HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 01:39 PM
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True gain on the SS is about 2.4, so twice as bright as the Firehawk seems about right. I went from a Firehawk to the SS and have been ecstatic about the results. My next plan is to try the High Power.

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post #182 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 01:48 PM
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Free,

Where did you hear that? That is the first time I've ever seen anyone say the gain is that low. I've always read 2.8 - 3.0 but know of no actual measurements on the SS. I currently don't have a way to measure mine but accurate info would be helpful regarding application of ND filters and other setup aspects. Thanks.
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post #183 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Free,

Where did you hear that? That is the first time I've ever seen anyone say the gain is that low. I've always read 2.8 - 3.0 but know of no actual measurements on the SS. I currently don't have a way to measure mine but accurate info would be helpful regarding application of ND filters and other setup aspects. Thanks.

Took some digging, but I found where I read it.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...brightness.htm

It correlates with what I have observed as well.

Phil
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post #184 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 02:57 PM
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smithfarmer: What projector are you using and screen? I have a sample of a Vutec SS coming and I currently have samples from DA-Lite. Same with speaker listening I am finding out screen choices are subjective to what "ones eyes like" so far I did not like any of the 3 samples in comparison to the older Vutec Britewhite I have. The only thing I did notice about the HP, is it made the whites on the womens eyes in the movie "Kindom of Heaven" Blu-Ray movie look whiter, but not by much and the rest of the picture seemed darker. I should have the Vutec SS here next week along with some Stweart samples.

Free: Thanks for posting that link, it is useful. Not a big fan of Projectorcentral because they flip flop on there reviews a lot. But they do have some useful info. The Studiotek/SS or even the Firehawk SST might be some different ways to go, Stewart was very helpful on the phone when I called as was Vutec.
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post #185 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Took some digging, but I found where I read it.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...brightness.htm

It correlates with what I have observed as well.

Free,

Thanks for the link. I must say that I don't put a lot of faith in PC but I'll give them the benefit of doubt here. Maybe tryg will take some measurements when he gets back from CES and post the results.
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post #186 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

smithfarmer: What projector are you using and screen?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7433773

It's my first pj and I've had it around 2 years. Time to upgrade and I'm currently on the RS1 preorder list.
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post #187 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kits View Post

That's exactly what my setup will probably look like. I am thinking to get an adjustable pole for my Chief RPA-U mount I got for my RS1 on preorder. When I have several friends and need that extra seat, I will lift the projector up by a feet or two.

I actually bought two Chief poles - one only three inches long for company time. The other is a CMS-012-018, which adds an adjustable 12"-18" drop. For those looking, Chief has two lines, CMA and CMS. The A series is simpler and cheaper, while the S series adds quick adjust capabilities and cable channeling.

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post #188 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Joe,

This may be a silly ? but was the SS sample oriented correctly? Before I bought my screen I got a sample from Vutec and it was in a 16:9 format. On the back were directoinal arrows to make sure that it was properly positioned for testing. I'm sure you had it correct but out of curiosity would you try turning the sample on it's side and describe what it looks like. Thanks.

Yes, the SS was oriented properly. I put it on its side and as you might expect, the gain changed as you moved left to right in the room. Move one direction and it darkens, move the other and it brightens slowly to full gain.

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post #189 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 06:06 PM
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Joe,

Like I said earlier, I figured you had it correct. When you posted that your sample was a 4:3 AR, the thought crossed my mind that maybe there was a bad batch of samples. Mistakes do happen on occasion

Interesting that when put on the side it behaves like the HP. Curiosity has gotten the better of me and now I'll have to break out my old sample to see this in action.
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post #190 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 06:40 PM
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smithfarmer: sweet setup, this will be my 4th projector, had the 10HT Sony/HS20 the HS51 and now the Pearl. Never had any issues with any of them, usually upgrade around every 3 years. Was looking at the RS1, but "I have not seen it" so I ordered the Pearl, similar to what is going on here, a lot of people talking what looks great is fine, makes it easier to narrow things down, but just like speakers, you need to hear them first before you buy, with projectors and screens you need to see them before you buy. I didn't see that much of a difference with the HP and my current view tech, which I had a bigger piece to compare, but I only saw very marginal differences. I am waiting for Stewart samples and the Vutec and should make my the call next week.... Great screen shots of your system, we watch movies mostly in the dark but occasionally we have one light on in back.
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post #191 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 07:31 PM
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Garmen,

Thanks for the kind words. I totally agree with seeing/hearing is believing but I must admit that I jumped the gun with the SS as I didn't wait for more samples to compare it with. If I had it to do over though I'd still pick the SS. Very happy with it. Everyone perceptions are different and all I can say is that it's great we have the choices that are available.

There were a few people claiming the SS totally washed out with any kind of ambient light and I felt the SS was being unjustly maligned. So those screenshots were taken to illustrate how it performs under differing amounts of ambient lighting and as you can see, it does quite well.
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post #192 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 10:27 PM
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smithfarmer,

Are going to mount the RS1 directly infront of the screen and use the HP or are you going to ceiling mount the HP and not get the full gain out of the HP? I am on the RS1 preorder also and am considering the HP and ceiling mounting the unit based on someone elses recommendation. Just curious for your thought on this as I am not completely convinced about this setup. Another issue in my case is that this will be a drop down screen and not fixed.
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post #193 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 10:45 PM
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smithfarmer: I take it all back what I said about the DA-LITE HS... Fricking wow!!!I am viewing some 1080p screen shots and it looks awesome, I was viewing it too close, I finally stepped back to my sitting position and bingo... Wow... More punch to the picture and that is what I was looking for. Basically it is like putting the Pearl I am using in High light mode without effecting the black levels. This is the winner so far for me, but I have other samples coming soon from Stewart and Vutec. My only concern is when I stand up the sample piece gets brighter.
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post #194 of 3787 Old 01-05-2007, 11:38 PM
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Garman,

What is your veiwing angle? I am probably looking at about a 15 to 17 degree viewing angle and am wondering if this is really the way to go form my setup as I am limited someone on screen materials due to my setup being a drop down. I have also heard the HP is less prone to waves than other materials and that is also a factor for me.

Thanks
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post #195 of 3787 Old 01-06-2007, 08:13 AM
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spann-man: Viewing angle isn't bad at all on my setup, the only thing I did notice about the HP is when I stood up it got brighter, which seemed odd, because then I was looking down at the sample piece.
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post #196 of 3787 Old 01-06-2007, 08:35 AM
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I am just about to order one of these, and I have a sample on the way. Are there any thoughts as to the advantages, or lack of difference between the varying housing options for this material?

I am looking at Fixed, Manually Retractable, and Electric screen solutions, and am hearing that this material does not need tensioning, but I am concerned, because I hated the wrinkles in my Firehawk, so I don't want to end up with something that is bothering me.

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post #197 of 3787 Old 01-06-2007, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I am just about to order one of these, and I have a sample on the way. Are there any thoughts as to the advantages, or lack of difference between the varying housing options for this material?

I am looking at Fixed, Manually Retractable, and Electric screen solutions, and am hearing that this material does not need tensioning, but I am concerned, because I hated the wrinkles in my Firehawk, so I don't want to end up with something that is bothering me.

My Firehawk is virtually perfect with the frame I chose. That was about 5 years ago, when Stewart first introduced it. I chose the Cinema Contour with Pro-Trim for the HP that I just ordered, because it looked as though that fixed frame style would be very close to the FH in appearance. I read a post about someone having trouble getting the snaps to fit on his HP Da-Lite fixed frame. Since it's such a rigid fabric, that could be a real problem. I haven't gotten shipping confirmation yet for the HP, but it's going up just about as soon as it gets here. I'll report back.

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post #198 of 3787 Old 01-06-2007, 09:06 AM
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My Firehawk, was an electric tensioned retractable. Although the tensioning worked, it was not perfect, especially if I rolled it up. I would spend hours using a hair dryer, to try to get the wrinkles out after it had been rolled up for a while.

I would go fixed, but I want to keep my Silverstar behind it for when I have a full room with off angle viewing.

Phil
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post #199 of 3787 Old 01-06-2007, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I would go fixed, but I want to keep my Silverstar behind it for when I have a full room with off angle viewing.

Same here, I plan on using the SS for 16:9 content and the HP will be strictly for 2.35:1 movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Viewing angle isn't bad at all on my setup, the only thing I did notice about the HP is when I stood up it got brighter, which seemed odd, because then I was looking down at the sample piece.

Is your pj is ceiling mounted? If it is, that is the reason why it gets brighter when you stand up as your eyes are closer to the pj and the retro-reflective nature of the HP is directing the light back towards where it came from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spann-man View Post

smithfarmer,

Are going to mount the RS1 directly infront of the screen and use the HP or are you going to ceiling mount the HP and not get the full gain out of the HP?

The RS1 will definitely be ceiling mounted as I want it up and out of the way. I am curious to hear how Joe's setup works out since that might be a viable option.

It will a couple of months before I do anything concerning the HP screen as I have to wait for the RS1 to ship and then put some time on the lamp before sending it out for calibration.
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post #200 of 3787 Old 01-06-2007, 03:36 PM
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smithfarmer: You got it PJ is about 3-4 feet above my head (Ceiling mount) ...... I have other samples coming next week. My frickin Direct TV Tivo unit died so I am in process of fixing that while I look for screens. So far the SS looks great, just wondering if the HP will be problematic if the brightness changes that much from differnet viewing angles.
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post #201 of 3787 Old 01-07-2007, 07:33 PM
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Someone correct me if I am wrong. I will have the RS1 about 4 feet above my head as several others have stated. My veiwing angle will be roughly 15 degrees (waiting on info on the RS1 mount). I will give up most of the gain of the HP but at worse it will be a 1.0 gain at most veiwing positions?? At least the 1.3 gain would help some and be similar in gain to a Studiotek 130 which is what I was leaning toward before.

Being out of the veiwing cone, I assume that will also elimiate any potential hotspotting. Are there any other issues to be concerned with re: the HP if you are outside of the viewing cone. Any other suggestions on alterative high gain screens for a manual/electric dropdown for this application. Prefer not to spend a ton as it is a short term installations as I will move in the next 2 years and plan to go to a fixed screen at that point.
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post #202 of 3787 Old 01-08-2007, 08:38 AM
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spann-man: It was my understanding that the HP Da-Lite is 2.8 gain, of course this changes on depending on setup etc.. I have a fixed screen and I am looking at high gain screen for the Sony Pearl, so far the HP is the best I have seen so far. There is a Vutec coming soon, that I will try, the SS.
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post #203 of 3787 Old 01-08-2007, 06:25 PM
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Today I ordered a High Power Screen from Da-lite and I should have it in about two weeks. After reading TRYG's comments/review and seeing the accompanying screen shots, I just had to have it. I probably should have asked some questions about proper setup first and now I am wondering if made a mistake. I have a low ceiling ( six feet, nine inches or 81 inches total). My Proj is ceiling mounted and has a 115 degree offset which, I understand, means that the image is projected downward about 15 inches from the center of the proj lens. I am not sure, but this offset is not something I can eliminate. This brings me to my dilema: Since I have to live with the offset, I can't table mount becasue the image would be too low and I cetainly don't have the height to even think about it. I keep reading that table mounting is ideal for high power, but is there any way my setup could possibly work with a ceiling mount?

The rest of my set up is this: On my 81 inch high wall/sceen, and with tilting the proj upward a bit, the top of the image is 8 inches from the ceiling while the bottom of the image is 11 inches from the floor. The Proj is installed about five inches down from the ceiling. My seating arrangement is such that the Proj is about about two feet behind and three feet above my head. I would really appreciate any comment from Tryg or anyone else on this matter.


Thanks, Milit
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post #204 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 12:38 AM
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I can't wait to get the HP! Tonight I experimented a little more with my Sharp 20000 projector and was getting very good brightness in High Contrast mode (iris closed fully), with the lamp set to high, on the Firehawk. With the HP and the close-to-eye-level I'll be able to set it, I should have plenty of brightness in economy lamp mode (saving roughly 1000 hours on the lamp life) and maximum contrast. With the cost of the Sharp lamp ($600), that makes the HP an even better investment. If I always use the Sharp in high lamp mode, by the time it gets to 1500 hours, the image will be unacceptably dim. In economy mode, the lamp maintains more of an even brightness over its lifetime, which should be extended from 2000 to 3000 hours. Add to this the ability to adjust gain for the HP simply by raising and lowering the projector and it begins to look like a way of keeping fairly uniform brightness over a lamp's life, while at the same time saving money on lamps. (We'll see if this theory plays out in real life.)

If I can get hold of a digital camera, I'd like to do a few comparison shots between the SS and the HP. Depending on the orientation, you get radically different impressions with the HP sample flat on top of the larger SS sample. Put your head near the light source (retro-reflective posture) and the HP looks like a snowy field next to a dull gray strip. Move your head down and orient the SS for maximum gain (angular-reflective posture) and the SS has the advantage in brightness. All in all, though, if you can get the right angle, I still prefer the HP for whiteness/brightness. If the surface is as uniform as reported, I know I'm going to love it.

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post #205 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milit View Post

Today I ordered a High Power Screen from Da-lite and I should have it in about two weeks. After reading TRYG's comments/review and seeing the accompanying screen shots, I just had to have it. I probably should have asked some questions about proper setup first and now I am wondering if made a mistake. I have a low ceiling ( six feet, nine inches or 81 inches total). My Proj is ceiling mounted and has a 115 degree offset which, I understand, means that the image is projected downward about 15 inches from the center of the proj lens. I am not sure, but this offset is not something I can eliminate. This brings me to my dilema: Since I have to live with the offset, I can't table mount becasue the image would be too low and I cetainly don't have the height to even think about it. I keep reading that table mounting is ideal for high power, but is there any way my setup could possibly work with a ceiling mount?

The rest of my set up is this: On my 81 inch high wall/sceen, and with tilting the proj upward a bit, the top of the image is 8 inches from the ceiling while the bottom of the image is 11 inches from the floor. The Proj is installed about five inches down from the ceiling. My seating arrangement is such that the Proj is about about two feet behind and three feet above my head. I would really appreciate any comment from Tryg or anyone else on this matter.


Thanks, Milit

How far back from the screen is your seating. We can calculate the gain with that and the distance between your eyes and the projector.

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post #206 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 07:40 AM
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Milit: I have almost a similar setup I was impressed with how much gain you get, but my PJ is about my head about 3-4 feet, and my projector does also project down, and I notice when I stand up the sample piece got much brighter, so I have some concerns about ordering this screen and will look into some other options before I decide.
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post #207 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 11:25 AM
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Thanl you for suppling the retroreflecting gain curves on the highpower Da-lite. I am going to a 2:35 screen which will be 49 by 115 inches from my 49 by 87 inch Stewart Firehawk. I have considered a curved screen but thought that a retro-reflective screen would be better for ambient light rejection. the reflective screen is fine but as you go to a wider viewing angle the light will reflect horizontally away from you and a curved screen become almost a necessity. the curved screen are not curved enough to direct the normal of the screen surface toward the center of your seating position.

I have my screen in th eliving room and most of the ambient light is coming from the side windows. the projector sits two feet above my head and I am 14ft from the screen. this gives me a 10 degree viewing angle.

thanks again
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post #208 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imageek2 View Post

How far back from the screen is your seating. We can calculate the gain with that and the distance between your eyes and the projector.

Imageek2, thanks for responding. My seating position is 14 feet from the screen.

Milit
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post #209 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Milit: I have almost a similar setup I was impressed with how much gain you get, but my PJ is about my head about 3-4 feet, and my projector does also project down, and I notice when I stand up the sample piece got much brighter, so I have some concerns about ordering this screen and will look into some other options before I decide.

Garman, I noticed the increased in brightness when I stand up too. However, the sample was still noticeably brighter thant my present screen (goo paint) and all the other samples I had up. It was also clear that colors were much more vibrant on the HP. Dark scenes did seem a bit washed out though, but I don't know if that is attributable to the size of the sample as compared to the background surface. I hope I have made the right choice. BTW, what other screens are you considering?
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post #210 of 3787 Old 01-09-2007, 04:31 PM
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Those of you who got samples, how fast did you get them after requesting them from Da-lite. I want to get my screen ordered, but need to wait for the sample to be sure it is the right thing to do.

Phil
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