The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2724 Old 08-13-2009, 02:01 PM
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Hey pilot-in-training -

We don't yet have masking panels. Likely that project will start after we get back from CEDIA. They'd easily insert into our frames for those who already have ordered screens.

We focus on one screen material, the 1.2 gain Center Stage XD. With the exception of high ambient light environments, where any white screen takes a hit, it balances reflectivity, uniformity, purity, and air permeability exceedingly well. So, one material, one gain = that's it.

Cheers,
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post #542 of 2724 Old 08-14-2009, 07:00 AM
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Thanks chris for the reply. 1.2 Gain is what I am looking for. It works out. You definitely have my business when it is screen time.

What was the discussion between Seymour panels and GOM panels, if you don't have masking panels yet? I guess that part confused me.
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post #543 of 2724 Old 08-14-2009, 01:52 PM
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Since we sell material and support DIY builds, I was asked the difference in performance of our black backing acoustically transparent material vs. a commonly used black A.T. material, GoM. Uses include false walls, speaker covers, black backing (standard on our electrics, optional on the fixed frame, and occasionally used on DIY builds). The summary is that GoM is less reflective, but not as A.T.

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post #544 of 2724 Old 08-14-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Since we sell material and support DIY builds, I was asked the difference in performance of our black backing acoustically transparent material vs. a commonly used black A.T. material, GoM. Uses include false walls, speaker covers, black backing (standard on our electrics, optional on the fixed frame, and occasionally used on DIY builds). The summary is that GoM is less reflective, but not as A.T.

Black backing vs. masking. Got it.

I hope the masking materials come to fruition. You have around 5-6 months to make it happen before my purchase.
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post #545 of 2724 Old 08-14-2009, 03:22 PM
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I am over the pond in the UK and am considering this material for use with a Pioneer DILA projector (RS2 clone). The problem I have, is that I am very limited on space, hence the reason I am considering an AT material. The maximum width for the screen would be (84") 215cm, but more likely to be around (80") 205cm. I will also only be sitting as little as 10ft from the screen.

Has anyone experimented with these sort of sizes/distances, and is moire going to be an issue?

Thanks for any help you can give....
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post #546 of 2724 Old 08-14-2009, 03:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R10KYJ View Post

I am over the pond in the UK and am considering this material for use with a Pioneer DILA projector (RS2 clone). The problem I have, is that I am very limited on space, hence the reason I am considering an AT material. The maximum width for the screen would be (84") 215cm, but more likely to be around (80") 205cm. I will also only be sitting as little as 10ft from the screen.

Has anyone experimented with these sort of sizes/distances, and is moire going to be an issue?

Thanks for any help you can give....

Your distances are fine. We are 9ft from the screen and can't see texture. With the new XD material you won't have moire issues.

Scott
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post #547 of 2724 Old 08-15-2009, 06:19 AM
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Sorry for the delay - I got everything installed last weekend (still tweaking and tuning). Here's a couple pictures. This is the Seymour Fixed Frame 130 (130" horizontal) in 2.37.

The picture on it is outstanding. You have to get so close to the screen to see the grain that you'd never want to sit there (3-4' or so).

The build of the screen is very well done. I like well engineered products and this is right up there. Very easy to assemble, very solid feeling, and looks beautiful when it's done. I love the method used to attach the screen to the frame. My wife was out of town when I installed it and she was really impressed when she came back to see it.

All in all - very pleased - definite two thumbs up for anyone considering purchasing.

(edit: speakers are Emotiva 6.2s for LCR (and 4 ERD-1s for surrounds); subwoofer is Elemental Designs A5-350 on it's side)

(sorry the pics aren't that professional, I need to take some real ones of the full installation)
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post #548 of 2724 Old 08-17-2009, 08:16 AM
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i like to chime in with my 2 cents also.

bought a 95" fixed frame.

construction is top notch. assembly is easy too. in fact, my wife helped out in doing the O rings as well.

The materials were well packed. The frame members were double boxed and wrapped in plenty of bubble wrap.

I live in a apartment and the humongous long box would'nt fit in the lift. The UPS guys were not so happy to carry it up via the stairs.

The picture was fabulous and the sound, well, to my untrained ears, I couldnt notice the difference. Maybe a tad softer which is easily overcome by boosting the center speakers up about 1 db or so.
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post #549 of 2724 Old 08-24-2009, 07:30 AM
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I spent some time with the new Sencore and have some results of the Center Stage XD color testing.

Our Sencore OTC-1000 was calibrated at their facility against a Photo Research PR650 Spectra Colormeter (ID#73P650-1, SN 60940101). An Epson 7500UB that Epson sent us was calibrated to D65, x=.313 y=.329 on the 1931 CIE chart using a white reflectance standard target from NASA.

First, the Epson 7500UB was calibrated to the NASA reflectance target. Then, the target was replaced with the Center Stage XD screen material to measure what difference in color it had to the calibrated reference. The measured result shows a color value of x=.315, y=.333 or a color shift of x=+.002, y=+.004, dE=2.5. The resulting color temperature was 6345K. Delta RGB measured red +/-0.0%, green +/-0.0% and blue -2.9%.





After CEDIA I'll run some more tests to look into repeatability, uniformity, etc.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #550 of 2724 Old 08-29-2009, 03:58 PM
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Hi Chris,

The new fixed frames looks great. Any plans to sell curved screens? It looks like the new extrusion could be roller bent although I know a lot of extrusion companies can also do this. If you did I'd purchase one in an instant

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post #551 of 2724 Old 08-31-2009, 01:30 PM
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Hey Moggie -

Since there isn't any uniformity, brightness, or AT benefit to curving the XD material, it's not on the short list. It does correct for anamorphic distortion and generally looks cool, but I want to see where CEDIA is headed first.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #552 of 2724 Old 08-31-2009, 03:34 PM
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Chris, thanks for the reply. Anamorphic distortion correction and the wrap around coolness factor are my top two reasons together with the ability to push the screen backward a little further while keeping room behind the screen for corner base traps. Maybe it will have to be DIY for me then but the XD material does look good...

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post #553 of 2724 Old 09-01-2009, 05:28 AM
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I have one of the Fixed 130" screens and am using it with HTB's lens. There is a small amount of distortion - but it's really small. With testing screens up, I can see it - pincushion of around .5". I think my PJ/lens is back far enough that I'm not seeing too many problems.

Yes, there is a coolness to curved - but I'm glad I didn't go this route. The flat screen gives more seating area. If it was curved, I think I'd lose my outer seats some. When we get a full house - it's nice to have the flat screen.
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post #554 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 04:05 AM
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I'm getting close to being ready for my screen and have a question.

Rather than mounting a 115" wide retractable to a wall, I'll be mounting it to a "slide" that allows the screen to be hidden away when not in use. (over the top of the entertainment center out of view)

My question is about the beefiness of the DIN rail. Will I be able to mount the DIN rail directly to the slide's two L brackets or will I need to put a stiff board in between to simulate a wall?

Oh and will there be any delays in order fulfillment due to Cedia? And/or will there be any promotions around Cedia?

thanks,
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post #555 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 10:56 AM
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You can download the mounting instructions. The DIN rail should be screwed to 6 or so joists or studs...
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post #556 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 11:47 AM
 
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I have been thinking about building an AT screen in my dedicated room. Chris has a sample of his screen material on it's way to me. I currently have a 106" Elunevision fixed frame screen. My idea is to make a frame slightly smaller than the frame for my existing screen and attach this frame to the back of my existing velvet covered frame. My existing frame will just be used to provide a black velver border. I will either build the frame out of wood and spline the screen in place or I will buy some "Tight Screen" framing to build the frame with. Should work very well.
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post #557 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 12:43 PM
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Hi Ken -

For a traditional wall or ceiling, the DIN needs at least 3 load-bearing mounting points to hold the screen's appx 55 to 65 pound weight. Six screws are provided as ideal. Some folks mount the bar to other, more rigid framework such as articulated mounts or frames.

That said, we have two styles of mounts that serve the same function but are preferred for wall or ceiling mounting. The case has extrusions and screws for either one, but for wall mounting I prefer a flatter, lighter-duty DIN rail since it allows the case to contact the wall and more easily sit level. It's strong across the 1.38" dimension (what fits into the case slot), but not across the 0.3" dimension. In a wall mount situation, it acts like a french cleat, so all the loading is across the 1.38" and across the appx. 5.5" square thick-walled extruded case.

For ceiling mounts, or whenever someone is trying something a bit strange, I use a heavier duty DIN rail, which is 0.6" thick. I'd say as long as your "slide" is rigid, and you are able to engage the case (which is extremely rigid) then you should be fine without a bridge board. Just make sure to clarify with us that you want the heavier duty ceiling bar.

Brad from MN cut the heavy duty bar in half and mounted each half to articulated mounts. There's a pic of his install here: http://www.seymourav.com/installsretractable.asp

Cheers,
Chris

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post #558 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 05:24 PM
 
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Chris, If I am only placing a small center speaker behind the screen, do I still need to allow 2" of clearance? My speakers (RBH WM30 www.rbhsound.com/wm30.shtml) have two 4" drivers, two 4" passive radiators and a silk dome tweeter. I will cross to the mains at 100Hz, so they will not be trying to play anything low. My room does not have a lot of depth, so I do not want to use any more space than I have to. I am hoping that I can place the screen 1" from the drivers. Please advise.
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post #559 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 06:12 PM
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The 2" screen to speaker minimum distance spec is from the original material. The new Center Stage XD is more permeable (+0.5dB above 8kHz), allowing that minimum distance to shrink to 1". Even a 1", it's mostly only a technical issue - showing up in measurements, but inaudible - depending of course on the crossover frequency of what's being played behind the material. If it's crossed over to a sub (e.g. >80Hz), then it's not an issue. You can place the material as close to drivers as you are able.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #560 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 07:13 PM
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Thanks Chris. I see in your pics the install with the Peerless articulating mount. Very similar to mine support wise.

I'm going to go ahead and mount a manual screen I have to test the setup. I had already added 5 pseudo studs, so should be more than fine.

Thanks,
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post #561 of 2724 Old 09-06-2009, 07:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

The 2" screen to speaker minimum distance spec is from the original material. The new Center Stage XD is more permeable (+0.5dB above 8kHz), allowing that minimum distance to shrink to 1". Even a 1", it's mostly only a technical issue - showing up in measurements, but inaudible - depending of course on the crossover frequency of what's being played behind the material. If it's crossed over to a sub (e.g. >80Hz), then it's not an issue. You can place the material as close to drivers as you are able.

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks, that is what I thought and hoped you would say.
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post #562 of 2724 Old 09-07-2009, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

The 2" screen to speaker minimum distance spec is from the original material. The new Center Stage XD is more permeable (+0.5dB above 8kHz), allowing that minimum distance to shrink to 1". Even a 1", it's mostly only a technical issue - showing up in measurements, but inaudible - depending of course on the crossover frequency of what's being played behind the material. If it's crossed over to a sub (e.g. >80Hz), then it's not an issue. You can place the material as close to drivers as you are able.

Cheers,
Chris

chris, is there any advantage to having the speakers farther away from the screen... say 6 to 8 inches instead of 1" or 2"? i can't remember if it was this thread where you (or someone) measured speaker distances. the speakers im going to use are klipsch 650 thx lcr's. thanks.

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post #563 of 2724 Old 09-07-2009, 10:54 AM
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Anthony -

The comb filtering through the screen can be measured using 1/24 octave resolution in the 10-20kHz range, which isn't audible but can at least indicate what's going on. We can only resolve 1/3 to 1/6 octave combing, and being in the top octave of frequencies is especially inaudible (unless it's moving around). The 1/24 octave measurements show that the closer the speaker is to the material, the combing bands widen and shift down in frequency, both of which make it more audible. The reality check is that when you smooth it to 1/3 or 1/6 resolution, even at 1" the comb filtering effect no longer shows up (i.e. inaudible).

At greater 6-8" distances, at a 1/24 octave resolution the combing bands narrow and shift up in frequency, which would be less audible. Again, in the more realistic check of audibility, at 1/3 or 1/6 octave resolution, there isn't comb filtering to improve upon.

Therefore, for an RTA, sure, space it further. For hearing capabilities, it makes no difference.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #564 of 2724 Old 09-09-2009, 01:42 PM
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I wanted to publicly say how impressed I am by Chris and SeymourAV for putting together a very nice screen at a great price. And, importantly, providing extremely responsive customer service as I bombarded him with questions as I debated the DIY vs. made to order path. I went back and forth on saving money and putting together a wooden framed screen with the Seymour CenterStage material, or buying one of the Seymour fixed screens. My lack of handiness (or laziness, call it what you will) won out and I'm glad it did because there is no way I could have produced the quality of screen that I received.

And its just in time for football season.
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post #565 of 2724 Old 09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
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SOB Chris! The only reason I didnt go with a seymour is I didnt want to build a frame. Now I still want to go AT but bought a carada bw screen and frame last year!!! oh well, anyone wanna buy a nice 120" screen???
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post #566 of 2724 Old 09-10-2009, 09:30 AM
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Easy enough to post here on avs ads.
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post #567 of 2724 Old 09-10-2009, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Easy enough to post here on avs ads.

true but how do you tell the wife. Oh hey honey im selling my screen so I can buy another one just like it but better!
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post #568 of 2724 Old 09-10-2009, 01:16 PM
 
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My current screen is a106" (16/9) Elunevision screen. Specs said it was 1.3 gain. I received the sample of XD Center Stage material from Chris. Chris sent it out the day we spoke. Thanks Chris. My projector is a 720P DLP (Planar PD7130). Viewing distance is 10'-9". I tested the sample by taping it to my screen. here is what I found:

Gain is very close between the two. The Elunevision screen was a tiny bit brighter only on a white scene. On darker scenes they both looked the same. The XD Center Stage material showed more texture, but once again only on a white scene. Based on video alone I would stay with the Elunevision screen, but that is leaving out half of the HT experience. I tested the audio by simply moving the center speaker from horizontal below the screen to vertically in front of the screen. In this test the center speaker is not behind any screen material. I will have to say that you can tell a difference between the two. it sounded better with the center speaker vertically placed in the middle of the screen. Now I have to decide if it sounds $300 better because that it what it will cost me to DIY using my existing frame. Decisions, decisions.
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post #569 of 2724 Old 09-10-2009, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebrick View Post

true but how do you tell the wife. Oh hey honey im selling my screen so I can buy another one just like it but better!

You might try mjg's idea and simply replace the fabric on your Carada frame. That should be an easier sell.
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post #570 of 2724 Old 09-10-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendo70433 View Post

You might try mjg's idea and simply replace the fabric on your Carada frame. That should be an easier sell.

I am going to make a simple wood frame with a grove in the face of the frame. Wood frame will be strutted at third points. Then I will use some screen bead to attach the screen to the wood frame. If you have ever beaded screen before, you know that it can pull the fabric nice and tight. I will then screw the wood frame to the Elunevision frame. Wood frame will be made smaller than the Elunvision frame so that the XD material will be held tight to the inside portion of the Elunevision frame. Should make for a simple install.
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