HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3787 Old 03-19-2007, 09:39 AM
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Actually, a flashlight is very telling. I used a sample of the HP, superimposed on a sample of Vutec Silverstar. I shined a flashlight on both and moved them around. Make sure you orient the screen materials the correct way. On the SS, for example, you have to make sure you have up and down oriented properly. For the HP, its doesn't matter. Anyway, you'll be able to tell relative brightness this way. As you move the flashlight close to your eyes, the HP will achieve its greatest brightness. The SS will be brightest as the flashlight is raised above eye level, shining down on the material. Moving the materials together, I could see the HP and the SS change their relative brightness. It's also a good way to check for uniformity, having the two materials superimposed. That's how I was able to detect the SS sheen, whereas the HP maintained its uniformity across its entire surface.

From your sketches, I'd say the people in the outer seats are going to lose a great deal of brightness. If you can modify the seating to get them into a narrower viewing cone, you have a better chance of everyone seeing a bright image. A lot of this depends on your projector, too. If you have a bright projector, they might still be OK, but if your projector is dim (as most of the new 1080p projectors are), the brightness might not be acceptable for those outer seats.

Consider this, though - how often will you have guests who will sit there? Can you, for those occasions, crank the projector into a brighter mode (or open its iris), but use the projector at its optimal settings for most viewing, with the inner seats being used? If you can manage that, the benefits of the HP will outweigh the disadvantages. On those occasions when you'll have ambient lights on, you're not going to be getting the best image anyway. Why not enjoy the extra brightness for those vast majority of occasions when it'll just be you and a couple/three additional people?

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post #542 of 3787 Old 03-19-2007, 09:47 AM
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Jonathan: My description of viewing angles above is really specific to the HiPower screen* (a retro-reflective screen, reflexing the light predominantly back to the pj). And so the OPTIMUM location for the pj is actually not far back in the room, but rather just above and behind the viewers' heads, i.e., with the eyes as close to the pj lens as is practical. But far back in the room is better than close if the pj is much higher than eye level.

* E.g., think of a viewer sitting at the edge of the screen: the angle from the lens, to the edge of the screen, and to the eye is the SAME as the angle from the lens, to the center of the screen, and then to the eye. And the angle from the other side of the screen is not much different. So even though this viewer will see a less bright pic than a viewer in the center of the screen, it will be quite uniform.
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post #543 of 3787 Old 03-19-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathanengr View Post

Okay... in the materials I just received from Da-Lite, they call the viewing angle the angle from the *center of the screen* to the left or right-most seat. They don't even mention the projector location. This is getting almost comical. Based on this criteria, however, my most extreme seat will be 33 degrees give-or-take. The question is, what is the correct, absolute way to determine this number? From projector-screen-person, and is the angle the full angle (as in the 29 degrees above), or the angle from the normal (14.5 degrees), or do you simply measure it from the center of the screen to the seat and determine that angle? I guess owning a projector could make this easier for me, but can you really tell from an 8.5x11 sheet? Can I mount a flashlight pointed at these things and walk around to get some idea?

Probably not going to be much help here but here it goes.

Joe's first paragraph above pretty much says it all but yes your first drawing is correct...33 degrees would be your "worst case" seats...but a few others things can help or hurt those seats. Start by getting the pj as close to the viewers eye level vertically as possible. Also mounting the pj back as far as reasonably possible will also help...I'll try to explain that below(try being the key word)

The key to the whole thing with the High Power is it's retro reflective nature. This means the screen is trying to reflect all the light right back to the source. Say you have a 3" lens on your pj, the screen is trying to shoot all the light right back to that small spot. Mounting the pj further back keeps the viewing cone coming from the screen wider longer as the exteme edges of the screen/image are at a much less severe angle in relation to the projector compared to as they would be with the projector mounted close to the screen. Thereby lessening the amount of gain loss to the outer mosts seats.

I don't believe a flashlight will help much as the light is not focused enough but could be wrong and it never hurts to try.

Good luck,
Ken
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post #544 of 3787 Old 03-19-2007, 02:02 PM
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Okay--you're killing me. I ordered the Video Spectra for more flexibility, but now you have me thinking high power again :-) I'm really, really afraid of some dead spots with the high power, but how bad will they be? At 33 degrees, that seems on the fringe of what's allowable, and if you look at Tryg's chart, at 33 degrees there's no light left hardly at all.

Regarding vertical positioning, I can mount the projector right at my forehead :-) I'm concerned about the horizontal positioning. If you will, look at my proposed seating chart and see what you think. Chances are I'll likely have the seating closer together--especially for a movie--but those are good angles to use for now. Better question--why should I choose the VS over the HP, or the HP over the VS? I've been told the VS will have a VASTLY wider viewing area even though Da-Lite says the difference is 5 degrees. Anyone tinkered with both of these screens?
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post #545 of 3787 Old 03-22-2007, 09:16 PM
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pc

Love my HP 159" model c.

If your thinking about High Power and wondering how bad the viewing cone is, get one, you will be very surprised.

at 35 degrees It is very hard to notice due to perception. Yes it gets a littttttlllllleeeee darker, but better than most screens at minimil angle.
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post #546 of 3787 Old 03-22-2007, 09:55 PM
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159" HP. Color me green.

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post #547 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 05:07 AM
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Tryg: Could you please comment on the Joe Kane article regarding screens, in the latest issue of W.S.R.
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post #548 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 06:37 AM
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Curious general observation from reading what others on the forum report and with my own screen:

With the HP...BIGGER IS BETTER...it seems that the guys running the larger hp's usually have a better overall experience with the screen.

Basically the larger the screen the more spread out your seats can be before serious gain loss so I guess it makes sense that larger (120"+) hp screens would have higher user satisfaction rates compared to smaller ones.

Maybe with the flourishing 1080p pj market we can start bumping up screen sizes a bit. I say this as the fill rates and tiny pixel sizes with the new 1080p's should allow us to sit closer to larger screens without to much trouble.
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post #549 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWH View Post


Maybe with the flourishing 1080p pj market we can start bumping up screen sizes a bit. I say this as the fill rates and tiny pixel sizes with the new 1080p's should allow us to sit closer to larger screens without to much trouble.

But as you sit closer, the closer seats on the edges would be further outside the cone.

I was also about to say, you'd need a bright projector to go much bigger than 120, but then I remembered this is a high power screen thread, and with that screen, you can go bigger with pretty much any projector.

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post #550 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 07:17 AM
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I have the really big model C HP (nearly 12 feet across) and I have never had any comments other than the "holy s*&^" variety. The screen is amazing and sooooo much better than the basic white model C that it replaced. The samples are just not a good representation of the screen. Getting the HP was the best decision I made last year and my only regret is that I didn't get it sooner.


Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathanengr View Post

Okay--you're killing me. I ordered the Video Spectra for more flexibility, but now you have me thinking high power again :-) I'm really, really afraid of some dead spots with the high power, but how bad will they be? At 33 degrees, that seems on the fringe of what's allowable, and if you look at Tryg's chart, at 33 degrees there's no light left hardly at all.

Regarding vertical positioning, I can mount the projector right at my forehead :-) I'm concerned about the horizontal positioning. If you will, look at my proposed seating chart and see what you think. Chances are I'll likely have the seating closer together--especially for a movie--but those are good angles to use for now. Better question--why should I choose the VS over the HP, or the HP over the VS? I've been told the VS will have a VASTLY wider viewing area even though Da-Lite says the difference is 5 degrees. Anyone tinkered with both of these screens?

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post #551 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 07:27 AM
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My mistake. I have the model C without CSR. I did spend the extra 15 dollars for the black case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by couchpotato1072 View Post

I thought that the model b pulldown only went up to 106 inches? Is it possible to get a model b in a size like 110?

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post #552 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcrowe View Post

I have the really big model C HP (nearly 12 feet across) and I have never had any comments other than the "holy s*&^" variety. The screen is amazing and sooooo much better than the basic white model C that it replaced. The samples are just not a good representation of the screen. Getting the HP was the best decision I made last year and my only regret is that I didn't get it sooner.


Dave

I just bolted my Model C w/ the Floating brackets on the wall. Does the middle of yours hange down more than the sides? I'm thinking about putting a custome bracket in the middle to support the wieght for the middle.
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post #553 of 3787 Old 03-23-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathanengr View Post

Okay--you're killing me. I ordered the Video Spectra for more flexibility, but now you have me thinking high power again :-) I'm really, really afraid of some dead spots with the high power, but how bad will they be? At 33 degrees, that seems on the fringe of what's allowable, and if you look at Tryg's chart, at 33 degrees there's no light left hardly at all.

Regarding vertical positioning, I can mount the projector right at my forehead :-) I'm concerned about the horizontal positioning. If you will, look at my proposed seating chart and see what you think. Chances are I'll likely have the seating closer together--especially for a movie--but those are good angles to use for now. Better question--why should I choose the VS over the HP, or the HP over the VS? I've been told the VS will have a VASTLY wider viewing area even though Da-Lite says the difference is 5 degrees. Anyone tinkered with both of these screens?

I can't answer your last question but I can tell you about my experience with the HP....which may help with your first question. I too was worried about the viewing angle. But once I got the screen hooked up, I found that the gain variance from left to right is tolerable. The 33 degrees you speak of for instance, is from the center point....which really means you have a 66 degree angle to work with before things start breaking down. In real terms, if you have a chair at zero degrees [right in line with the center point of the screen] you can easily have one chair to the right and another to the left with a small table in between each before the gain starts to decrease to a noticeable level. Just my impression of course.
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post #554 of 3787 Old 03-31-2007, 05:15 AM
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I have not noticed any sagging, and again my experience with the large screen is that you can sit anywhere and have a fantastic experience. Last night my kids all had friends over and we ended up with kids and parents sitting as close as 4 feet from the screen watching everyone's hero. No comments other than the "mom can we get one at our house" variety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockokma View Post

I just bolted my Model C w/ the Floating brackets on the wall. Does the middle of yours hange down more than the sides? I'm thinking about putting a custome bracket in the middle to support the wieght for the middle.

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post #555 of 3787 Old 04-07-2007, 03:29 PM
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Initial High Power comments.

Mounted Basic Model B 106" in white case, with 24" extras drop.

It hides waves very well - I think this is an outstanding feature, as I don't have the scratch for a tab-tensioned screen.

We table mount and have the main two seats at lens level only 18" or so from the lens. I think the screen within the cone is great, and outside the cone (the other two seats) also great. The only change is it is a bit dimmer outside the cone, but certainly not dimmer than my Behr Silver Screen wall was.

Haven't done any critical viewing (daylight in room, projector recalibrated for the screen, etc)

It also reject ambient light pretty good.
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post #556 of 3787 Old 04-08-2007, 05:27 PM
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Thanks
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post #557 of 3787 Old 04-14-2007, 04:29 PM
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tagged for later...
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post #558 of 3787 Old 04-15-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

Tryg,

I'm not trying to give you a hard time but you did not answer my question. What caused your switch in opinion on the Hi Power versus when you reviewed it the first time and chose the Silverstar. What changed? Because there is nothing new about the Hi Power - it's always been retro-reflective and I assume you knew all about that in your first review and your room has not changed either.

If someone reviews the Pearl and the Qualia, even doing a shootout between them and states that they clearly prefer the Qualia and then a year later writes a review that is the opposite and says (I've replaced the word screen with PJ)"...

...I would want to know why the change in opinion.

Again, I'm genuinely asking, not giving you a hard time.


I think a lot of further research from Darin P may have incfluenced Tryg.
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post #559 of 3787 Old 04-18-2007, 03:32 PM
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Well I finally read through this whole thread. Thank you for all of the information and comments about the HP screen. I decided to buy one and happened to stumble across a Da-lite dealer that easily had the lowest price. They even beat B&H but without the inflated shipping that B&H charges This allowed me to basically get the next larger size for close to the same price as the one that I was going to get from one of the sponsors here.

I am excited to see what everyone has been raving about. Mine should be here by the end of next week. My TX100 is almost a foot above my head and the outside seat is at the edge of my 65x116 screen. I know that the screen is a tad too big for my seating distance (about 12') but I went with that size because my future projector will be able to take advantage of that size.

I thought that I was going to have a problem mounting this model C monster seeing as the mounting holes will not line up with the studs in the wall. However, after doing a little research I found out that I'm going to have to mount it right up snug to the ceiling in order to get the bottom of the viewing area where I need it, 23" above the floor. Fortunately it is being mounted on an outside wall which means that the wall has a double top plate. That means that I have 2.5" of wood to secure the screen to the wall.

Is there any problem with leaving the screen down all the time?
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post #560 of 3787 Old 04-19-2007, 03:20 PM
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Time for me to order my fixed screen with 58X104 viewing area. What I can't decide on is Da-Snap or Cinema Contour. Are there any substantial differences other than the width of the frame?

Phil
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post #561 of 3787 Old 04-19-2007, 04:37 PM
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They are very similar other than width of border (1.5" vs 3.0 ). The DaSnap frame comes out further in front of the surface; therefore if the pj is above the top of the frame, or below it, there is a possibility of the frame shadowing the screen material. This can't happen with the CC.

I have the DaSnap simply because it thought the 3" border would be too 'looming'. The wider CC, though, will make it easier to have the frame absorb some of the light that leaks over to it. The choice is mainly a personal pref.
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post #562 of 3787 Old 04-19-2007, 05:55 PM
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Thanks, do you think one will be easier to put together than the other, or are they both a pain in the ass.

Phil
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post #563 of 3787 Old 04-20-2007, 01:45 PM
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I imagine they will be about the same re assembly, and it's really not bad. One thing I did do differently from the instructions was, after screwing the frame together, I did NOT spread the screen material out on the floor (rug) and lay the frame over it, etc. Rather, I had my wife hold the frame upright, and then I unfurled the material vertically. I snapped the screen first at the top 2 corners, then the 2 bottom corners, and then filled in at the other places. Very easy, but you do need a second person to hold the frame for you.
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post #564 of 3787 Old 04-20-2007, 02:45 PM
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"Ahhhhhhhhh..... so this is why people mount a projector as far back in the room as possible even though it causes a loss in lumens because the projector has to throw the light further, correct? "

There is no loss of lumens unless your air is dirty

The dimming with distance you're thinking of is because the image expands and brightness (light/area) decreases, but with a pj you adjust the zoom to keep the image the same size/brightness.

Noah
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post #565 of 3787 Old 04-20-2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I imagine they will be about the same re assembly, and it's really not bad. One thing I did do differently from the instructions was, after screwing the frame together, I did NOT spread the screen material out on the floor (rug) and lay the frame over it, etc. Rather, I had my wife hold the frame upright, and then I unfurled the material vertically. I snapped the screen first at the top 2 corners, then the 2 bottom corners, and then filled in at the other places. Very easy, but you do need a second person to hold the frame for you.

Thanks, I ordered the Cinema Contour.

Phil
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post #566 of 3787 Old 04-20-2007, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Thanks, I ordered the Cinema Contour.

I've no doubt you'll be delighted! Good luck, Bill
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post #567 of 3787 Old 04-21-2007, 04:58 AM
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I leave mine down all the time (it is the 139 inch model) with no problems. My first row of seating for the kids is only 8 feet back from the screen and they seem to love the mini imax effect. Actually it is fun to sit so close once in a while. I just have the AE900 and the picture looks great to us.

enjoy!

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_63 View Post

Well I finally read through this whole thread. Thank you for all of the information and comments about the HP screen. I decided to buy one and happened to stumble across a Da-lite dealer that easily had the lowest price. They even beat B&H but without the inflated shipping that B&H charges This allowed me to basically get the next larger size for close to the same price as the one that I was going to get from one of the sponsors here.

I am excited to see what everyone has been raving about. Mine should be here by the end of next week. My TX100 is almost a foot above my head and the outside seat is at the edge of my 65x116 screen. I know that the screen is a tad too big for my seating distance (about 12') but I went with that size because my future projector will be able to take advantage of that size.

I thought that I was going to have a problem mounting this model C monster seeing as the mounting holes will not line up with the studs in the wall. However, after doing a little research I found out that I'm going to have to mount it right up snug to the ceiling in order to get the bottom of the viewing area where I need it, 23" above the floor. Fortunately it is being mounted on an outside wall which means that the wall has a double top plate. That means that I have 2.5" of wood to secure the screen to the wall.

Is there any problem with leaving the screen down all the time?

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post #568 of 3787 Old 04-21-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I imagine they will be about the same re assembly, and it's really not bad. One thing I did do differently from the instructions was, after screwing the frame together, I did NOT spread the screen material out on the floor (rug) and lay the frame over it, etc. Rather, I had my wife hold the frame upright, and then I unfurled the material vertically. I snapped the screen first at the top 2 corners, then the 2 bottom corners, and then filled in at the other places. Very easy, but you do need a second person to hold the frame for you.

This sounds like a really good approach. Following the directions exactly as I first tried to do, with the screen on the floor, is a recipe for lost weight. I must have dropped 5 pounds in sweat before I raised the frame from the floor and leaned it against the wall to complete the snaps. If someone's by himself, he might start as Da-Lite directs, then lean the screen against the wall after the first corners are in place. But having a helper is the way to go.

Joe Clark

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post #569 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 09:38 AM
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I know the gain is related to the angle between the projector and the viewer's position. Does the positioning of the screen affect anything? Does positioning the screen high towards the ceiling or low towards the ground make a difference - assuming that the projector and viewing position are the same.
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post #570 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

I know the gain is related to the angle between the projector and the viewer's position. Does the positioning of the screen affect anything? Does positioning the screen high towards the ceiling or low towards the ground make a difference - assuming that the projector and viewing position are the same.

I think it's better not to have the top of the screen any closer to the ceiling than necessary, to minimize reflected light from it.

In my room, my wife has added some dark drapes at the back of the room, to minimize reflected light from behind the pj. After that, I believe that the ceiling is the greatest 'offender' re reflected light. I'm experimenting with adding a dark cloth, pinned to the ceiling and side picture molding, about 4 ft out from the front wall, to see how much difference this makes (and how it looks re WAF). The effect of this has been discussed extensively in other threads.
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