Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 120 - AVS Forum
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post #3571 of 3689 Old 05-01-2014, 01:33 PM
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Thanks Craig. I wasn't aware of that. I just joined for more education, discussion and sharing. 

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post #3572 of 3689 Old 05-01-2014, 03:42 PM
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BD owners,

I recently saw the 1.4 game Zero Edge screen at a showroom and it looked amazing. I thought it looked really nice with the lights on but so much better with the lights off as is the case with any kind of screen. I'm wondering if it is overkill to go with such a screen in a dedicated space where most of viewing will be with lights off completely or sconces up around 25%. I really like the thin bezel. Are there any other less expensive options. So far all I have come up with are the Pure Zero Edge, Slate Zero Edge and the Da-Lite Ultra Thin Bezel

Thanks
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post #3573 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 10:41 AM
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Dave and Rofu - As requested I have full light daytime pics loaded in my build thread.

There is no question that the image is impacted by all the ambient light my room gets in the daytime but I think that is the case with any front PJ setup and the BD I felt was a very good choice for me given my desire to have a multi-purpose space. Even with all the light I introduced in the photos, my picture is still watchable.

In my personal circumstances, we mostly watch movies or DVR'd programs in the evening after 830p so it is already dark outside.

Those times when I'm in the room watching say a daytime NFL game with a noon CT start, I would always close the blinds just to improve the picture and if it was me watching alone, I'd have the lights off for same reason. If we had guests watching I'd probably have the lights dimmed to 20-30%.

For how we watch and when we watch, I am pleased.

Hopefully my experiences are helpful to you.

Greg

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post #3574 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 10:56 AM
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Greg,

Thanks for the pictures.

I just ordered a pure white zero edge for my room which has some amount of ambient light. It might may not be right for the application, but I'm one of the few who likes a brighter white screen to attempt to create a usable image (even though black level will be higher).

I'll let you know how it turns out,
ELmO

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post #3575 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 11:27 AM
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Thank you very much Greg,

These are exactly what I wanted to see, I never expected the picture to be perfect in these conditions and it's great to see how it holds up next to a proper window not just lights turned up, as there is huge difference between full bright indoor illumination and bounced/ difused sunlight.

Did you ever sample a 1.4 gain material? I know for your room the 0.8 was the best suit, but curious if you ever sampled or made your choice through deductive reasoning smile.gif

From the images I'll definitely be joining you and many others with a BD screen, It's a shame that screen innovations don't show these kinda of pictures on their site, as most people spending the kind of money for these screens are unlikely to be stupid and understand things aren't going to be perfect. If I had seen those kinda image on their site, I would have already bought one.

Again thanks very much for showing some honest unbiased images - nice to see folks don't need to drink the coolade to still appreciate the worth of a screen.

Cheers
Tim
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post #3576 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

Thanks so much Greg! I've seen the BD 1.4, but not the .8 version. The football pictures look really good, so I'm looking forward to seeing your daylight pics.

BLAKE: what projector do you recommend for the .8 version of the screen? I can only imagine it needs to be a projector with a lot of lumens, because you had the 2400 lumen Epson in high lamp mode on your BD 1.4, and I imagine that the .8 would need even more lumens.


Thanks,
Dave

You must always, no wait never....no always, ya always:) You must always consider three things when doing two piece projection.
1. Size of screen
2. how much ambient light is in the room. We have a free light meter available for android or apple phones. room light is measured in Foot Candles (FC)
3. How many lumans you need to fill that size screen in that lighting environment.

We have a tool on the Screen innovations web site called the Screen Wizard that will take all 3 into account and help you pick the right materials.

You can also always call me or Tom at the SI factory.
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post #3577 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 12:16 PM
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Blake a quick question for you,

On your BD motorised, the mounting brackets can be slid in between 6inch and a foot, is this a hard limitation (there is only enough slide on the mount) or a recommended distance ?
I am unfortunate in having the chimney Breast on the wall I want to hang the screen. So could ideally put the mounts further inward than the 12"
What would you suggest ?
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post #3578 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROfu View Post

Blake a quick question for you,

On your BD motorised, the mounting brackets can be slid in between 6inch and a foot, is this a hard limitation (there is only enough slide on the mount) or a recommended distance ?
I am unfortunate in having the chimney Breast on the wall I want to hang the screen. So could ideally put the mounts further inward than the 12"
What would you suggest ?

The most important thing is to be sure to anchor the "L" brackets into a stud. If you need a 3rd bracket we are happy to provide it.
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post #3579 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjay71 View Post

BD owners,

I recently saw the 1.4 game Zero Edge screen at a showroom and it looked amazing. I thought it looked really nice with the lights on but so much better with the lights off as is the case with any kind of screen. I'm wondering if it is overkill to go with such a screen in a dedicated space where most of viewing will be with lights off completely or sconces up around 25%. I really like the thin bezel. Are there any other less expensive options. So far all I have come up with are the Pure Zero Edge, Slate Zero Edge and the Da-Lite Ultra Thin Bezel

Thanks

Keep in mind Black Diamond improves contrast by a published 900% and reduces light scatter in the room by 75%. So is it over kill, only if you want AWSOME!
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post #3580 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjay71 View Post

BD owners,

I recently saw the 1.4 game Zero Edge screen at a showroom and it looked amazing. I thought it looked really nice with the lights on but so much better with the lights off as is the case with any kind of screen. I'm wondering if it is overkill to go with such a screen in a dedicated space where most of viewing will be with lights off completely or sconces up around 25%. I really like the thin bezel. Are there any other less expensive options. So far all I have come up with are the Pure Zero Edge, Slate Zero Edge and the Da-Lite Ultra Thin Bezel

Thanks

We have the Zero Edge frame style available in Slate, Pure White, Pure Gray and Black Diamond all available up to 120" in 16:9 and 150" in 2:35.
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post #3581 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 12:53 PM
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Black Diamond is now available in 120" 16:9 Zero Edge up from 115".

Also available in 150" 2:35 up from 144".
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post #3582 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 01:11 PM
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I would absolutely love a BD zero edge but I don't think I'll be able to get it down in my basement due to a nasty turn at the top of my stair case frown.gif. I want to go at least 120 inches down there when the time comes for a screen. Just out of curiosity how do you know what is best for your room between the slate, pure white, pure gray and black diamond?
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post #3583 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 01:13 PM
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blake can you contact TX and tell them to expedite my pure white zero edge order? xD I can't wait!

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post #3584 of 3689 Old 05-02-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeSI View Post

Keep in mind Black Diamond improves contrast by a published 900% and reduces light scatter in the room by 75%. So is it over kill, only if you want AWSOME!

Thanks Blake. I actually had a 2.35:1 traditional Black Diamond (BDII) in my old home and it was great. I am sure the ZE with 4K screen technology would be even better. I am just debating between the Slate and the Black Diamond right now but leaning toward BD. I am glad I can go up to 120" diagonal now smile.gif
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post #3585 of 3689 Old 05-03-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROfu View Post

Blake a quick question for you,

On your BD motorised, the mounting brackets can be slid in between 6inch and a foot, is this a hard limitation (there is only enough slide on the mount) or a recommended distance ?
I am unfortunate in having the chimney Breast on the wall I want to hang the screen. So could ideally put the mounts further inward than the 12"
What would you suggest ?
The case and screen are very, very heavy, so they really need to be mounted into solid studs. Studs in the walls are generally x inches apart that's why there is the foot of play on either side.
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post #3586 of 3689 Old 05-04-2014, 01:53 AM
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Cheers for the reply Denis,

I'm living in the UK, London, so don't need to worry about stud walls, they are all old Victorian buildings, so all the walls are brick/block.
I was hopping to mount on a chimney breast which will be about 2/3rds the size of the screen so would need to have the brackets more than 1ft in from the edge. I'm trying to find out how the bracket/frame is constructed to see if that 1ft is a true maximum or just recommended as it's more likely it'll need to go in between 1 1/2ft and 2ft from its edge, or that's even possible.

Cheers
Tim
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post #3587 of 3689 Old 05-04-2014, 05:52 AM
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Any pictures of the chimney

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post #3588 of 3689 Old 05-04-2014, 07:39 AM
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This is the base room - as you can see littles been started yet - But if you look above the upside down temporary screen there are two mounting holes (these were from my old 60" LCD. 

I am considering getting a fixed frame BD and mounting it on a TV stand instead - after working out some sizes and weights. 

Of note, that screen is a 92inch optima generic white screen. 

You can also see from this room why i need a good ambient rejecting screen. 

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post #3589 of 3689 Old 05-04-2014, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROfu View Post

Cheers for the reply Denis,

I'm living in the UK, London, so don't need to worry about stud walls, they are all old Victorian buildings, so all the walls are brick/block.
I was hopping to mount on a chimney breast which will be about 2/3rds the size of the screen so would need to have the brackets more than 1ft in from the edge. I'm trying to find out how the bracket/frame is constructed to see if that 1ft is a true maximum or just recommended as it's more likely it'll need to go in between 1 1/2ft and 2ft from its edge, or that's even possible.

Cheers
Tim
The brackets will fit any where on the back of the case because the slots run down the whole backside of the case.
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post #3590 of 3689 Old 05-04-2014, 04:42 PM
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Fantastic, thanks for the info.
Motorised it'll be then, only need to see the 1.4 sample against the 0.8 (0.8 sounds like the most suitable thus far) in my room then it'll be ordered.

Appreciate all the help from everyone. I'll post some pics when it's all installed.

Cheers
Tim
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post #3591 of 3689 Old 05-04-2014, 04:51 PM
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from this thread, I was gathering many people don't order the 0.8 gain material - doesn't mean it won't work for you though.

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post #3592 of 3689 Old 05-05-2014, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdfein View Post

Dave and Rofu - As requested I have full light daytime pics loaded in my build thread.

There is no question that the image is impacted by all the ambient light my room gets in the daytime but I think that is the case with any front PJ setup and the BD I felt was a very good choice for me given my desire to have a multi-purpose space. Even with all the light I introduced in the photos, my picture is still watchable.

In my personal circumstances, we mostly watch movies or DVR'd programs in the evening after 830p so it is already dark outside.

Those times when I'm in the room watching say a daytime NFL game with a noon CT start, I would always close the blinds just to improve the picture and if it was me watching alone, I'd have the lights off for same reason. If we had guests watching I'd probably have the lights dimmed to 20-30%.

For how we watch and when we watch, I am pleased.

Hopefully my experiences are helpful to you.

Greg

Thanks so much! The pictures - both daylight ones and night ones - are exactly what I wanted to see. That screen does look absolutely amazing at night!

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post #3593 of 3689 Old 05-09-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeSI View Post

Black Diamond is now available in 120" 16:9 Zero Edge up from 115".

Also available in 150" 2:35 up from 144".

Just decided to get a 120" Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4 gain screen with the LED lighting kit. Going to pair it with a Sony VPL-HW55ES. My room does have 2 windows which we will cover with black out shades and most viewing will be during the evening with the lights out. I do like the idea of being able to watch during the day, however, with the windows open. Just gives us much more flexibility with the room. I had a fixed Black Diamond II 2.35 aspect screen at 144" paired with a JVC HD950 in my old home and it was a great combo. I am especially excited to see how sleek but massive the 120" ZE will look with the LED lights. Hoping it looks like a giant plasma smile.gif
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post #3594 of 3689 Old 05-09-2014, 02:29 PM
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Does anyone know what the largest size is for 2.35 and also 16:9 you can get that won't have a seam for residential? I know at one time Blake from SI had mentioned that 57" height was the max without a seam for 16:9 screens. I think I saw the 57" height restriction on the Black Diamond Venue which is for commercial applications. If this has been answered elsewhere, I haven't found it and do apologize.
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post #3595 of 3689 Old 05-09-2014, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post

Does anyone know what the largest size is for 2.35 and also 16:9 you can get that won't have a seam for residential? I know at one time Blake from SI had mentioned that 57" height was the max without a seam for 16:9 screens. I think I saw the 57" height restriction on the Black Diamond Venue which is for commercial applications. If this has been answered elsewhere, I haven't found it and do apologize.

I believe it is

16:9 - 120" diagonal
2.35:1 -150" diagonal
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post #3596 of 3689 Old 05-12-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjay71 View Post

Just decided to get a 120" Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4 gain screen with the LED lighting kit. Going to pair it with a Sony VPL-HW55ES. My room does have 2 windows which we will cover with black out shades and most viewing will be during the evening with the lights out. I do like the idea of being able to watch during the day, however, with the windows open. Just gives us much more flexibility with the room. I had a fixed Black Diamond II 2.35 aspect screen at 144" paired with a JVC HD950 in my old home and it was a great combo. I am especially excited to see how sleek but massive the 120" ZE will look with the LED lights. Hoping it looks like a giant plasma smile.gif

I had a chance to see a 106" BD ZE 1.4 paired with a Sony VPL-HW55ES (high lamp mode) at a store in town. The sun shines through the windows through the front of the store, and this room was inside the store, with window wall open to the front of the store. The window wall is on the left side of the room. When viewing something darker than an animated movie (which they usually show in that room) - in this case Iron Man 2 - the BD does a decent job, when sitting in the prime position centered with the screen. Moving to the left side of the seating - close to the window wall - the picture looked the best. However, moving to the right of center - lined up with the right side of the screen, the picture was not good at all. It was very washed out. Seems like the light coming through the window is kind of angled out towards the right side, but even as close as the right edge of the screen, it looks pretty bad.

At home, we also have windows on the left side of the room. My wife was sitting in the seat lined up with the right side of the screen, so after we left the store, she shared her thumbs down on the screen. I think I've given up on a projector/screen for a TV. I'll either end up with a larger TV, or a TV for day time and a motorized screen/projector for night time.


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My Screen Innovations Pure White Zero edge arrived for my video game room!

Blake - are the suspension cables for ZE screens in stock? Will they ship quickly vs. the screen shipment timing? I'm pretty sure I'll need to ceiling mount.

My room is not fully dark, but I'm going with my gut here - instead of a Black Diamond I'm giving the Pure White a shot based on my personal preferences.

Thanks,
ELmO


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post #3598 of 3689 Old 05-14-2014, 05:24 PM
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Please post some pictures, when you have a chance. With a little ambient light would be cool too. I've always wondered how this screen would look..


Thanks,

Dave

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post #3599 of 3689 Old 05-14-2014, 07:12 PM
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Wondering why you didn't go with at least Slate with some ambient light, but yes, post some photos.
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post #3600 of 3689 Old 05-15-2014, 04:13 AM
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The way I have it situated, I don't think I'll have a ton of ambient light.

I haven't seen a full BD screen in action, the sample I had seemed to vary a little bit based on where I was sitting. This is actually my first projection screen (I've been spray painting DIY before this). I want consistent off axis viewing angles, or something I can't easily tell changes if I stand up/sit down.

I think that is probably not as visible on a full screen, but I don't know right now. I also saw a bit of screen texture, maybe because my projector has a little too much light output - and because it's mounted high on the ceiling. Slate did not have any shimmering to my eye.

In a perfect world we can all have full screens in our house for free and choose which one we like.

I'm going on my gut, I played a lot of Zelda with the BD and Slate samples up on my wall, and there was an increase in contrast, but it wasn't as much as I thought - and it's because I think I don't have that much ambient light in the room as other people.

The pure screen sold me on its lack of visible texture. I want a very flat surface with no shimmering that I can pixel focus on.

I need the suspension cables in order to install it, so it might be a bit before I can see it in action.

I don't think many people own pure white zero edges, especially with a non dedicated/non-fully controlled environment.

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