Carada New Masking System - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 613 Old 12-30-2008, 06:39 AM
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Cool drawing Drexler! And I'll certainly keep it in mind when working on the Masquerade CIH, but just remember that there are MANY factors to consider when designing a product for sale on the market, like ease of installation, reliability/durability, shipping configuration/costs, features as compared to competitive products, quiet operation, aesthetic appearance, etc. So any design will have to optimize all of those factors as much as possible.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution, and if we do use your design I'll be needing your shipping address.

David Giles
Carada, Inc.

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post #452 of 613 Old 12-30-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles View Post

Cool drawing Drexler! And I'll certainly keep it in mind when working on the Masquerade CIH, but just remember that there are MANY factors to consider when designing a product for sale on the market, like ease of installation, reliability/durability, shipping configuration/costs, features as compared to competitive products, quiet operation, aesthetic appearance, etc. So any design will have to optimize all of those factors as much as possible.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution, and if we do use your design I'll be needing your shipping address.

David Giles
Carada, Inc.

Thanks for the kind words! I realize there is a lot of aspects to consider. Often though the simpler you make it, the easier the installation and assembly, the lesser things can go wrong and the cheaper it will be, right?

I didnt really get why you want to have individual control of the sides? What reason is there to not have the picture at the center? Do your competitors have this feature? (just being curious here)

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see what you come up with. I would love to have a motorized CIH masking, but the pricing has to be reasonable. The current Masquerade is at the limit for me and if the CIH would be significantly more expensive I just have to settle with a manual masking (like for instance velvet covered styrofoam panels with magnets).

I was considering building my own motorized system (hence my design plan). However, it would be a lot of work to make one that looks good also with lights on. I would need to order custom made aluminum frames to cover the mechanics for example, in addition to finding the right motor, right velvet, IR control, get help to make a program controlling the motor and presets, maybe a break system etc. etc. A lot of work for one screen.

Maybe you come up with an affordable CIH system in the future (or even use my design )? I would certainly be interested! Keep us posted and good luck!
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post #453 of 613 Old 12-30-2008, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

I didnt really get why you want to have individual control of the sides? What reason is there to not have the picture at the center? Do your competitors have this feature? (just being curious here)

Yes most of our competitors' CIH masking systems do have individual control of each side mask, which allows you to offset the open portion of the screen to account for inaccurately authored DVDs. Having a motor for each side also has some engineering advantages (at least in my mind).

Quote:


I would love to have a motorized CIH masking, but the pricing has to be reasonable.

"Reasonable" is a relative term. I just got off the phone with a customer who got a quote from another company for a CIH masking system (with screen) similar to the type of future Carada system I've been describing. It retailed for $13K. Our system will be incredibly "reasonable" compared to that. On the other hand it may seem "unreasonable" when compared to the raw material costs of a homemade masking system (whether automated or just static velvet-covered foam panels). But we wouldn't be in business very long if we worried about that, and neither would Stewart, Screen Research, SMX, etc. etc.

In any case, when our CIH system does eventually hit the market, if it's over your budget I will totally understand, and in that case I would strongly encourage you to make your own masking (static panels will work but a fully automated system adds a whole other dimension of Cool Factor). As far as I know, no one who has ever used masking (whether homemade or professionally designed and built) has ever regretted it.

Quote:


Keep us posted and good luck!

Thanks Drexler!

David Giles
Carada, Inc.

WWW.CARADA.COM

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post #454 of 613 Old 12-30-2008, 03:37 PM
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This post is for anyone following this thread who has even a modicum of interest in a CIH masking system (with panels that slide in and out from the sides). I've already said more than I wish I had about a future product that is barely more than an idea at this point. We have a LOT of work to do before such a system will be ready for market and I frankly don't know how long that might take. So rather than spend any more time here on the forum jawing about something that I have virtually NO accurate information about, I'll refrain from discussing it any further and just get to work.

But thanks to ALL of you for your interest in the product, and we will certainly let you know when it is ready for the market (or at least VERY close to ready).


Take care everybody, and Happy New Year!!

David Giles
Carada, Inc.

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post #455 of 613 Old 12-30-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles View Post

"Reasonable" is a relative term.

Reasonable to my pocket that is!

Seriously though. I fully understand that you need to have a good margin to cover expenses and development costs and these will always be much greater for niche products such as masking systems than items sold in large numbers.

Still, I always thought there must be a way to produce and sell a simple but well functioning masking system without charging the same as a brand new car. I think it is possible to design and produce a CIH masking system that will not be more complicated or expensive to develop and build than your current Masquerade. (Especially since you already should have a lot of know-how from the development of the vertical Masquerade.)

Anyway, good luck again and I'm looking forward to hear more about it in due time!

Happy New Year!

/Ted
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post #456 of 613 Old 01-02-2009, 03:42 PM
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This will be my first PJ so i hope the expert here could help me make an intelligent decision. the screen will be in a living room with a wall of 10ft high and 115 inch wide. The sony vpl-vw100 will be ceiling mount(with extension columns) back at 17ft to 18ft. I don't want to go anymore back b/c the pj will need 4 ft to 5ft to vent...
I'm thinking of going with Hp, SS or BW screen with the masquerade masking system. If i was going with the hp screen...then should i buy the Cinema Contour, Da-Snap, Perm-Wall. But I like the ideal of buying all the product from 1 company b/c it will fix together perfectly. that why i was considering the BW but the gain is too low for that throw distance. I was thing that the screen size might be 60"X107" (2.35:1) Thanks in advance. sorry for your trouble.


keith
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post #457 of 613 Old 01-03-2009, 11:00 AM
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i just find this company:

http://www.smxscreen.com/pro-mask-masking-screen.html

Four Independently Controlled Masks!!!


look expensive though.


keith
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post #458 of 613 Old 01-03-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithishere View Post

i just find this company:

http://www.smxscreen.com/pro-mask-masking-screen.html

Four Independently Controlled Masks!!!


look expensive though.


keith

About 5x to 6x the price of a Carada CIW masking system. There's a thread for those systems elsewhere in this forum as well.

There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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post #459 of 613 Old 01-03-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithishere View Post

i just find this company:

http://www.smxscreen.com/pro-mask-masking-screen.html

Four Independently Controlled Masks!!!


look expensive though.


keith

And it's not available (not being made) either at this point in time. I don't know why it's still advertised so heavily given you can't buy one right now. (Although presumably some time in the future it will become available again).

The Carada Masquerade is simply an incredible bargain in the world of automated screen masking. It's really helping me make my masking system into something I can afford.
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post #460 of 613 Old 01-05-2009, 06:56 AM
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Hey Rich,


what Carada Masquerade system did you went with?
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post #461 of 613 Old 01-05-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

Just placed an order for a 92" Masquerade and an MMS screen to go along with it. Very excited to get my hands on this bad boy after reading all the positive reviews and comments. David Giles from Carada has been very helpfull and prompt with answering all my questions via email. Now, I'm just waiting and drooling, hoping to have it in time for Christmas. Mr. Giles... Please?

UPDATE:

Recently got my new Masquerade and screen up and running. I won't get carried away with a big long post about everything that has been stated here numerous times already. However, I will echo all the positive comments mentioned in this thread and just say, AMAZING. Don't worry about damage during shipping, because the packaging is just insane. Everthing about the masking system is first rate and installation was a breeze. Best upgrade to my system I've made in years, maybe ever...

If I may, I recommend getting an MMS screen to go with it. The masks are up nice and tight to the screen, making for and excellent combo.
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post #462 of 613 Old 01-07-2009, 11:59 AM
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Keith -
I started a thread looking at exactly the same screens you are considering.
Some room differences.
Check it out if you think it will help.
Good luck.
Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithishere View Post

This will be my first PJ so i hope the expert here could help me make an intelligent decision. the screen will be in a living room with a wall of 10ft high and 115 inch wide. The sony vpl-vw100 will be ceiling mount(with extension columns) back at 17ft to 18ft. I don't want to go anymore back b/c the pj will need 4 ft to 5ft to vent...
I'm thinking of going with Hp, SS or BW screen with the masquerade masking system. If i was going with the hp screen...then should i buy the Cinema Contour, Da-Snap, Perm-Wall. But I like the ideal of buying all the product from 1 company b/c it will fix together perfectly. that why i was considering the BW but the gain is too low for that throw distance. I was thing that the screen size might be 60"X107" (2.35:1) Thanks in advance. sorry for your trouble.


keith

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post #463 of 613 Old 01-08-2009, 08:15 AM
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thanks mike, but smx customer service seem not to be as good as David the Carada Man. I try to get a price from them through email and phone but all i got was "they are in a meeting" reply or email me back with a price for a screen that i was not interested in. i also call avs to get a price on a hp screen. And still have not heard back from them, yet... So i call Focused Technology and projector people. They gave me the price right at that moment. "Sometime when you get too big. You tend to forget where you come from" But anyway... i decide to go with a hp screen. i will call David sometime today to make an order on a Horizontal system...So if you there David.... Sorry for ramping!
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post #464 of 613 Old 01-08-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithishere View Post

thanks mike, but smx customer service seem not to be as good as David the Carada Man. I try to get a price from them through email and phone but all i got was "they are in a meeting" reply or email me back with a price for a screen that i was not interested in. i also call avs to get a price on a hp screen. And still have not heard back from them, yet... So i call Focused Technology and projector people. They gave me the price right at that moment. "Sometime when you get too big. You tend to forget where you come from" But anyway... i decide to go with a hp screen. i will call David sometime today to make an order on a Horizontal system...So if you there David.... Sorry for ramping!

I just got my exchanged RS20 in the mail.
Works this time (so far).
Excited to pick a screen now.

Mike
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post #465 of 613 Old 01-11-2009, 07:07 AM
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Hey BRAC please post some pictures, we want to see your's setup..
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post #466 of 613 Old 01-11-2009, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithishere View Post

Hey Rich,


what Carada Masquerade system did you went with?

I haven't bought mine yet. But the plan is to have a custom made Masquerade, about 125" wide by 62" tall viewing screen area. I'm also incorporating my own side masking, to end up with 4 way masking, because
I enjoy having the option of changing my screen size at my whim.
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post #467 of 613 Old 01-12-2009, 09:02 AM
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i just jump in the masking pool I really need to find a part time job to pay for it. Maybe if david or rex is hiring?
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post #468 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 10:04 AM
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I'm thinking of a 136" 2.35:1 screen and Masquerade masking system.

Per David Giles:
"The Masquerade system itself will weigh approx. 95 lbs and the screen will weigh approx. 25 lbs, so they will weigh approx. 120 lbs together."
(bold added)

I have a electrical cabinet that the screen/mask will be in front of.
Initially with just a screen I thought it could be lifted off if the electrical box needed to be accessed.
That may not be (easily) possible with a 120 pound large screen/mask combo.
My wife wants to be able to turn off electricity if possible.
She was evoking electrocuted kids and her inability to access box.
So, this is an issue for her (and me).

A while ago a local B&M HT guy suggested a "piano hinge" to allow a screen to be pulled away from wall to access cabinet (with hinge on opposite side as cabinet).

Has anyone here ever done this or seen it?
See my HT pics sig for pictures if interested.

I was thinking of building a screen/mask "platform" with a plywood/2x4/plywood sandwich (for stability and decreasing flex on a lever arm) and covering the (larger than screen/mask combo) wood with black velvet.

Another option is building a false wall, but then I am covering outlets (a code violation?) on wall and would need to reposition my corner bass traps, etc.

Thanks for any help.

Mike

PS - I may cross list this under my thread looking at screens.
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post #469 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

I'm thinking of a 136" 2.35:1 screen and Masquerade masking system.

Did you type this right? I believe the Masquerade system is only for 16:9 screens.

Ernie
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post #470 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Worms View Post

Did you type this right? I believe the Masquerade system is only for 16:9 screens.

The Masquerade screen shape - aspect ratio - can be made to order. Mine is going to be roughly a 2:05:1 aspect ratio.
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post #471 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 05:46 PM
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Hey Mike,

I don't know of anyone who has put a masking system/screen on a platform that swings out on a piano hinge although I don't see why it wouldn't work IF the platform is flat and rigid enough AND the piano hinge can hold that kind of weight. Unfortunately I can't give you any first hand advice on how to do it simply because I haven't done it or seen it done, but I can pass on a couple of thoughts. I would guess that the plywood/2x4/plywood sandwich platform would probably weigh around 100 lbs itself, so with the Masquerade and screen mounted on it the whole structure would weigh well over 200 lbs. And the width of the system you want would put much of that weight pretty far away from the hinge, so the hinge itself would need to be a VERY strong hinge in order to hold the system without sagging. Definitely not the kind of project I would recommend for the faint of heart, but if you're handy enough I think it could be accomplished. You will of course have to provide electricity to the system so you'll need to figure out how that works with your hinge.

One thing I would recommend is that you put a couple of fixtures on the wall that support the platform/masking system structure when it's in its normal position (something as simple as L-brackets would work) so that all that weight isn't constantly pulling on the piano hinge. That way, only on those rare occasions when you actually need to swing the system away from the wall would the piano hinge come into play.

Hope that helps get you started!

David Giles

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post #472 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Worms View Post

Did you type this right? I believe the Masquerade system is only for 16:9 screens.

We currently have two versions of the Masquerade available: a horizontal system for 16:9 screens (with masking panels on top and bottom to mask the black bars above and below a 2.35:1 image); and a vertical system for 2.35:1, 2.37:1, or 2.40:1 screens (with vertical masking panels that drop down from inside the top structure to mask the black bars on the sides when viewing 16:9 material on a "scope" screen). I know our website needs to be updated and organized to better explain the formats that the Masquerade is available in, and we will try to get that done in the very near future.

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post #473 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Worms View Post

Did you type this right? I believe the Masquerade system is only for 16:9 screens.

Rich and David beat me to it, but here is the link to the Carada Vertical Masquerade masking system.

From that site:
"The Vertical system deploys drop-down masks on the left and right to cover unused screen surface when viewing less than cinema-wide video material on 2.35:1 projection screen.

The standard sized Masquerade Masking Systems are listed by the open 2.35 image they have (masks retracted). In addition to each of these Masquerade products you may also purchase the MMS Series projection screen which is optimized to work with the Masquerade. "


Mike
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post #474 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles View Post

Hey Mike,

I don't know of anyone who has put a masking system/screen on a platform that swings out on a piano hinge although I don't see why it wouldn't work IF the platform is flat and rigid enough AND the piano hinge can hold that kind of weight. Unfortunately I can't give you any first hand advice on how to do it simply because I haven't done it or seen it done, but I can pass on a couple of thoughts. I would guess that the plywood/2x4/plywood sandwich platform would probably weigh around 100 lbs itself, so with the Masquerade and screen mounted on it the whole structure would weigh well over 200 lbs. And the width of the system you want would put much of that weight pretty far away from the hinge, so the hinge itself would need to be a VERY strong hinge in order to hold the system without sagging. Definitely not the kind of project I would recommend for the faint of heart, but if you're handy enough I think it could be accomplished. You will of course have to provide electricity to the system so you'll need to figure out how that works with your hinge.

One thing I would recommend is that you put a couple of fixtures on the wall that support the platform/masking system structure when it's in its normal position (something as simple as L-brackets would work) so that all that weight isn't constantly pulling on the piano hinge. That way, only on those rare occasions when you actually need to swing the system away from the wall would the piano hinge come into play.

Hope that helps get you started!

David Giles

David -

Thanks for the input.
A HT installer is coming over tomorrow to mount my RS20 projector to the ceiling and my carpenter is coming over at the same time to brainstorm.
I'll show the link to my carpenter and see what he says.

If I just get the screen, it would be pretty easy, but the combo makes it complicated.
We'll see if I can pull it off.
Another installer said that a "piano hinge" as in actual hinge used for a grand piano could do it, but I think that was in consideration of the screen only. Hmm.

Thanks again,

Mike
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post #475 of 613 Old 01-13-2009, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by keithishere View Post

Hey BRAC please post some pictures, we want to see your's setup..


I'm still trying to get this whole screenshot and posting pictures on the forum thing figured out. I want to make sure any pictures I post will actually do justice to the content being captured. I'll try and get some images posted by the weekend.
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post #476 of 613 Old 01-14-2009, 06:56 AM
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David et al. -

What do you think of a vertical (not horizontal/side) piano hinge to allow access to cabinet?

That would create less of a lever arm and allow support from multiple studs.

Thoughts?

Mike

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post #477 of 613 Old 01-14-2009, 09:00 AM
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Hey Mike, it sounds like you're talking about a hinge that is installed horizontally across the TOP of the platform/masking system structure, so that the structure could be lifted UP from the bottom towards the ceiling? If so, I would think that arrangement would certainly require a less-beefy hinge. But it would be VERY difficult to lift such a structure (not to mention dangerous) unless you installed some sort of rope/pulley system to help lift the structure. And it's definitely not something I would want one person (your wife) to have to do when they're in an emergency situation. Have you ruled out the possibility of having an electrician come in and relocate the power box to another wall in the room?

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post #478 of 613 Old 01-14-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles View Post

Hey Mike, it sounds like you're talking about a hinge that is installed horizontally across the TOP of the platform/masking system structure, so that the structure could be lifted UP from the bottom towards the ceiling? If so, I would think that arrangement would certainly require a less-beefy hinge. But it would be VERY difficult to lift such a structure (not to mention dangerous) unless you installed some sort of rope/pulley system to help lift the structure. And it's definitely not something I would want one person (your wife) to have to do when they're in an emergency situation. Have you ruled out the possibility of having an electrician come in and relocate the power box to another wall in the room?

David Giles

David -

Your evaluation is correct.

I tried to get the power box moved pre basement construction and the builder wouldn't do it.
I know, I'm the buyer, I should have pushed more, but didn't see this coming and had a pregnant wife that didn't want any delays in getting into the house.
Also, the drywall is QuietRock, so I'd hate to rip it up now (and redo that wall and the other wall I'd move it to.
In retrospect and in any future builds I definitely wouldn't have a cabinet on my front wall.
What a pain!

Hmm...
What if I had some hydraulic lifts -- like on hatchback cars to "assist" the lifting of the screen when needed.
I realize I'm getting into more building than is usually needed, but just a thought.

My dad, father-in-law, and bro/sis-in-laws are all engineers.
Maybe I need to invoke their help?


Mike

Pic - rear hatch strut



Some in my google search have said...
"Fit Note: Heavy Duty - For Vehicles with A/C or Rear Spoiler"
Maybe that would be strong enough to give a good enough lift?
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post #479 of 613 Old 01-14-2009, 02:32 PM
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Just got my order in for the 114 dia..H. masking. Also decide to go with the Hp screen. Hope my decision work out...hate to second guess myself


sorry I'm no help to you, mike.
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post #480 of 613 Old 01-15-2009, 08:35 AM
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Mike I think the structure you have in mind would be quite a bit heavier than a car hatch. The struts might make it a bit easier to lift, but I definitely wouldn't trust the struts to hold it up while someone is back there working in the electrical box. If you do use the struts to help lift the structure, I'd recommend some sort of latching method to latch the structure to the ceiling.

Thanks for your order Keith!

David Giles

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