Which Stewart Screen for my DWIN? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 11-12-2001, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I will have an ISCO II and want to have a 110 to 120 inch screen.
I am guessing the GreyHawk but....
I have complete light control and I will be sitting roughly 16.5 ft away. I might be talked into a microperf but the one I have seen, the holes were visable at 13 ft.

Thanks anyone

Greg
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post #2 of 25 Old 11-13-2001, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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A shameless "look at me" bump!:D
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post #3 of 25 Old 11-13-2001, 02:30 PM
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Your DWIN what?

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post #4 of 25 Old 11-13-2001, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Transvision, sorry:rolleyes: I am an Aggie....

Hey, you are a great resource. I wish I could afford your service.

Greg
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post #5 of 25 Old 11-13-2001, 06:14 PM
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A 54x96 (110") GrayHawk MicroPerf will provide just over 17 ft. lamberts. The same material in a 60x107 (123") screen will provide just over 14 ft lamberts. If you don't use MicroPerf, the image will be slightly brighter.

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post #6 of 25 Old 11-13-2001, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!

From what I have read you want 17+ lamberts but I guess 14 will do....

The microperf idea is growing on me and I know it is a must for one of your HT beauties.

Dennis, if had the $$ you would be the first man I'd call.:cool:

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post #7 of 25 Old 11-14-2001, 07:12 AM
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A commercial theater will be in the 15 ft lamberts range, the minimum for a home theater would be 8 ft lamberts, a direct view set is in the area of 30 ft. lamberts.

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post #8 of 25 Old 11-14-2001, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I wonder if I am a candidate for Don's new "secret" DLP screen?

Don?


Greg
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post #9 of 25 Old 11-15-2001, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 25 Old 11-15-2001, 03:15 PM
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I wouldn't think so. At 15 Ft Lamberts, you have a plenty bright picdture. It starts getting higher, you'll be wearing sunglasses to watch a movie.

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post #11 of 25 Old 11-15-2001, 07:00 PM
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Aggie,

I have seen the Dwin at trade shows but I have not made actual measurements. Does anyone in LA want to bring down their projector so we can take a good look?

Dennis's (one of my favorite HT designers) FL numbers are correct. These numbers will vary downwards when color temp is adjusted to 6500K.

Don
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-15-2001, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Well let me know if get to test one out. At this point I know three things about my screen:

1. I will buy it from Jason @AVScience
2. It will be a Stewart
3. I have some time before I have to make that critical decision(Dec/early Jan)

Thanks for the response Don and Dennis. Don if you get more info on the Transvision, please post it.

Thanks
Grace and Peace
Greg
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 02:20 AM
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"A 54x96 (110") GrayHawk MicroPerf will provide just over 17 ft. lamberts. The same material in a 60x107 (123") screen will provide just over 14 ft lamberts. If you don't use MicroPerf, the image will be slightly brighter."

Dennis,

Are you reporting these numbers based on actual measurements of these two combinations?
Or are you just plugging in the manufacturers claim of a 1000 lumen output into a formula?

I ask because others are reporting digital projectors with grossly inflated brightness ratings. Not to mention the decrease in bulb brightness over time.

Aggie might be in for a big surprise if he buys a 60" X 107" Greyhawk and ends up with less than 8 ft Lamberts on screen.

Joe
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post #14 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I have read on here before that the DWIN as roughly 700 lumens as apposed to the listed 1000.

Maybe Don will have exact measurements before I have to make that critical decision:D

I think the equation looks like this:

Lumens(1000)*Gain(.95) divided by Sq ft of screen(44.58) = 21.30 fl

I would assume he used the real lumens in this case.

Thanks,
Greg
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post #15 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 06:42 AM
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Measured output. (Without calibration.)

The published specs from DWIN are not entirely useful. They specify 1000 lumens but do not specify if that is Peak or ANSI nor the parameters of the test or ASTM method used. I suspect they are peak and tweaked.

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post #16 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 08:34 AM
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:)
I guess I would only be happy with actual measurements on fully calibrated PJ with bulb use of say 100/300/900 hours.In room to be used.How about "worst case scenario"-every time.
:) :)

Ron
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post #17 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 09:02 AM
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I'd guess, you'll have a real long wait for a projector. :) I'd suspect any manufacturer would not be forth coming with a projector if one of the requirements was to put 300 hours on it. It's tough enough to get one, much less long enough to turn it on.

OTH, my own suspicions would lead me to believe the decline in Ft.Lamberts over 300 hours would not be significant, and, if you're starting out fresh but just barely on the upside of minimums, you should not be flying that airplane anyway (I mean, using that screen material). Understand, we have been speaking of Ft.Lamberts in the range of 14-17. I've seen many where the picture was hovering at 8 very nicely (typically from a CRT).

Actually, to become "Design Cinema Certified" (now that carries about as much weight as a flea), I'd like to see the following specs listed at 50% of the rated bulb life:

Lumens at 6500K at 30%, 50%, and 100% white levels (or 70%, 50% and 0% gray).

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post #18 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 09:10 AM
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The DWIN is a 4:3 ratio projector. The correct area for a 4:3 107" wide screen is 107 X 80.25/144 = 59.6 sq ft.

The screen brightness equation - assuming a "real" 700 lumen output is

lumens (700) * gain (.95) / sft (59.6) = 11.1

As the bulb ages, you could very easily drop below 8 ft Lamb with this setup.

Dennis. I don't understand your last post

"Measured output. (Without calibration.)"

Are you saying you actually measured over 14 ft Lamberts with a 107 X 60 Grayhawk? That would mean the DWin is putting out very close to it's 1000 lumen spec.
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-16-2001, 09:21 AM
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Uncalibrated, white, lumens, center lens, measured at 1 meter (ie, no uniformity test and at 1 meter that would not be useful).

BTW, the original criteria specified an ISCOII lens, as I recall so effectively 100% of the panel would be used on a 1.78:1 screen.

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post #20 of 25 Old 11-19-2001, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I am definately going for the MicroPerf 123" Saw one today and from my sitting distance of 14 ft it won't be a problem.

Now if I could just snap my finger and complete my buildout:p

GigEm
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post #21 of 25 Old 11-23-2001, 11:07 PM
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I would like to know how the lamp output curve looks.Esp since tests show 10% drop in first 100 hours.
Most people would like to know WCS(worst case scenario)before plugging in lumen numbers that should be divided by approx 2.
Example:
After all calibration and optimization JVC G-1000 tested in home theater mag(April 2000) gave (on 6.5ft wide Stewart Studiotek 130) a whopping 6.9FL.That goes down as bulb hours go up.
I would want a G20 minimum if thats the case.
:)

Ron
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post #22 of 25 Old 11-25-2001, 03:52 AM
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Ron,

You may be entering a sort of taboo area. For some reason, very few digital projector owners report actual screen brightness measurements here. I always chuckle when I see posts like. "Boy, I'm going to need sunglasses when my new D-ILA arrives." Then no follow up measurements.

One would think that, with the potentially large expenses involved, there would be more interest in accurately predicting ft Lamberts of these screen/digital projector combinations. And the decreased bulb output with age, as you mentioned.

Or maybe they are measuring and have not reported? G-1000 owners wouldn't exactly be bragging about 6.5 ft Lamberts on a small screen, I guess.

Having some accurate real world numbers would sure make it a lot easier to select a proper screen.

Joe
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post #23 of 25 Old 11-25-2001, 05:28 AM
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FWIW, I have both the DWIN Transvision as well as the Stewart Grayhawk 100" 16x9 Deluxe fixed screen.

I am not HT techy enough to discuss light etc but I can tell you how I feel after countless demos and about three months of installation.

I love this combination! I have as I said, demo'd countless pieces of equipment and I am very happy with my choice.

While I've not had the pleasure of speaking directly with Stewart tech support, I have with DWIN. Priceless. When I believed I had a issue with my DWIN (turned out to be a cable issue) the support was nothing short of impeccable.

Best of luck.
Tom

Regards,
Tom
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post #24 of 25 Old 11-25-2001, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I would concur wholeheartily on the DWIN service. This is what sets them apart in my book.

On the other note, be glad you do not "speak" videophile:) Then you would wax rapsodic about rainbows, and dithering, and on and on....instead, just enjoy the DWIN and movie bliss.

Congrats!
Greg
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post #25 of 25 Old 11-25-2001, 04:47 PM
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I would point out that you don't see many people, digital or analogue projector owners, posting brightness measurements. That's because the test equipment necessary to get accurate results is quite expensive. Ideally, you would need a light meter that was calibrated to match the CIE standard observer curves, like the Minolta LS-100. These kinds of instruments are not commonly available.

Really it doesn't matter, our own eyes are the final judge. If it's looks bright enough, sit back and relax, everything is OK! Hopefully there will soon be reliable test results for projectors (and other equipment), I believe John Gannon of SGHT is working on a test facility. The test results in HT mags are also not bad for a general ballpark figure, even if they don't necessary have consistent methodology.

Regards,

Kam Fung
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