HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 3787 Old 02-04-2008, 06:35 PM
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Are people getting waves because they roll the screen up and down?
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post #992 of 3787 Old 02-04-2008, 06:36 PM
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That doesn't sound TOO bad.

Thanks for the encouragement. I guess I'll keep this option in the mix then.

Wayne
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post #993 of 3787 Old 02-04-2008, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

It is fairly easy as long as you don't try to do all the snapping while the screen is on the floor, as Da-Lite instructs. If you can hold it vertical (you'll need some help), the whole process is relatively painless. I lost about 5 pounds trying to do it according to the instructions.

Really agree, Joe! With my wife holding the frame vertical, it really wasn't bad at all. And the result with a fixed frame screen is outstanding. The only down side is the extra price, but I guess that just the way it is.
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post #994 of 3787 Old 02-04-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

I've been considering a fixed frame screen but don't wish to go through the hassles of stretching, sweating and swearing that most people seem to endure.

But you only have to do it once... one afternoon of hell... and then you're good to go forever more... or at least 'till you get upgrade-itis again.
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post #995 of 3787 Old 02-04-2008, 07:23 PM
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I thought I'd only get married once but upgraditis hit in a big way there too!

Wayne
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post #996 of 3787 Old 02-06-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

That doesn't sound TOO bad.

Thanks for the encouragement. I guess I'll keep this option in the mix then.

Wayne

It also makes the job easier if you snap the four corners first and then snap the rest.
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post #997 of 3787 Old 02-06-2008, 11:20 AM
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Yeah, that makes sense.

Wayne
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post #998 of 3787 Old 02-06-2008, 01:27 PM
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I guess on a 128x72 viewable DaLite HP screen, the Epson Pro Cinema 1080 UB would be barely making it? I mean the image would suffer due to the size of that screen? I am mounting it 12 inches from eye lvl and 14-18 ft throw. Would this not look good?

Or should I shrink the screen size (I dont want to!!!!) and get a cinema vision? Or keep the HP? I really want my 128x72. But someone told me the ProCinema1080UB would be hurting at that size/throw listed....

What to do?
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post #999 of 3787 Old 02-06-2008, 05:57 PM
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I am looking at the HP, Deluxe model B. Has anyone tried / seen it. Does the tension bar remove most of the waves in the screen? Also what's the difference between C and B models. I know the C models are heavier and can go larger so I assume it's more sturdy. Any other feedback on the two?

Viper
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post #1000 of 3787 Old 02-07-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarablue View Post

I guess on a 128x72 viewable DaLite HP screen, the Epson Pro Cinema 1080 UB would be barely making it? I mean the image would suffer due to the size of that screen? I am mounting it 12 inches from eye lvl and 14-18 ft throw. Would this not look good?

Or should I shrink the screen size (I dont want to!!!!) and get a cinema vision? Or keep the HP? I really want my 128x72. But someone told me the ProCinema1080UB would be hurting at that size/throw listed....

What to do?

The 128x72 HP should be plenty bright with that arrangement.
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post #1001 of 3787 Old 02-11-2008, 05:36 PM
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I sent this originally as PM to Tryg, and he suggested I post it here. Any advice would be appreciated. I have considered going a little larger in the screen (maybe the 58"x194"), but I only have about 13 feet available on the wall that is going to have the screen in front of it. I don't want to place it all the way to the right of that wall, or all viewing would be at an unnatural angle, plus I have floor standing speakers that need to go to the sides of the screen (42" high).

Another thing I didn't mention originally is that the room has a stepped ceiling that will be at 9 feet at the wall, stepping up to 10 feet a foot from the wall. Because of the requirement to clear a wall mounted set, the screen will be mounted recessed at the 10 foot level. I assume I will need an extended black border at the top of the screen. My understanding is that this is an orderable option. With that in mind and the screen being 54-58" high, how high can I afford to have the screen, without the sensation of looking "up" to watch the movie. I think some would be O.K. and would like the screen to be as high as possible to avoid the image clipping objects in the room.

The rest is as follows:
Re: Still like the Da-lite HP screen?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes post this to the forum.

yes it's a superb screen. If set up properly the best.

It's on thick vinyl so you cant tension it, light wont shine through it and you dont need to worry about it wrinkling.

although those dimensions aren't that large for a 2.8 gain screen. It should be very bright depending on the projector




Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronS
Tryg,

I'm currently building a new home and after reading your review, I felt the Da-lite High Power screen might be just what I'm looking for.

Do you still feel it is one of the best screens out there? I looking to use an electric screen and have considered one of the Da-lite masking screens, or the Director Electrol, an Advantage Electrol, or others.

I have a friend in the AV business and he tells me I really need a tensioned screen, or the edges will eventually start curling. The HP screen material only seems to be available in the non-tensioned screens.

Is there a reason for this? Why isn't the HP available in a tensioned screen? A fixed screen is not an option for me, as this will be in a family room (around 17'x19').

The plan would be to have an electric screen come down when wanting to do some "serious" movie watching, to cover a wall mounted flat screen of 55"-65" range. The screen will be probably the 54"x96" size and will need to be mounted offset from the wall by 1'-2'. The main seating position will be in the short dimension from the screen, probably around 13'-14' from the screen.

The projector is to be mounted behind the wall a foot or two above eye level while seated on the couch, with the lens around even with the wall, or slightly behind on a shelf in my master closet.

The room has windows to the East and I will not make it entirely light proof, but they will have blinds and curtains, so the light will be able to be subdued to a large extent and I likely would not use the projector unless it was dark outside. I live in a rural situation and it will be perfectly dark at night, other than moonlight, but that should be easily controlled.

Obviously there will be some seating positions in the setup that are not ideally located for the screen type and location, but if the image is of uniform brightness to them, and not washed out looking, I would think it would still be pretty cool. I'll likely use it mostly with just my wife and I, so I'm really wanting to optimize it for that.

The projector I'm designing it for is the JVC RS1, or RS2 (If I win the lottery )

Do you think this will be a winning combination?

Do I need to get a rear lined screen, since there will be space between the back and the wall, and it is possible light could hit the rear of the screen from windows/lights in the kitchen/breakfast area.

I'm hoping the retroreflective aspect of the screen will keep the ambient light situation manageable. My belief is that this should also minimize the effect of a light colored ceiling. I'll try to tone that down a little, but it's had to get any sort of WAF in painting the ceiling a very dark color.

My wife also likes a little illumination during many movies (If I don't whine too much). I think I've read it is best to have such lights mounted slightly in front of the seating position, aimed back towards the viewers?

Can you convince me that a non-tensioned screen will not curl? Otherwise an electric Da-lite HP screen may be part of my future!

Maybe I should have just posted this on the forum!

Thanks,

Aaron S
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post #1002 of 3787 Old 02-12-2008, 03:24 AM
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I'd like to be the voice in the wilderness again.

I tried out an HP screen years ago with an Infocus X1 and couldn't handle what it did to blacks.

I recently bought an RS1 and tried a HP out again after all the positive comments about the combination, with many saying the blacks on the RS1 are so good the increased level the HP causes doesn't matter.

I have to say that I wonder if we are looking at the same image.

My RS1 with my 120" HP screen was extraordinarily bright, which was nice. But the blacks were extraordinarily high as well. I assume most bought the RS1/Rs2 for the same reason I did - deep blacks and good whites.

But any projector can do bright whites. What makes the JVC (and the VW60 etc) unique is deep blacks too. With the HP, the RS1 can't. Even an ND2 filter didn't help, although it dulled the flaming whites.

My RS1 replaced a projector that could, in brightest mode, power out 1500 lumens. It was bright, peppy, contrasty etc etc. But blacks suffered.

That's what the RS1 looks like with the HP.

Again, I just don't get it.

Addendum:
I should qualify this by saying that I may have a brighter than normal RS1. Mine lights up my 125" grey screen just fine even after 700 hours. With the HP it was twice as bright as my 32" direct view monitor.
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post #1003 of 3787 Old 02-12-2008, 04:25 AM
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If the white level is fine for you then you don't need a HP screen otherwise it will do what you are seeing.

It's not true that all projectors can do bright whites - if the screen size is too large for the lumen output you are going to get a very low reflectance level, and if you don't like that kind of image then you will need a higher gain screen.

If you have a very large screen (lets say 15ft wide 16:9) and want a white level that is similar to cinema levels of reflectance then you may need the HP. For example, an HD1 with around 600 lumens when new will give you around 4.75 foot lamberts. That's less than the 12fL +- 2fL recommended for cinema so you will need the HP to bring you up to around those levels (depending on your line of view in the viewing cone).

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post #1004 of 3787 Old 02-12-2008, 06:59 AM
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AaronS- I have a family room HT similar to yours. I can assure you that with light walls and ceiling you will not get inky blacks no matter what PJ and screen you use. Having said that, I further believe that the High Power screen will give you the best contrast and the best rejection of the reflected wall/ceiling light, particularly if you can darken at least the rear of the HT room. My HP screen is slightly smaller (100" diag. 16:9) than your proposed size, and I do not find it too bright at all. The extra gain does advantageously allow me to run my Epson Home 1080 in the low-power Theater Dark mode for best color and reduced fan noise.
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post #1005 of 3787 Old 02-12-2008, 08:10 AM
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Steve, It does seem like we are looking at different things, for my RS1 with a 126" diag HP produces a very constrasty pic, with deep blacks (and detailed structure in them)--at least to my eyes! But as FLBoy said, it is imp to have the back wall (the one opposite the screen) as non-reflective as possible; I have dark drapes across it. I also have black material on the ceiling about 6 ft out from the wall the screen is on, and this made a quite noticeable improvement. But I do agreed that we all see things differently.
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post #1006 of 3787 Old 02-12-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Steve, It does seem like we are looking at different things, for my RS1 with a 126" diag HP produces a very constrasty pic, with deep blacks (and detailed structure in them)--at least to my eyes! But as FLBoy said, it is imp to have the back wall (the one opposite the screen) as non-reflective as possible; I have dark drapes across it. I also have black material on the ceiling about 6 ft out from the wall the screen is on, and this made a quite noticeable improvement. But I do agreed that we all see things differently.

Sometimes less than stellar blacks are the result of an improperly set "enhanced" input. It think it effects the black level floor. PC vs. video or something like that. Mine got set correctly a year ago and I've forgotten the exact details.
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post #1007 of 3787 Old 02-12-2008, 03:15 PM
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I have a 110" HP paired with a Sharp 20K 1080p projector. I need the extra brightness, because this is relatively dim projector. With the HP, I couldn't be happier with both white and black levels. I do have a very light controlled environment - from dark carpeting to dark navy blue colored walls and ceiling.

Joe Clark

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post #1008 of 3787 Old 02-14-2008, 05:05 PM
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Since my screen size is not that great, would I be better off using something like the upcoming SI Black Diamond material? Since it is angular reflective, I could move the projector mounting position higher, which would probably also reduce noise from the projector as perceived from the seating postions.

Maybe one of the near unity gain white or grey screens? I thought I had this figured out, and now I'm starting to wonder. I do think I can treat some of the walls in some manner to reduce reflections of light and sound. The home will have a western theme, and I can hang some decorations on the wall that should help overall.

AaronS
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post #1009 of 3787 Old 02-14-2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronS View Post

Since my screen size is not that great, would I be better off using something like the upcoming SI Black Diamond material? Since it is angular reflective, I could move the projector mounting position higher, which would probably also reduce noise from the projector as perceived from the seating postions.

Maybe one of the near unity gain white or grey screens? I thought I had this figured out, and now I'm starting to wonder. I do think I can treat some of the walls in some manner to reduce reflections of light and sound. The home will have a western theme, and I can hang some decorations on the wall that should help overall.

AaronS

The Black Diamond sounds promising, especially for those of us who do not have a bat cave, but it remains to be seen how well it performs when it comes out. If it performs as well as Screen Innovations claims it does, I will be buying one. If not, I will go with a high gain screen. You may have to wait a month or two before there's a decent amount of feedback on it.
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post #1010 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 05:27 AM
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(I copied my post from the +3000K forum - I am using an Epson Pro 1080UB with this screen)

I received my new screen yesterday and put 'r up...

It's a 139" x 78" DaLite High Power Model C. Since I like the brightness I was getting on my painted screen at 110" wide I tried to set everything up to give me a similar brightness.

I think I figured the new screen would be 1.8 the area of the old, so I aimed to get a gain of 1.8 with my setup.

Originally I decided to build a bar right behind my couch (chesterfield for us Canucks) that would also house the projector. This would have placed the projector near eye level and helped generate the highest gain. Once I got the projector, I realized it was bright enough to allow more flexible projector positioning. Plus I had the mount now anyways...

So, anyways it seems like I will be able to both ceiling mount the projector (I may let it hang at around 6 feet, so I will have to make an extension piece for the mount - the ceiling at that point is 9.5 feet), and also put it farther back trading some lumen for a bit more contrast.

I did a temporary setup and was very pleased with the results. The picture is bigger, but very similar in brightness and black level. In the past I have read posts saying a HP screen will ruin black level. Not if you are getting the screen to increase size, not brightness! If the HP increases brightness, but you also increase the area projected you end up with the same FL at the screen. If anything a blacks are a bit better because the HP screen will reject more ambient light (send it back towards it's source).

I mounted the screen too low for now, so will have to re-adjust. The bottom is more of less sitting on the floor. I like it like this, but don't have room for the centre speaker... I'll move it up 2 feet or so. That wall is 14' high, so I have lots of room to play with...

Other observations (many just reconfirming what has been written 1000 times on these forums...)

- no detectable hotspot
- screen surface/structure not visible
- less affected by projector/viewer positioning than I thought.
- does the case come in black? mine was white, I didn't think about that when ordering and I was not asked for a preference.

go big or go home! (or go home and go big)

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post #1011 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 06:09 AM
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That's one high wall you've got there. I can see how a 150" screen won't look too big on a surface that size.

The casing can be special ordered as black. There is an extra charge, usually around $40.00 or $60.00 some where in there if I'm not mistaken. If the option didn't come up while ordering the screen on line then I would have phoned the dealer and specified black.

You can cover it with black felt which you may need to hang anyway to cover the top bar on 2.35:1 presentations. What I've done is go to Home Depot and get a magnetic roll. I think it comes in packages of 10'. You can snip off what you need and place it along the edge of the black felt. It has a sticky back to it. The other side being magnetic, adheres to the metal casing and then you can adjust the felt up and down to align it perfectly with the bar and the image. Works great! So you'll be masking your top border and covering up the white casing at the same time.

Wayne
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post #1012 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 06:32 AM
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I'm thinking of getting this exact screen in the 133" size. Would you carefully inspect for waves. It must have some even if you can't see them when the projector is on. What I'm most worried about is slow panning shots. My 106" High Power has waves that can be seen when the projector is off but can't be seen when it's on except for these slow panning shots.

Wayne
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post #1013 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 08:12 AM
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quick question:

I have a ceiling mounted PJ about 12' from a 106" screen in an all white room. Will a High Power light up the white ceiling even more than a unity gain screen and if so will it be a big problem?
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post #1014 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post

I'm thinking of getting this exact screen in the 133" size. Would you carefully inspect for waves. It must have some even if you can't see them when the projector is on. What I'm most worried about is slow panning shots. My 106" High Power has waves that can be seen when the projector is off but can't be seen when it's on except for these slow panning shots.

Wayne

It does has some waves, but I have not noticed them in the projected image at all yet. I have only sampled a bunch of movies so I can't be sure I will never see them.

I will probably take the screen out of the case and fix it to the wall. I find a little extra tension just about takes out all the waves.

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post #1015 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

I'd like to be the voice in the wilderness again.

....

I recently bought an RS1 and tried a HP out again after all the positive comments about the combination, with many saying the blacks on the RS1 are so good the increased level the HP causes doesn't matter.

I have to say that I wonder if we are looking at the same image.

My RS1 with my 120" HP screen was extraordinarily bright, which was nice. But the blacks were extraordinarily high as well.
Again, I just don't get it.

Addendum:
I should qualify this by saying that I may have a brighter than normal RS1. Mine lights up my 125" grey screen just fine even after 700 hours. With the HP it was twice as bright as my 32" direct view monitor.

I think the HP makes sense if one uses it to maintain brightness on a larger area, not the other way around.
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post #1016 of 3787 Old 02-16-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shigaloo View Post

quick question:

I have a ceiling mounted PJ about 12' from a 106" screen in an all white room. Will a High Power light up the white ceiling even more than a unity gain screen and if so will it be a big problem?

Quick answer: Yes and yes, unless you move your PJ down to near eye level.
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post #1017 of 3787 Old 02-28-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

Are people getting waves because they roll the screen up and down?

I have the Model C w/CSR and I do not think i have any waves at all. I certainly haven't noticed any. The Model C has a wider roller it mitigates the risk of waves. When I get home I'll double check but I definitely have not noticed any waves at all, and I have the 119" paired with a Panny AX-100 - it's like a 10' plasma I swear

To be honest this post serves a double purpose - the screen in question is actually posted in "for sale" because I have 6" extra drop which I no longer want. Having moved into a house, the new space (in picture) has lower (7.5') ceilings and this makes the screen block all my AV components.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...?do=ad&id=3082

One day they'll be in a closet and out of sight anyway, but I need the extra 6" back so I can do multiple rows of seats without having people's heads smacking the ceiling.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...?do=ad&id=3082

I reviewed the forum rules and I believe this post is fine but I apologize if you feel spammed . Hopefully someone out there will be looking for this and will get a sweet deal
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post #1018 of 3787 Old 03-27-2008, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

F

All kidding aside, this shot does look like it was taken very slightly off axis and both SilverStar samples appear much brighter than the HP sample. What gives?

I've been toying with the idea of getting an 11' wide 2.35:1 HP to complement my 9' wide 16:9 SS as well. How high is the pj's lens from the floor and what is the height from the top of the HP's screens viewable area to the floor?

Yah that's got me confused also, why does the silverstar look WAY more brighter than the one you report being the brightest (HP)? Especially since the photo shows to be taken from straight on!

Still enjoying my silverstar just trying to make sense out of what's written and what's shown.
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post #1019 of 3787 Old 04-02-2008, 07:28 AM
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Hi folks. I have made it through about half of the posts here and think I have a good idea of what the HP will and will not do, but I would like to get my interpretations verified by those of you in the know:

1. To get max gain the HP should be placed at eye level of the viewer (not mid-point of screen?)

2. If ceiling mounted, the HP will provide an effective gain of 1.0.

Now, what I am unsure about is whether it is a good idea to use a HP on smaller size acreens. I was thinking of Carada BW but the HP has me curious now.

My set up is a 96" 16:9 diag. screen (I could go max 106" but frame would be but up against columns on each side. My seating is ~11-12 ft. back. I plan on adding a second tiered row ~16 ft. back (8 inch riser). I presently mount my projector (Sony HS-20) 14~ back but have flexibility to move back to 18-19 ft. back. 8 ft. ceiling painted beige. All other walls are GOM black (which I find to be quite reflective) and a very deep blue. Total light control. I plan on upgrading projector to probably the Epson 1080UB.

What bothers me about my DIY (behr silverscreen) screen is the light reflected on the side columns (currently 6" to each side of screen) and the ceiling. I planned on using a dark fabric but maybe a HP would help to get rid of the reflection, correct?

Also, if I mount my projector at eye level (not my preference but willing for 90% of movie watching) I can simply mount the projector on ceiling for football parties when there is walking around.

Sorry for the long post. I greatly appreciate your advice.

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post #1020 of 3787 Old 04-02-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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1. Incorrect. The projector should be as close to eye level as possible. The HP reflects light back to where it came from so the closer your eye level is to the source the brighter it will be.
2.If your talking your projector you are correct.
How are you going to move your projector regularly?

scott
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