The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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Screens > The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread!
Spirit84's Avatar Spirit84 08:03 PM 04-22-2011
I know that sometimes when you walk into an Audio/Video retailer you have to take what the sales people tell you with a large grain of salt. Nevertheless, this is what happened today. I was very impressed with a Runco LS5 that I saw today but when I mentioned that I would be buying a AT screen from a company called Seymour, the salesman cautioned that I will probably experience a rainbow effect because of the perforations in the screen. I have never experienced this "rainbow effect" during the few times that I have been in the store but it has me a bit nervous. I don't know much about this effect but would aprpeciate the experts comments.
I plan on sitting 15 feet from the screen. Based on Chris's recommendations I will probably purchase a screen between 110 and 120 feet wide.
Is this an issue?

doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 08:50 PM 04-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit84 View Post

I know that sometimes when you walk into an Audio/Video retailer you have to take what the sales people tell you with a large grain of salt. Nevertheless, this is what happened today. I was very impressed with a Runco LS5 that I saw today but when I mentioned that I would be buying a AT screen from a company called Seymour, the salesman cautioned that I will probably experience a rainbow effect because of the perforations in the screen. I have never experienced this "rainbow effect" during the few times that I have been in the store but it has me a bit nervous. I don't know much about this effect but would aprpeciate the experts comments.
I plan on sitting 15 feet from the screen. Based on Chris's recommendations I will probably purchase a screen between 110 and 120 feet wide.
Is this an issue?

First of all, the Runco LS-5 is an excellent projector.........sharp, colors that pop...........but not on a 110-120 ft wide screen!!!!!

You should have asked the dealer how he plans on dealing with inferior audio due to L/R speakers being in the corner and the center well below ear level. The sound stage would be lacking, not to mention acoustic anomalies associated with a reflective screen. By going with a weave AT screen, you lose maybe < 5% video quality at most!

BTW, the dealer was referring to moire.......which can be eliminated by proper rotation of the material............besides, the Seymour screen is a weave, not a perf. I'd run from that dealer as fast as you can..........I've eliminated many CI's due to similar horsepucky!!!
Spirit84's Avatar Spirit84 09:06 PM 04-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

First of all, the Runco LS-5 is an excellent projector.........sharp, colors that pop...........but not on a 110-120 ft wide screen!!!!!

You should have asked the dealer how he plans on dealing with inferior audio due to L/R speakers being in the corner and the center well below ear level. The sound stage would be lacking, not to mention acoustic anomalies associated with a reflective screen. By going with a weave AT screen, you lose maybe < 5% video quality at most!

BTW, the dealer was referring to moire.......which can be eliminated by proper rotation of the material............besides, the Seymour screen is a weave, not a perf. I'd run from that dealer as fast as you can..........I've eliminated many CI's due to similar horsepucky!!!

Doublewing:
Thank you for responding and pardon my newbie ignorance!
What do you mean that the Runco is not comatible with a 110-120 ft wide screen? What is the problem with that? I have not been told this before. Is there info somewhere that discusses this issue.
deromax's Avatar deromax 09:38 PM 04-22-2011
Spirit84, we question the screen size you mentionned (two times), because 120 feet doesn't typically fit in a normal house!

About dealers "advices", I say decide on what product you want, make and model, by reading on the web, then go to the store and purchase it. If not available at one place, go elsewhere right on. Don't let them convince you onto something else. Dismiss the advices about stuff they don't sell. You were steered away from an AT screen, most probably because they don't carry any AT screens.

One way to conveniently bypass the annoying sellers is purchasing on the web!
Spirit84's Avatar Spirit84 10:01 PM 04-22-2011
My bad! Shoot - I am a real maroon!!
OK - so at 110 to 120 INCHES is the Runco a good choice?
Does it have enough light output in a very dark room? Kind of like a bat cave if necessary.
Spirit84's Avatar Spirit84 10:34 PM 04-22-2011
I am wondering if the experts can give me a hand please and confirm my thinking:
My ceiling height is 7 feet.
My seating position will be 15 feet head to screen on a regular leather couch.
I would like to order the Seymour retractable 16x9 screen which will be mounted on a wood stud on the ceiling away from the wall.
My centre speaker is (unfortunately) horizontal.
Chris has told me that a good position to mount the speaker would be about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way from the floor which would be close to ear level. I am trying to see if I can still install a 65" Plasma above the speaker.
So here are the calculations:
Total height: 84 inches
1/3 from the floor: 28 inches
Height of speaker: 9 inches
Remaining room to top: 47 inches
Height of plasma: 38 inches
Top of plasma to ceil: 9 inches
Do you think that the Plasma will be in a decent position for viewing from 15 feet?
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 11:46 PM 04-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit84 View Post

My bad! Shoot - I am a real maroon!!
OK - so at 110 to 120 INCHES is the Runco a good choice?
Does it have enough light output in a very dark room? Kind of like a bat cave if necessary.

It should be fine. I am running a far inferior 720p DLP projector on a similar sized Center Stage XD screen and it looks fantastic. Like was said above, as long as you order the screen with the material tilted there will be no moire (rainbows).
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 11:52 PM 04-22-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit84 View Post

I am wondering if the experts can give me a hand please and confirm my thinking:
My ceiling height is 7 feet.
My seating position will be 15 feet head to screen on a regular leather couch.
I would like to order the Seymour retractable 16x9 screen which will be mounted on a wood stud on the ceiling away from the wall.
My centre speaker is (unfortunately) horizontal.
Chris has told me that a good position to mount the speaker would be about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way from the floor which would be close to ear level. I am trying to see if I can still install a 65" Plasma above the speaker.
So here are the calculations:
Total height: 84 inches
1/3 from the floor: 28 inches
Height of speaker: 9 inches
Remaining room to top: 47 inches
Height of plasma: 38 inches
Top of plasma to ceil: 9 inches
Do you think that the Plasma will be in a decent position for viewing from 15 feet?

It is probably not ideal, but I think that 15 feet away you can probably get away with it. I would frame it out on the wall with masking tape and see how it feels from your seating position to be sure. You may want to also try the 1/4 of the distance from the floor and see which you like better.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 08:35 AM 04-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit84 View Post

My bad! Shoot - I am a real maroon!!
OK - so at 110 to 120 INCHES is the Runco a good choice?
Does it have enough light output in a very dark room? Kind of like a bat cave if necessary.

The LS-5 will be perfect for a screen that size............120 inches wide is about MAX for the projector.

Some people here comment about products and have never seen them in person.......beware. I prefer DLP and have seen the Runco LS-5 in the flesh........outstanding projector and IMHO is the best projector choice <$7000. With that said, I made my projector choice based on viewing the LS-5........

Yeah, I'll be purchasing a RUNCO LS-10i site unseen...........but there are not too many 3 chippers ie. light cannons available at my price point, therefore I'm stuck with one choice.

Best of luck..........
Spirit84's Avatar Spirit84 10:19 AM 04-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

The LS-5 will be perfect for a screen that size............120 inches wide is about MAX for the projector.

Some people here comment about products and have never seen them in person.......beware. I prefer DLP and have seen the Runco LS-5 in the flesh........outstanding projector and IMHO is the best projector choice <$7000. With that said, I made my projector choice based on viewing the LS-5........

Yeah, I'll be purchasing a RUNCO LS-10i site unseen...........but there are not too many 3 chippers ie. light cannons available at my price point, therefore I'm stuck with one choice.

Best of luck..........

Doublewing:
thank you for the advice - you are right - some people offer opinions not having seen a projector in action!
You have - so I take your advice very seriously!!
Because I am really new to this - can you teach (explain) to me why screen cannot exceed 120" when using the LS5.
Also, is the LS3 as good a choice - I notice that the LS3 doesn't have horizontal lens shift but I don't even know what that means of it matters.
I assume that you believe that this so-called Rainbow effect will not be an issue on Chris's screen.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 01:19 PM 04-23-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit84 View Post

Doublewing:
thank you for the advice - you are right - some people offer opinions not having seen a projector in action!
You have - so I take your advice very seriously!!
Because I am really new to this - can you teach (explain) to me why screen cannot exceed 120" when using the LS5.
Also, is the LS3 as good a choice - I notice that the LS3 doesn't have horizontal lens shift but I don't even know what that means of it matters.
I assume that you believe that this so-called Rainbow effect will not be an issue on Chris's screen.

LS-3 and LS-5 are really the same machine with exception of a few features which horizontal lens shift is one. Len shift whether horizontal or vertical allow installation flexibility........if you are installing yourself, you need as much flexibility as possible. Proper placement of the projector can eliminate projection problems, but I for one would never own a projector without horizontal and vertical lens shift.

Don't worry about moire..............I'd worry more about why your sound stinks rather than the fear of moire! IMHO, audio is the most important aspect of movie watching............once again, my opinion and you have to decide for yourself.

120" wide 1.78 screen for the LS-5 is the max manufacture recommended screen size for a reason. Sure, your picture might look great at first, but after 200 hours the lumens degrade quite significantly. A dull image is due to a lack of lumen output............make sure whatever projector you decide upon, you have ample light output as the bulb dims. The biggest problem most posters run into is having too big a screen for their projector and are not happy with their image as the bulb ages............just check out the current JVC threads.

I find movies at the theater quite dim...........so I've chosen to go the 3 chip DLP route with CIH screen. I prefer 18-20 lumens for 2.37 (all lights off), and 30-40 lumens on a 1.78 screen (all lights on). Tough to find a projector to handle those parameters.............3 chip is the only way for me.

Another fact you might consider with screen and projector selection is contrast, ie. bright/dark scenes..........the LS-5 has great blacks for DLP! Once again...........visit store fronts and find out for yourself ie. don't listen to anybody, including me!
mcfoo's Avatar mcfoo 01:11 PM 04-24-2011
Moire is caused by optical interference between pixel structure and screen weave, and can ruin a picture. Rainbow effect is caused by the speed of the color wheel and is seen by some, but not all people.
Jedirun's Avatar Jedirun 01:39 PM 04-24-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcfoo View Post

Moire is caused by optical interference between pixel structure and screen weave, and can ruin a picture. Rainbow effect is caused by the speed of the color wheel and is seen by some, but not all people.

Yes. When I mentioned them together above I was referring to the the they guy at the store saying that the AT screen would cause rainbows which of course makes no sense, so someone figured that he must be referring to moire.
chriscmore's Avatar chriscmore 03:17 PM 04-25-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by microsup View Post

Question to Chris, or any one who knows. Is there is a way to wash screen fabric. Lets say in a chance you have it marked with children dirty hands or something else like coke drops. After wash will it shrink, can I iron it. Or Dry clean? How easy to clean it and what is the best way?

You can easily wash the screen fabric with mild cleaners and soap and water. The vinyl extrusion over the threads means it won't care about water, however vinyl doesn't like heat or folding. So if the common vacuum brush maintenence doesn't clean what you need, spot cleaning is easy.

Cheers,
Chris
microsup's Avatar microsup 07:00 AM 04-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post


You can easily wash the screen fabric with mild cleaners and soap and water. The vinyl extrusion over the threads means it won't care about water, however vinyl doesn't like heat or folding. So if the common vacuum brush maintenence doesn't clean what you need, spot cleaning is easy.

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks Chris. By the way got your sample, gonna test it tonight. I noticed that one side of the fabric much smoother then other. Is there a difference which one is a face one?
chriscmore's Avatar chriscmore 08:24 AM 04-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by microsup View Post

Thanks Chris. By the way got your sample, gonna test it tonight. I noticed that one side of the fabric much smoother then other. Is there a difference which one is a face one?

Both sides spec the same, so you can use whichever side you prefer. However, we prefer the less-smooth side for its performance in retractables. For fixed and DIY, we put that side on the inside surface of the roll so we can inspect for blemishes.

Cheers,
Chris
Spirit84's Avatar Spirit84 07:51 AM 04-28-2011
Because I am so new to this I am really having some issues figuring out what to do.
Here is my situation:
My ceiling height is 7 feet (84").
My room width is 14 feet (168")
Unfortunately there is an I-Beam obstruction 10" from the top of the ceiling:
84-10 = 74" open space
If I build a frame around the I-beam and then build another matching box frame on the other side then I could hang a retractable screen from the frame.
I was thinking about a 110" inch screen - 16x9:
Total height of screen including case: 67.4"
So: 74 - 67.4 = 6.6" from the bottom of the screen to the floor.
I will be sitting 15-16 feet from the screen on one level only.
Is this too low to the floor?
Alternatively, if I go for a 2.35-1 the numbers would be as follows:
74 - 52.6 = 21.4" to the floor
What concerns me about the 2.35 screen is that becasue I am new to this I am not sure how regular 16x9 TV will appear on the screen. Any comments would really help.
Also; and this one I am really not sure about, where does the subject about curved screens come into the discussion with a retractable screen. Is this an issue?
Also, because I would be hanging the screen from a boxed wooden frame could this cause some vibration/rattling issues. I am only thinking about this because I am not hanging from a solid ceiling joist.
I hope I have made all this clear.
deromax's Avatar deromax 08:22 AM 04-28-2011
Spirit84, I'd go with a 2.35 screen as you are height limited. 16:9 content will use the center part of the screen, pillar-boxed. That is, with black space on both sides of the actual image. In a light-controled room this is a non-issue.

To facilitate the use of a 2.35 screen, I'd recommand a projector with a lens memory system, like the Panasonic PT-AE4000.

To my knowledge, curved screen cannot be had in a retractable form. If this is a dedicated entertainment space, a fixed screen should be fine!

Good luck
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi 09:43 AM 04-28-2011
so is everyone using the "rough" side?
premiertrussman's Avatar premiertrussman 05:03 PM 05-05-2011
Whom or where did i need to contact at seymour av to get a small sample of the XD material?
StevenC56's Avatar StevenC56 08:46 PM 05-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

Whom or where did i need to contact at seymour av to get a small sample of the XD material?

chris@s-se.us
premiertrussman's Avatar premiertrussman 06:09 AM 05-06-2011
:-) thx
microsup's Avatar microsup 06:57 AM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

so is everyone using the "rough" side?

As Chris answered to my question that they use smooth for fixed and rough for retractable.
microsup's Avatar microsup 07:03 AM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by microsup View Post


As Chris answered to my question that they use smooth for fixed and rough for retractable.

I tried it on test sample and saw no difference. The only what I saw is a moire but when I rotate a sample I found that moire dissapears after certain angle.
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi 08:21 AM 05-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by microsup View Post

I tried it on test sample and saw no difference. The only what I saw is a moire but when I rotate a sample I found that moire dissapears after certain angle.

Hopefully that angle is less than 20.....
mutheater's Avatar mutheater 07:44 AM 05-11-2011
I purchased a fixed frame XD screen from Chris a few months ago to use with my Epson 8350. I love the screen...my first row of seats is about 11-12 ft from the screen and the weave is not noticeable.

Prior to getting the XD screen, I purchased a less expensive brand from Amazon because I didn't know much about screens at the time and they had a easy return policy. Ugh, the pattern in the AT fabric was visible for 18 ft away so it was returned.

I have to say that everything from the packaging, sturdiness of the frame, ease of assemble and picture quality on the XD was superior.

If you are considering an AT screen, I think you will be happy with the XD and find Chris provides great customer service....even if you have a 1,000 questions like I did. ;-)
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 12:05 PM 05-15-2011
Visited SeymourAV website and noticed curved screens are now offered! Great!!!!

I would assume that custom curvature is an option....ie. matching radius to projector throw and quirks with specific machines.

In addition, manual masking panels are offered to match the curved screen............I wonder how much "barrel" 1.78 artifact is viewable using this alternative masking option. Can the manual panels be made AT........how much debbers are lost using the masking panels? Questions I ponder........

Have to research the throw distances and pincushion artifacts and of course barrel effect in 1.78........
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi 01:26 PM 05-15-2011
finished mounting my XD material to my DIY frame it looks awesome! I will say it's harder than I thought it would be to get the screen taught without any bunching or wrinkles.....

One question: the material is tight enough to pull the wrinkles out, I tightened it as much as I could with the attachment method I chose. I used the screen track and spline attachment method. The subs are behind an acoustically transparent wall, will I notice the screen material waving at all with the subs behind there playing?


yourtoys7's Avatar yourtoys7 06:25 PM 05-15-2011
That looks awesome, what size is the screen?
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi 04:06 AM 05-16-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourtoys7 View Post

That looks awesome, what size is the screen?

Thanks!

120" diag 2.37. Oh, almost forgot, the best suggestion I almost didn't take was letting them cut it on the 20 deg angle. if it weren't already cut I don't know if I would have been so successful.
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