The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 111 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 202Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3301 of 3324 Old 01-17-2017, 03:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidK442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751
any owners here have experience with the Center Stage UF material paired with a Sony 40es? I'm really torn between this and another material for my screen choice. The UF seems to be very color neutral while the other one seems to have "slightly" better blacks. Of course, judging from these tiny samples isn't easy either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweeter2002 View Post
I'm also interested, I have the '40ES and looking forward to a larger screen size than what I have now and will need AT screen material to accomplish this

From my experience in a blacked out room, comparing multiple samples, and in fact several different full sized screen combinations, "better blacks" in an AT screen is directly related to "lower gain". I'm using a DLP projector with a contrast probably not too far off your Sony. In dark scenes the lowest gain screen always had an edge, but then looked comparatively dull on brighter scenes. Higher gain materials had the opposite effect. Ultimately I reached an acceptable compromise somewhere in the middle. Though the Center Stage UF had not yet been released when I finished my screen, comparison of a sample since makes the UF material my top choice.
chriscmore and Tweeter2002 like this.
DavidK442 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3302 of 3324 Old 01-18-2017, 01:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
We ran that combo for a while in our HT and really liked it.
Also, with a 45ES
Thanks for the feedback.
-Do you have the lamp mode in it's brightest setting with the UF
-Have you used a different screen material before going with the UF

I currently have Carl's Place Blackout Cloth that I'm very happy with and concerned that I'll notice a considerable drop off in not only brightness, but image detail.

Thank you

Projector: VPLHW40ES + DIY 125" Screen AVR: CX-A5100 + B&K REF 200.7
Speakers: DEFINITIVE TECHNOLOGY BP2000(FL/FR), CLR2000 (C), DEFINITIVE TECHNOLOGY BP10 (RL/RR),
MONITOR AUDIO CT265FX (Ceiling ATMOS/DTS), (4) MONITOR AUDIO CT265FX (Ceiling R/L REAR SURR)
Tweeter2002 is offline  
post #3303 of 3324 Old 01-19-2017, 07:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
scottyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: mound,mn,usa
Posts: 3,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 20
We use low lamp on a 100" wide 2:35 screen.
Tweeter2002 likes this.
scottyb is offline  
 
post #3304 of 3324 Old 01-21-2017, 06:44 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Question to chriscmore:

Fixed vs retractable tab tension.

Is there any difference in how they appear from start/new? Is a fixed always the best option over retractable regarding flat surface.. Or is it only over time that the retractable will get less "flat"?
Can you get the retractable to stay flat longer if you keep it down as much as you can or will it still get these kind of problems.

Thanx in advance!

May be going for the F110 UF retractable to my IMAGINAERUM build here in Sweden. I like wide viewing angle so I will sit close. 8-10 feet in first row is possible.

My build:

https://www.minhembio.com/IMAGINAERUM/
IMAGINAERUM is offline  
post #3305 of 3324 Old 01-21-2017, 12:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
youthman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Plant City, Fl
Posts: 1,002
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post
I knew this was coming...

I have a humble set-up compared to yours and others who have recently posted but I'll get a pic up later today!
Humble? Your setup looks awesome. Keep in mind that just by having a dedicated HT, you are probably in the 1% category.
laugsbach likes this.
youthman is offline  
post #3306 of 3324 Old 01-24-2017, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
chriscmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: IA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMAGINAERUM View Post
Question to chriscmore:

Fixed vs retractable tab tension.

Is there any difference in how they appear from start/new? Is a fixed always the best option over retractable regarding flat surface.. Or is it only over time that the retractable will get less "flat"?
Can you get the retractable to stay flat longer if you keep it down as much as you can or will it still get these kind of problems.

Thanx in advance!

May be going for the F110 UF retractable to my IMAGINAERUM build here in Sweden. I like wide viewing angle so I will sit close. 8-10 feet in first row is possible.

My build:

https://www.minhembio.com/IMAGINAERUM/
The engineer in me would always advocate fixed over retractable because it's a simpler solution. However, if motorized is what you need, such as I do, then our tab tensioned UF material is especially flat because it has no pvc to have any memory of anything. It won't change over time, as all of our surfaces are fiber reinforced unlike the stretchy vinyl screens. The only tradeoffs I can see with a retractable UF over a fixed solution are 1) cost, 2) forced black backing layer, 3) some pincushioning along the sides. If I were doing spreadsheets where the sides and corners would drive me nuts if they weren't dead-perfect, then I'd stick with an extruded frame. But for video it's not been a concern thus far.

Cheers,
Chris

Seymour AV
515-268-3369

Seymour-Screen Excellence
515-450-5694
chriscmore is offline  
post #3307 of 3324 Old 01-28-2017, 05:36 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
The engineer in me would always advocate fixed over retractable because it's a simpler solution. However, if motorized is what you need, such as I do, then our tab tensioned UF material is especially flat because it has no pvc to have any memory of anything. It won't change over time, as all of our surfaces are fiber reinforced unlike the stretchy vinyl screens. The only tradeoffs I can see with a retractable UF over a fixed solution are 1) cost, 2) forced black backing layer, 3) some pincushioning along the sides. If I were doing spreadsheets where the sides and corners would drive me nuts if they weren't dead-perfect, then I'd stick with an extruded frame. But for video it's not been a concern thus far.

Cheers,
Chris
but should tensioned retractable screens avoid the pincushion issue? I'm actually in trouble choosing my next screen. I've got a retractable Screen Research 90" wide (CP2+BB) and now, after placed an order for the 5000ES, I want to go bigger. Screen Research retractable over 120" do have a giant case and, as I'm in a situation of very low ceiling, I'm looking for substitutes. I saw Seymour retractable and indeed they seem perfect as regard dimensions. I could go 130" or 140" and maintain a 6" case.
So my concerns are about flatness, straight borders and moiree.
stefanop is offline  
post #3308 of 3324 Old 01-28-2017, 08:21 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
chriscmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: IA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanop View Post
but should tensioned retractable screens avoid the pincushion issue? I'm actually in trouble choosing my next screen. I've got a retractable Screen Research 90" wide (CP2+BB) and now, after placed an order for the 5000ES, I want to go bigger. Screen Research retractable over 120" do have a giant case and, as I'm in a situation of very low ceiling, I'm looking for substitutes. I saw Seymour retractable and indeed they seem perfect as regard dimensions. I could go 130" or 140" and maintain a 6" case.
So my concerns are about flatness, straight borders and moiree.
Tab tensioning gets you flatness. The material design eliminates moire. Pincushioning is essential in a tensioned retractable design to maintain lateral forces and flatness. We construct a fabric screen with patented assembly features, such as fabric velvet borders, which I believe in the end makes a far superior product to a painted roller shade, however non-pincushioned they can paint their lines.

Cheers,
Chris

Seymour AV
515-268-3369

Seymour-Screen Excellence
515-450-5694
chriscmore is offline  
post #3309 of 3324 Old 01-28-2017, 08:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Thank you for the explanation Chris!

Do retractables (Seymour) have a good black backing? Screen is in front of big library (wall-wide)
I'm tempted by UF material because of the smaller texture. I seat 13 feet away so XD would probably be the same, but I'd like to see a flat surface. With ClearP2 I can perfectly see the material from 15 feet away in very bright scenes.
stefanop is offline  
post #3310 of 3324 Old 01-28-2017, 09:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Correction:... With ClearP2 I can perfectly see the weave from 15 feet away in very bright scenes.

sorry,

Stefano
stefanop is offline  
post #3311 of 3324 Old 01-28-2017, 09:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Last two question Chris,

technical differences between Enlightor 4K and UF?
If I'd buy a screen, should I have to do directly by SeymourAV or do you have a distributor in EU? (the problem is obviously Custom Clearance).

Thank you in advance,

Stefano
stefanop is offline  
post #3312 of 3324 Old 01-29-2017, 09:18 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
chriscmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: IA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Hi Stefano -

The retractables all feature a secondary black backing layer, so your library wall (or flat panel, or white speakers) won't affect the image.

The XD is evolutionarily better than the CP2 in every performance metric, but since you're after a significant improvement and mentioned texture, I'd go with the UF.

Enlightor-4K is the only randomized weave AT material, and has no minimum seating distance. It's used at mastering studios as close as on the other side of the mixing console (~1m). It has no frequency or phase effect with a flat -2dB attenuation across the frequency spectrum below ~30kHz. It would be available to you only through Screen Excellence at the UK division, and they have distributors throughout the EU.

The Center Stage UF is not a randomized weave, it measures about +10% higher gain than EN-4K (and -20% from XD), and has a whiter look. It's good at ~1.5m further, so you're fine here.

We service customers directly, hence our ability to price the product at a factory-direct price rather than through the distributor/dealer model. The logistics of customs clearance is handled through UPS. I don't know what your non-delivery fees would be in addition to the product, because all countries are different. I'm sure your local network of AV enthusiasts has had some experience bringing in US product?

Cheers,
Chris

Seymour AV
515-268-3369

Seymour-Screen Excellence
515-450-5694
chriscmore is offline  
post #3313 of 3324 Old 01-29-2017, 11:48 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Italy
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Hello Chris,

thank you very very much for your kind and tech answer. UF will be the way to go. I haven't received the new projector but I'm sure it's plenty of light and -10% -20 % -30% in 11 or 12 ft wide screen wouldn't be a problem.
When I'll proceed with it, I'll contact you directly at Seymour AV email.
Thank you again!

Stefano
stefanop is offline  
post #3314 of 3324 Old 02-04-2017, 02:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Cutting it too close?

I have a small 80" x 45" viewable frame. If I wanted to be super cheap, would I be able to get away with ordering 4ft of Center Stage UF? So, the fabric would be 84" x 48" and my spline would be about 1" in on all sides. That would leave about .5" - 1" on the edges. Not knowing how stretchy the UF is, would that be possible? If I am able to move the splines in .5" inch each, leaving 1" - 1.5" on the edges, would that be enough?

Last edited by genesis_avs; 02-04-2017 at 02:18 PM.
genesis_avs is offline  
post #3315 of 3324 Old 02-07-2017, 10:32 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
chriscmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: IA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis_avs View Post
I have a small 80" x 45" viewable frame. If I wanted to be super cheap, would I be able to get away with ordering 4ft of Center Stage UF? So, the fabric would be 84" x 48" and my spline would be about 1" in on all sides. That would leave about .5" - 1" on the edges. Not knowing how stretchy the UF is, would that be possible? If I am able to move the splines in .5" inch each, leaving 1" - 1.5" on the edges, would that be enough?
You'd be close, but the material will stretch ~1/2"-1". If you have fine fingers no problem. If you have Andre the Giant hands, you may appreciate more area.

Good on the spline track. A great way to install it at smaller sizes so you get perfectly consistent tension.

Cheers,
Chris

Seymour AV
515-268-3369

Seymour-Screen Excellence
515-450-5694
chriscmore is offline  
post #3316 of 3324 Old 03-14-2017, 10:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Just ordered up the H120 in 16:9 with the CW masking panels in UF. Can't wait to get it set up. I'm wondering if anybody has tried to illuminate the speakers behind the UF material? In talking with Jon at Seymour, he's not certain somebody has tried it. I've set mine up where I have the capability, but I'm at the point of needing to figure out what type of lighting. I was planning to just do a LED tape strip along the lower portion. At this point recessed lights would be tough to install, but not out of the question.
arcticbowman is online now  
post #3317 of 3324 Old 03-14-2017, 12:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
youthman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Plant City, Fl
Posts: 1,002
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 282
I do not have the UF material but know it works with the Center Stage XD material. At first, I just had three flood lights shining down from the top but it was pretty dark and difficult to really see "through" the fabric. Adding bright LED's on the bottom really helped out a lot. You can see how much brighter the LED's are as opposed to the flood lights that are up top shining down onto the speakers.

youthman is offline  
post #3318 of 3324 Old 03-14-2017, 03:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Youthman, I've gotten a lot of inspiration for my theater from your build, so I appreciate your posts here and on Youtube.


Are the LED's you installed basic strip lighting? Are they laid flat or slightly angled towards the screen or speakers?
arcticbowman is online now  
post #3319 of 3324 Old 03-14-2017, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
youthman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Plant City, Fl
Posts: 1,002
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Thanks arctic. I too have gotten a lot of inspiration from the AVS Community.

I initially purchased my LED strip that is around the outside of my screen from CB Concept. After I discovered that the three flood lights were not bright enough, I contacted them and they recommended the SMD5050 - http://www.cbconcept.com/120VLEDSMD5050Rope-Blue.aspx. They ended up being much brighter than the original ones and they are even thicker / wider than the 1st set I purchased. Their customer service is fantastic too. They responded to all of my emails very quickly.

My friend that build my cabinet made an angled 2x4 and cut a groove in it that was the perfect fit for the original LED's but the SMD5050 are wider so they don't fit. I just haven't had time to borrow someone's router to try and widen the groove for the new LED's.

Hope that helps.
laugsbach and arcticbowman like this.
youthman is offline  
post #3320 of 3324 Old 03-14-2017, 08:11 PM
Member
 
Fazzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbowman View Post
Just ordered up the H120 in 16:9 with the CW masking panels in UF. Can't wait to get it set up. I'm wondering if anybody has tried to illuminate the speakers behind the UF material? In talking with Jon at Seymour, he's not certain somebody has tried it. I've set mine up where I have the capability, but I'm at the point of needing to figure out what type of lighting. I was planning to just do a LED tape strip along the lower portion. At this point recessed lights would be tough to install, but not out of the question.
Based on my experience it doesn't work with UF. I compared swatches of UF and XD before purchasing and XD is definitely more porous that UF (see below). I have a Premier frame with 114.7" diagonal UF screen. I have two recessed lights behind my screen in the ceiling.

Here's what it looks like behind my screen (minus some speaker stands I built after I took the pic, but you get the idea.


Here's a couple of shots with only these two lights on behind the screen.



So you migtht be asking yourself - "maybe your lights aren't bright enough or they're positioned too far behind your speakers"

I pulled off one of my fabric panels and put a bright painting light under my left speaker shining right up the speaker stand and speaker face. Here's a pic. You still can't see them.

Now, maybe I'm not placing the light in the right spot, or I need more lights, but I was hoping to have the same effect as Youthman in my theater, but have been unable to reproduce. I believe UF just isn't porous enough to show light back through. It feels like a piece of spandex and I think the holes letting sound through are just too small to produce the desired effect. I was actually able to dig up my samples and took pictures of both holding up about a foot in front of my TV with a basketball game on behind it and full lights on in the room. You can clearly see through the XD, but not at all through the UF.
XD

UF


Maybe Chris can shed some light on things (pardon the pun) in a more technical way. My screen has been great so no complaints here about anything. Hopefully this helps.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9441.JPG
Views:	118
Size:	170.6 KB
ID:	2026593   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9445.JPG
Views:	118
Size:	165.8 KB
ID:	2026601   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9442.JPG
Views:	118
Size:	151.1 KB
ID:	2026609   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8765.JPG
Views:	118
Size:	233.1 KB
ID:	2026617   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9450.JPG
Views:	121
Size:	344.9 KB
ID:	2026625  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9449.JPG
Views:	117
Size:	241.9 KB
ID:	2026633  
laugsbach likes this.
Fazzz is offline  
post #3321 of 3324 Old 03-14-2017, 11:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Youth & Fazzz, thank you both! I'll give it a try since it's wired up for the lighting, but even if it does work, I'm not sure how often I'd use it. I'll plan to do some bright color LED's along the bottom, maybe even a couple strips.
arcticbowman is online now  
post #3322 of 3324 Old 03-15-2017, 05:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidK442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Acoustically transparent screen material has a tough enough job already. It needs to allow audio through unhindered while reflecting as much light as possible, without altering the spectrum, hot spotting, sparkeling, blooming or dirtying the image with it's weave pattern.
Now you want it to "reveal" like a women's dress back-lit by the sun. Sheesh!

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sundress.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	86.3 KB
ID:	2027049  
chriscmore and Fazzz like this.

Last edited by DavidK442; 03-15-2017 at 06:59 AM.
DavidK442 is online now  
post #3323 of 3324 Old 03-16-2017, 09:53 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
chriscmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: IA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Especially with the UF (it may be too light opaque for you in this regard), you need to minimize the light hitting the backside of the screen, otherwise it becomes more opaque. Mark Seaton hit this Star Wars build with a lot of LED strips, but I'd go with more directional if possible. The efficiency goes up if you simply light from one side, maximizing the 3D-ness of the highlighting. Finally, a bit of tension brings it to spec.

Cheers,
Chris

Seymour AV
515-268-3369

Seymour-Screen Excellence
515-450-5694
chriscmore is offline  
post #3324 of 3324 Old Today, 02:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
Especially with the UF (it may be too light opaque for you in this regard), you need to minimize the light hitting the backside of the screen, otherwise it becomes more opaque. Mark Seaton hit this Star Wars build with a lot of LED strips, but I'd go with more directional if possible. The efficiency goes up if you simply light from one side, maximizing the 3D-ness of the highlighting. Finally, a bit of tension brings it to spec.

Cheers,
Chris
Thanks for the response Chris. I'll plan to install a LED light strip inside a channel on the bottom and directed up at an angle towards the speakers. If they show up, great, if not, I guess that light switch will just stay off.
arcticbowman is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Screens

Tags
Seymour Av

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off