How big can you go before being to big? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-22-2007, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Iamb working on tyring to design a Theater in my basement and was going to go with a 110 inch screen. However Iamb cconcernedIt might be to big for the first row of seats. The first row will sit approx. 9 feet back and the second will be 16 feet. The room is 19 feet deep however I had to eat up a couple of that for the front cabinet holding the spks and screen.

Iamb just a little concerned It might be to big? Primarily I will be watching TV (HD) and movies.

Thanks
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-22-2007, 06:22 PM
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depends on your PJ. if you have a low lumen unit, then you will have a horrible image if you go too big. if you have a light cannon and a good gain screen, you can go 200" if you want. it all depends.

but for your room size, 110" should be perfect. in fact, for that first row, it might be a little too big. but i guess that's why you have two rows. the first row will be reserved for the people that like an unnecessarily large screen (i could handle it, i'd have a headache in 5 minutes). the second row will be for the weak and infirm, like me... and probably a lot of your guests.
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post #3 of 22 Old 01-23-2007, 04:23 AM
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Ideally every seat in the house should be a good one. With a 16:9 screen the width is the controlling dimension being the wider dimension it will cut into our peripheral vision before the height. Personally I would rather have the second row watching a slightly small image and the front row be perfect. And when viewing alone will you want to sit in the second row. In my case 90% of the usage of the screen is by one, two or three people and we all grab the best seats for that. Then there is the movie nights / sports events when I don't have enough seats and I'm adding a few folding chairs in the wings. For those times everyone just can't have the perfect seat.

The bottom line on what is the best screen size depends on first your projector, in terms of being bright enough to fill the screen with bright light in your setting and also the resolution of the projector. You don't want to see screen door. Then there is the issue of when you are so close your eyes have to move around non stop to catch the picture. Some people don't like that.

My recommendation is try and work out the projector you think you want based on how big your best guess is to screen size and then hold off on the screen until you have had time to experiment. I started with a tacked up bed sheet and found I wanted to go much BIGGER than I first thought I would. I'm very glad I waited. My friend took the other approach and when he comes over now I always hear he wishes he would have went bigger on the screen.


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post #4 of 22 Old 01-23-2007, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Great replies, I'm most likely going with the JVC RS-1 Projector and I do have complete light control in the room however I will have rope lighting around the soffit and some sconces.

My concern was for the first row of seats however I think it will be fine. I went onto somebody's website and it shows that the preferred THX seating arrangement for the front row is ideal however I thought it still might be a little close and I'm sure I will be sitting in the back row.

Thanks
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-23-2007, 06:39 AM
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This such a though question and really a long lasting one if you are purchasing a high end screen. I have a 12' distance between my screen and seating area and was told to go with a 92" firehawk which I did. The picture is wonderful but I am now wishing I would have went with a larger screen, maybe 100" or even 106". So my advise would be to project on the wall at your desired size and see if your eyes are wondering around trying to keep up with the action. If your eyes get tired quickly then you probably need to down size a little. Good luck.

Mike
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-23-2007, 02:26 PM
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I'm at first row 13 feet on a 106 inch screen, and while it is very enjoyable I would not want it any bigger. Sometimes I go further back to the card table or lounge chairs for a break.

I run a Panny 900 in a mostly light controlled room, onto a Da-Lite Video Spectra 1.5 screen.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-23-2007, 04:21 PM
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I would say a 110" screen with only 9 feet from seating is a little big. But it might be fine for you.
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-23-2007, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

I started with a tacked up bed sheet and found I wanted to go much BIGGER than I first thought I would. I'm very glad I waited. My friend took the other approach and when he comes over now I always hear he wishes he would have went bigger on the screen.

So what size screen did you wind up getting, and from what viewing distance?
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

So what size screen did you wind up getting, and from what viewing distance?

Thumbnail you can click shows screen size. 72x96 or 120 in 4:3 mode



54x96 110 in 16:9 mode.



My seating distance is between 10 and 15 feet. Prime seats are at 14' IMO but others like to sit much closer. Projector is DLP XGA 1024x768 so my resolution in 16:9 mode is 1024x576. that's what is shown above from a regular DVD

This image is of regular SD TV off of my cable.



I was limited by the size of my rooms width and that was the major reason I went with a constant width setup. That and having 18 inches of vertical digital image shift is nice.


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post #10 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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My room is 19 feet 2 inches long and I'm changing how I'm going to do the front stage and probably will go with Inwalls within the Cabinet so I have more room.

One question I have is the Theater chairs, my chairs will be 35 inches deep and they have a 3 inch requirement for reclining but was curious as to what people allow for in terms of space between the chairs.

Do you allow for the additional 34-35 inches once reclined and than add 2 feet to that or just the measurement with the seat all the way up?

I do think 110's a little close for 9-10 feet but if I can squeeze a couple more feet out of it and move the seating back, I will be happy. I'm going with the JVC RS-1 projector so I'm not to concerned about that part of it and I will have a completely controlled lighting environment.

Thanks again for your comments and idea's



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post #11 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 07:32 AM
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Steven, A 110" diag 9x16 screen is 96" = 8ft wide. So if your eyeball distance to the screen is 10 ft, this is a 10/8 = 1.25 ratio, which is rather close, though there are many comments from persons who like it even closer. The most common figure I hear thrown around is a viewing distance of ~ 1.5 SW for a good 1080p picture.

But I would strongly recommend what several people have suggested here in the Forum: first get the pj and show it on the wall (or tacked-up bed sheet) for a week or so to get a feeling of what screen size you like with your pj and viewing distance. Then order the screen. This is what I'm going to be doing; and like you, I will be getting a RS1 as soon as they come out. I think I would like to get a 133" diag HP, viewing it from ~ 12.5 to 13 ft; this is 1.3 SW (I like it big!), so I might decide that this size is too large and come down a bit. But I'm going to start out with this as a possibility.

Also, you say your room is 19 ft long but can only manage a viewing distance of 9-10 ft; I don't understand. My room is only 17 ft long, and my eyeball to screen distance (with the recliners reclined) is ~ 12.5 ft, and my wife has hers at ~ 13.5 ft. Of course your room may have some arrangement that I'm not aware of that restricts the viewing distance.

Good luck, and let us hear what you do! Bill
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 08:10 AM
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The only bummer with High power at 133" is the next smaller size available is 119". I do not believe Da-lite makes a HP screen between size 119" and 133" for a fixed frame 16x9. Do they?

My HT seating is 13' first row and 18' second row. 133" might be to big but 119" is to small. Does one go with a different screen material and get a 126" or stay with HP at 133". I'm leaning towards the 133" HP.

My previous home had a 126" Carada at 13' and it was great. After a few months you get used to the screen size and I felt I could have went with a 133" at that time.

Troy
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

But I would strongly recommend what several people have suggested here in the Forum: first get the pj and show it on the wall (or tacked-up bed sheet) for a week or so to get a feeling of what screen size you like with your pj and viewing distance. Then order the screen. Bill

Steven these are vary WISE words indeed and it was just how I decided on a 110" screen for my room. I like you now have my front row at 9ft and my main viewing row at 16ft(this is where I set) I do give up this row for guests.... I have a PE7700 720P projector at 1100 lumens ect..........the picture quality is unbelievable at 16ft and probably 90% as good at 9ft it has just a little screen door on certain dark scenes....that have say 90% low light levels and a bright object maybe 10% of the screen...... you will see some vary slight sd (screen door)in the bright area.

Now this sd can be eliminated or lessons by a great degree....by fooling the (eyes iris) if you keep(in my theater) some key screen lights on, and bring up the house lights a little, this eliminates the slight sd my front row see's. I like a little room light with guest anyway, and it effects my screen vary little(if kept low) BUT MY ROOM LIGHTING WAS DESIGNED with this in mind.

It is possible to have a great picture at the close distance of 9 ft if YOU PLAN YOUR ROOM lighting WALL COLOR, CARPET COLOR and CONTROL ambient light reflection.

Hear is a few shots with 23 house light on........all 8 zones are on dimmers, my second row of seats was not in place yet, but the light level is the same on 2 of the darker shots ,their is a little more light in the back of the room, these different zones really helps in making this possible. The screen is a 110" diag bright white painted with an eggshell hardness finish(it has a slight sheen but does not hot spot. I could bring up the house lights more if I could talk the wife out of the white ceiling.....good luck on that one. The last shot was with flash showing the ceiling.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/PICT0032.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/PICT0038.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/88050192.jpg

Hope this help a little. Good Luck!!!!
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply. I might have made some errors in my distances. The room is 19.2 long and 22.5 wide at it's widest point. The wall where Im having the cabinet guys build the screen is 16 foot wide.

I'm using theater chairs which are 39.5 deep with only a 3 inch distance needed to recline and once reclined at takes up an additional 2 feet to extend the foot rest so I think I will have more room than originally thought. I'm leaving 3 feet as the walkway once the chair is in it's normal position. The cabinet will be built out to accommodate the speakers however the screen will be recessed back as to not take up to much space. I think the front row will end up being somewhere around 11-12 feet from the screen.

I thought the best viewing at first was going to be the back row however I'm not really sure now. As for waiting on what size screen to put up and purchasing the projector and displaying the image to see what one likes, it would extend the whole process another couple of months because of the cabinet delay and I would like to start the project sooner than later.

I will post some pictures once we start framing and doing all the other goodies. Should be fun and hopefully not to expensive.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Steven, A 110" diag 9x16 screen is 96" = 8ft wide. So if your eyeball distance to the screen is 10 ft, this is a 10/8 = 1.25 ratio, which is rather close, though there are many comments from persons who like it even closer. The most common figure I hear thrown around is a viewing distance of ~ 1.5 SW for a good 1080p picture.

But I would strongly recommend what several people have suggested here in the Forum: first get the pj and show it on the wall (or tacked-up bed sheet) for a week or so to get a feeling of what screen size you like with your pj and viewing distance. Then order the screen. This is what I'm going to be doing; and like you, I will be getting a RS1 as soon as they come out. I think I would like to get a 133" diag HP, viewing it from ~ 12.5 to 13 ft; this is 1.3 SW (I like it big!), so I might decide that this size is too large and come down a bit. But I'm going to start out with this as a possibility.

Also, you say your room is 19 ft long but can only manage a viewing distance of 9-10 ft; I don't understand. My room is only 17 ft long, and my eyeball to screen distance (with the recliners reclined) is ~ 12.5 ft, and my wife has hers at ~ 13.5 ft. Of course your room may have some arrangement that I'm not aware of that restricts the viewing distance.

Good luck, and let us hear what you do! Bill

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post #15 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Great job on your theater. Very tasteful and looks great. As soon as I have some time I'm going to take some pictures of the mess in the basement and have a starting point in which to gauge the start to finish project.

I'm still researching sound deadening, working with a cabinet guy to design the right look and cleaning the basement to start the project. It's amazing how much stuff (junk) one aquires over the years. Heck, we just moved in two years and I thougth we dropped off a lot stuff at Good Will. Oh well.

Thanks for your insight
Steve
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 05:53 PM
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Steven,

Viewing your projector on the wall and deciding on the best screen size that you like is always a good way to go.

That said, with 1080p projectors the old rule of 1.5 times the screen width for best viewing distance is no longer valid. That was for 720p projectors, and mainly set for eliminating or reducing SDE (screen door effect). You are only STARTING to see the benefits of 1080p at 1.5 screen widths, and many are recommending a 1.0 to 1.3 screen width seating distance for 1080p.
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checklst View Post

Steven these are vary WISE words indeed and it was just how I decided on a 110" screen for my room. I like you now have my front row at 9ft and my main viewing row at 16ft(this is where I set) I do give up this row for guests.... I have a PE7700 720P projector at 1100 lumens ect..........the picture quality is unbelievable at 16ft and probably 90% as good at 9ft it has just a little screen door on certain dark scenes....that have say 90% low light levels and a bright object maybe 10% of the screen...... you will see some vary slight sd (screen door)in the bright area.

Now this sd can be eliminated or lessons by a great degree....by fooling the (eyes iris) if you keep(in my theater) some key screen lights on, and bring up the house lights a little, this eliminates the slight sd my front row see's. I like a little room light with guest anyway, and it effects my screen vary little(if kept low) BUT MY ROOM LIGHTING WAS DESIGNED with this in mind.

It is possible to have a great picture at the close distance of 9 ft if YOU PLAN YOUR ROOM lighting WALL COLOR, CARPET COLOR and CONTROL ambient light reflection.

Hear is a few shots with 23 house light on........all 8 zones are on dimmers, my second row of seats was not in place yet, but the light level is the same on 2 of the darker shots ,their is a little more light in the back of the room, these different zones really helps in making this possible. The screen is a 110" diag bright white painted with an eggshell hardness finish(it has a slight sheen but does not hot spot. I could bring up the house lights more if I could talk the wife out of the white ceiling.....good luck on that one. The last shot was with flash showing the ceiling.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/PICT0032.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/PICT0038.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/88050192.jpg

Hope this help a little. Good Luck!!!!

I really like the looks of your HT! Would you mind sharing more details? It looks like your screen is on the wall with a build out around it. How far does it come out? Do you have speakers hidden in the front wall? What is the distance from the edge of the screen to the side wall? I am trying to get an idea of what mine will look like. I have 16.5ft width.

I also like your riser. What are the dimensions? Did you build it yourself and install the rope lighting?

Last question (maybe ) Do you have speakers in the rear wall?

THANKS!
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-24-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven View Post

Thanks for your reply. I might have made some errors in my distances. The room is 19.2 long and 22.5 wide at it's widest point. The wall where Im having the cabinet guys build the screen is 16 foot wide.

I'm using theater chairs which are 39.5 deep with only a 3 inch distance needed to recline and once reclined at takes up an additional 2 feet to extend the foot rest so I think I will have more room than originally thought. I'm leaving 3 feet as the walkway once the chair is in it's normal position. The cabinet will be built out to accommodate the speakers however the screen will be recessed back as to not take up to much space. I think the front row will end up being somewhere around 11-12 feet from the screen.

I thought the best viewing at first was going to be the back row however I'm not really sure now. As for waiting on what size screen to put up and purchasing the projector and displaying the image to see what one likes, it would extend the whole process another couple of months because of the cabinet delay and I would like to start the project sooner than later.

I will post some pictures once we start framing and doing all the other goodies. Should be fun and hopefully not to expensive.

Steve

I am in the planning stages as well on a 18 x 16.5 room. I am trying to keep my screen on the wall and then build the sides and front out some to accomodate my speakers, etc.. I have similiar thoughts on chairs with 3" clearanxce that will be very close to the back wall on a 10" riser that extends 6ft from the back wall putting my front row at ~11ft.

I took the advice here and ordered my projector now to find the right screen size first before I go any farther. I'd like to hear your thoughts on design and can share mine as well. I did start a thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=791905
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-25-2007, 09:00 AM
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Thanks for the comments guy's. My room is 13'8"x24' the ceiling is 8 1/2' it was a 7 ft drop ceiling before the remodel. My screen is 110 diag paint Bright white (eggshell)hardness, the center speaker sits on the 24" high stage the screen is 33" off the floor. The screen drops into a screen pocket 10" deep in the wall(this was done to control ambient light reflection) The bulk heads above the screen are 15" wide this gives a 25" bulk head over the screen and is painted the rooms dark burgundy(this helps control light reflected light off the screen itself) what light that does make it to the white ceiling is being asorbed by the dark wall,carpet,curtains and dark chairs.

Seating head distance from screen 9' and 14' (just measured) with 3ft between rows. The platform is 10" high and sets off the floor on 2x6 runners the rope lights are under the platform,it's a 2x6 on 16" centers 1/2 ply to with pink wall insulation in the joist. It has a oak around the outside . Since if rest on/above the carpet it slides for adjustments(not real easy mine you) it weight a few hundred pounds and is vary quite when stepped on.

Lighting 9 zones still need to compete the last zone, I use dimmers on all zones and used non glare glass on the posters(must keep reflections under control. Also all lights have colored shades/thick milk glass or moveable eye balls to direct it by from the screen. Colored glass/light is a great way to add some light to a room (for a cozy feeling) and has a much smaller effect on the screen than white ambient light.

Three biggest factors(I feel) that effect picture quality the most, in a front projection system are ROOM COLOR .....ROOM DESIGN....and how both these effect AMBIENT LIGHT.

Most people think the quality of the picture comes from what BRAND pj DLP/LCd or Players,cables screen ect..............and yes they all have an effect on picture quality but it is small % in comparison to the above 3 rules.

I personally think the key to picture quality is work the whole room around the screen design(not the color or type of screen that helps some also)but how to drop the screen out of the room. I used the wall pocket trick, behind stage curtains is slightly better(if done right) and dropping the screen back into a whole cabinet wall unit is another. I saw this little trick at my local HT professional store and it was beautiful the screen was 18" back from the from of the oak cabinets,they had lights inside the glass doors and can lights above the seating area with narrowed focused spot bulbs aimed straight down, their room had twice the light I use and still had the same bright picture.

The only down side to cabinets they cost more than my whole room and that includes the equipment!!!!!!!!!

If I ever do it again I will drop my next screen 18" behind stage curtains, with a curtain baffle in the middle, of course the depth of drop depends on the seating angle.

Good Luck and keep asking question this site is great place for learning info of design, I learned a lot out hear (seriously)......well ok 10 years as a new home contractor,and 30 years of remodel experience helped some to. Last I did all the Labor in my room except for the dry wall mudding(I hate to Mud) and the Mexican crew I hired did it so inexpensive I did not even argue the fact I had to finish sand for 20 hours to bring it up to my standards.

Enjoy the picts
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000481.jpg front sound system
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000484.jpg seating row space and platform
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/5d49b296.jpg Platform almost finished and curtains changed the screen to paint I screwed up the Poly Wall.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000489.jpg Grown up beverage center
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000497.jpg kids beverage center
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000495.jpg Wall posters on non glare glass

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000488.jpg DVD storage and a portrait of the wife after telling her she had no say in the mans room design, or color slection or Decorating.......sheeese that one was cost me negative bonus points for sure!!!!!
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post #20 of 22 Old 02-04-2007, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checklst View Post

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/P1000488.jpg DVD storage and a portrait of the wife after telling her she had no say in the mans room design, or color slection or Decorating.......sheeese that one was cost me negative bonus points for sure!!!!!

Love the wife portrait, cracked me up, thanks for the laugh!
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post #21 of 22 Old 02-07-2007, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

Steven,

Viewing your projector on the wall and deciding on the best screen size that you like is always a good way to go.

That said, with 1080p projectors the old rule of 1.5 times the screen width for best viewing distance is no longer valid. That was for 720p projectors, and mainly set for eliminating or reducing SDE (screen door effect). You are only STARTING to see the benefits of 1080p at 1.5 screen widths, and many are recommending a 1.0 to 1.3 screen width seating distance for 1080p.

I have read several places that the reason for the rule of 1.5 to 2.0 screen width to seating distance has to do with a "cone of vission" of about 30 degrees, and being able to easily see the entire screen without too much strain or having to move your eyes too much.
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post #22 of 22 Old 02-07-2007, 05:18 AM
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There are two reasons you want to limit how close you sit, SDE and your eyes field of vision. The newer projectors are making SDE a non-issue because almost everyone is reaching the limit of their field of vision first.

Then there is the personal preference of immersion. I know some people that really like the image going off into their peripheral vision. Some games or simulators are nice to be viewed in this mode. But I'm happiest around 1.5 the screen width.

At the distance I view from XGA resolution works fine for me no SDE issues at all. Going to something like 1080p for me might not change my viewing experience a whole lot.


Bud

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