The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2726 Old 11-20-2008, 12:41 PM
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Why do I keep reading this thread and wanting to upgrade my 4-month-old screen? ;-)
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post #272 of 2726 Old 12-08-2008, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Here's some specs on how the new XD material compares in this respect:

Perfed vinyl: ~49 holes / sq.in.
Microperfed vinyl: ~200 holes / sq.in.
Woven 2x2 pattern (e.g. Center Stage and others are nearly identical): ~500 holes / sq.in.
Center Stage XD: 1,500+ holes / sq.in.

I'll get more comprehensive with the specs and benefits soon, but the applications centered in the cross hairs are:
- Those rare cases where a projector/size combo doesn't look perfect
- Seats are pushing the minimum seating distance, say in the 8-10' range
- Need to handle higher pixel counts (4k) on smaller screens
- Less costly, easier, DIY with higher performance

Cheers,
Chris


Chris....do you have the additional specs and benefits of the new screen material yet? Are you still looking at an ETA around Christmas?

Can you tell I'm a little anxious

Ron
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post #273 of 2726 Old 12-15-2008, 05:15 PM
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Im curious about the cost. I see you have a sale on the original center stage material. Im going for a Panny 3000, so Im wondering if I should just pick up the original materail at the sale price without having to rotate it.
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post #274 of 2726 Old 12-15-2008, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skid_68 View Post

Im curious about the cost. I see you have a sale on the original center stage material. Im going for a Panny 3000, so Im wondering if I should just pick up the original materail at the sale price without having to rotate it.

Hi Skid -

Can't discuss cost here, but the new XD material will be similar for the near future. Panasonic 1080p projectors almost never benefit from any tilting, so they are uniquely able to get by with little to no scrap. They just don't have discernible pixel structure enough to artifact. If you're doing more video than computer text, they are what I prefer to watch. I enjoy my 2000u much more than my very expensive Marantz VP-11s1.

Regarding additional specs and information, we are currently sending out XD samples and putting together the info as quickly as we can, although customer needs come first. So contact us for samples if you need.

Generally speaking what I can say is that it looks better and sounds better, but isn't reducing moire sensitivity enough. If you have a Panasonic 1080p or wide 2.35 screen (>120" wide), then you don't really have to worry and the 63" material will work great. Unfortunately we don't have it in the larger size to accommodate tilting yet. Getting the 98" XD batch looks to be delayed for a few months for another screen project that needs attention, but hopefully I can squeeze that in sooner.

The retractables will continue using the standard Center Stage screen, so we can continue doing the 15 tilt using the 98" wide material.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #275 of 2726 Old 12-15-2008, 11:48 PM
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Thanks for the update, and the replay to my PM Chris.


Does the new XD material have the same gain as the previous Center Stage material?
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post #276 of 2726 Old 12-16-2008, 06:10 PM
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Since Seymour doesn't yet offer a ceiling trim kit, has anyone mounted one in-ceiling? Do you have details or pictures?

Many thanks. I will have to develop an in-ceiling installation to produce an acceptable Acceptance Factor...
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post #277 of 2726 Old 12-17-2008, 07:58 AM
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Chris, will the XD material be available in 98" width within the next 6 months? My application calls for larger than 63" height, and just curious how long I may be waiting. Sorry if posted already....I read many pages and didn't see it.

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post #278 of 2726 Old 12-18-2008, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Chris, will the XD material be available in 98" width within the next 6 months? My application calls for larger than 63" height, and just curious how long I may be waiting. Sorry if posted already....I read many pages and didn't see it.

I emailed Chris directly with a similar question and his response was a possible spring (April?) arrival of the 98" XD material.
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post #279 of 2726 Old 12-18-2008, 06:53 AM
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Thanks. I'll wait for sure.

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post #280 of 2726 Old 12-18-2008, 07:42 AM
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I'm disappointed to hear that the XD material doesn't resolve the moire issue (enough). I have a Mitsubishi HC4900 and I found the performance on the sample of standard material to be on the edge of acceptable, even with the 15 degree tilt. Do you feel that the XD will be good enough once the 15 degree tilt is an option?
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post #281 of 2726 Old 12-18-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcharkowski View Post

I'm disappointed to hear that the XD material doesn't resolve the moire issue (enough). I have a Mitsubishi HC4900 and I found the performance on the sample of standard material to be on the edge of acceptable, even with the 15 degree tilt. Do you feel that the XD will be good enough once the 15 degree tilt is an option?

Order up a sample of XD and give it a try, if the regular CS was borderline acceptable to you the XD should be an improvement . But trying it for yourself would be the only way to know for sure.
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post #282 of 2726 Old 12-18-2008, 07:29 PM
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I thought I'd put up a few comments since I am probably one of the first to get the Center Stage XD. My home theater is somewhat of a kludge but I would like to re-emphasise what has been said before in that Chris was extremely helpful in getting me set up. I just ordered material which is why I got it so quickly. I am going from Dazian and the change is amazing. I am using an ancient Epson powerlite 720c and when I recently got a blu ray player the Epson with the Dazian was almost unwatchable. With Center Stage I still don't have much detail in dark scenes (the Epson only has a 400:1 contrast ratio) but in most situations the picture is fantastic. I have no moire and acoustic transparency is great.

The fabric is heavier than I expected and it has a pretty strong vinyl smell. My screen is about 110 wide and I have it fastened with velcro on each side. As Chris warned me I am getting some sagging in the middle so I am trying to figure out away to get some tension across the top.

So far I'm a happy camper

Tom
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post #283 of 2726 Old 12-18-2008, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendo70433 View Post

Since Seymour doesn't yet offer a ceiling trim kit, has anyone mounted one in-ceiling? Do you have details or pictures?

Many thanks. I will have to develop an in-ceiling installation to produce an acceptable Acceptance Factor...

Kendo, I don't have one yet, but I do have a plan to handle the situation and would be glad to share with you. I have a suspended ceiling and the case (or no-case since it isn't necessary) will be above the ceiling in the joist bay. Let me know and I can go into detail.
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post #284 of 2726 Old 12-19-2008, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendo70433 View Post

Since Seymour doesn't yet offer a ceiling trim kit, has anyone mounted one in-ceiling? Do you have details or pictures?

Many thanks. I will have to develop an in-ceiling installation to produce an acceptable Acceptance Factor...

My Center Stage screen is installed into the ceiling. Installation is pretty simple, as long as the ceiling is open and prewired to attach the power to the Center Stage. Depending on how high your ceiling is, make sure to get adequate screen drop/material from Chris. I have a particularly 'special' install, which required Chris to pull out the stops and come up with a solution......... which he promptly did! All I can say is that I highly recommend the Center Stage screen and Chris at Seymour!
Unfortunately, I took no work in progress pictures, but I will post some pics over Xmas if you'd like
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post #285 of 2726 Old 12-19-2008, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcharkowski View Post

I'm disappointed to hear that the XD material doesn't resolve the moire issue (enough). I have a Mitsubishi HC4900 and I found the performance on the sample of standard material to be on the edge of acceptable, even with the 15 degree tilt. Do you feel that the XD will be good enough once the 15 degree tilt is an option?

I received a sample of the standard material from a fellow AVSer before I decided to forgo the DIY and just get a CenterStage retractable from Chris. At the time I was QC'ing it with an Epson 1080UB and found that the required tilt to eliminate all moire was closer to 30-35 degrees. I never measured, this was just eying it. Inspecting the pixel structure up close it was very evident how much space between pixels there was which I believe made the moire problem worse. In the end I couldn't get an acceptable 1080UB and decided on an RS1x and with its much more tightly spaced pixels I don't really require any tilt at all. That said, I'm still planning to wait until some more reports come in about the performance of the XD material before deciding to upgrade from the std material.

I think the bottom line is that the pixel structure of the projector (and also distance/size) is the primary factor in moire and I applaud Chris for being so proactive to send out samples and help people with this issue!

BTW, I would love to have been able to do an "in-ceiling" installation but alas my ceiling joists run perpendicular to the screen (although this did make exact distance placement a non-issue!)
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post #286 of 2726 Old 12-19-2008, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug G View Post

I received a sample of the standard material from a fellow AVSer before I decided to forgo the DIY and just get a CenterStage retractable from Chris. At the time I was QC'ing it with an Epson 1080UB and found that the required tilt to eliminate all moire was closer to 30-35 degrees. I never measured, this was just eying it. Inspecting the pixel structure up close it was very evident how much space between pixels there was which I believe made the moire problem worse. In the end I couldn't get an acceptable 1080UB and decided on an RS1x and with its much more tightly spaced pixels I don't really require any tilt at all. That said, I'm still planning to wait until some more reports come in about the performance of the XD material before deciding to upgrade from the std material.

I think the bottom line is that the pixel structure of the projector (and also distance/size) is the primary factor in moire and I applaud Chris for being so proactive to send out samples and help people with this issue!

I can corroborate that as this weekend I finally managed to ceiling mount my 1080 UB and was able to tilt it what looked like an angle of anwhere between 15 to 30 degrees clockwise when looking towards the screen and the moire disappeared.

Chris has been great about moving forward in rectifying this by the way. We're still talking about whether I should wait for the XD or whether I can just get the new cut of the same.

I'm also trying to determine whether Chris measures the 15 degree angle from the horizontal or vertical so that I can let fellow 1080 UB owners know whether to get an effective 0 degree or 45 degree cut to avoid the issues I'm having with moire.

That's on my 103" diagonal 16:9 for anyone interested.
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post #287 of 2726 Old 12-19-2008, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclem View Post

Kendo, I don't have one yet, but I do have a plan to handle the situation and would be glad to share with you. I have a suspended ceiling and the case (or no-case since it isn't necessary) will be above the ceiling in the joist bay. Let me know and I can go into detail.

jclem, Please go into as much detail as you want I am in the learning/designing phase and can use all the input I can get. One thing I wonder about is, with the no-case option, do you have any worries about dust or other crud from the joist bay? Did you make a dust shield of any kind to go over the screen? And how did you handle the slot the screen passes through the ceiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmytheSaint View Post

My Center Stage screen is installed into the ceiling. Installation is pretty simple, as long as the ceiling is open and prewired to attach the power to the Center Stage. Depending on how high your ceiling is, make sure to get adequate screen drop/material from Chris. I have a particularly 'special' install, which required Chris to pull out the stops and come up with a solution......... which he promptly did! All I can say is that I highly recommend the Center Stage screen and Chris at Seymour!
Unfortunately, I took no work in progress pictures, but I will post some pics over Xmas if you'd like

JtS, I have been emailing Chris about options. And I agree, he is great to work with. I will need about 30" of drop, so it's good to know I can get it. I hadn't brought that up with Chris yet. As I mentioned to jclem, I am interested in how you trimmed the ceiling slot. And if you have access to the ceiling space, how you mounted the screen. Did you go caseless, too? What are you doing for screen control? Have you found a way to tie it into a universal remote?

Thanks to you both for replying. It is good to have help and ideas from fellow HT builders.
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post #288 of 2726 Old 12-20-2008, 08:54 PM
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Maybe this is a really dumb question. To ceiling mount above my fireplace, I too need about 30" of drop to get the screen in the right vicinity. During my last WAF check, she indicated (in general terms) that it would be fine for the L and R speakers to be outside the screen, but they all had to be "close to the ceiling."

That puts the speaker either behind the projector case (heh), but assuming she lets me put it lower, it's behind the "drop" material. I read through all the pages of this thread before it occurred to me that this conversation is about the screen material, not the drop material. I've done a little searching and it seems the drop fabric is not generally specified.

The top of the hearth is at about 63" high, and with our couch seating putting our eyes at about 37", I think it would be pushing it (but maybe OK) to put the actual screen high enough to cover the speaker if I mount the speaker just above the hearth. (We're sitting roughly 11.5 feet back so I was thinking 85" wide[1]) Putting the speaker (a roughly 7" tall OMNISAT Micro) on the hearth doesn't bother me, and hopefully I can convince my project manager that it can go there if I say it HAS too

But that's my potentially really stupid question? What's the acoustic property of the Center Stage screens' drop material? Is it really bad, just like every other screen I might buy? Is it really good? It doesn't seem like everyone other one will be. Should I not even bother asking because I paid less for all 6 of my speakers than some people pay for one?

Never mind that this is my first proj and the last page of this thread is getting me worried about my delayed Epson HC6500...

Thanks for listening

[1] I was thinking Cinemascope but since the Epson 6500UB can't do that without a much of extra cost, maybe I will just go 1.78 ... Hopefully I will not talk myself into a slightly dimmer and less flexible (but otherwise probably excellent) Panny AX-3000 now because of its psuedo anamorphic feature... DOH!)
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post #289 of 2726 Old 12-21-2008, 05:51 PM
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I also need to mount a screen fairly high up and could use about a 30 or 36 inch drop so keep me posted. I have some of the Centerstage XD fabric and I love it but I think I'm going to go to a roll up at some point in the future

Tom
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post #290 of 2726 Old 12-21-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edan View Post

What's the acoustic property of the Center Stage screens' drop material?

Great question from edan. I have a similar situation with a fireplace hearth and I am seriously looking at a drop-down screen. The center channel will have to about 6.5 to 7.0 feet high. My layout will have sound transmission through the drop material.

Chris... any info?
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post #291 of 2726 Old 12-22-2008, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

Does the new XD material have the same gain as the previous Center Stage material?

The new XD material is barely higher gain. I'll be getting a final spec out soon.

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post #292 of 2726 Old 12-22-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edan View Post

But that's my potentially really stupid question? What's the acoustic property of the Center Stage screens' drop material? Is it really bad, just like every other screen I might buy? Is it really good?

As standard, the header material is not acoustically transparent much at all. It's purpose is to be thick and support the screen as rigidly as it's able to.

We have done AT windows in the header material - maybe JimmyTheSaint was one? If we know the dimensions you need, we cut a hole in the header material and stitch in the black backing AT material. It works quite well.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #293 of 2726 Old 12-22-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBrooke View Post

The fabric is heavier than I expected and it has a pretty strong vinyl smell. My screen is about 110 wide and I have it fastened with velcro on each side. As Chris warned me I am getting some sagging in the middle so I am trying to figure out away to get some tension across the top.

So far I'm a happy camper

Tom

TBrooke, I don't know if you resolved your issue yet? But, you can take a look at how I made my screen and see if you can use the spline method that I used. You may be able to incorporate it for the top and I would also do the bottom to even out the tension. Not sure how you have your material mounted but if it's on studs or frame you should be able to apply this method for a very minimal cost, probably about 10 bucks or so.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1073708

Also the strong vynil smell does dissipate in a couple of days try to keep the door to your room open.
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post #294 of 2726 Old 12-22-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

TBrooke, I don't know if you resolved your issue yet? But, you can take a look at how I made my screen and see if you can use the spline method that I used. You may be able to incorporate it for the top and I would also do the bottom to even out the tension. Not sure how you have your material mounted but if it's on studs or frame you should be able to apply this method for a very minimal cost, probably about 10 bucks or so.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1073708

Also the strong vynil smell does dissipate in a couple of days try to keep the door to your room open.

I looked at your thread great job. Do you feel the curverd screen was worth the trouble?
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post #295 of 2726 Old 12-22-2008, 11:48 AM
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100% well worth the effort. Since I'm using a DIY prism based lens I had some pincushion that would have needed to be overscanned off the screen. With the curve it corrects the pincushion, and I am able to just about perfectly fit the image to the screen. Building the screen frame was fairly easy as long as your patient with a jigsaw.
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post #296 of 2726 Old 12-22-2008, 06:01 PM
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I just ordered a seymour 97" screen. I am psyched. I did my research and it seems like this is the best option for me with my situation. I needed a screen allowed my sound to go through it and the other screens that were acoustically transparent were either a) SUPER $$$ or B) did not get great reviews (dalite etc) The cost of the Seymour screens is CRAZY. Almost to good to be true, but I called Chris and talked with him and got the impression that he is a stand up guy and true to his word. First impression with me is huge and he made a good one. Talked with me on the phone for 15 minutes and was a great explainer. I am going to attach it to the ceiling and attach the plug to an extension cord hidden in the wall. I am getting an Epson 6100 for x-mas and will be throwing the image from approx 14 ft. Anyone think that is too close?

Anyone have one of these screens and want to send some feedback or tips I would appreciate it.

Stagecoach Theater is DONE!
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post #297 of 2726 Old 12-23-2008, 07:19 AM
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14' seems to be an appropiate distance. Definately a good choice on the product, you'll be able to enjoy for a long time to come. Merry Christmas.
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post #298 of 2726 Old 12-23-2008, 07:39 AM
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Updates on when the new material will be available for purchase? I'm jonesing to replace my dazian screen!!
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post #299 of 2726 Old 12-23-2008, 08:15 AM
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A word to the wise on getting an Epson. I don't know if the 6100 is anything like the 1080 UB in pixel structure, but you'd best get a sample from Chris once you've got your projector and make sure the 15 degree tilt works for you. I only discovered this forum after purchase and I wish I had done so before as it would've educated me a lot on the interactions between so called perf'ed screens and the pixel structure on projectors which produce moire.

The great thing about Chris is that he's more than open to ensuring you're happy with your purchase but it'll save both you and him a lot of trouble if you make sure you have the appropriate angle sorted out before you order.

I'd trust Chris though on his opinions and if he's familiar with 6100s being fine with a standard tilt then you're good to go and Merry Christmas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by donatelloa View Post

I just ordered a seymour 97" screen. I am psyched. I did my research and it seems like this is the best option for me with my situation. I needed a screen allowed my sound to go through it and the other screens that were acoustically transparent were either a) SUPER $$$ or B) did not get great reviews (dalite etc) The cost of the Seymour screens is CRAZY. Almost to good to be true, but I called Chris and talked with him and got the impression that he is a stand up guy and true to his word. First impression with me is huge and he made a good one. Talked with me on the phone for 15 minutes and was a great explainer. I am going to attach it to the ceiling and attach the plug to an extension cord hidden in the wall. I am getting an Epson 6100 for x-mas and will be throwing the image from approx 14 ft. Anyone think that is too close?

Anyone have one of these screens and want to send some feedback or tips I would appreciate it.

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post #300 of 2726 Old 12-23-2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

As standard, the header material is not acoustically transparent much at all. It's purpose is to be thick and support the screen as rigidly as it's able to.

We have done AT windows in the header material - maybe JimmyTheSaint was one? If we know the dimensions you need, we cut a hole in the header material and stitch in the black backing AT material. It works quite well.

Thanks Chris! Of course, in retrospect it seems a little silly to use an AT screen if you don't have speakers behind in the screen But your offer to cut a hole in the header material and competitive pricing for electric screens might bring me back here anyway. I'm still waiting for my 6500UB so it will be a couple weeks before I figure out how much gain I really need. Then it sounds like I will need a sample to figure out how the pixel structure looks if no one else has first

Thanks again!
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