HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3787 Old 09-09-2007, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bretep View Post

Which budgetprojector is the best combination to get get a good picture in an ambient light not controlled enviroement with an 92 inch HP. Panasonic ax100, HD70, Epson TW700 and so on? (sorry for my english i am from the artic circle in Sweden and doing my very best)

Any projector that will allow near-eye-level (center-screen) mounting. This typically means an LCD projector with lens shift. Avoid projectors that require a high ceiling mount (typically DLP).
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post #812 of 3787 Old 09-09-2007, 07:42 AM
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Thanks for the answer FLBoy! Do you think PanasonicAX100 is to bright for the HP?
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post #813 of 3787 Old 09-09-2007, 10:23 AM
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Nothing's too bright for the HP. If you need to, filter it and remove the filter when the lamp dims.

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post #814 of 3787 Old 09-09-2007, 12:06 PM
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Guys,

Folks over at the Projector Forum sent me here... I'm struggling to find a bright 720p or 1080p with good contrast that will work with HP and offer me flexibility for both daytime and evening viewing in my family room.

I've got 7 projectors on my short list for use in my family room as a night time cinema setup and possibly even a day time (with modest light control) for use as a potential regular TV viewing setup. ( Here's my short list: Epson ProCinema 1080, Mits HC6000, Mits HC1500, JVS RS1, Sharp Z3000, Sanyo Z5 & Optoma HD80).

I was told that the setup below wont work with HP and the Mits HC1500 because of the lack of Offset on the Mitsubishi...

I need some guidance on what you knowledgeable fine folks would recommend regarding screen / projector combo given my constraints - (see below).

Thanks!!! bradesp

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post #815 of 3787 Old 09-09-2007, 01:38 PM
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1- For HP screen, near eye level; for other screens, depends on the PJ offset adjustment limits.

2- 1/3 below seated eye level and 2/3 above.

3- HP works best for eye-level PJ mounting and narrow (+/- 15 degree) seating arrangements.

4- Not for those seats. Your screen gain would be less than 1. (See graph in the first post of this thread.)

5- Ambient light is not a friend of front projection--less so with large screens. Install some blackout shades.

In your shoes, I would probably consider a ceiling mounted RS1 and a 123" 16x9 Vutec Silverstar screen.
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post #816 of 3787 Old 09-09-2007, 03:11 PM
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3. Hp is fine at 30 degrees, especially at only 133" diag with an RS1. Mine is fine at 30 degrees on a 159" with moderate ambient light. The ideal spot is of course the center seat, it will be brighter there but it's still good on the edges. The only thing I'd suggest for your setup to improve things is to lower the projector down with an extension bar or lower shelf if that's how you're mounting it and raise the screen up a bit.

The tight angle requirement often stated for HP's is pretty overblown. By the time you're sitting on the edges it's like watching a standard gain screen.

HP screens are the most friendly of projection screens for ambient light. Unless the light is coming from behind near the projector it won't bother things too much, at least much less so than standard screens.

As I mentioned the only thing I'd change is to lower the projector closer to head level and raise the screen a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLBoy View Post

1- For HP screen, near eye level; for other screens, depends on the PJ offset adjustment limits.

2- 1/3 below seated eye level and 2/3 above.

3- HP works best for eye-level PJ mounting and narrow (+/- 15 degree) seating arrangements.

4- Not for those seats. Your screen gain would be less than 1. (See graph in the first post of this thread.)

5- Ambient light is not a friend of front projection--less so with large screens. Install some blackout shades.

In your shoes, I would probably consider a ceiling mounted RS1 and a 123" 16x9 Vutec Silverstar screen.

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post #817 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 08:41 AM
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Since there seems to be some dispute over what I have written above, let me describe what I see with my 100" HP screen from my primary seating position at 12 degrees error angle as opposed to what I see from a seat at 30 degrees. Then you can decide. At 12 degrees I see a bright picture with lots of "pop". At 30 degrees I see the same picture, just a lot dimmer. There is nothing else wrong with the picture (no sheen, no abnormal color or side-to-side brightness variation, nothing weird). It's just dim.

How dim? Well, if you believe the graph in the first post of this thread, at 12 degrees the screen gain is about 1.65. At 30 degrees the gain is about 0.65. This is a ratio of 2.5, so the brightness at my primary viewing position is 2.5 times the brightness at a 30 degree position. Some may consider this brightness variation "fine." Personally, if my primary viewing position were as dim as what I see at 30 degrees, I would be ready to spring for a new bulb. (PJ is Epson Home 1080 in Theater Black I mode.) YMMV.
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post #818 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 12:18 PM
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I agree. From the diagram, your setup looks very similar to mine with my Firehawk screen. The HP was just too dim for my taste in that configuration. I lowered the projector well over 2 feet and it rocks.

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post #819 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 01:43 PM
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Joe,

I think I follow, but I'm not sure... Are you saying you are using an HP screen or a FireHawk screen? It sounds like you lowered your projector to hit the HP more "head on", but then you mention the FireHawk... BTW, which projector? And are you now using the HP with the lowered projector or the Firehawk?

Thanks!

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post #820 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 04:24 PM
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Sorry. I couldn't have made that much fuzzier if I'd tried.

I have a Sharp XV-Z20000 (1080p DLP single chip) projector shining on an HP 110" Cinema Contour screen. It's mounted at a level just above my head from the main viewing position. I've never formally measured the gain, but it has to be well over 2+. When I had the same projector shining on a Stewart Firehawk 109" screen, but mounted near the ceiling, it was far too dim to be satisfying, even when the lamp was new. The HP screen, when mounted in that same high position, was also too dim to get good gain, even when the lamp was new. When I dropped the Sharp down to just above eye level, with the HP, the screen lit up like a torch in the night sky. OK, a little hyperbole, but it was amazing. I have over 1800 hours on the Sharp's original lamp now (on its best settings) and it's still very watchable. The Sharp is not a very bright projector, even when the lamp is new (I keep saying that). I know one owner who changed out the lamp after about 700 hours because it had dimmed to under half its brightness and wasn't providing a bright enough image. I expect to get from 2500-3000 hours on that lamp before I'll have to replace it.

Better?

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post #821 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post

I have a designer electrol contour coming. Is the screen centered or offset in the housing?

Hello:

I believe that is the same model I have. It is centered. Power enters from the left.

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post #822 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 05:57 PM
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Joe,

Thanks, MUCH clearer. OK, so here's a question. How do you and others navigate into your room without disrupting the displayed image since the projector is so low because of the angles necessary to use an HP screen? If I'm using this kind of setup in a family room (as opposed to a dedicated home theater) isn't this a bit impractical? At home my wife and kids routinely go to grab snacks or make potty breaks during a movie without pausing the DVD. Just curious.

Thanks,

bradsep
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post #823 of 3787 Old 09-10-2007, 06:23 PM
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Any time you have a projector that isn't ceiling mounted, you're going to have the occasional blockage. In my room, the "exit aisle" is along one wall, making it relatively easy to come and go with minimal disruption. Of course, there are only 2 of us in the house most of the time, so that eases those concerns. When I saw the HP image on a sample Da-Lite sent me, I knew I had to have it. I found a way to lower the projector and I have enjoyed it ever since. I realize, though, that my arrangement isn't going to work for everyone. I'd prefer a ceiling mount. That's what I had for several years. I have never regretted going with the HP, though - not for a minute. It's a much better screen than the Firehawk. No sparklies/shimmers, no hotspotting, no color shifting. I think a lot of people could make the HP work in their theaters, but if you have wide spaced seating (too severe off-angle viewing), you should look elsewhere.

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post #824 of 3787 Old 09-11-2007, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradesp View Post

Joe,

Thanks, MUCH clearer. OK, so here's a question. How do you and others navigate into your room without disrupting the displayed image since the projector is so low because of the angles necessary to use an HP screen? If I'm using this kind of setup in a family room (as opposed to a dedicated home theater) isn't this a bit impractical? At home my wife and kids routinely go to grab snacks or make potty breaks during a movie without pausing the DVD. Just curious.

Thanks,

bradsep

Hello:

My PJ is on a cabinet resulting in a hight of about 5 to 5.5 feet. I am very happy since I can access the PJ without using a ladder. It also allows for easy movement of the unit for cleaning or tweaking.

Blocking some of the picture is going to happen but generally whenever someone is getting up or moving, the show is paused (food break/bio break, etc.).

I have had mine set up for about 6 months and the issue never crossed my mind.

Splotto
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post #825 of 3787 Old 09-11-2007, 07:19 AM
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Our PJ is on a three-foot pedestal at the rear of the room. The picture is interrupted briefly whenever someone walks in front of it. The interruption is so quick that it is hardly noticeable--certainly nothing we are concerned about. There are usually only the two of us. I suppose if we were in the habit of inviting large numbers of friends over for a game or movie, it could become more problematic.
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post #826 of 3787 Old 09-11-2007, 01:23 PM
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Forget about the Hp if you are ceiling mounting or even shelf mounting if high on the back wall. I went this route and was very disappointed. Saw the light and sold the Hp and replaced it with a Vutec Silverstar. The SS along with the Mits 1000 looks better than several high end installs I saw at the salon type HT stores.

Do not buy off on how great the Hp is at 30 degrees offcenter. I would classify it as unwatchable. The image is dim and has no pop as indicated by some of those who are being honest with their observations. The viewers in the "cheap seats" will feel like second class viewers.
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post #827 of 3787 Old 09-11-2007, 02:59 PM
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I bought a new HP based on this thread and Darrin's recommendations. I really like it, but I fall under the ideal conditions so that's to be expected, I guess. I had a SilverStar previously and a GreyHawk before that. My main reason for upgrading was to get a Scope screen and the HP is cheaper and easier to work with than the SilverStar. I was only hoping it would look as good. I'm pleasantly surprised it looks better than my old SS did in my room.

 

 

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post #828 of 3787 Old 09-11-2007, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcewin View Post

Forget about the Hp if you are ceiling mounting ... I went this route and was very disappointed. Saw the light and sold the Hp and replaced it with a Vutec Silverstar. The SS along with the Mits 1000 looks better than several high end installs I saw at the salon type HT stores.

hmcewin, just curious, did you look at other screens in addition to the HP? I'm struggling with the cost of the SilverStar, but more importantly I failed to mention that my setup REQUIRES a roll-down screen :-( Is there another roll-down that might approach the results you're getting with the SilverStar?

Thanks!

-brad
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post #829 of 3787 Old 09-11-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcewin View Post

Forget about the Hp if you are ceiling mounting or even shelf mounting if high on the back wall. I went this route and was very disappointed. Saw the light and sold the Hp and replaced it with a Vutec Silverstar. The SS along with the Mits 1000 looks better than several high end installs I saw at the salon type HT stores.

Do not buy off on how great the Hp is at 30 degrees offcenter. I would classify it as unwatchable. The image is dim and has no pop as indicated by some of those who are being honest with their observations. The viewers in the "cheap seats" will feel like second class viewers.

I have the Mits 1000 and was thinking of putting it at a throw of 16' to a Hp 110" screen. I thought I could mount it about seven feet from floor level on a shelf but from what you are saying, that will not work. Why where you disappointed with your initial install? Is there another application I can use the Hp and Mits together (coffee table type is not possible)?

shortspark
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post #830 of 3787 Old 09-12-2007, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcewin View Post

Forget about the Hp if you are ceiling mounting or even shelf mounting if high on the back wall. I went this route and was very disappointed. Saw the light and sold the Hp and replaced it with a Vutec Silverstar. The SS along with the Mits 1000 looks better than several high end installs I saw at the salon type HT stores.

Do not buy off on how great the Hp is at 30 degrees offcenter. I would classify it as unwatchable. The image is dim and has no pop as indicated by some of those who are being honest with their observations. The viewers in the "cheap seats" will feel like second class viewers.

The HP will work quite well with a ceiling mount or a shelf mount on a back wall as countless of us here will attest. In fact it has nothing to do with the mounting and everything to do with the angle that a particular viewer will have to the projector. If your seating falls within a certain known range then the HP will be a great screen with any projector. If it falls outside that range it will work no better than Blackout Cloth. For those interested in determining whether the HP would work in their situation there have been a number of posts in this thread with a link to a right angle calculator and instructions on its use for finding your angle of view, and how that angle might work with the HP, no matter how you choose to mount your projector.

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post #831 of 3787 Old 09-12-2007, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcewin View Post

Forget about the Hp if you are ceiling mounting or even shelf mounting if high on the back wall. I went this route and was very disappointed. Saw the light and sold the Hp and replaced it with a Vutec Silverstar. The SS along with the Mits 1000 looks better than several high end installs I saw at the salon type HT stores.

Do not buy off on how great the Hp is at 30 degrees offcenter. I would classify it as unwatchable. The image is dim and has no pop as indicated by some of those who are being honest with their observations. The viewers in the "cheap seats" will feel like second class viewers.


You sound angry. I agree that ceiling mounting "may" defeat much of the purpose. However, I would have more concern about waves being a bit more visible with the lower gain achieved. I can see waves during pans unless I am at a closer angle to the projector. Of course I am looking for them though. Overall, I'm pretty happpy with the perfomance. Oh, and it is more "watchable" than my previous Carada 1.3 gain (which I loved by the way). My VW50 is mounted on a 10' ceiling! (well with a foot of drop).
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post #832 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 12:22 PM
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How would the Focupix BriteG series (2.0 gain) compare to the Dalite Hi Power 2.8 gain?

http://www.htdepot.com/Focupix_Brite...creen_s/35.htm
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post #833 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

You sound angry. I agree that ceiling mounting "may" defeat much of the purpose. However, I would have more concern about waves being a bit more visible with the lower gain achieved. I can see waves during pans unless I am at a closer angle to the projector. Of course I am looking for them though. Overall, I'm pretty happpy with the perfomance. Oh, and it is more "watchable" than my previous Carada 1.3 gain (which I loved by the way). My VW50 is mounted on a 10' ceiling! (well with a foot of drop).

Not angry. Just sharing my first hand experience and opinion with those that asked.
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post #834 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradesp View Post

hmcewin, just curious, did you look at other screens in addition to the HP? I'm struggling with the cost of the SilverStar, but more importantly I failed to mention that my setup REQUIRES a roll-down screen :-( Is there another roll-down that might approach the results you're getting with the SilverStar?

Thanks!

-brad

Yes, in addition to owning the HP, I had a 1.5 gain Vutec Bright White. I also got samples from Da Lite of their many screen materials and a couple from Carada. I was only interested in a fixed frame screen so can not comment on the pull down ones.

Henry
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post #835 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 03:37 PM
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Would velvet or felt directly on the HP surface cause any damage? I have a 119" 16:9 pull down but really need to mask the top and bottom for wider stuff. Since it is a pull down my options are limited so I thought of wrapping some felt or velvet on a strip of vinyl siding and then using magnets to hold it in place during the movie. I could also use office "spring" paper clips, but I fear indent. Either way, the clip or magnet would be around the existing border.
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post #836 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milacqua View Post

I have the Mits 1000 and was thinking of putting it at a throw of 16' to a Hp 110" screen. I thought I could mount it about seven feet from floor level on a shelf but from what you are saying, that will not work. Why where you disappointed with your initial install? Is there another application I can use the Hp and Mits together (coffee table type is not possible)?

I had my Mits mounted at 7' and about 15 feet from the screen. That put the projector at about 40" above my head. Sitting just below the projector and about a 2' to the right or left I thought the picture was ok with about 1.5 to 1.8 gain. As I moved farther away from the center of the room towards either of the side walls there was a pretty dramatic dropoff in brightness. My room is 15' wide and I have sofas on both the side walls. When I would lie down to watch a show from one of the sofas, the gain would drop to below 1.0 gain which was not acceptable to me. This situation might work for you but I could not handle the various brightness levels from each of the different seats in my HT. The Silver Star solved all these issues. It is a fantastic screen if somewhat expensive. I figured I would only be buying one screen over the next few years and just went for it! And glad I did.

As a post script, I think the HP is a fantastic screen if the projector is mounted on a table in the middle of the room and shining directly at the screen. As a matter of fact, under these circumstances, it is the equal of the SS.

Good luck

Henry
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post #837 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 08:47 PM
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What is the 'extra drop' that can be added?
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post #838 of 3787 Old 09-13-2007, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcewin View Post

I had my Mits mounted at 7' and about 15 feet from the screen. That put the projector at about 40" above my head. Sitting just below the projector and about a 2' to the right or left I thought the picture was ok with about 1.5 to 1.8 gain. As I moved farther away from the center of the room towards either of the side walls there was a pretty dramatic dropoff in brightness. My room is 15' wide and I have sofas on both the side walls. When I would lie down to watch a show from one of the sofas, the gain would drop to below 1.0 gain which was not acceptable to me. This situation might work for you but I could not handle the various brightness levels from each of the different seats in my HT. The Silver Star solved all these issues. It is a fantastic screen if somewhat expensive. I figured I would only be buying one screen over the next few years and just went for it! And glad I did.

As a post script, I think the HP is a fantastic screen if the projector is mounted on a table in the middle of the room and shining directly at the screen. As a matter of fact, under these circumstances, it is the equal of the SS.

Good luck

Henry

I have narrow seating and my projector is set very low, just above eye level. If I had wide seating and a ceiling or high shelf mount, I wouldn't be using the HP in that room - trust me. I also know that the SS is a good solution for that sort of problem, but the sheen is quite noticeable to me. For others, it's not a problem. Fortunately, I was able to get samples from both Da-Lite and Vutec. That's what convinced me to go with the HP. I loved the HP gain in its narrow cone, and I didn't like the SS sheen, so HP it was.

Joe Clark

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post #839 of 3787 Old 09-14-2007, 01:07 AM
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For those of you who are interested in the HP screen and whether you will see any gain in a given configuration I have set up diagrammed instructions on measuring your current or proposed angle of view.

http://www.caromsoft.com/HPscreen.html

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post #840 of 3787 Old 09-14-2007, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imageek2 View Post

For those of you who are interested in the HP screen and whether you will see any gain in a given configuration I have set up diagrammed instructions on measuring your current or proposed angle of view.

http://www.caromsoft.com/HPscreen.html

Thanks. That is useful for determining the screen gain for a seat directly below a line from the PJ to the screen. It does not help one to find the gain for seats on either side of said line. I wonder if anyone has put together a program or spreadsheet for calculating that more comprehensive 3-D trig problem?
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Projection Screens , Projectors , Da Lite Screens , Da Lite High Power Hdtv Format Ascender Electric Projector Screen , Dalite Model C Video Format 105 X 140 Inch High Power Projection Screen

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