Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

Does it have any sparklies/texture?

Amazingly, it didn't. That along with the hotspotting has always driven me crazy with the DNP Supernova's that we have sold a lot of and have on display at our store.

It is a smooth surface.
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post #362 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 09:42 AM
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Here are a couple of other quick pictures of the install. Again these were taken with my iPhone so dont make fun of the picture quality, the customer's furniture selection or that ugly Chief mount. I think I am going to replace it with the Omnimount PM2.




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post #363 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 09:48 AM
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I can't help but ask, why such a small screen? At least it looks pretty small. Is it just that the room is so big?

There was certainly lots of room on the wall. There does not appear to be a shortage of money to spend.

What size is the screen?
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post #364 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

I can't help but ask, why such a small screen? At least it looks pretty small. Is it just that the room is so big?

There was certainly lots of room on the wall. There does not appear to be a shortage of money to spend.

What size is the screen?

avdesignshouston said in earlier posts it was going to be a 92" and that they wanted bright.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=264
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=267

The room is not all that big. His recent post with the pic of the projector shows the projector is close to the rear wall at a throw distance of 13 feet.

I would personally want at least a 110" to 120" if I were sitting within 10 to 11 feet of the screen.
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post #365 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 11:08 AM
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The customer actually wanted a 60-65" plasma and did not think they would get a good picture with a projection system. Money was not a huge issue but they watch a lot of TV in the late afternoon and early evening and needed something bright. I too would have preferred a larger screen but I went with a 92" in order to help produce as bright an image as possible under poor lighting conditions. Also, they are really just not into having a huge screen. The largest flat panel in the entire house is a 42" and they refuse to go any larger.

I may have not said this before but this is not a media room. It is actually a game room that has no window treatments and a ton of natural light coming in. We tinted the windows to the right of the screen and it helped a lot. I have some motorized Lutron shades on order for those windows as well but the other windows in the room will be left alone.
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post #366 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 01:12 PM
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avdesign, thanks a whole lot for posting the pictures! On these pics though the screen looks a little bit "brighter" than I had anticipated and compared to the SIscreens gallery. I know that you take the pics with an angle towards the windows and that that is probably the issue. Now, my question, does the screen appear "black" in the room or does it really look like in the pictures, more like a darker shade of grey?

Also, in your opinion, how big is the need for masking with this screen, for instance when watching 2.35:1 material (in a dark room)?
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post #367 of 3725 Old 04-25-2008, 02:48 PM
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The screen looks more dark grey than black. The pictures absolutely do not do it justice. I never really paid attention directly to the black bars in relation to masking. I would have to look at it again to say definitively but I would be perfectly fine without masking.
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post #368 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 12:31 AM
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avdesign- looks almost exactly like the job I just sold!
My system:
113" 1.4 BD screen
DLAHD1 PJ
Martin Logan Passage x 3
Martin logan helos x 2 rears
Abyss woofer
Denon 3808ci with pro calibration setup
MX980 remote
Chief mount RPAU

I have a bit better light and customer has agreed to have at least some curtains
I am hoping for great things! I honestly have not been excited about a system install in quite a while to be honest, most of the stuff people can afford lately has been very average/normal the last 1.5 years
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post #369 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 12:40 AM
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Thanks for the response avdesign! It doesnt make me want the BD any less... :P
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post #370 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avdesignshouston View Post

Here are a couple of other quick pictures of the install. Again these were taken with my iPhone so dont make fun of the picture quality, the customer's furniture selection or that ugly Chief mount. I think I am going to replace it with the Omnimount PM2.

I 100% agree with the BTW, great install.
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post #371 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 12:02 PM
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Avdesign- which rack and in-ceiling speakers did you select?
Those are the voyages right?

edit- Have you seen the voyages with the black trim kit? I think it would look very nice in that room, it would take away the contrast in color between the screen frame and the speakers (if you choose the black finish)
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post #372 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rick View Post

Avdesign- which rack and in-ceiling speakers did you select?
Those are the voyages right?

edit- Have you seen the voyages with the black trim kit? I think it would look very nice in that room, it would take away the contrast in color between the screen frame and the speakers (if you choose the black finish)

I haven't done them in Black yet. I thought the black would be a little much. I replaced the original white kits with the silver color change and I think they look pretty good. The customer preferred the silver also.
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post #373 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 04:17 PM
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Sorry, yes they are the Voyage. I did 4 Helos 100 for the rear speakers. I used the Omnimount RSF. It is a great, inexpensive rack.
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post #374 of 3725 Old 04-26-2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rick View Post

avdesign- looks almost exactly like the job I just sold!
My system:
113" 1.4 BD screen
DLAHD1 PJ
Martin Logan Passage x 3
Martin logan helos x 2 rears
Abyss woofer
Denon 3808ci with pro calibration setup
MX980 remote
Chief mount RPAU

Are you happy with the ML Abyss? In my opinion the Depth is the way to go in terms of ML subs for a nice system (anything above that we use JL Audio). The Grotto is not bad for a small sub, but if I were going to do the Abyss or Dynamo I think you should definately try to sell 2 of them.
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post #375 of 3725 Old 04-27-2008, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avdesignshouston View Post

Are you happy with the ML Abyss? In my opinion the Depth is the way to go in terms of ML subs for a nice system (anything above that we use JL Audio). The Grotto is not bad for a small sub, but if I were going to do the Abyss or Dynamo I think you should definately try to sell 2 of them.

Honestly, I own a depth personally. I have a hard time listening to a non servo controlled woofer in my own system, most others seem to sound very sloppy IMO. However, when budget calls....

I don't think the grotto has as much output as the abyss, but it has better SQ for sure.
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post #376 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 07:39 AM
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I thought this thread was about the bd, not audio stuff.

How come there is not a store on the internet where you can order the
0.8gain? As I understood it was shipped 18april!

Stores usually put items out for pre-order way before release.
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post #377 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batborsen View Post

I thought this thread was about the bd, not audio stuff.

How come there is not a store on the internet where you can order the
0.8gain? As I understood it was shipped 18april!

Stores usually put items out for pre-order way before release.

Projectorzone had the BDs listed at one time, but that was weeks before the release date and they were asked by SI to remove the ads until the official release data. I checked there over the weekend and they do not have the ads back up.
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post #378 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 08:55 AM
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Ok hrd! I understand. Thanks for the info!
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post #379 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 12:20 PM
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avdesignshouston: like others I have been waiting eagerly some feedback from those lucky ones with the first BD in their hands. THANK YOU!

My questions (while I still wait for my BD material sample):

1) I see in the photos that the walls and ceiling are light-colored. How does the BD behave when the lights are off?
Did you notice any light scattering to the walls and ceiling? Would you say that the BD is far better than a normal white screen?
(like the video with the hand projected in the room with the light colored ceiling in the sicreens.com site?)

2) "The image looked only marginally better with the room totally dark at night"
Can you go into greater details? From what I understand you were expecting more than this.

3) Can you recall if the BD eliminates the need for masking? (when projecting a 16:9 image on a 2.35:1 screen)

These 3 factors are the key points that will either make me choose the BD or not...
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post #380 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 01:16 PM
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The BD scattered virtually no light on the walls and ceiling from what I could tell. In my opinion, there's no reason to (other than price) ever use a white screen material as long as the BD is available.

The reason I said, "...looked only marginally better with the room totally dark at night" is because the image was phenominal with lots of ambient light present. It's hard to improve much on that.

I really didn't look at in relation to masking but I would think that in a fairly dark room, masking would not be needed.
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post #381 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panosp View Post

2) "The image looked only marginally better with the room totally dark at night"
Can you go into greater details? From what I understand you were expecting more than this.

panosp, perhaps you thought avdesignshouston was saying the image looked only marginally better at night than it did during the day, when he likely meant the image looked only marginally better at night with the lights off than it did at night with the lights on.
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post #382 of 3725 Old 04-28-2008, 11:12 PM
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"I would think that in a fairly dark room, masking would not be needed."

I thought this was discussed already; anyway, if the pj doesn't have good CR the bars will be visible, because the job of the screen is to display what the pj projects.

Noah
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post #383 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 03:23 AM
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avdesignshouston: I think I created confusion with my 2nd question. Let me completely rephrase it:

2) In a totally dark room, how does an image compare when projected on a traditional matte white screen vs the BD? Is the image the same or better?
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post #384 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 06:22 AM
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From what I've heard the BD is a variation on the Sony's DynaClear screen but the gain is different and SI is bringing the screen to market with a different substrate that is far more resilent than the tissue thin potato chip bag texture of the DynaClear.
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post #385 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panosp View Post

avdesignshouston: I think I created confusion with my 2nd question. Let me completely rephrase it:

2) In a totally dark room, how does an image compare when projected on a traditional matte white screen vs the BD? Is the image the same or better?

I'd also like to hear what avdesignshouston feels about the difference between BD and white, as well as if he feels the image is punchier in any way.

h00kemh0rns commented on this. It's in a follow-up on the same page as his initial review:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=165
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post #386 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avdesignshouston View Post

At night it looked as good as any screen I have ever seen with no hotspotting.... We will begin using the Black Diamond in ALL applications from here on out.

I think he likes it as much as any white screen.
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post #387 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 09:00 AM
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Grrr... until someone comes out with some concrete evidence in regards to why one should choose a BD screen over a regular white matte IN A DARK room (with light colored walls and ceiling) I simply can't justify the extra cost.

Now, is there someone - ANYONE- who can shed some light on this issue?
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post #388 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

Projectorzone had the BDs listed at one time, but that was weeks before the release date and they were asked by SI to remove the ads until the official release data. I checked there over the weekend and they do not have the ads back up.

I don't think ProjectorZone will be putting them back on the website, as they took off all of their SI screens off of there, not just the BD. You can contact them over the phone and get pricing.
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post #389 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panosp View Post

Grrr... until someone comes out with some concrete evidence in regards to why one should choose a BD screen over a regular white matte IN A DARK room (with light colored walls and ceiling) I simply can't justify the extra cost.

Now, is there someone - ANYONE- who can shed some light on this issue?

Read h00kemh0rns review in post 165 and read the next few h00kemh0rns posts on the same page. I put a link to post 165 a few posts before this. He clearly stated he felt the BD beat the white screen in every way. SI had a white screen at the demo for an A/B comparison.
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post #390 of 3725 Old 04-29-2008, 09:32 AM
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Maybe I am not making myself clear enough:

1) h00kemh0rns saw the screen in a show in a NOT dark environment/room. He also -obviously- didn't have the time to play around and test (since its not his screen in his room)
2) As far as I can tell, the BD's main application/existence, is to make it possible to project images on a room with lights on. From what I have read/seen so far it beats anything out there hands down! But I am not interested in this since I am doing all my viewing in my living-room (which has light colored walls and ceiling) with the lights OFF!
3) There is no user so far (at least that we know of) who has done a A/B comparison of a BD vs a regular matte white screen in a DARK room. This is what actually interests me!
What I really want to know is:
a) is the BD superior to a matte white?
b) does the BD eliminate light scatter to the wall and ceilings when the wall and ceiling are light-colored? (like the video with the "hand" in the siscreens.com)
c) is the need for masking eliminated?

And BTW, h00kemh0rns has your screen been shipped to you??
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