The official SeymourAV center stage screen thread! - Page 56 - AVS Forum
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post #1651 of 2809 Old 04-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by adude View Post

Dang, and I just bought XD mateial last week. Oh well.

I compared both and went with the XD Material. There's no advantage to the 4K material unless you are 8ft from the screen or less. Otherwise XD holds a better image IMO. I couldn't be happier.

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post #1652 of 2809 Old 04-03-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by adude View Post

I have a question about backing to be used behind a screen. I read in another thread that if we use white backing behind AT screen, it helps with the screen gain. does that makes sense, instead of using black? I want to do approx 128" wide, 16:9 screen, so brightness is quite important for me.

Also, has anyone here used black muslin as the backing? It would be interesting to hear the experience.

If you purchase EN4k, it comes with black backing. I don't know what it does to contrast to have white or black. I have a good black background behind my screen so I didn't use the black backing (this advice has previously been given by Chris in this thread). I didn't want any extra audio attenuation. The problem is, since you cut the EN4k to only 1/4" outside the frame, if you make a decision, I guess you are stuck with it, or risk not having enough extra fabric to change your mind.

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post #1653 of 2809 Old 04-03-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

If you purchase EN4k, it comes with black backing. I don't know what it does to contrast to have white or black. I have a good black background behind my screen so I didn't use the black backing (this advice has previously been given by Chris in this thread). I didn't want any extra audio attenuation. The problem is, since you cut the EN4k to only 1/4" outside the frame, if you make a decision, I guess you are stuck with it, or risk not having enough extra fabric to change your mind.

+1 on not using the black backing if you have a black rear wall and have spent the time to make sure everything is flat black and non-reflective back there.

I don't quite understand the rest of your statement though... please interpret. The stuck and change your mind parts...
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post #1654 of 2809 Old 04-03-2012, 01:50 PM
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This chatter about the SE Craftsman installer package is interesting, though its not clear to me whether its available directly only from SE or also thru Seymour-SE. Chris?
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post #1655 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I compared both and went with the XD Material. There's no advantage to the 4K material unless you are 8ft from the screen or less. Otherwise XD holds a better image IMO. I couldn't be happier.

Hi Tony,

Please elaborate further on your comparison!

I will be sitting 11 to 12ft from a 120" wide (130" diagonal) Scope Screen in a totally light controlled room.

Thanks!


...Glenn
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post #1656 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adude View Post

I have a question about backing to be used behind a screen. I read in another thread that if we use white backing behind AT screen, it helps with the screen gain. does that makes sense, instead of using black? I want to do approx 128" wide, 16:9 screen, so brightness is quite important for me.

Also, has anyone here used black muslin as the backing? It would be interesting to hear the experience.

Using a white backing behind an AT screen can help with brightness, but it ruins the on-screen contrast ratio and sharpness with light contamination. Try a checkerboard pattern with and without to see the differences. Not recommended.

Anything black behind the screen will optically work. Muslin isn't very acoustically transparent, however. Perhaps cut out around the speakers so it's effectively just a removable version of a black paint job?

Chris

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post #1657 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHorn View Post

This chatter about the SE Craftsman installer package is interesting, though its not clear to me whether its available directly only from SE or also thru Seymour-SE. Chris?

The Craftsman series isn't available in North America. In 2010, I instead reduced the pricing of the fixed frame by 20 to 50% to make it the obvious value among its retail competitors here.

Cheers,
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post #1658 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 09:39 AM
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Chris, can you PM me pricing for a RF 120 HD and an RF 150 WS? I want to compare pricing between the XD material and the 4K. I would not need the black backing the the 4K material as the space behind the screen will be blacked out.

I'm thinking of going with the wide screen to better future proof my purchase. I will more than likely run my screen in 16:9 and order a set of masking panels also.
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post #1659 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

Hi Tony,

Please elaborate further on your comparison!

I will be sitting 11 to 12ft from a 120" wide (130" diagonal) Scope Screen in a totally light controlled room.

Thanks!


...Glenn


Which projector?

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post #1660 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 10:44 AM
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Hi Tony,

I don't know about Glenn, but for me it will be the Epson 5010/6010. I'm also interested in more details about your comparison.

Thanks,

Chuck

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post #1661 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

which projector?


jvc rs45
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post #1662 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 12:00 PM
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The image on the XD material had more pop and was more vibrant vs the E4k IMO. The 4k material did not seem to retain as much light as the XD. As for the physical material, the 4K seem to delicate and easy to snag or tear. The XD was pretty strong and closer to a tradional screen material.

I would suggest ordering a 24x24 sample of each from Chris. It's enough material to give you a good idea on what results you can expect from your projector. For me, unless I'm 8ft or less, XD all the way.

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post #1663 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 12:47 PM
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Thanks for the response Tony... Nothing like a real world subjective experience!

My real concern has always been the XD's weave visibility from my proposed 11 to 12 foot seating distance!

The bit of extra gain that the XD has over the 4k can certainly help and the price of the XD is much less expensive than the 4k... YIKES!


...Glenn
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post #1664 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDUpstate View Post

+1 on not using the black backing if you have a black rear wall and have spent the time to make sure everything is flat black and non-reflective back there.

I don't quite understand the rest of your statement though... please interpret. The stuck and change your mind parts...

Ok, what I meant was the Screen Excellence instructions tell you to cut the material so you only leave 1/4" after you put the fabric in the frame with the spatula. If you do that, without the black backing, you are probably cutting it tighter than it would be with the black backing because instead of having 2 layers in the frame you only have one. You may not have enough left to spatula in 2 layers of fabric if you cut it using the 1 layer as a guide.

But now I am told by Chris that he doesn't recommend cutting it anyway...so its a moot point and anyone with a EN4k should consider taping the extra instead of cutting anyway!

Matt
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post #1665 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

The image on the XD material had more pop and was more vibrant vs the E4k IMO. The 4k material did not seem to retain as much light as the XD. As for the physical material, the 4K seem to delicate and easy to snag or tear. The XD was pretty strong and closer to a tradional screen material.

I would suggest ordering a 24x24 sample of each from Chris. It's enough material to give you a good idea on what results you can expect from your projector. For me, unless I'm 8ft or less, XD all the way.

I went with the EN4K for future proofing. You're absolutely correct in that XD is brighter...I believe I posted a pretty god picture of the difference a few pages back.

One of the things I did notice is that the XD was a little annoying on white scenes
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post #1666 of 2809 Old 04-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post


Ok, what I meant was the Screen Excellence instructions tell you to cut the material so you only leave 1/4" after you put the fabric in the frame with the spatula. If you do that, without the black backing, you are probably cutting it tighter than it would be with the black backing because instead of having 2 layers in the frame you only have one. You may not have enough left to spatula in 2 layers of fabric if you cut it using the 1 layer as a guide.

But now I am told by Chris that he doesn't recommend cutting it anyway...so its a moot point and anyone with a EN4k should consider taping the extra instead of cutting anyway!

I didn't tape or cut or anything. Just left it there... it was only about 1 or 2" all around anyway.
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post #1667 of 2809 Old 04-05-2012, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Miller View Post

http://www.screenexcellence.com/products/craftsman.html

"The Craftsman is only for skilled installers"......

How skilled are we???

Chuck

With a clean floor and clean hands I think most amateurs would be able to install it. But naturally, SE needs to make this disclaimer because there is absolutely some risks of getting it wrong. The fabric is delicate and must be treated correspondingly.
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post #1668 of 2809 Old 04-05-2012, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I compared both and went with the XD Material. There's no advantage to the 4K material unless you are 8ft from the screen or less. Otherwise XD holds a better image IMO. I couldn't be happier.

My viewing distance was the main motivation for me too - in selecting the EN4K material. About 7-8 ft. I think you're absolutely right in suggesting that the viewing distance is used as the criteria. The XD has more gain as well.
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post #1669 of 2809 Old 04-05-2012, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post


My real concern has always been the XD's weave visibility from my proposed 11 to 12 foot seating distance!


...Glenn

No visible weaving at 11ft. I started to notice some slight weaving on white images about 9ft or so.

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post #1670 of 2809 Old 04-05-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I compared both and went with the XD Material. There's no advantage to the 4K material unless you are 8ft from the screen or less. Otherwise XD holds a better image IMO. I couldn't be happier.

That may vary a bit with visual accuity, but overall I agree with Tony's observations in his posts here. XD is a terrific screen for larger/farther viewing distances. It's my go-to for those rooms.

I also recently took a close look at Elite's new 4K material. It's nice, but like all 4K materials I've seen so far, it doesn't have the gain of XD. If you can sit farther than 8'-10', XD is terrific for 4K or 2K.
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post #1671 of 2809 Old 04-07-2012, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post


I also recently took a close look at Elite's new 4K material. It's nice, but like all 4K materials I've seen so far, it doesn't have the gain of XD. If you can sit farther than 8'-10', XD is terrific for 4K or 2K.

Very happy to read these reports. Soon to install my 130" wide XD screen. Front row is at 11-12 feet, back row 5 feet behind that. Can't wait to start watching scope movies the way they're supposed to be seen!
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post #1672 of 2809 Old 04-08-2012, 01:58 PM
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ARGH! My new Seymour-Screen Excellence EN4k motorized screen just jammed up while opening. About half way through the opening cycle, one side continued to drop while the other bound up. I stopped the motor as quickly as I could but now I have the stuck side 1/3 of the way open and crinkled up while the other side is 1/2-to-2/3rds of the way open. Briefly toggling the motor between open and closed makes it clear the motor is working but fails to unjam the screen. Gently tugging on the tab-tensioning wire on the jammed side doesn't accomplish anything either. I've left a voice mail for Chris. Any other suggestions?

Happy Trails!
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post #1673 of 2809 Old 04-08-2012, 06:23 PM
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Has anyone attempted a gray xD screen (via spraying, or....???) ???
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post #1674 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post

Has anyone attempted a gray xD screen (via spraying, or....???) ???

No. But I strongly suspect that any coating on ANY AT screen (fabric or perf) will negatively impact the audio characteristics. I suppose one could be sprayed (but for what purpose?) if it were not being used as an AT screen.
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post #1675 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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There are companies that make gray AT screens. For perforated screens Stewart is a great choice with many materials available in their micro-perf, for a weave screen look at Vutec's Greydove Soundscreen material.

If you are looking for just the material that might be more difficult, I'm not sure if Vutec will sell the material only. You'd have to call and find out.
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post #1676 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 04:47 PM
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Anyone heard from Chris? I have sent several emails over the last few days trying to place my order and have gotten no response since the first reply with the price quote.

Chris if your reading this please double check your spam or junk folder, there are likely 3 emails from me (Scott)
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post #1677 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post

Has anyone attempted a gray xD screen (via spraying, or....???) ???

If you just want darker, put on some sunglasses. Gray screens just darken everything down. While we could use gray threads (even though getting their color temperature accurate is very tricky), I'm not sure what it would accomplish. The worst ones are the ones that just alternative white and gray threads: lower FtL, much more texture - those give AT screens a bad name.

The only AT screen that would visually accomplish something - ambient light rejection - is the Stewart Firehawk. Just make sure you're sitting far enough back, and think twice about doing that to the audio. It's ~90% NON-AT.

The S-SE Enlightor-4K is technically a light gray since it's gain is under unity. Let me know if you need samples.

Cheers,
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post #1678 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoSport View Post

Anyone heard from Chris? I have sent several emails over the last few days trying to place my order and have gotten no response since the first reply with the price quote.

Chris if your reading this please double check your spam or junk folder, there are likely 3 emails from me (Scott)

Emails replied to. Catching back up from Easter break...

Cheers,
Chris

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post #1679 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 07:49 PM
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I will be using sunglasses -- for 3-D.

I'm looking at a 96" screen. If my wife gets rainbowed out with the DLP I like, we'll swap it out for an Epson 3010. And the Epson guys are talking about deploying Neutral Density filters with screens under 100". Having seen how bright that guy is on a 190-inch wall, I can see why.

However, to me it makes more sense to darken the screen than to throttle down the projector. You end up with reduced light in either case, but the darker screen will be -- well, blacker in response to ambient or reflected light.

My guess would be that if you used a thinned-down gray enamel spray on the xD, you might only need to punch the Treble pre-emphasis shelf up one tick to compensate. Maybe I'll ask for a small sample to test this, as I doubt there are enough customers in the sub-100-inch-with-light-cannon category to warrant actual production runs and inventory.
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post #1680 of 2809 Old 04-09-2012, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post

I will be using sunglasses -- for 3-D.

I'm looking at a 96" screen. If my wife gets rainbowed out with the DLP I like, we'll swap it out for an Epson 3010. And the Epson guys are talking about deploying Neutral Density filters with screens under 100". Having seen how bright that guy is on a 190-inch wall, I can see why.

However, to me it makes more sense to darken the screen than to throttle down the projector. You end up with reduced light in either case, but the darker screen will be -- well, blacker in response to ambient or reflected light.

My guess would be that if you used a thinned-down gray enamel spray on the xD, you might only need to punch the Treble pre-emphasis shelf up one tick to compensate. Maybe I'll ask for a small sample to test this, as I doubt there are enough customers in the sub-100-inch-with-light-cannon category to warrant actual production runs and inventory.

The E4k Material with a black backing gives the screen a grayish tint. I wouldn't spray the XD material. That sounds insane

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