Don Stewart, which screen with the Sharp 9000? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 86 Old 10-23-2001, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Don, which screen would you suggest with the Sharp 9000? Ambient light is no problem and it will be used mostly with DVDs.

Thanks,
Skip
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post #2 of 86 Old 10-23-2001, 06:17 PM
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Dear Set,

In order to make the proper screen selection for a particular projector and room, please

indicate the following.

1. Desired screen size and aspect ratio.

2. If projector is going to be ceiling mounted or floor mounted.

3. Ambient light conditions. (I know...You have already stated a dark environment but other people will be reading this also)

4. Room finish. Wall, ceiling and floor covering colors. ( This is more important than most people realize. It helps approximate the room's light cross reflection characteristics. This can reduce image contrast considerably).

5. Approximate Throw distance. Throw distance is very important when using a screen with gain. The longer the throw distance, the more uniform the image will be in the extreme corners and sides of the screen. This is simply because the incident light will be striking the screen corners more in parallel with the center of the screen.



Please note that I have not had the pleasure to view and, more importantly, measure light output/ contrast, on the new Sharp 9000 projector. I can say that the reviews on this forum have been very good. I look forward to getting one in my hands.

Regards,

Don
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post #3 of 86 Old 10-23-2001, 06:47 PM
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Don,

Here are my answers. I'm also pursuing screen options for the 9000.

Quote:
1. Desired screen size and aspect ratio.
Screen size: 52"x92" (106" diagonal)
Aspect ratio: 16:9

Quote:
2. If projector is going to be ceiling mounted or floor mounted.
Ceiling mounted

Quote:
3. Ambient light conditions. (I know...You have already stated a dark environment but other people will be reading this also)
Completely light controlled 90% of the time. Want to be able to turn up lights enough to see guests' faces and the popcorn bowl 10% of the time.

Quote:
4. Room finish. Wall, ceiling and floor covering colors. ( This is more important than most people realize. It helps approximate the room's light cross reflection characteristics. This can reduce image contrast considerably).
Ceiling: 12" white acoustical tiles
Walls: Light "tannish yellow" drywall
Floor: Beige wall-to-wall carpeting

Quote:
5. Approximate Throw distance. Throw distance is very important when using a screen with gain. The longer the throw distance, the more uniform the image will be in the extreme corners and sides of the screen. This is simply because the incident light will be striking the screen corners more in parallel with the center of the screen.
18 feet

Thanks!
Matt
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post #4 of 86 Old 10-24-2001, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply, Don.

The specifics are:

1. 72" wide 16x9

2. Ceiling mount

3. Mostly night time viewing. Heavy curtains over the windows. Very little ambient light.

4. The floor is medium brown, wall to wall carpeting. The ceiling is white and the walls are a med. tan, straw-like wallpaper.

5. Throw distance will be around 14-15'.

Thanks.
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post #5 of 86 Old 10-28-2001, 12:27 AM
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Hi Don. I like the others mentioned above will be pursuing the Sharp XV-=Z9000. Hopefully you will have one soon to do your mesurements.


Quote:
1. Desired screen size and aspect ratio.
Size- 92"
Aspect ratio: 16:9

Quote:
2. If projector is going to be ceiling mounted or floor mounted.
Ceiling

Quote:
3. Ambient light conditions. (I know...You have already stated a dark environment but other people will be reading this also)
No light in the room at all. Totally blacked out using Black out curtains.

Quote:
4. Room finish. Wall, ceiling and floor covering colors. ( This is more important than most people realize. It helps approximate the room's light cross reflection characteristics. This can reduce image contrast considerably)
Ceiling- White/Cream Concrete
Floor- Carpet Dark Blue Wall to Wall
Walls- White/Cream plastered wall from the ceiling to half way, and then timber brown from the half way point to the floor.

Quote:
5. Approximate Throw distance. Throw distance is very important when using a screen with gain. The longer the throw distance, the more uniform the image will be in the extreme corners and sides of the screen. This is simply because the incident light will be striking the screen corners more in parallel with the center of the screen.
Throw distance 4.5 Meters (14-15 Feet)

Thanks,
Spero D.
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post #6 of 86 Old 10-28-2001, 01:41 AM
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Hi Don!

Thanks much for taking the time to answer this question. I have a rather non-ideal environment, so your advice is much appreciated.

Quote:
1. Desired screen size and aspect ratio.
106" - 120" diagonal 16x9

Quote:
2. If projector is going to be ceiling mounted or floor mounted.
Ceiling. I will be using the Sharp's "image shift" feature, as the projector will not be able to be significantly lower than the top edge of the screen.

Quote:
3. Ambient light conditions. (I know...You have already stated a dark environment but other people will be reading this also)
For movies, we should be able to make it quite dark. However, we also intend to watch television on this system, so it needs to be usable in brighter conditions. "Dimly lit" is the only way I can think to describe it.

Quote:
4. Room finish. Wall, ceiling and floor covering colors. ( This is more important than most people realize. It helps approximate the room's light cross reflection characteristics. This can reduce image contrast considerably).
Off-white walls. Beige carpet. We're renting, so we don't have a lot of flexibility on this point. Drilling the holes for the ceiling mount is right at the limits of acceptability.

Quote:
5. Approximate Throw distance.
Approximately 15-16 feet.

I've "inherited" a Videomatte 200 screen which I will use for starters, but I may be able to replace the screen material down the line if there's a better fit.

Best,
--Mike

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post #7 of 86 Old 10-28-2001, 07:52 AM
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Gentlemen,

I am sorry that I have not been able to respond quickly. I have be having a little bout with kidney stones and ended up in surgery this last Thursday evening.

Mr Set.... with the screen size that you stated, I would use a .95 gain GrayHawk. If the specs that Sharp has published are fairly close to being real, then you will have over 37 Foot Lamberts in the 800 lumen setting and about 28 Foot Lamberts in the 600 Lumen theater mode. You will also be able to have some "down lighting" over the seating area with minimum impact on the screen image. Even if the Sharp 9000 does not have the horse power as advertised your set up

has a lot of head room for a lower output projector.

As for the others (with much larger screen sizes) who have asked for my opinion on screen selection, I would prefer to get a Sharp 9000 into our facility and do some actual testing. When I get back to the office this Monday we will put the call out to try to secure a 9000 for study. In the meantime, keep reading forum member reviews and note what type and size of screen that they have seen the the Sharp 9000 displayed on.

Regards,

Don
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post #8 of 86 Old 10-28-2001, 09:56 AM
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It's a far tougher man than I that desribes kidney stone surgery as a "little bout". Hope you're recovering well.

Push the fluids.
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post #9 of 86 Old 10-28-2001, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Don.
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post #10 of 86 Old 10-29-2001, 05:42 PM
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Thanks, and speedy recovery!

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post #11 of 86 Old 11-06-2001, 03:13 PM
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Don,

Any guess as to when you'll have Sharp 9000 results for us? My projector arrives on Thursday and I've got nothing to project it on!

Thanks for looking into this for us!
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post #12 of 86 Old 11-06-2001, 05:57 PM
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Well...its Tuesday, Nov 6th, almost 6:00 PST and the Sharp was suppose to be here today.
I checked the dock at 5:00 and it did not arrive.
We will call Sharp in the morning to ask were the unit is.
Regards,
Don

PS: I was just informed by one of our staff that Sharp did call and advised us that the unit did ship Monday, via 2 day air.
It sounds like we may have it sometime in the morning.
Don
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post #13 of 86 Old 11-06-2001, 10:26 PM
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Don I'm looking forward to your figures and your impressions on the Sharp XV-Z9000.

Spero D.
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post #14 of 86 Old 11-07-2001, 06:31 AM
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FYI.

I have a dealer here in Switzerland that has a Stewart Screen that is half Grayhawk and half Studiotek 130!
I might be going over some times this week...
Incase Don hasn't posted his "verdict" I'll try and give a few impressions.


Cheers

Anthony
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post #15 of 86 Old 11-07-2001, 07:00 AM
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hi tony-v,

I'm also from Switzerland and like to see this Stewart split screen.
who has it?

thanks

Stergios Fikatas
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post #16 of 86 Old 11-07-2001, 07:17 PM
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Gentlemen,

I spent about 3 hours with the Sharp today. We took light output, on/off contrast ratios, and color temp measurements.

Please give me 24 hours to summarize the data and I will report back to you.

Thank you for your patience.

Don
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post #17 of 86 Old 11-07-2001, 09:16 PM
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Don cant wait to see your results. Will you have the unit for a while to see what the globe dims down to after a 100 hours of use?

Spero D.
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post #18 of 86 Old 11-08-2001, 12:58 AM
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Hello Stergios

The dealer in Switzerland is Mr. Reto Wäffler from www.homecinema.ch

He has everything set-up......give him a call


Cheers


Anthony
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post #19 of 86 Old 11-08-2001, 04:05 AM
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thanks Tony-v,

I was thinking it is homecinema, so I might also going over some time next week. where you come from? I'm from Biel/Bienne.

cheers

Stergios
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post #20 of 86 Old 11-08-2001, 02:59 PM
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Don,

curious to know if you just measured the projector's performance specs or if you (subjectively) viewed it on a wide array of screen types/sizes??

we patiently await...

-dave

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #21 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 12:30 AM
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this forum is so great!! :-)

Don

Have you checked different types of dvds, such as Vertical Limit ( bright, colorful) or Dark City ( a nightmare for lcd, so dlp should do better ) ? By any chance, any live concert dvds, also very difficult for digital projectors ( lcd) ?

The screen you used is the Stewart 0.5mm microperfated screen, right? Which perforations density does it have ?

thanks so much and can't wait to see your results! This is an honor!

regards
David
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post #22 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 02:55 AM
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@Stergios

BTW Fischer-Hifi in Altwies is having a shoot-out!
They are displaying the Sharp 9000, Sony VW11 and Sony VW10 next to each other.......


I'm from Horgen close to Zürich....


Cheers

Anthony
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post #23 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 07:59 AM
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Give us the shoot-out scoop ASAP!

-dave ;)

p.s. little doubt how it will shake out, but would love to hear the details

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #24 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 08:37 AM
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Don

can you do screenshots too ? I'm pushy :D

A good 120" Stewart microperforated with some gain would be a killer combo with the Sharp maybe.

best
David
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post #25 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 12:44 PM
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Oooo...screenshots...oooooo.

Yes Don...please indulge us...and no sermons about how we can't judge image quality results from screenshots posted on web pages...we know that...we just want to ooohhh and ahhhh ;)

It's Friday afternoon and i won't have access all weekend! Oh well, I'm learning patience!

-dave

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #26 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 04:58 PM
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Gentlemen,

Please be advised that the following is not, I repeat not, a projector review. You can find plenty subjective reviews on the Sharp 9000 and other projectors through out this forum and other industry media. Stewart Filmscreen's objective is to evaluate the projector's light related functions for the sole purpose of making a logical screen surface choice with the appropriate screen size to match a particular light engine. Also, please keep in mind that our testing procedures differ considerably from most projector manufactures. Many projector manufactures measure the incident light coming directly out of the projector. Our test procedures measure the incident light after it has been diffused on a lab standard, MGC03, which gives us real world workable data.

The sometimes-significant difference between our test results and the projector manufacture specifications are primary due to completely different testing procedures.



Projector: Sharp 9000 single chip DLP, 16 by 9 native aspect ratio.

Lamp hours as tested: 86

Throw distance as tested: 2.1 x image width.



Note: All readings are at factory default settings unless stated otherwise.

Test 1.

Projector lamp setting: High.

Gamma setting: Normal

Lumens: 437

On/off CR: 553 to 1

Color Temp: 9438 Kelvin

Test 2.

Projector lamp setting: High.

Gamma setting: Gamma 1

Lumens: 531

On/off CR: 671 to 1

Color Temp: 9346 Kelvin

Test 3.

Projector lamp setting: Low.

Gamma setting: Gamma 1

Lumens: 324

On/off CR: 562.5 to 1

Color Temp: (did not test)



Note: The following test was made with adjustments as stated.

Test 4.

Projector lamp setting: High.

Gamma setting: Gamma 1, Color Temp(-2), slight increase with Red menu adjustment, slight decrease with Blue menu adjustment.

Lumens: 417

Color Temp: 6516 Kelvin

Test 5.

Maximum light output: 728 lumens,

Gamma 1, Color temp (+3),

Menu contrast (+21)



The Sharp 9000 is compatible with Micro-perforated screens when the image width exceeds 88 inches. When screen widths are less than 88 inches, it is highly recommened to use a non-perforated screen as moire artifacts can occur.



Notes: A pleasant surprise that we encountered is when we went to the low lamp setting as shown in Test 3. With the lower light output, we were fully expecting the on/off contrast ratio to be at least the same, or even higher, than when the lamp was in its higher power setting. This was not the case. You can run this projector in its bright mode and contrast will increase, not decrease, as I have found with many other projectors tested.

This single chip dlp projector is actually a little brighter than other dlp projectors we have tested. The contrast ratios are exceptional for a digital display device. I also found the menu was well designed and easy to navigate. The projector's internal scaler produces an extremely smooth image. In fact, I would say itÃs the best onboard scaler I have seen to date.This unit is truly plug and play.

We found that we could get the best performance with both light output and contrast ratios by employing the Gamma 1 setting. This projector should be displayed with the lamp in the high output position.



Subjective Screen Evaluation.

After conducting the sterol light test its time to let eyeball take over

and watch DVD images on different screen materials. For this task

we selected a 100 inch (87" by 49") screen frame and watched selected scenes on different screen surfaces. With the projector set up at 6500 degrees and contrast ratios well in excess of 600 to 1, the projected images took on a truly film like look. The first screen we evaluated was the .95 Gain GrayHawk. We were getting 13 foot lambaste of white light, or about the same as a good commercial movie theater. The color saturation was better than what I see at the local theatersÆ’.it was breathing taking. I had to constantly remind myself that I was not watching the 9-inch Barco CRT projector thatÃs bolted directly above my seat. The next screen was the standard Studiotek 130. The image foot lamberts increased to over 18 and the contrast was still outstanding in the completely darkened

theater room. The perceived color saturation was slightly less than the GrayHawk. The next test was a split screen of Studiotek 130 and GrayHawk. At this point we slowly increase the ambient light level in the theater. We are now projecting a black and white ansi checkerboard pattern. With 2 foot candles of ambient light directly hitting the screen the GrayHawk image is still very watchable. The black squares on Studiotek start to lose their depth.



Note: Screen recommendations to be continued. I have to be somewhere in a few minutes. I did promise to some forum members I would get the projector test data up today, so I am posting the info now.

Regards,

Don



Ok...back to screen evaluation.

We then pulled back the projector back to make a 9 foot wide image. We also turned the lights back to full darkness. We brought in some new fabric that had been only in development since Cedia. We were very impressed.

The prototype material has a little more gain than the Studiotek but held the black levels like the GrayHawk. The manufacturing process is now being refined to get repeatable results.

Summary. If the screen size does not exceed 100 inches, and you have some ambient light or room cross reflection, I prefer the GrayHawk. If you screen is over larger than 100 inches I think more screen gain is in order. The Studiotek works great here but you will want to keep stray light off the screen. If you are looking for a screen in the 120†size and have ambient light or a dark room with very light walls you may want to hold off for 60 days or so. I think we will have the larger screen issue for single chip dlp projectors solved.

Regards,

Don
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post #27 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 05:19 PM
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Don great evaluation. I'm am glad the Sharp impressed you so much which means a lot to me. I look forward to your continuation when you return.

Spero D.
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post #28 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 06:07 PM
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Thanks again Don. I got my Sharp on Thursday and it is great to have an "expert" agree with my eyeball opinion...:)

I am waiting for my AVS HTPC and an NRS and about to order a GreyHawk...I figure at that point, I will have a killer system (and a killer credit card bill)...:)

But just getting the projector and using it on my DYI screen, I am very happy (with everything but the NTSC/DSS material)...

-Jon

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post #29 of 86 Old 11-09-2001, 06:20 PM
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Hi Don,

Thanks for the info, I'm wondering about a 96" wide Grayhawk Microperf.

I'm wondering if it will be too dim..

Thanks,

-- Cain
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post #30 of 86 Old 11-10-2001, 12:14 AM
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Mr. Stewart,

Thank you for taking the time to post the above results.

I would like to know if for your main viewing you used test#4, which was very close to 6500 Kelvin?
In regard to test #4, I understand that Col Tem was set to (-2), and the Gamma to Gamma 1, leaving the projector lamp at high.

What exactly did you do in the user menu to adjust things further, in regards to brightness, contrast and color? And finally, what were the contrast readings you got on test #4?
Thanx
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