***Official SmX Theater Solutions Screen Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Slightly more gain, by chance?

It was a color change and audio change. The first version had a slight color push but now the CineWeave HD is neutral. We improved the audio transparency as well.

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post #452 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 01:26 AM
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Love that theater Chirpie, very modern, and spaceship.


Ruben,
Were bringing fown the screen to stretch the material a bit more. That's what the bulge is

My Theater Showpiece Cinema
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post #453 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

Awesome theater Ryan. I see we both like the same color scheme

Unless it's a really bad shadow, it looks as if you didn't finish installing the screen material in the top left corner. Am I seeing things?

That's the visual cutoff from the eyeball fixture in the ceiling.
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post #454 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

That's the visual cutoff from the eyeball fixture in the ceiling.

Pepar is absolutely correct. I should've angled it a little more so it didn't have that sharp cutoff in the corner. I promise, there's material edge to edge. ^_^;
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post #455 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourlilbro View Post

Love that theater Chirpie, very modern, and spaceship.


Ruben,
Were bringing fown the screen to stretch the material a bit more. That's what the bulge is

Hi Farhan,

What I am seeing doesn't look like the material is not tight. It looks as if you have a shelf protruding from the bottom back side of the center of the screen. Maybe a speaker shelf because it is only in the bottom middle of the screen?

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post #456 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

Pepar is absolutely correct. I should've angled it a little more so it didn't have that sharp cutoff in the corner. I promise, there's material edge to edge. ^_^;

Thank goodness, I lost some serious sleep last night cause of it
I had a hard time trying to figure out where things went wrong

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post #457 of 1303 Old 04-07-2008, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

Thank goodness, I lost some serious sleep last night cause of it
I had a hard time trying to figure out where things went wrong

Ruben

You're on to something, though, with yourlilbro's. It's visible in the first two shots of the screen as well as the last shot with Downey on it.
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post #458 of 1303 Old 04-08-2008, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

Hi Farhan,

What I am seeing doesn't look like the material is not tight. It looks as if you have a shelf protruding from the bottom back side of the center of the screen. Maybe a speaker shelf because it is only in the bottom middle of the screen?

Ruben

Nope, it's the material.

I've checked.

My Theater Showpiece Cinema
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post #459 of 1303 Old 04-08-2008, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourlilbro View Post

Nope, it's the material.

I've checked.

Is it sagging slightly causing a distinct shadow?
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post #460 of 1303 Old 04-08-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourlilbro View Post

Nope, it's the material.

I've checked.

Hi Farhan,

I just looked over your dedicated theater thread and I saw these pictures and found the problem. You didn't use the center supports that are required to tension the screen. If you don't use them, the sag will keep coming back since it is a curved screen.






When you get your ProCurv screen, you get two center supports/wall brackets and one stabilizer bar. The stabilizer bar should of been used for when the screen surface was being installed and remain on the screen until you fastened the screen to the wall brackets/center supports.

In the SmX ProCurv Assembly Guide, if you go to page 5 and 6 you will see the stabilizer bar in use as the frame is being assembled. Then if you go to page 25 and 26 you will see the wall brackets/center supports. Whether you are mounting your ProCurv to a wall or not, you need the support bars. Our ProLine flat fixed screens do not require support bars on screens up to 12 feet wide but the ProCurv does.

Once properly installed, the CineWeave HD screen surface will never sag because the strands in the weave are re-enforced with fiberglass.

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post #461 of 1303 Old 04-08-2008, 11:53 AM
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Farhan,

I also want to add something. If you install the supplied center supports on the ProCurv screen now as the way it stands, it may stretch the sag out of it without needing to retention the screen surface.

Ruben

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post #462 of 1303 Old 04-09-2008, 03:32 AM
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Hmm, I will check if I left that one out.

Thanks Ruben

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post #463 of 1303 Old 04-21-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

Sorry I missed this Shamus. The CineWeave HD was a newer version developed once the ProLine frame came out. So if you have a complete ProLine or ProCurv screen from us, you have the current CineWeave HD screen version. If you got raw screen material in the early DIY stages, it may be a slightly different screen.

We have some new big things in the works for new screen materials we will be announcing shortly.

Ruben

SandmanX,

Could you elaborate a little bit more on this... I am in the market for a new screen, but my HT wil not be finished till October. Will your new products be for sale at that time and what changes will be made if you can say?

Best, Insom
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post #464 of 1303 Old 04-21-2008, 08:01 PM
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Quick question for the SMX forum here. I am thinking of putting in a procurve screen AT of course and using a JVC RS2 in a light controlled environment (batcave actually) 2:40 CIH set up with anamorphic lens. Given all this - what do you think the largest screen (width wise) you could light up is - I could and would go as wide as 15 feet, but I fear that it would be way too dark - 10 feet would be okay. Seems like there is a big tradeoff between screen size and $. 10' and you are okay - 15' and you need an additional $30K to get a 3 chipper to light it up. Also a tradeoff between AT screen and a non AT screen. I love the idea off an AT screen with the speakers behind and the woven texture - but I hate the idea of sacrificing 5' of width. Might one just go with a high gain screen to get the width? Suggestions? Thanks.
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post #465 of 1303 Old 04-21-2008, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdemott View Post

Quick question for the SMX forum here. I am thinking of putting in a procurve screen AT of course and using a JVC RS2 in a light controlled environment (batcave actually) 2:40 CIH set up with anamorphic lens. Given all this - what do you think the largest screen (width wise) you could light up is - I could and would go as wide as 15 feet, but I fear that it would be way too dark - 10 feet would be okay. Seems like there is a big tradeoff between screen size and $. 10' and you are okay - 15' and you need an additional $30K to get a 3 chipper to light it up. Also a tradeoff between AT screen and a non AT screen. I love the idea off an AT screen with the speakers behind and the woven texture - but I hate the idea of sacrificing 5' of width. Might one just go with a high gain screen to get the width? Suggestions? Thanks.

I'd say you have a pretty good handle on the issues and tradeoffs. I had the exact same decision to makeexcept 12' vs. 10', so not so big a difference. But I went with the 10' SMX anyway and am really happy I did. I really like all the speakers hidden. It also allows you to use a center speaker exactly like the L and R. I'm using an RS1 which is adequate on a 10' 16:9 so I think you'd be fine with the slightly less bright RS2 with an anamorphic lens on a 10' wide setup. But, you're right... horsepower for a 15' 1.1 gain screen is expensive!
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post #466 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 12:35 AM
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I believe your screen should be a one time permanent purchase. So you shouldn't base your screen size off the current projector that is "hot" now. There are brighter, higher contrast projectors coming out frequently and to base your screen size decision off the light output/contrast of a projector you are limited to today may not be the best move.

I think it is best to look at the room and figure out what screen size you are going to be happy with for the long term. Once you make that decision, look at a projector that will fill the bill (even if it's temporary).

When I built my personal home theater, at first I had a flat 120" wide 1.78:1 aspect ratio screen with an Optoma HD-79 projector. Within a week, I decided the screen was too small and it looked not so impressive in my room and it really bothered me. So I bumped it up to a 12' wide ProCurv 2.40:1 AR screen and have been happy ever since.

The only downside with that projector was that I had to change my bulb every 500 hours but when it came down to it, I was paying .27 an hour for my bulb (or .50 to watch a movie). I also ran that PJ in high lamp mode which gave me a great vibrant image in a light controlled room on that size screen. As of recently, my current temporary PJ is an Infocus SP-777 3 chip DLP. As I try out other projectors I may opt for something else.

If you are buying an inexpensive disposable screen, then you will probably be fine with a temporary screen size and PJ combo. But if you are buying a more expensive masking screen or curved screen, then it would probably be best to do it once.

You can easily sell and ship a used projector when it is time to upgrade, but trying to sell and ship a big screen may prove difficult.

Ruben

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post #467 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 07:11 AM
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Thanks for the commentary. These are high quality problems to have to solve. Ruben, thanks for your perspective - The physical size of the room isn't going to change once I pour the concrete (building from scratch) and put in all the speakers and seats - so this is probably a case where bigger is better as I want a real imersive movie experience. So given that I could probably get a 15' 2:4 screen in there and I really would like to use an AT screen - the question is what gain will be on the screen - and then what pj can light it up adequately.
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post #468 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 09:24 AM
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hdemott

wow 15' is a big scope screen.
how far is your main seating area?
im sitting 14ft away from a 140" smx scope and as enveloping as that is, any bigger my head would turning side to side.
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post #469 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 01:00 PM
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If I go 15' wide - then I'm thinking 11' for the first row (definitely at the limit of what could be done - but my kids like sitting in the front row) and 17' for the second row - with some stools behind that. Each of those rows could shift back 2-3' as necessary if I get rid of the stools. Also figure that maxing out on the scope distance would allow me to sit in the first row for 16:9 sports etc...
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post #470 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

I believe your screen should be a one time permanent purchase. So you shouldn't base your screen size off the current projector that is "hot" now. There are brighter, higher contrast projectors coming out frequently and to base your screen size decision off the light output/contrast of a projector you are limited to today may not be the best move.

I think it is best to look at the room and figure out what screen size you are going to be happy with for the long term. Once you make that decision, look at a projector that will fill the bill (even if it's temporary).

When I built my personal home theater, at first I had a flat 120" wide 1.78:1 aspect ratio screen with an Optoma HD-79 projector. Within a week, I decided the screen was too small and it looked not so impressive in my room and it really bothered me. So I bumped it up to a 12' wide ProCurv 2.40:1 AR screen and have been happy ever since.

The only downside with that projector was that I had to change my bulb every 500 hours but when it came down to it, I was paying .27 an hour for my bulb (or .50 to watch a movie). I also ran that PJ in high lamp mode which gave me a great vibrant image in a light controlled room on that size screen. As of recently, my current temporary PJ is an Infocus SP-777 3 chip DLP. As I try out other projectors I may opt for something else.

If you are buying an inexpensive disposable screen, then you will probably be fine with a temporary screen size and PJ combo. But if you are buying a more expensive masking screen or curved screen, then it would probably be best to do it once.

You can easily sell and ship a used projector when it is time to upgrade, but trying to sell and ship a big screen may prove difficult.

Ruben

Ruben,

Great advice on the screen AND the projector, and it's refreshing to hear someone else say it. I can never figure out how some people will pay mega-bucks for the latest & greatest projector, and then try to milk the last drop of light out of their bulbs. It's like buying a Ferrari and worrying about the gas mileage you're getting. Sure, I want my bulb to last awhile, but compared to my whole HT investment a new bulb every year or two isn't that much.
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post #471 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 06:41 PM
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Agreed. Very smart advice. 1 other question:

I've heard from one dealer that AT screens reduce the picture quality because of the micro perforations and the tradeoff when using an AT screen is between a better picture that could be achieved with a flat screen and the sound you can achieve by having all the tweeters at the same level and not having to do EQ and losing less sound out through the screen. Any feelings or comments on this?
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post #472 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdemott View Post

Agreed. Very smart advice. 1 other question:

I've heard from one dealer that AT screens reduce the picture quality because of the micro perforations and the tradeoff when using an AT screen is between a better picture that could be achieved with a flat screen and the sound you can achieve by having all the tweeters at the same level and not having to do EQ and losing less sound out through the screen. Any feelings or comments on this?

I think this is one area that SMX has a great reputation for... especially for the cost. There may be a slight compromise but I believe it is only very slight. I've never heard anyone on these forums complain about the picture thrown on an SMX unless it's moire' patterns because they didn't slant the weave of the material.

I have no complaints, but then the only non-AT screen I've seen is a Da-Lite gray. This is superior to that. From what I've read the Da-Lite Hi-Power may give better results if your setup is HP friendly.
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post #473 of 1303 Old 04-22-2008, 10:12 PM
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For audio I have an Anthem D1, P5 amp, and Studio 100 v3 mains, and a Denon 3910. Video is a Infocus 777 with a Panamorph U380 for scope viewing. Not the best but nice enough for me.

I have an SMX screen on a "hinge" so that I can flip it up and out of the way. Allowed me to preserve access to a storage room and so moved my max screen size from 113 width to 130. So I can in less than 60 seconds swing the screen out of the speaker path.

I will be the first to admit I do not have a "golden" ear, mine are 48 year old which says enough, but I digress. I don't hear any difference between with and without the screen in front of the speakers. I have listened to probably 100 plus hours of new and familiar content and never once thought that something did not sound the way it used to. I said it that way on purpose, I have had these speakers for several years in the same room. My setup may not sound "right" in the studio way, but the SMX did not make it sound different, which is the way it is supposed to work.

Moving from a blackout cloth screen to the SMX did not magically improve the immage, but it certainly did not hurt it. No faults found there.

On the other hand moving the speakers from beside and below a 130x55 screen to behind it significantly improved the experience. Highly recommended.

I also endorse getting a screen that will last thru multiple PJ's, it is significant enough of an expense that unless you are trying to "fix" a PJ problem (needing a gain or grey screen for example) getting what you really want the first time makes sense. A big reason I went with the 777 PJ is that it did not have any problems other than being 720 to compensate for.
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post #474 of 1303 Old 04-23-2008, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdemott View Post

Thanks for the commentary. These are high quality problems to have to solve. Ruben, thanks for your perspective - The physical size of the room isn't going to change once I pour the concrete (building from scratch) and put in all the speakers and seats - so this is probably a case where bigger is better as I want a real imersive movie experience. So given that I could probably get a 15' 2:4 screen in there and I really would like to use an AT screen - the question is what gain will be on the screen - and then what pj can light it up adequately.

The CineWeave HD is 1.16 in gain. What is your projector budget? How much are you set on 1080? You can probably get a temporary 720 projector to hold you over until things settle down depending on your PJ budget.

A 15' curved screen is really immersive. We shipped a 15' wide ProMask-Curv last week for a customer that is going to be using a Christie Digital CP2000 projector with it. See the pictures below during the ProMask factory calibration process (screen surface was not installed yet)...





Ruben

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post #475 of 1303 Old 04-23-2008, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdemott View Post

If I go 15' wide - then I'm thinking 11' for the first row (definitely at the limit of what could be done - but my kids like sitting in the front row) and 17' for the second row - with some stools behind that. Each of those rows could shift back 2-3' as necessary if I get rid of the stools. Also figure that maxing out on the scope distance would allow me to sit in the first row for 16:9 sports etc...

A common practice with scope screens is to be at least 2 screen heights away from seating which is 12.5' from the 15' wide 2.40 screen. So your first row will be a little under and your second row will be fine according to this practice. Your 16:9 image will be 133" wide x 75" tall.

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post #476 of 1303 Old 04-23-2008, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniahead View Post

SandmanX,

Could you elaborate a little bit more on this... I am in the market for a new screen, but my HT wil not be finished till October. Will your new products be for sale at that time and what changes will be made if you can say?

Best, Insom

Yes, they should be ready before that. As soon as we have some updates, we will announce them here.

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post #477 of 1303 Old 04-23-2008, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdemott View Post

Agreed. Very smart advice. 1 other question:

I've heard from one dealer that AT screens reduce the picture quality because of the micro perforations and the tradeoff when using an AT screen is between a better picture that could be achieved with a flat screen and the sound you can achieve by having all the tweeters at the same level and not having to do EQ and losing less sound out through the screen. Any feelings or comments on this?

All tweeters at the same level, but not at the horizontal centerline of the screen doesn't put the soundtrack on the screen nor the dialog in the actors' mouths. To me, that is a compromise. To whatever extent my PQ is reduced, I do not notice it. But I do notice "dislocated" sound and dialog on every other system I experience that does not have an AT screen. With regards to EQ, my pre/pro has Audyssey, as do a lot of new AVRs, and that has truly made a huge difference in my sound. There is zero timbre change in a sound that starts on screen and travels to the side and/or rear of the room.

Just my $.02.
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post #478 of 1303 Old 04-23-2008, 08:34 AM
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Thanks for the pictures. That screen looks awesome. I have some play in seating - so I can go back a foot on both rows to deal with the screen size. I'd like to use a Christie 2000 as well with that large screen, but I think that one would get me divorced. (Either that or I have to find a great deal on one). Obviously would like the best picture I can get - but I'm finding it difficult to make the jump from the $10K projector that could light up a screen this size and the higher Lumen 3 chipper's cos to light it up - thus the question on masking size on the sides (i.e. could I get a big screen currently - and use a smaller pj for now) Not wedded to 1080 necessarily - but it would certainly be nice given that I will likely be using a bd as the primary source - along with Directv HD. BY the time I get around to installing this thing it will be well into the summer or the fall., will your new material be muc different than your current stuff?
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post #479 of 1303 Old 04-23-2008, 08:15 PM
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Ruben,

Do you plan on having a high power gain screen in the works soon?
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post #480 of 1303 Old 04-24-2008, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdemott View Post

Thanks for the pictures. That screen looks awesome. I have some play in seating - so I can go back a foot on both rows to deal with the screen size. I'd like to use a Christie 2000 as well with that large screen, but I think that one would get me divorced. (Either that or I have to find a great deal on one). Obviously would like the best picture I can get - but I'm finding it difficult to make the jump from the $10K projector that could light up a screen this size and the higher Lumen 3 chipper's cos to light it up - thus the question on masking size on the sides (i.e. could I get a big screen currently - and use a smaller pj for now) Not wedded to 1080 necessarily - but it would certainly be nice given that I will likely be using a bd as the primary source - along with Directv HD. BY the time I get around to installing this thing it will be well into the summer or the fall., will your new material be muc different than your current stuff?

If you are in a 100% light controlled room, look at a used or new Infocus SP777 as a temporary PJ. It is a 720 3 chip DLP with good light output for under $8k. Maybe even a Sim2 C3X 720 will work but they are not as bright as the 777.

Ruben

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