HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I think it's better not to have the top of the screen any closer to the ceiling than necessary, to minimize reflected light from it.

I was thinking more about whether the gain is affected at all. While playing around with the HP screen samples, I noticed a big increase in gain by moving my head up about a foot. I am guessing this is the same effect as dropping the projector a foot. My question is if there is any benefit moving the screen - for gain purposes.
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post #572 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 12:13 PM
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[quote=millerwill]I think it's better not to have the top of the screen any closer to the ceiling than necessary, to minimize reflected light from it.
QUOTE]

I totally agree with this. I painted my drop ceiling tiles a flat very very dark blue and the grids/frame is flat black. The top edge of my screen is about 4" down from the ceiling and i get a good bit of reflections even with the flat dark ceiling colors.

Cal,

Imo only moving the screen up would not help the gain you see when seated as your increasing the viewing angle vertically in relation to your eyes. In essence you would just be moving the viewing cone away from you.

The ideal situation for max gain is to have your eyes as close to the center of the lens on the pj as possible. The screen could be way above,below,left or right of the lens but as long as the image hits the screen it will then try to reflect all the light back to the original point source which is the pj's lens. As long as your eyes are in that cone of light coming back to the pj you should see positive gain. Again though the amount of gain varies as you get farther away from the lens.
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post #573 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 12:48 PM
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Cal, Re-enforcing Ken's remarks: if your eyes are reasonably close to the pj, then moving the screen up or down should have minimal effect gain-wise.
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post #574 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 02:29 PM
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Thanks guys. That's what I thought.
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post #575 of 3787 Old 04-23-2007, 09:39 PM
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I'm looking to do a high power with the contour electrosol. I noticed Tryg stated that there is no need for a tensioned screen. After living with your screens does anyone disagree with this? How does one limit waves in a electric/pull down screen from open windows or fans?

Thanks,
Andy
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post #576 of 3787 Old 04-24-2007, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN View Post

I'm looking to do a high power with the contour electrosol. I noticed Tryg stated that there is no need for a tensioned screen. After living with your screens does anyone disagree with this? How does one limit waves in a electric/pull down screen from open windows or fans?

Thanks,
Andy

Andy:

I just installed my electric Contour Electrosol this weekend. I was concerend about the flatness of the screen as you are.

However, I hate the look of the tensioned screens.

My screen is perfect. I cannot notice any ripples or contours in the screen. The weight of the screen seems to be sufficient to make the screen hang tight.

Splotto
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post #577 of 3787 Old 04-24-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Cal, Re-enforcing Ken's remarks: if your eyes are reasonably close to the pj, then moving the screen up or down should have minimal effect gain-wise.

I agree....as long as it's not too much.
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post #578 of 3787 Old 04-24-2007, 04:06 PM
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I'm about 13 feet back from the screen and I notice a slight verticle difference bewteen standing up and sitting down. Not enough to worry about though. Strange thing is, it seems to be more prominent with increased ambient light.
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post #579 of 3787 Old 04-24-2007, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

I'm about 13 feet back from the screen and I notice a slight verticle difference bewteen standing up and sitting down. Not enough to worry about though. Strange thing is, it seems to be more prominent with increased ambient light.

How high (or low) is the pj above (or below) your eye level?
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post #580 of 3787 Old 04-24-2007, 07:03 PM
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Sounds ideal!
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post #581 of 3787 Old 04-24-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splotto View Post

Andy:

I just installed my electric Contour Electrosol this weekend. I was concerend about the flatness of the screen as you are.

However, I hate the look of the tensioned screens.

My screen is perfect. I cannot notice any ripples or contours in the screen. The weight of the screen seems to be sufficient to make the screen hang tight.

Splotto

Thanks Splotto.
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post #582 of 3787 Old 04-25-2007, 09:32 AM
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what about CSR???????? Does anyone know if its worth the extra jack to have the controlled screen return ? I imagine I will put my screen up and down an few times a week and I was wondering what the benefit of csr is supposed to be..........if it just makes the return more quiet then I think its a waste of money......I don't want to spend an extra 30 percent for my screen just so it can be quiet when I pull it down.
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post #583 of 3787 Old 04-25-2007, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericc1 View Post

what about CSR???????? Does anyone know if its worth the extra jack to have the controlled screen return ? I imagine I will put my screen up and down an few times a week and I was wondering what the benefit of csr is supposed to be..........if it just makes the return more quiet then I think its a waste of money......I don't want to spend an extra 30 percent for my screen just so it can be quiet when I pull it down.


the big thing csr does is slow the rate of return of the screen. If you are careful about letting it up, you should never need it. (minus an accidental slip-up of course)
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post #584 of 3787 Old 04-25-2007, 03:14 PM
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Tryg-- Great review and series of posts!!!

I noticed that your projector is 8' from the ground, and presumably the HP screen is NOT. Therefore your lens is not centered on the screen, or close to eye level as Da Lite recommends for optimal gain with the HP....

Hopefully I am getting all that right, because I have a simliar-- if a slightly smaller scaled-- version of your set up. My Pearl is about 7' off ground, and level with the top of my 92" Da Lite screen (currently Hi Contrast Cin Vision). I'm not entirely satisfied with the brightness (I'm at the far end of the throw range at 15'), and was hoping I might get a little extra juice out of the HP screen.

Any thoughts?

The nice guy at Da Lite wasn't sure, due to the placement of my projector about 4' above eye level... He is sending me a sample, but at 6"x6" the sample might be hard to really answer the Q...

Any thoughts from ANYONE would be GREATLY appreciated. Anyone have their HP paired with a ceiling mounted projector?? Is it worth it if the "sweetspot" is when I'm standing??? Think I would have a gain worthy of the extra cost??

Thanks

John
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post #585 of 3787 Old 04-25-2007, 03:22 PM
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Doesn't sound like a good fit to me. I had a similar arrangement and had to drop the projector down over two feet to get good gain. With your eyes four feet down from the lens, you may not see much gain. If at all possible, try to figure a way to get the projector down at least a couple of feet. It that just isn't possible, you may want to look elsewhere. I had to rethink my much-loved high shelf mount, but once I saw the HP screen sample, I worked hard to figure a way to make it work.

Joe Clark

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post #586 of 3787 Old 04-25-2007, 04:41 PM
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Top of my screen (where the white screen ends/black border begins) is roughly 6 feet high (maybe 6 1/2 feet). bottom of projector is 6 feet from the ground.
Projector mounted back around 15 or 16 feet. Seating is around 19 feet back.

almost unnoticable diff when seated or standing. Pic is unbelievable great no matter what.

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post #587 of 3787 Old 04-25-2007, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorloff View Post

Tryg-- Great review and series of posts!!!

I noticed that your projector is 8' from the ground, and presumably the HP screen is NOT. Therefore your lens is not centered on the screen, or close to eye level as Da Lite recommends for optimal gain with the HP....

Hopefully I am getting all that right, because I have a simliar-- if a slightly smaller scaled-- version of your set up.

John,

You are absolutely correct! My setup is not optimal. It's hard to be optimal and many are not yet enjoy the benefits of the High Power. I probably get 2 gain from the screen but get amazing benefits in other areas like uniformity etc. I love this screen.

The guys at Da-Lite kid me. They love what I write but I'll be honest it's an amazing product. no one else makes such a screen!
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post #588 of 3787 Old 04-26-2007, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorloff View Post

Tryg-- Great review and series of posts!!!

I noticed that your projector is 8' from the ground, and presumably the HP screen is NOT. Therefore your lens is not centered on the screen, or close to eye level as Da Lite recommends for optimal gain with the HP....

Hopefully I am getting all that right, because I have a simliar-- if a slightly smaller scaled-- version of your set up. My Pearl is about 7' off ground, and level with the top of my 92" Da Lite screen (currently Hi Contrast Cin Vision). I'm not entirely satisfied with the brightness (I'm at the far end of the throw range at 15'), and was hoping I might get a little extra juice out of the HP screen.

Any thoughts?

The nice guy at Da Lite wasn't sure, due to the placement of my projector about 4' above eye level... He is sending me a sample, but at 6"x6" the sample might be hard to really answer the Q...

Any thoughts from ANYONE would be GREATLY appreciated. Anyone have their HP paired with a ceiling mounted projector?? Is it worth it if the "sweetspot" is when I'm standing??? Think I would have a gain worthy of the extra cost??

Thanks

John

Hi John,

If your pj is 4' above eyelevel then the angle of incidence is easy to determine
from how far back you sit. (Angle=arctan(4/d)).

Here are some examples:

d=10 Angle=21.8 Approximate gain=.87

d=11 Angle=20 Approximate gain=.9

d=12 Angle=18.4 Approximate gain=1.15

d=13 Angle=17.1 Approximate gain=1.25

d=14 Angle=15.9 Approximate gain=1.35

d=15 Angle=14.9 Approximate gain=1.45

d=16 Angle=14.0 Approximate gain=1.55



For comparison here are the same estimates if you drop the
pj to 2.5' above your eyeball.
d=10 Angle=14 Approximate gain=1.55

d=11 Angle=12.8 Approximate gain=1.7

d=12 Angle=11.7 Approximate gain=1.82

d=13 Angle=10.8 Approximate gain=1.95

d=14 Angle=10.1 Approximate gain=2.1

d=15 Angle=9.46 Approximate gain=2.2

d=16 Angle=8.8 Approximate gain=2.27


In the situation the bqmeister describes above the angle off axis is about 5 degrees. This gives a gain of 2.6 which is very close to the max of 2.8.

Note: These calculations are based on DaLite's chart for Gain vs Degrees off axis.
They are also assuming that the only offset is vertical. Add in a horizontal offset
and the gain drops further.

Brian
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post #589 of 3787 Old 04-26-2007, 06:02 AM
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Even with both horizontal and vertical offset
there is actually a fairly simple formula to calculate the off-axis angle. It is


angle = arccos( d / (d^2 +v^2+h^2)^(1/2) )

where d is the distance from the screen, v is the distance off axis in the vertical
and h is the distance off axis in the horizontal.



If there is interest, I could try to put together a spread sheet
that would show estimated gains with respect to various
vertical and horizontal offsets as a function of
seating distance.

Brian
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post #590 of 3787 Old 04-28-2007, 07:26 AM
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If I understand all of this correctly, I am going to install a HP screen on a 7'6" ceiling and install a pj on the opposite wall. If the center of the screen is about 33" down from the ceiling, then the pj should be mounted on the opposite wall at 33" down from the ceiling. Is that correct?
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post #591 of 3787 Old 04-28-2007, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickVette View Post

If I understand all of this correctly, I am going to install a HP screen on a 7'6" ceiling and install a pj on the opposite wall. If the center of the screen is about 33" down from the ceiling, then the pj should be mounted on the opposite wall at 33" down from the ceiling. Is that correct?

Yep. Have fun!
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post #592 of 3787 Old 04-29-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickVette View Post

If I understand all of this correctly, I am going to install a HP screen on a 7'6" ceiling and install a pj on the opposite wall. If the center of the screen is about 33" down from the ceiling, then the pj should be mounted on the opposite wall at 33" down from the ceiling. Is that correct?

It depends on the projector. Most projectors have an offset. Mine when sitting on a table throws the image upwards onto the screen. For best picture it actually sits about 6 inches above the bottom of the screen. For ceiling mounting it hangs about 6 inches below the TOP of the screen. Some projectors are higher, some lower. Most projectors don't line up with the center of the screen. If you are looking at a certain projector try and find the manual online to see what the offset will be, might help you make a decision based on the layout of your room.

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post #593 of 3787 Old 04-29-2007, 01:48 PM
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I'm looking at a Sanyo Z5. Thanks for the responses.
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post #594 of 3787 Old 05-01-2007, 04:09 PM
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Hi All,
Great post Tryg!
I finally read throug the whole thread and have ordered some samples for the high power, and they should be in the mail now
I am interested in a screen that can handle some ambien light and retro-reflective screen like the high-power sounds perfect for my set up. I have an LG-AN110 about 12" about my viewing position.
I would also like to know if any of you compared this screen to the DNP supernova?
thanks,
Alex
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post #595 of 3787 Old 05-04-2007, 12:14 PM
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Hi

I currently have a 104" wide electric tensioned stewart grayhawk, with a roller of masking, and recently got a RS 1 to replace my G15. I currently have it mounted about 7' high but can move it down if need be. I have the system in my living room and have a lot of ambiant light when not watching movies at night. I would like to be able to watch something when the place is not in bat cave mode and have a bigger screen.

The sheen on the grayhawk always bothered me but I assumed it was the price I paid for having a quality screen. I also have a Z4 in my vacation place projecting on a white painted wall with black masking material on three sides which looks quite good with no sheen to it. I LIKE.

I find to reload the stewart box with studiotek 130 is going to cost me a little over 3k while a new high power electric with masking, 116" wide, but not tensioned is going to run $4500. The studiotek still has a sheen to it as I hear it. The high power has no sheen according to posters here.

I was advised by one vendor against the HP at that size in a Horizon Electrol since, supposedly, I may have issues with the screen not being flat. I have no AC vents or the like to deal with though.

Any comments on any of my assumptions and things I have heard?

Thanks for any replies.

Larry

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post #596 of 3787 Old 05-04-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videohot View Post

The high power has no sheen according to posters here.

I was advised by one vendor against the HP at that size in a Horizon Electrol since, supposedly, I may have issues with the screen not being flat. I have no AC vents or the like to deal with though.

Larry


Nothing to comment except a big thanks as I was considering ordering a

73.5"H X 174"W VA
.75" BORDERS
CASE LENGTH: 185" HP Cosmo in front of a


PRO IMAGER,78X139(104) HD
74"H X 131.5"W VA, 16:9 FORMAT
MASKING TO:
74"H X 98.75"W VA, 4:3 FORMAT

In front of a

DA‚ąíSNAP,DM 78X139NPA 159DIAG
HIGH POWER
74"H X 131.5"W VA

To achieve three aspect ratios.

Is the size of the big roll down going to likely cause a waviness problem?
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post #597 of 3787 Old 05-04-2007, 12:32 PM
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This is a "what fact am I missing?" kind of question...

Da-lite sells a Model B hi power, 106", 16:9 AR (54"x96"). They also sell a Model B hi power 120", 4:3 AR (72"x96"), apparently for lower cost (over $50 difference). Since most DVDs I watch are widescreen format, and therefore don't take the full vertical height of a 16:9 screen anyway, what would be the reason for choosing the smaller, more expensive 16:9 screen? Or, better, what would be the reason for not choosing the less expensive 4:3?

Thanks.
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post #598 of 3787 Old 05-04-2007, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhisent View Post

This is a "what fact am I missing?" kind of question...

Da-lite sells a Model B hi power, 106", 16:9 AR (54"x96"). They also sell a Model B hi power 120", 4:3 AR (72"x96"), apparently for lower cost (over $50 difference). Since most DVDs I watch are widescreen format, and therefore don't take the full vertical height of a 16:9 screen anyway, what would be the reason for choosing the smaller, more expensive 16:9 screen? Or, better, what would be the reason for not choosing the less expensive 4:3?

Thanks.

Usually the 16:9 screens will have a black border. The 106" viewable (white) area is actually 92"x52". The other screen might not have the black border and black drop, i.e., it would be like pulling down a big white sheet. The HDTV format screen will look like a defined white rectangle and the black border is supposed to help make the image look better.
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post #599 of 3787 Old 05-04-2007, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiler View Post

Even with both horizontal and vertical offset
there is actually a fairly simple formula to calculate the off-axis angle. It is


angle = arccos( d / (d^2 +v^2+h^2)^(1/2) )

where d is the distance from the screen, v is the distance off axis in the vertical
and h is the distance off axis in the horizontal.



If there is interest, I could try to put together a spread sheet
that would show estimated gains with respect to various
vertical and horizontal offsets as a function of
seating distance.

if you do the speadsheet, it might be good to include the gain in it. I for one, think it would be useful.
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post #600 of 3787 Old 05-04-2007, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videohot View Post


I was advised by one vendor against the HP at that size in a Horizon Electrol since, supposedly, I may have issues with the screen not being flat. I have no AC vents or the like to deal with though.

Any comments on any of my assumptions and things I have heard?

Thanks for any replies.

Larry

There is no sheen to the High Power. The surface completely dissappears. You cant see waves on this screen so no tensioning is generally required.

The Studiotec 130 and High Power are completely different materials that do completely different things
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