HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 27 - AVS Forum

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neekos's Avatar neekos
09:15 PM Liked: 14
post #781 of 3787
08-18-2007 | Posts: 1,154
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I assume your projector will have little to no offset to get the optimal effects ? This was my point with my current PJ the Mits 1000. I'd love to get the HP but no matter what PJ I get in the future, it has to be celing mounted, thus I would be negating some or most of the benefits of the screen.
agent68's Avatar agent68
10:13 PM Liked: 10
post #782 of 3787
08-18-2007 | Posts: 13
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You are correct that the HP may not be the best choice for a ceiling-mounted PJ.

When you say "offset", are you referring to lens shift? If so, my installation actually requires some horizontal and vertical lens shift, but it matters not. All that matters is that the viewers be seated as close as feasible to the projector. In other words, my seats are "offset" by similar amounts to the PJ, so life is good.
Nedtsc's Avatar Nedtsc
05:34 AM Liked: 10
post #783 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 830
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Not necessarily, I'm seated 3 feet below my PJ and comparing wit a 1+ gain angular reflective screen side by side and HP is still significantly brighter.
The only screen brighter than HP in my settup is Vutec SS, but the sheen is quite bothersome, HP seems to disappear when image is projected.

Try some samples or better yet get to to see it in action.
ctviggen's Avatar ctviggen
06:25 AM Liked: 19
post #784 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 1,918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

Yes but Bob, if my PJ is celing mounted and the screen is set accordingly to its offset, shouldn't I theoretically be getting the same results with the HP ?

All that matters on the angles, however the angles are created. If you draw a line (or run a string) as discussed above (from the center of the projector's lens to a point on the screen -- typically the dead center -- and then to your eyes in your normal sitting position), the angle determined using this method is what's important. It doesn't matter whether or not you're using horizontal or vertical offset.

In my case, I have a projector but do not have it mounted, nor do I have the screen. So I'm estimating the angle. I'm also picking up a high power because I'm buying a manual pulldown, and supposedly the HP eliminates viewing of the waves in such a screen (the waves are there but you don't see them while watching movies). I'd rather have a different screen/surface, but this house isn't conducive to that.
neekos's Avatar neekos
08:17 AM Liked: 14
post #785 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 1,154
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Thanks Bob. I appreciate the feedback.

Agent68, by offset, I mean the projector's offset. For example, if the projector was table mounted, the image would be a certain distance higher on the wall when projecting an image and would not be a straight line from the center of the lens to the screen.
agent68's Avatar agent68
09:29 AM Liked: 10
post #786 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 13
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Neekos, we're on the same page then. If the angles aren't too severe, you may have good luck with an HP after all, based on comments above.
Imageek2's Avatar Imageek2
11:06 AM Liked: 10
post #787 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 390
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Here is a way to determine your possible viewing angle with the HP.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

Side "b" is the distance from the projector lens to the screen. It doesn't have to be the center of the screen. Side "a" is the distance from the projector lens to your eyes. If your seating is in front of or behind the projector, for the purposes of this calculation pretend it is directly over your head.

Angle "A" is your answer. If the angle is less than 15 degrees you will most likely see increased gain from the HP. At around 10 degrees or less the screen gets pretty bright.
neekos's Avatar neekos
11:36 AM Liked: 14
post #788 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 1,154
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If I go by those calculations, I would be over 21%. Please help me if these figures are correct:

From Lens to screen is 14.5 ft
From lens to eyes is 6 ft (behind me, ceiling mounted)

does that sound right ?
Tutmos's Avatar Tutmos
12:22 PM Liked: 10
post #789 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 345
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Don't measure from the actual lens if it's mounted behind you. Draw a line from the lens to the screen and hypotheticaly move the lens forward on that line until it is the same distance from the screen as the observer, not the same distance from a single point on the screen but instead making a line between your head and the lens parallel to the screen surface. Now measure the angle.
neekos's Avatar neekos
12:57 PM Liked: 14
post #790 of 3787
08-19-2007 | Posts: 1,154
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ok

thanks. That is more reasonable in terms of angle for me.
kdavis220's Avatar kdavis220
12:27 PM Liked: 10
post #791 of 3787
08-24-2007 | Posts: 181
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I'd just like to thank all the posters for sharing their knowledge, experiences and information about High Power screens. Following the thread has pushed my curiosity to get the HP screen and I can not say enough about how much better and such a big difference/improvement it has made. I didn't think I'd be able to tell the perceived contrast difference as much as I was able to. This screen makes it seem as though I have a new, better performing projector. In all honesty, it is amazing how much life this has brought back to my projector. I currently have around 2800hrs on my Sanyo Z4 bulb and with my old High Contrast Grey screen it looked very dim...now it's an absolute pleasure.

Thanks again all and I'm off to enjoy it.

[edit]

Also, if you are/were like me and worried about black levels, the higher gain screen does nothing to take away from this. I had a sample of an HP screen from Da-lite to test and ofcourse comparing the small sample to a full screen of high contrast grey the blacks seemed a bit brighter(more grey) but you also have to take into consideration that your eyes will be seeing much brighter whites and by comparison (contrast) your black levels will look just fine if not a little better because of the brighter whites. Now I'm no optometrist but I know what looks pleasing to me and this screen has exceeded my expectations.
Digital2004's Avatar Digital2004
04:46 PM Liked: 11
post #792 of 3787
08-24-2007 | Posts: 2,779
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we could say the black level in ftl rises by the same % gain correct ?
say 2.0 and if blevel is 0.005 ftl then resulting blevel is 0.01 ?
kdavis220's Avatar kdavis220
08:28 AM Liked: 10
post #793 of 3787
08-25-2007 | Posts: 181
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Digital2004, I would think so. Because, ofcourse, the screen doesn't change what the projector is throwing at it, it's just how it reflects it back (wether if that is reflecting the image back with a lower gain and everything will be darker/dimmer or at a higher gain where everything will be brighter). I maybe mistakened but logically that sounds right.
Digital2004's Avatar Digital2004
10:31 AM Liked: 11
post #794 of 3787
08-25-2007 | Posts: 2,779
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hi
i think so too. therefore high gain works better with pj who have already a very low blevel or very high onoff contrast.
also probably all gain screens work better if the lens is close to the center (height) of the screen which makes high ceiling installed pj a waste of money in terms of gain.
Imageek2's Avatar Imageek2
12:12 PM Liked: 10
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08-25-2007 | Posts: 390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

also probably all gain screens work better if the lens is close to the center (height) of the screen which makes high ceiling installed pj a waste of money in terms of gain.

There are literally hundreds of us here on this forum with High Power screens and ceiling mounted projectors who would disagree with this statement. The High Power's gain has nothing to do with the projector being mounted close to the center of the screen, but the projector being mounted close to the center of your eyes. If the distance from your eyes to the projector and the distance from the projector to the screen is within the parameters that have been discussed here and on other threads, you will see increased gain from the HP, and your money will not be wasted.
Digital2004's Avatar Digital2004
12:27 PM Liked: 11
post #796 of 3787
08-25-2007 | Posts: 2,779
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hi
i understand what you mean but let's say this:
1. some projectors like optoma, pdesign have an offset. contrary to the sony and jvc (VW50 RS1) which are conceived centered to the screen (shifts at zero)
2. in that context the height at which the screen is illuminated by the projector and the importance of the shift used (vertical) play a role too in the maximization of the gain sent back to the viewers.

but i said i do understand yr point and that indeed the eyes at similar height of the projector beam probably perceive higher brigthness. i noticed that in theaters we we sit on the back rows of the movie theater.

interesting topic and paramount to our seek for maximum FTL with low brigthness home theater projectors.... unfortunately. it's very much time SONY JVC SIM2 OPTOMA provide machines in the 5-10K range with 1500ansi lumens at D65 (!) or 2000ansi.
Imageek2's Avatar Imageek2
04:59 PM Liked: 10
post #797 of 3787
08-25-2007 | Posts: 390
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My projector has an offset as well. It sits about 6 inches below the top of my screen. In actuality the top of the screen is probably brighter than the bottom of the screen simply because of the shorter distance the light has to travel. The reality is though that I don't perceive a difference in brightness. The image appears to be uniform across the entire screen. If my projector was centered with no offset and I was getting the full 2.8 gain of the HP, the entire screen would appear to me to be 2.8. If because of the ceiling mount my gain at the top of the screen to my eyes is 1.5, I perceive the entire screen to be 1.5. Might someone else see a difference from top to bottom? Probably, but I don't.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
09:28 PM Liked: 327
post #798 of 3787
08-29-2007 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imageek2 View Post

Here is a way to determine your possible viewing angle with the HP.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

Side "b" is the distance from the projector lens to the screen. It doesn't have to be the center of the screen. Side "a" is the distance from the projector lens to your eyes. If your seating is in front of or behind the projector, for the purposes of this calculation pretend it is directly over your head.

Angle "A" is your answer. If the angle is less than 15 degrees you will most likely see increased gain from the HP. At around 10 degrees or less the screen gets pretty bright.

Define pretty bright. Is that a good thing or a bad thing. I am seriously contemplating replacing my doable homemade screen for a DIY hi power screen. Plugging in the calculator numbers I get 9.91 deg for the front row and 7.46 for the back. Would this be overkill with my Epson TW700? It is run in Theater Black mode with 0 ambient light.
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark
09:36 PM Liked: 182
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08-29-2007 | Posts: 10,496
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It's not going to be overkill. Bright is good. If it's too bright, filter it until the lamp dims enough to take the filter off. My Sharp 20k was almost to bright when I first added the HP, but that changed after about 600 hours, when it was just right. Now, at almost 1700 hours, the image is still very watchable, although the lamp is significantly dimmer than it was before. You will be very happy with an HP.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
09:40 PM Liked: 327
post #800 of 3787
08-29-2007 | Posts: 4,157
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Thanks Joe, highpower here I come.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
03:29 PM Liked: 327
post #801 of 3787
08-30-2007 | Posts: 4,157
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I went to order the highpower today and was really surprised at the pricing on it. Is it that much better? I can get a complete Carada Criterion series, brilliant white with frame, shipped to my door for about the same price as the highpower screen only.
Kevin McCarthy's Avatar Kevin McCarthy
06:43 PM Liked: 10
post #802 of 3787
08-30-2007 | Posts: 729
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Who did you have quote it? AVS has great prices on HP.

Kevin
kjohn's Avatar kjohn
07:02 PM Liked: 10
post #803 of 3787
08-30-2007 | Posts: 1,450
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Has anyone tried the Draper M2500 material I think its a 2.5 gain.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
09:21 PM Liked: 327
post #804 of 3787
08-30-2007 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin McCarthy View Post

Who did you have quote it? AVS has great prices on HP.

Kevin

The closest company I could find which was 4 hrs away. I don't think it will make that much of a difference. Da-lite themselves quoted a retail of 30.00 per square foot. For a 96" screen that's roughly 28 square feet. At retail that is a cost of 840.00 bucks. I don't know why but I had around 350-400.00 in my head seeing as it is just the screen and it's not really designed for HT use anyway. That's what I get for thinking.
Tutmos's Avatar Tutmos
01:52 AM Liked: 10
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08-31-2007 | Posts: 345
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It's nowhere near $900 for a 96" pulldown hp. It's not even $900 for a 159" hp pulldown.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
09:28 AM Liked: 327
post #806 of 3787
08-31-2007 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutmos View Post

It's nowhere near $900 for a 96" pulldown hp. It's not even $900 for a 159" hp pulldown.

That's what I thought. Guess it's time to bug Jason.
RobZ's Avatar RobZ
09:59 AM Liked: 17
post #807 of 3787
08-31-2007 | Posts: 3,546
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Are waves more prominent (during viewing) when the gain is decreased such as when mounting the projector high? I notice waves at the lower corners during pans. Due to WAF, kids, as well as aesthetic reasons (in family room), my Pearl is mounted about 16" down from a 10' ceiling while my electric screen (119") sits pretty low. As expected, I can see a gain difference (a bit too bright in low lamp) when I stand up underneath the projector.
javry's Avatar javry
03:46 PM Liked: 11
post #808 of 3787
08-31-2007 | Posts: 2,524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

It's not going to be overkill. Bright is good. If it's too bright, filter it until the lamp dims enough to take the filter off. My Sharp 20k was almost to bright when I first added the HP, but that changed after about 600 hours, when it was just right. Now, at almost 1700 hours, the image is still very watchable, although the lamp is significantly dimmer than it was before. You will be very happy with an HP.

I'm betting if he'll do this, he'll be fine. I couldn't believe how much Tthe PQ improved the first time I watched flashed up the HP.
bretep's Avatar bretep
09:21 AM Liked: 10
post #809 of 3787
09-08-2007 | Posts: 4
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Which budgetprojector is the best combination to get get a good picture in an ambient light not controlled enviroement with an 92 inch HP. Panasonic ax100, HD70, Epson TW700 and so on? (sorry for my english i am from the artic circle in Sweden and doing my very best)
MarkV's Avatar MarkV
07:05 AM Liked: 10
post #810 of 3787
09-09-2007 | Posts: 224
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I have a designer electrol contour coming. Is the screen centered or offset in the housing?
Tags: Projection Screens , Projectors , Da Lite Screens , Da Lite High Power Hdtv Format Ascender Electric Projector Screen , Dalite Model C Video Format 105 X 140 Inch High Power Projection Screen

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