The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 109 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3241 of 3265 Old 08-07-2016, 07:24 PM
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Just want to give a big shout out to Chris and his team for working with me to make thing right on a botched order - completely my fault!

I had been ordering so much fabric lately for my theater build, I accidentally ordered 4 feet of the XD from their website when I meant to order 4 yards. Even though they shipped and I received the 4 feet, they worked with me to get the 4 yards without simply double charging me.

Great bunch of guys to talk to and do business with. Recommend to anyone looking for a screen.
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post #3242 of 3265 Old 08-08-2016, 09:09 AM
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Here is a good video showing how an installation incorporated lights behind his Center Stage XD screen in order to get that IMAX reveal look. The key is maximizing the amount of light on the speakers, while minimizing the amount of light that hits the backside of the screen. When either side of the screen is lit, the screen becomes visually opaque.

His install is a great story in DIY skills and perseverance through difficult health. Definitely a future AVS HToM...
Youthman's Official Build Thread

Youthman's video on backlighting an XD screen. Also, check out those struts.

Cheers,
Chris
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post #3243 of 3265 Old 08-08-2016, 12:12 PM
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Thanks Chris. I'm 100% satisfied with the Seymour Center Stage XD fabric. It's extremely durable fabric (much more so than I even expected). Image is spectacular and speakers sound fantastic directly behind the screen. I was unsure if I would actually be able to see through the screen when the speakers were backlit. Originally the LED threw some light onto the back of the screen but I was able to place a piece of wood above the LED strip to prevent it from spilling onto the screen which helped a lot.
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post #3244 of 3265 Old 08-12-2016, 05:48 AM
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I finally mounted my Seymour screen last night. It was pretty strait forward and went without a hiccup. Even though UPS (or FedEx?) beat up the box pretty good everything was in good order. The frame assembly was very simple and the frame itself is more substantial than I would have thought. I installed the screen backing material too which was a nice surprise because I wasn't expecting it. It's the 3F120WS with EN4K material. Thanks to Chris and Mike Garett for all your help.

Before:


After:


My 8 month pregnant wife helped me lift this up and mount it. It wasn't heavy at all. The only problem is she really wants me to finish the theater asap.
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post #3245 of 3265 Old 09-08-2016, 03:58 PM
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[QUOTE=chriscmore;45409753Chris[/QUOTE]
Discussed
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post #3246 of 3265 Old 09-09-2016, 02:42 AM
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Make sure you have black behind every sample piece, otherwise it will not look as it will in a projection screen. Reflections from behind the material are unhelpful.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #3247 of 3265 Old 09-11-2016, 12:40 PM
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Missed this thread and posted these questions in an old thread, need to use my eyes and brain more!!!!


First I'm totally happy with my choice of an XD fabric 144inch wide 2.40 curved fixed screen that I bought a few years ago. I'd recommend Seymour, both their products and customer service, to anyone.

I have a couple of questions for Chris.

Is there a recommended "screen correction number" for the XD material for the JVC system of screen correction available in their higher end units? JVC do not list Seymour screen materials in their documentation.

I notice from the various graphs on the Seymour site that the high frequency attenuation appears to be a gentle roll off of about 3-4 dB from around 5KHz up to 20KHz, this versus the quoted "average reduction of 1.4dB above 2KHz". I'm asking for confirmation on this observation as I'm experimenting with my DSP units associated with my dipole LCR speakers to apply a correction to a flat response.
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post #3248 of 3265 Old 09-14-2016, 03:17 PM
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I just wanted to post as I will shortly be an owner of 3 metres of XD material. I was able to buy this unopened roll of material at a knock down price, so I plan to make my own 10' wide 2.40:1 screen with it. I've already downloaded the Seymour PDF on how to make a DIY screen, so I think I'll be good to go. The material has a 20 degree tilt to it.

I'll be using a JVC X500 with this screen. I measured 130 Lux at the (old) screen in low lamp and 160 Lux in high lamp (fully calibrated using an external Lumagen). I calculate this as 11fL and 13.3fL using 0.9 gain figure from the Accucal report I read.

I realise this is not as high as some would recommend (though my lamp is very stable at 400 hours, so I don't expect any major drop for a good while yet, based on my previous JVC X35 that used the same lamp type). Eventually I hope to get a brighter projector, but I think I should be OK for the time being.

I'll be sat between 12 and 14' away from this screen, so I should be good in terms of weave. Having said that, I've seen an XD at my dealer and found that I couldn't see the weave until I got very close to the screen.

I can't wait to start enjoying some AT goodness after 7 years of non AT with speakers in less than ideal locations. I'm losing a touch of gain (my old screen claimed 1.5, but I believe it was nearer 1.2), but I think the benefits will outweigh this since I used to close down the aperture anyway with my old screen to hit 12fL, so I'll be able to use high lamp and close the aperture a click or two and hit the same 12fL as before.

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post #3249 of 3265 Old 09-14-2016, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
I'll be sat between 12 and 14' away from this screen, so I should be good in terms of weave. Having said that, I've seen an XD at my dealer and found that I couldn't see the weave until I got very close to the screen.
...
I can't wait to start enjoying some AT goodness after 7 years of non AT with speakers in less than ideal locations.
Yes you should be good at that distance, I found personally in my testing that in bright APL scenes the weave would start to show up at around 11' away.

If you can find a source of extruded aluminum channel in the UK its a great material to make the frame out of, see my signature for my plans for this plus an automated masking system to integrate with it.

Enjoy!
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post #3250 of 3265 Old 09-15-2016, 10:30 AM
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Kelvin,


I find my RS600 on my 144 inch wide 2.40 XD plenty bright enough. No measurements just subjective. I use mostly the THX setting in low lamp with out of the box settings, I'm waiting to get some hours on the unit before doing a calibration. My front row is 13ft from the screen and my projector is about 19ft mounted on the rear wall and it is a bat cave. I think you'll be just fine.
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post #3251 of 3265 Old 09-15-2016, 11:09 AM
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That's good to hear, though when I first bought a meter I found out I'd been watching at around 5fL as I'd just closed the aperture to -15 on my old JVC HD350 (RS10) when I set it up and it seemed bright enough. I set it to 12fL and found it looked much punchier, so I've got used to this as a target, so I've always set my projectors up to this level since.

My X500 is also 19' from the screen too, so I'm nearer the low end of the zoom to fill the 10' wide XD, but my measurements were made with it set this way so I reckon I'll be OK to hit my target. I do also wonder just how close to the claimed 1.5 gain my old screen was because putting a sample of XD against it didn't really look any dimmer by eye (I never did an actual measurement to confirm though).

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post #3252 of 3265 Old 09-20-2016, 03:50 PM
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I just wanted to confirm a few things having received my brand new still in box XD screen material

1. Is there a minimum distance between my speakers and this screen?

2. I haven't got any black backing (which I'd planed on having with my original plan of the electric drop down XD screen). I was thinking of putting speaker grille fabric over the entire screen wall area to help with any leak through. I will be covering the wall around the speakers with AT foam tiles. Does it matter how far back from the XD this extra layer is?

Would this extra layer of material cause any issues or is this pretty much what everyone else does? I've bought some really good LCR speakers at half the regular new price (MK MP300) though they are the white versions, so I need to cover them to hide the white surface.

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post #3253 of 3265 Old 09-22-2016, 12:00 PM
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1) No

2) Anything from medium grey-to-darker behind the screen will do. No issue with soundproofing material behind the screen, unless it's a light color! I stuffed all the Safe & Sound material I could arround my speakers. The absorbing property will work thru the screen, like it's not there!
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post #3254 of 3265 Old 09-23-2016, 01:45 PM
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Hi,
This may fall into the "are you kidding" category, but I have a HT room (20x15x9) in an urban hi-rise, where I'm planning to do a drop-down retractable AT screen, with the Center Stage fabric TBD in 2.35:1 aspect ratio. My main reason for doing AT was to be able to have a vertical center channel matching my mains (PSB Imagine T2), but ideally I'd hide my mains behind the screen as well (and possibly left/right center channels that I can do with my Trinnov, but that's probably not going to be worth the trouble in my configuration).

Here's the thing: I have a 9' cement ceiling and I've managed to get good results from Dolby Atmos enabled modules put out by PSB, using two pairs of their PSB Imagine XA with the modules on top of my mains. I've charitably got 95" of space between my mains, so I could JUST do a 95" screen with the border material and moving the speakers out a few inches each way. However, in an ideal world, I'd put my mains behind the AT screen and add black fabric material to present a black background on the sides of the screen. That would allow me to go to a larger screen, like 105" or 110" (maybe bigger). But....I'm under the impression that the reflective speakers would be compromised by being behind an AT screen.

My question - if there's roughly uniform rolloff (+/- 2 to 3 db) or closer to it in the higher frequencies, is this really a concern WRT indirect sound coming from the Imagine XAs? There's a workaround, which would be to have the Dolby speakers just outside of the screen, and I'm also looking into the option of a false wall if my condo association approves, but the Atmos-based virtual imagery I have now works. And with my seating distance aimed at about 1/3 (6-7 ft) from the back room mode-cancelling with my subs, I'd be about 10' to 11' from a screen (figuring about up to 3' space behind the screen), so that 95' might just be too small given that I could get away with up to a 17' throw distance to screen with something like a JVC RS400 and easily 110' width based on the Projector Central calculator. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Stuart

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post #3255 of 3265 Old 09-24-2016, 08:30 AM
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Hi Stuart -

The acoustical transparency of the screen is not impacted by speaker angle - unlike perfed vinyl screens - so you can fire up from your mains with add-on Atmos just fine. You may want to specify that we make the header out of an acoustically transparent material too, so that you don't have anything reflective from the screen. Also keep in mind that every screen is made to order, so we can manufacture to the 0.1" resolution to any critical dimension you like.

Generally, we advise setting up your sound space to achieve its best as if there were no screen at all (which acoustically there won't be, especially for the indirect channels). Then, once you've achieved acoustics nirvana, either we can recommend some sizes based on guidelines (seating distance), or perhaps hard realities of the room or speakers dictate what we can work within. The most diligent would be to tack up a temporary screen such as a bedsheet and then measure out exactly what size and height you like. A touch of experience goes a long way.

The Center Stage UF would be the way to go in this room, too.

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post #3256 of 3265 Old 09-25-2016, 03:18 PM
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I went to a dealer open day yesterday, they have a number of different demo rooms, but all their projector displays use XD screens. This was really handy for me as two of them have the same 3 metre/10' wide 2.40:1 size I'm going to build using my XD material (which arrived perfectly intact from Ireland).

I really got a good feel for how far back I need to be before I can't see the weave and it's well within my proposed seating distance of 13'. They had Sony VW520ES and the older VW1000ES (on a 4.5 metre wide screen ) so I saw the XD with brighter projectors than my own X500. I think I'll be fine.

I also demo'd a stereo set up that used the same MK 300 series speakers that I have (it's the same place my used ones came from so not a surprise to me that they had a set on demo). The XD screen didn't seem to make any difference to the sound, which is a great take away too.

One demo room had a TV with in wall speakers below it (not dissimilar to my previous set up). I noticed the difference straight away compared to the AT screen demo rooms; just as well I'll be able to have my speakers in the 'right place' once my room is done. I can't wait...
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post #3257 of 3265 Old 09-26-2016, 12:50 PM
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Hi all. I'm really interested in the Ambient-Visionaire material to be used with a JVC RS600. I have a dedicated theater area of 23'x14'; it is light controlled, but I'd prefer an ALR screen as I'd like watch material with lights on.

There are 2 rows of seating, first row 13.57' away from where a screen would be mounted, and the second row 19.36' away.

1) What's the thinnest bezel fixed frame available for the Ambient-Visionaire 1.3 material? Looking for a scope screen.
2) Related to #1 , what is the largest size available?
3) Does anyone know the Vertical Half Gain Angle for the 1.3 material?

Thanks in advance!
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post #3258 of 3265 Old 09-27-2016, 09:13 AM
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Just wanted to give a shout-out to Chris. My company (Phase Technology) was exhibiting at CEDIA a couple weeks ago, and we had a Seymour Screen Excellence screen on loan from Chris for the show. During setup, Chris came by to see how it was going with the screen, and offered to send his calibrator over to calibrate our projector when we were ready (which we graciously took him up on). Later, toward the end of the first day of the show, he dropped by again to be sure we were satisified with how things were looking. And then, after the show was over, he and two of his guys came over and took the screen down and packed it for us (he may have been hoping to avoid damage to it, but still . . .). So I guess good customer service knows no bounds for Chris. Thanks a bunch!
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post #3259 of 3265 Old 09-27-2016, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantage78 View Post
Hi all. I'm really interested in the Ambient-Visionaire material to be used with a JVC RS600. I have a dedicated theater area of 23'x14'; it is light controlled, but I'd prefer an ALR screen as I'd like watch material with lights on.

There are 2 rows of seating, first row 13.57' away from where a screen would be mounted, and the second row 19.36' away.

1) What's the thinnest bezel fixed frame available for the Ambient-Visionaire 1.3 material? Looking for a scope screen.
2) Related to #1 , what is the largest size available?
3) Does anyone know the Vertical Half Gain Angle for the 1.3 material?

Thanks in advance!
1. 2.6" wide
2. In scope ratio, currently we can make 136.8" wide, 2.37 ratio image. or 138.5"w in 2.40 ratio. I'm working to hit 140" wide in a couple more months, firstly with the Black 1.2.
3. The vertical half-gain angles are the same as the horizontal, as the material is non-directional.

Generally I recommend the Black 1.2 as it's my favorite overall. It has some gain for pop, does a great job with black levels and ALR, and yields the smoothest image. It's the material that Scott Wilkenson said (with Wolf Cinema's D-ILA) was the best projected image at CEDIA, with by far the best black levels. The JVC engineers had to check out the combo, as it was performing better than their displays were.

With any ALR, you want the longest throw available if that is still flexible for you.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #3260 of 3265 Old 09-27-2016, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
1. 2.6" wide
2. In scope ratio, currently we can make 136.8" wide, 2.37 ratio image. or 138.5"w in 2.40 ratio. I'm working to hit 140" wide in a couple more months, firstly with the Black 1.2.
3. The vertical half-gain angles are the same as the horizontal, as the material is non-directional.

Generally I recommend the Black 1.2 as it's my favorite overall. It has some gain for pop, does a great job with black levels and ALR, and yields the smoothest image. It's the material that Scott Wilkenson said (with Wolf Cinema's D-ILA) was the best projected image at CEDIA, with by far the best black levels. The JVC engineers had to check out the combo, as it was performing better than their displays were.

With any ALR, you want the longest throw available if that is still flexible for you.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi Chris, thanks for the response! Some follow-up questions:

1) I'll definitely look into the Black 1.2. However, it seems to have a constraint of 2x the width of the screen for the minimum throw. For the size I am considering, 141" diagonal, a 2 x 130" W min throw would put me at 21.7'. I'm currently prewired for the projector to be mounted at 16.8'; I always thought if I move it back to 21' or so, I'd be losing image brightness?

2) How does vertical half-gain correspond to vertical viewing angle? Per my calculations with a 141" diagonal screen with a 54.8" high viewing area, I'm probably going to achieve a 16.15 degree vertical viewing angle for my first row, 8.52 degrees vertical viewing angle for my back row. Would a AV 1.3 or a AV 1.2 be ok considering those vertical viewing angles?

I appreciate the insight!
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post #3261 of 3265 Old Yesterday, 02:15 AM
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Comparison between XD (left) and Studiotek100 (Right) JVC/X7000. My XD-sample is 24inx24in, while my Studiotek-100 is 133"diagonal 2.35:1.

Projektor is in focus, the picture represents largely how I experience the difference in reality. It may seem like the projector is out of focus, but the "softness" you are seeing is a weakness from the camera.

XD has a slightly more shiny surface/texture, almost "sparkly" I would imagine this is to keep a good reflective surface, and as close to 1 in gain as possible despite perforated.
One can see on the picture that XD-screen actually visually stand out as slightly more defined in the edges. On the other hand one can clearly see the pixels on the ST-screen, but certainly not on the XD-screen, the square-pixels are drowning between the perforation on the XD.

On sitting distance(13,8 feet) generally speaking both screens look similar, both in detail and brightness. BUT with ST being a tad brighter, and a slightly slightly less "muddy" look, a bit more solid look on the ST(with eye) This is me being picky) And we have to remember that the ST-100 is a very good solid screen, i would say almost perfect/reference.

The XD is probably a very good candidate for people looking for a perforated screen.
I also have other modern-"4K"perforated screen samples here, but the XD stands out with its thickness,robustness and reflection(gain)

This is my personal experience, and not intended as a blueprint for others to follow. One should get some samples home before deciding
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post #3262 of 3265 Old Today, 06:45 AM
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I would argue that the slight loss of sharpness is a slight price to pay for the huge benefits of having the speakers behind the screen!
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post #3263 of 3265 Old Today, 01:34 PM
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I'm trying to decide between a Center Stage XD and Enlighter 4K. Front row seating distance is around 11 feet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Also, what is the difference between the Center Stage XD and the Enlightor-Bright?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
I'm trying to decide between a Center Stage XD and Enlighter 4K. Front row seating distance is around 11 feet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
That's borderline. You will really want to get samples of both and test.

It will also be much easier to light up the XD, so if brightness is needed, that's an important factor.

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