while that is, picuture is surely stunning! The ironic thing is the company that did the install is top notch and I left them some white gloves to use but clearly they didn't!

Sorry to hear about the problems with the screen. I treated the sample I got a little rough to see how it would hold up. It's pretty tough, but if something gets nicked, it can go bad quickly.

I'd love to hear more about your impressions of the screen with the Pearl. A friend has taken my recommendation and is getting the screen, and he's buying a Pearl. (He may be reading this - hi, Mike.) Anyway, any impressions would be welcome.

I just finished watching Lost a while ago, and I had to pause during the show several times to marvel at how terrific the image was. Beautiful, deep contrast is something I'd kind of learned to live without when I moved from a CRT front projector (Dwin 700) to a Sharp 9000 DLP. With the Sharp 20000 and a High Power, that sense of awe has returned. That sense of images so rich you just go weak inside. OK, that's hyperbolic, but not by much.

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post #464 of 3787 Old 02-22-2007, 04:45 AM
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I am really excited to get my new screen in so reading all of the positive posts just confirms for me that I made the right choice. I have a sample stuck to my wall and I cannot keep my eyes off of that 1 little sample when the projector is on.
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post #465 of 3787 Old 02-22-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Well finally got the HP screen for my Pearl.... Great match up very, very, very pleased with outcome. Only thing I am pissed about is there are about 7 spots that it looks like the material has rubbed off, one corner looks like finger prints that won't come off. But the defects are clear, hopefully they will take care of this sooner than later. White gloves is all I have to say when putting together any fixed screen. Regardless I can live with a few defects for a short while that is, picuture is surely stunning! The ironic thing is the company that did the install is top notch and I left them some white gloves to use but clearly they didn't!

Sorry your having a problem. I was nervous I would mess up the coating when I was installing mine. Luckily I managed to get mine hung without any problems as I can imagine even a tiny blemish would stick out like a sore thumb considering the high gain nature of our screens.

Stick to your guns and make them "make it right".

Good luck,
Ken
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post #466 of 3787 Old 02-22-2007, 09:08 PM
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Joseph Clark: The match up is excellent to say the least. This screen is a perfect mate with any low lumen 1080p projector!! I just saw one of these hooked up to the new JVC with similar results, outsanding. The dealer where I bought mine also has a certified ISF tech, and he was in wowed by how good it looked. All I can say when handling this units "USE WHITE GLOVES" reason being any grease or smudge mark would be hard to get out. I though I had smudges, but it is where some of the material has rubbed off. One spot is abou 1/2 and noticable now, company I am working with is replacing it soon, I am one happy camper with this setup. The ISFT said I was getting about 30 foot lamperts out of the combo which I thought was damn good considering this was set on the low lamp setting!

KenWH: I don't think there will be a problem, I didn't install it, I have done installls along time ago, and I remember us where white gloves when we where installing screens in the past. The problem is there are 4 scuff marks in the middle of the screen, I didn't notice them before till I turned off the screen for the first time and bingo there they where and now I see them, go figure.
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post #467 of 3787 Old 02-24-2007, 10:06 AM
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Where do you guys got the samples from? I'am interested in this screen and want a simple to test it out before i buy..

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #468 of 3787 Old 02-24-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoohki View Post

Where do you guys got the samples from? I'am interested in this screen and want a simple to test it out before i buy..

Contact Da-Lite through their web site.

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post #469 of 3787 Old 02-24-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Contact Da-Lite through their web site.

OK thanks i'll do that.. wonder if they ship samples to canada.. thanks again!

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #470 of 3787 Old 02-25-2007, 06:00 AM
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You probably feel like the Indian's felt in 1492 when Columbus arrived and "discovered" America .


LMAO!!

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post #471 of 3787 Old 02-25-2007, 11:12 AM
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WOW, I was looking at getting the High Power 119" Deluxe Electrol screen and this thing is almost $3000. Who has the best deals on screens?
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post #472 of 3787 Old 02-25-2007, 11:46 AM
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Tryg, thank you for this great thread. If you remember after I ordered 12' wide CIH High Power Screen I got scared about setup issues which retro reflective screens. Thank god I didn't cancel my order and thank you for making me hold to my initial decision.

I finally got my theater ready yesterday and this screen is making my Panasonic AX100U look all the more better even with low lamp mode.

Projector lens is about 17" inches from ceiling and screen top is about 19" down from ceiling. I watched picture sitting on floor even from just 16' away and the picture still looked too good to me. Once my eyes are about 3-4' from floor the picture looks stunning even when I am doing the poor man's CIH setup my zooming.

BIG THANKS TO TRYG for this THREAD that made me own this incredible screen. BTW, my friend has the same projector and 100" screen which has no gain and his picture is so different from mine that he is now thinking his projector might be having a problem :-). I had to tell him about my screen.
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post #473 of 3787 Old 02-25-2007, 05:05 PM
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Da-Lite HP Da-Bomb!

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post #474 of 3787 Old 02-25-2007, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kits View Post

Tryg, thank you for this great thread. If you remember after I ordered 12' wide CIH High Power Screen I got scared about setup issues which retro reflective screens. Thank god I didn't cancel my order and thank you for making me hold to my initial decision.


Glad you like it! I know there are a lot of different perspectives around here that can get people into a panic. Many not based from experience.

Sometimes I dont know what to believe

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post #475 of 3787 Old 02-25-2007, 06:13 PM
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I wanted to thank you, too, Tryg. This is the kind of thread that should exist for any technology we talk about here. It's just full of really valuable information - and it has pictures!

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post #476 of 3787 Old 02-26-2007, 07:31 AM
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I have the HP Model B pulldown. I will be lowering the projector shortly to pick up some gain. My projector is the Sanyo Z5. I sit a little over one sofa cushion off center and notice a slight drop in gain. If I mount the projector over my head and lens shift will that do anything? Will moving the screen to the right and lens shifting from the current position move the sweet spot? In other words when using a projector with good lens shift are there any other flexibilities that may be had?

Thanks
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post #477 of 3787 Old 02-27-2007, 08:43 AM
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I was doing a little more research around here on Silverstar and Hi-Power just to pass the time a little. And was confused by this. Possibly Tryg can answer this for me. Your picture all the way at the beginning of this thread clearly shows that the Hi-Power is, well, more powerful than Silverstar. And, as shown by the picture, quite a bit more powerful than Silverstar. However, Vutec rates Silverstar as 6.0 gain as compared to Da-lite's 2.8 gain for High power. Is Vutec simply lying? Shouldn't Vutec be twice as bright as the Da-Lite High Power? How can they get away with advertising a screen at 6.0 gain that is clearly beaten by a screen with 2.8 gain?

Here's Vutec's page on Silverstar see for yourself if you haven't noticed.

http://www.vutec.com/silverstar.htm

With a Hi-Power screen costing around $300 for 106" that has a rated gain half of the Silverstar which costs $1500 for 110" to then see in comparison that Da-Lite outperforms (in terms of gain) the Silverstar is, well, shocking. Silverstar's numbers seem to be a flat out lie. They're so overinflated it's not possible to excuse it as just fudging it a little bit. It's rated 6.0 gain and it can't even come close to something rated at 2.8 gain. Can anyone make sense of this for me? I'm not looking to buy either of these as I already have a screen I'm happy with, but I'm always looking for what might be next. This difference really bothers me about Silverstar.
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post #478 of 3787 Old 02-27-2007, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Troutman View Post

I was doing a little more research around here on Silverstar and Hi-Power just to pass the time a little. And was confused by this. Possibly Tryg can answer this for me. Your picture all the way at the beginning of this thread clearly shows that the Hi-Power is, well, more powerful than Silverstar. And, as shown by the picture, quite a bit more powerful than Silverstar. However, Vutec rates Silverstar as 6.0 gain as compared to Da-lite's 2.8 gain for High power. Is Vutec simply lying? Shouldn't Vutec be twice as bright as the Da-Lite High Power? How can they get away with advertising a screen at 6.0 gain that is clearly beaten by a screen with 2.8 gain?

Here's Vutec's page on Silverstar see for yourself if you haven't noticed.

http://www.vutec.com/silverstar.htm

With a Hi-Power screen costing around $300 for 106" that has a rated gain half of the Silverstar which costs $1500 for 110" to then see in comparison that Da-Lite outperforms (in terms of gain) the Silverstar is, well, shocking. Silverstar's numbers seem to be a flat out lie. They're so overinflated it's not possible to excuse it as just fudging it a little bit. It's rated 6.0 gain and it can't even come close to something rated at 2.8 gain. Can anyone make sense of this for me? I'm not looking to buy either of these as I already have a screen I'm happy with, but I'm always looking for what might be next. This difference really bothers me about Silverstar.

See Tryg's "White, Gray, and Silver" Thread as he discusses the facts in this case. the Gain of the Silverstar is actually around 3 + and the Hi Power is well north of that number when you are perfectly in the cone. However, if you are not in the cat bird seat with the HI Power, you will lose considerable gain. I was thinking hard about the Hi Power given the gain and price, but the uniformity of gain with Silverstar was the thing that drove my Purchase. I labored over thread after thread and spoke to many who own both. In the end, Siverstar won out. I have now had it for approximately 2 weeks and consider it the best vehicle of improvement for my system yet...worth every bit of 2 grand I spent to get a 123 inch. You say that "this difference really bothers me", I am confident if you owned one you would get over it real quick. Good luck to you. Alex
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post #479 of 3787 Old 02-27-2007, 10:49 AM
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If I needed a wide viewing area or entertained people a lot who would have to sit outside the HP's sweet spot, I doubt I would have wanted it. However, since probably well over 95% of our viewing is just a couple of people (dead in the center of the sweet spot), the HP was perfect. On those occasions when I need extra light output for the peripheral seating, I can either open the iris and/or bump up the lamp from low to high on my Sharp 20000. I liked the surface of the HP better than the SS sample I got, but I'm sure I would have adjusted to the SS well, moving from a Firehawk.

One of the other advantages of the HP is the price. It's a lot cheaper than the SS, because the SS comes mounted on a hard, thick panel that has to be a lot more expensive to manufacture and ship.

I was awfully tempted by the SS, though, because it wouldn't have required me to change much of anything else in my home theater except the screen. The HP required me to mount the projector significantly lower than I had to before, to get it near eye level with the lens.

Everyone has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of a particular screen for their situation. Although both the SS and the HP are high gain screens, they take different approaches and require different projector and seating arrangements.

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post #480 of 3787 Old 02-27-2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex9966 View Post

See Tryg's "White, Gray, and Silver" Thread as he discusses the facts in this case.

Thanks for your thoughts. I have read through that thread in the past. What I was saying is that it's obvious that it's not 6.0 Gain. My question is why advertise it as 6.0 gain when it is so clearly not an even close statement of what is actually true? The Silverstar seems to give great results and got excellent marks from Tryg and does provide at least a fair amount of gain boost. There seems to be no need to overstate it's gain raiting by Vutec.

I had a negative gain .8 gray screen but I wanted to upgrade. Silverstar (unfortunately for me) was way out of my budget range. I bought the new Hd1000 from Mitsubishi for $850. It's 720HD, DLP darkchip 2 and does a great job. I could hardly spend SS prices for a projector this inexpensive. I must admitt I envy those of you that can bring something like SS or DNP Supernova into your theater. Makes me feel like I'm on a shoestring budget.

HP was a very strong contender, but ultimately the viewing cone made me decide against it (I didn't actual look at the screen, but I decided based on what others have said and the viewing cone that Tryg had measured. Much to narrow for my wider living room style theater.) Like everything in life, every screen has it's trade offs.
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