The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 108 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3211 of 3240 Old 04-29-2016, 07:39 PM
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any owners here have experience with the Center Stage UF material paired with a Sony 40es? I'm really torn between this and another material for my screen choice. The UF seems to be very color neutral while the other one seems to have "slightly" better blacks. Of course, judging from these tiny samples isn't easy either.

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post #3212 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 09:02 AM
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Hi all,

I just bought the center stage UF material, about 120" screen. I am getting alot of color bands, most obvious on a white background. See screenshot below. I assume this is due to tension in the fabric, or lack thereof. Any advice? It looks pretty bad, even more obvious in person.
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post #3213 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
any owners here have experience with the Center Stage UF material paired with a Sony 40es? I'm really torn between this and another material for my screen choice. The UF seems to be very color neutral while the other one seems to have "slightly" better blacks. Of course, judging from these tiny samples isn't easy either.
I've made the mistake in the past of choosing a screen material to correct for a failing in my projector and lived to regret. Get the most neutral screen you can, with the gain you need to achieve 15ftl with a bulb at 500 hours of use = the best combination I have found.

Chasing something like a slight edge in black level, while sacrificing color accuracy, brightness, acoustic transparency, or visible weave was never very satisfying to me. YMMV.

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Hi all,

I just bought the center stage UF material, about 120" screen. I am getting alot of color bands, most obvious on a white background. See screenshot below. I assume this is due to tension in the fabric, or lack thereof. Any advice? It looks pretty bad, even more obvious in person.
Hard to tell when I am looking at. Is this a projected gray image? Yes, I would NOT want to look at that, either!

If those are physical ripples in the screen, I would not call that banding, I would call that SAGGING and yes, tension is probably the culprit.

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post #3214 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Hard to tell when I am looking at. Is this a projected gray image? Yes, I would NOT want to look at that, either!

If those are physical ripples in the screen, I would not call that banding, I would call that SAGGING and yes, tension is probably the culprit.
It is a projected solid gray image. It isn't sagging, there is definitely tension. But yes it ends up looking like ripples in the material. I will take a picture when I get home from the side to show that its not sagging.
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post #3215 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 01:30 PM
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What kind of tensioning system does the screen use? Can you apply mor tension?

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post #3216 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
It is a projected solid gray image. It isn't sagging, there is definitely tension. But yes it ends up looking like ripples in the material. I will take a picture when I get home from the side to show that its not sagging.
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What kind of tensioning system does the screen use? Can you apply mor tension?
Looks like the tension is either going in the wrong way or wrong proportions (if there are physical waves) or the material is severely marred (if the screen is flat but still looks that way). But it's VERY HARD to tell from the photo.

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post #3217 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
Hi all,

I just bought the center stage UF material, about 120" screen. I am getting alot of color bands, most obvious on a white background. See screenshot below. I assume this is due to tension in the fabric, or lack thereof. Any advice? It looks pretty bad, even more obvious in person.
looks like moire to me. What projector and throw distance?
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post #3218 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 10:03 PM
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looks like moire to me. What projector and throw distance?


Good point. Need to remove the projector from the test and just look at it with room light.

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post #3219 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 10:08 PM
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Take a picture from the sides at a 30 degree or so angle. If you see ripples then you can conclude you need to apply more tension.
If you don't see any ripples, I would look into trying other test patterns, the equipment reproducing the patterns, and PJ setup.

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post #3220 of 3240 Old 05-02-2016, 10:46 PM
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Well guys, I finally got around at calibrating my 117" ambient visionaire 1.2 screen.
My PJ is a JVC 4810 with a bulb ~100hrs old.
I use a radiance XE and Chromapure with a i1 display 3 pro.
The results: pretty good. I am pretty happy with the outcome as they have exceeded my expectations.
It is the first time I calibrate an ALR screen, and I was afraid the grayscale and colors would have a significant push to blue and green. To the contrary, red is the one that gave me the biggest challenge; I believe it is mainly due to the JVC bulbs as they have a tendency to have inconsistent performance with red; in any case, nothing major to be honest; I am just being picky.
The gamma was easy to fix with the Radiance giving me even transitions in movie scenes where bright to dark typically show banding.
Overall, with random ambient light the screen does very well with bright material such as sports, video games, and animated films. Movies don't look as good but are watchable; I typically don't watch movies during the day, so no issues for me. At night, with dimmed lights or total darkness, the screen looks fantastic; I watched Gravity and the black space was very convincing; Gravity is not in 1:78 aspect ratio, so the black bars on the top and bottom were just about the same color as the black space which is all you can ask.
Images do pop and the colors are not extremely vivid but not dull either; they are close to looking at matte screen which is nice for a change; all those glossy screens look somewhat artificial to me.
It took me 2 years to find a screen for my multi-purpose family room. I was tired of looking around, but I guess I lucked out cause this screen works for me. I tested SI, Microlite, DnP, and Elite; all good screens, but the AV1.2 was a better fit for my room.
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post #3221 of 3240 Old 05-03-2016, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isisyodin View Post
Well guys, I finally got around at calibrating my 117" ambient visionaire 1.2 screen.

My PJ is a JVC 4810 with a bulb ~100hrs old.

I use a radiance XE and Chromapure with a i1 display 3 pro.

The results: pretty good. I am pretty happy with the outcome as they have exceeded my expectations.

It is the first time I calibrate an ALR screen, and I was afraid the grayscale and colors would have a significant push to blue and green. To the contrary, red is the one that gave me the biggest challenge; I believe it is mainly due to the JVC bulbs as they have a tendency to have inconsistent performance with red; in any case, nothing major to be honest; I am just being picky.

The gamma was easy to fix with the Radiance giving me even transitions in movie scenes where bright to dark typically show banding.

Overall, with random ambient light the screen does very well with bright material such as sports, video games, and animated films. Movies don't look as good but are watchable; I typically don't watch movies during the day, so no issues for me. At night, with dimmed lights or total darkness, the screen looks fantastic; I watched Gravity and the black space was very convincing; Gravity is not in 1:78 aspect ratio, so the black bars on the top and bottom were just about the same color as the black space which is all you can ask.

Images do pop and the colors are not extremely vivid but not dull either; they are close to looking at matte screen which is nice for a change; all those glossy screens look somewhat artificial to me.

It took me 2 years to find a screen for my multi-purpose family room. I was tired of looking around, but I guess I lucked out cause this screen works for me. I tested SI, Microlite, DnP, and Elite; all good screens, but the AV1.2 was a better fit for my room.


Thank you for the post. Chris sent me samples of the AV 1.2 screen and Matinee Black and I am going to test this with a RS400 soon. I have a similar setup with a multi purpose room. There very little information out there as to how this screen performs. This helps. In not familiar with calibration so I will use it without calibration for a while until I find one.
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post #3222 of 3240 Old 05-03-2016, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scherukat View Post
Thank you for the post. Chris sent me samples of the AV 1.2 screen and Matinee Black and I am going to test this with a RS400 soon. I have a similar setup with a multi purpose room. There very little information out there as to how this screen performs. This helps. In not familiar with calibration so I will use it without calibration for a while until I find one.
Samples are OK to judge the quality of the material and rule out screen materials that are either too dark or too bright; it will not give you a conclusive idea of the overall experience.
I was lucky to see the screen in person. What I recommend is find out with Chris if anyone in your area has the screen, so you can see it in person.
If you end up liking it, give Mike@AVS a call; he deals with Seymour and has very competitive prices.

On JVCs typically Cinema Standard is the most accurate profile out of the box. I also use low power light settings and the iris fully open. Don't use any of the screen material profiles (mine has none, A, B, C) as they tint the screen red. I went with 6500K and gamma 2.3.
Even if you don't plan to fully calibrate, adjust your contrast and brightness otherwise you will have your blacks and whites all over the place and you will not enjoy the screen. This post covers everything, but you can simply focus on contrast and brightness. http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322
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post #3223 of 3240 Old 05-03-2016, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by isisyodin View Post
Samples are OK to judge the quality of the material and rule out screen materials that are either too dark or too bright; it will not give you a conclusive idea of the overall experience.

I was lucky to see the screen in person. What I recommend is find out with Chris if anyone in your area has the screen, so you can see it in person.

If you end up liking it, give Mike@AVS a call; he deals with Seymour and has very competitive prices.



On JVCs typically Cinema Standard is the most accurate profile out of the box. I also use low power light settings and the iris fully open. Don't use any of the screen material profiles (mine has none, A, B, C) as they tint the screen red. I went with 6500K and gamma 2.3.

Even if you don't plan to fully calibrate, adjust your contrast and brightness otherwise you will have your blacks and whites all over the place and you will not enjoy the screen. This post covers everything, but you can simply focus on contrast and brightness. http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322


Thanks for the calibration link. It is very informative. Could you please let me know your throw distance from the 117 diagonal screen? Is it 16:9? I plan to get the scope 2.37 and wanted to get an idea of the throw distance to use with the JVC.
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post #3224 of 3240 Old 05-03-2016, 03:29 PM
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My JVC is about 15ft away. Screen aspect is 16x9. The projector can project a much bigger size btw.
If you go to the JVC website, you'll find a throw distance calculator or the users manual which have lookup tables with typical screen sizes.

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post #3225 of 3240 Old 05-04-2016, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
Hi all,

I just bought the center stage UF material, about 120" screen. I am getting alot of color bands, most obvious on a white background. See screenshot below. I assume this is due to tension in the fabric, or lack thereof. Any advice? It looks pretty bad, even more obvious in person.
The easiest test is to place a sheet of paper on it and see if the banding is still there or disappears. If it disappears, we'll want to replace that screen material with a higher-angle cut. The UF is very moire resistant but sometimes we have to trick it.

Cheers,
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post #3226 of 3240 Old 05-04-2016, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scherukat View Post
Thank you for the post. Chris sent me samples of the AV 1.2 screen and Matinee Black and I am going to test this with a RS400 soon. I have a similar setup with a multi purpose room. There very little information out there as to how this screen performs. This helps. In not familiar with calibration so I will use it without calibration for a while until I find one.
Here is some information:

Matinee Black
http://www.projectorcentral.com/ambi...-Matinee-Black

Ambient-Visionaire 1.2
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...SHcIPu4qSPE.97


http://www.avsforum.com/top-10-video...s-at-ces-2016/

Cheers,
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post #3227 of 3240 Old 05-04-2016, 07:53 PM
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Interesting thread. My friend just bought this screen also. Need him to come and take a look.
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post #3228 of 3240 Old 05-06-2016, 11:43 AM
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The easiest test is to place a sheet of paper on it and see if the banding is still there or disappears. If it disappears, we'll want to replace that screen material with a higher-angle cut. The UF is very moire resistant but sometimes we have to trick it.

Cheers,
Chris
Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for the replies! As usual you guys are enormously helpful.

The projector is an Epson 5020UB. It is 12 feet back or so, projecting onto an 120" screen.

Here is a 30 degree angle shot, with a piece of paper on it. The paper doesn't seem to moire :/

I tried increasing or decreasing the tension. It didn't seem to help any. I think you can see that the fabric is pretty darn flat in the picture, so I don't want to mess with it any more than I already have.
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post #3229 of 3240 Old 05-06-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for the replies! As usual you guys are enormously helpful.

The projector is an Epson 5020UB. It is 12 feet back or so, projecting onto an 120" screen.

Here is a 30 degree angle shot, with a piece of paper on it. The paper doesn't seem to moire :/

I tried increasing or decreasing the tension. It didn't seem to help any. I think you can see that the fabric is pretty darn flat in the picture, so I don't want to mess with it any more than I already have.
Wow! something is out of whack for sure. I am sure Chris will reach out to you soon. In the mean time, (not sure if it will help) but did you try flipping the screen material top to bottom? I am not familiar with your screen material, but is there any possibility the material may be on reversed? Some acoustically transparent materials are difficult to tell sometimes.

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post #3230 of 3240 Old 05-06-2016, 01:58 PM
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i followed the instructions and used the inside surface of the roll
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post #3231 of 3240 Old 05-06-2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
The easiest test is to place a sheet of paper on it and see if the banding is still there or disappears. If it disappears, we'll want to replace that screen material with a higher-angle cut. The UF is very moire resistant but sometimes we have to trick it.

Cheers,
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for the replies! As usual you guys are enormously helpful.

The projector is an Epson 5020UB. It is 12 feet back or so, projecting onto an 120" screen.

Here is a 30 degree angle shot, with a piece of paper on it. The paper doesn't seem to moire :/

I tried increasing or decreasing the tension. It didn't seem to help any. I think you can see that the fabric is pretty darn flat in the picture, so I don't want to mess with it any more than I already have.
Good photo.

And as Chris said above, that looks like something they will replace under warranty.

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post #3232 of 3240 Old 05-06-2016, 03:08 PM
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Good call on checking to use the inside/ smooth side of the roll.

Email Jon at jon.seymourav@gmail.com and give your screen stats so we can cut a replacement order. The older Epsons were especially prone to moire on a lot of surfaces because their panel alignment was less than perfect. (Side note: I displayed with Epson in 2008 and their projector moired on paper too. Panel alignment issues they said.) We can fit it for this combo, but I'm just pointing out that with better alignment and smoother digital panel structures, this is a disappearing issue these days.

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post #3233 of 3240 Old 05-08-2016, 04:55 PM
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Two questions.. When removing my screen material from the tube, we accidentally allowed it to bend in one spot. Now on the frame, it was a rippled area the size of one's fist every 8 - 12 inches. Anyway to remedy this? I don't have grommets; secured to frame using staples.


2nd question.. The bottom corner of my screen frame is beginning to warp outward. Anyone know of any tricks to fix?
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post #3234 of 3240 Old 05-08-2016, 05:13 PM
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Two questions.. When removing my screen material from the tube, we accidentally allowed it to bend in one spot. Now on the frame, it was a rippled area the size of one's fist every 8 - 12 inches. Anyway to remedy this? I don't have grommets; secured to frame using staples.


2nd question.. The bottom corner of my screen frame is beginning to warp outward. Anyone know of any tricks to fix?
I assume you are using a home made wooden frame. You don't mention what material you are using, but even if it has very little stretch I'm surprised you weren't able to pull it taught during the stapling process. Are you sure the problem is due to the folding or could it be uneven attachment to the frame?
As for the warping frame; that's why people pay big dollars for an engineered, heavy duty aluminum frame. I can think of two options to make a wooden screen lay flat. 1) Attach to a wall at all four corners. (French cleat the top and possibly use velcro nailed to a stud and stapled to the back of your frame out near the edge.) or 2) Attach a wooden box to the back of the frame. (1X4 would guarantee a flat surface, but even 1X2's should give enough stability in the 3rd dimension to make it lay flat.)
My wooden 1X4 frame tends to twist, even though it has two center supports, but I mount it top and bottom so have no problems.
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post #3235 of 3240 Old 05-09-2016, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Stridulent View Post
Two questions.. When removing my screen material from the tube, we accidentally allowed it to bend in one spot. Now on the frame, it was a rippled area the size of one's fist every 8 - 12 inches. Anyway to remedy this? I don't have grommets; secured to frame using staples.


2nd question.. The bottom corner of my screen frame is beginning to warp outward. Anyone know of any tricks to fix?
I'd trace the threads to where on each side of the frame they are stapled, remove the staples and pull extra hard in those zones, restapling when you like the result. You could lightly steam around the spot to make them more pliable, but without a grommet / o-ring trampoline system, don't go overboard with the steam since the staple method can only eat up so much.

David hit some techniques for pinning a wood frame to the wall.

Cheers,
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post #3236 of 3240 Old 05-09-2016, 07:55 AM
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I'd trace the threads to where on each side of the frame they are stapled, remove the staples and pull extra hard in those zones, restapling when you like the result. You could lightly steam around the spot to make them more pliable, but without a grommet / o-ring trampoline system, don't go overboard with the steam since the staple method can only eat up so much.

David hit some techniques for pinning a wood frame to the wall.

Cheers,
Chris
Thank you for the responses. I have tried the steam method then tightening the staples, which helped very slightly. The ripples are only apparent when a light is cast from the far left of the screen. I may just have to live with it. It is one of those things that only I would know about as I'm pretty sure no one would notice. However, I plan on attaching trim covered in velvet on top of the staples/frame, so I wanted to do my best to resolve the issue before doing that.

My frame is 8' wide framed with 1x4 pine. There are two 1x2 pine pieces vertically on the inner 1/3's. Securing the frame to the wall just be the best option. I was curious if maybe a small piece of 8' angle metal would help keep the bottom 1x4 straight (something like this).

Because I did use french cleats at the top, I think having the bottom off the wall an inch or so would actually help balance the distance that the frame is off at the top due to the cleats.
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post #3237 of 3240 Old 05-09-2016, 08:27 AM
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If there is curvature to your boards, then yeah - adding metal like that will straighten it. Jamestown uses a method like that, incorporating metal on the back of wooden frames.

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post #3238 of 3240 Old 05-31-2016, 09:15 AM
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You should check out May's AVS Home Theater of the Month, from Kevin Childs called "The Hodor Theater".

HT of the Month: The Hodor Theater

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Chris

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post #3239 of 3240 Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM
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Just about to mount my DIY UF screen material!

Can anyone tell me which side to face out? The viewing side?

It's somewhat softer on one side and a bit more well, defined on the other. Which side is the viewing surface?
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post #3240 of 3240 Old Today, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Just about to mount my DIY UF screen material!

Can anyone tell me which side to face out? The viewing side?

It's somewhat softer on one side and a bit more well, defined on the other. Which side is the viewing surface?
The inside surface of the roll is the viewing side. It's what is inspected for blemishes, and is the smooth side. The back side of the UK is a striped texture that should not be used.

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