Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 131 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #3901 of 3915 Old 04-18-2016, 07:11 PM
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Anyone know of any comparisons between SI and Seymour AT screens? For whatever reasons, these have become my top two options. (Well, and DragonFly as a distant third as proposed by an installer to fit in my budget.)

I'm most interested in whether they are basically peers or if one is substantially better than the other. A dB or two of loss in sound or minor differences in calibration impacts to the projector probably aren't much concern.
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post #3902 of 3915 Old 05-27-2016, 07:28 PM
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Just mounted a Black Diamond, 106" diag screen, on the wall. Proj is 13 feet away, ceiling mounted, 2500 lumen.

Ambient light rejection just seems kinda "meh". Looks great in a pitch black room.

Am i just hoping for to much that isnt realistic with ambient light (table lamps on, floor-to-ceiling windows blind open partially & light entering) or are there any tips/tricls to increase/maximize performance (turning all lights OFF is a great suggestion but not necessarily relevant!)

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post #3903 of 3915 Old 05-27-2016, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracitrus View Post
Just mounted a Black Diamond, 106" diag screen, on the wall. Proj is 13 feet away, ceiling mounted, 2500 lumen.

Ambient light rejection just seems kinda "meh". Looks great in a pitch black room.

Am i just hoping for to much that isnt realistic with ambient light (table lamps on, floor-to-ceiling windows blind open partially & light entering) or are there any tips/tricls to increase/maximize performance (turning all lights OFF is a great suggestion but not necessary relevant!)
Pictures or it didn't happen
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post #3904 of 3915 Old 05-27-2016, 08:44 PM
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Ha! Fair enough!!


Pic with the lights off




Pic with lights on (table lamps on, 1 in both corners, pic is from sitting on the couch, lights are directly to the left & right of couch)


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post #3905 of 3915 Old 05-28-2016, 10:49 AM
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If you wall is white or off white, see how the picture looks like when projected directly to the wall. That should give you a rough estimate of how much light rejection you are achieving. The more off centered the light is, the more it will reject. It won't reject the light coming from the same direction as your projector.
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post #3906 of 3915 Old 07-04-2016, 12:19 PM
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Hi everyone, I am planning to get a SI creen and I was able to record a personal test using slate .8 vs slate 1.2 vs black diamond 1.4 over a vutec white screen. I want to share the video if it is useful for anyone.

You can watch the first 2 videos here:
*youtube.com/watch?v=J2rjsSIOEqE
*youtube.com/watch?v=dNP7dTBxKUI

or

Leave a comment for helping me get the best option.
*avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/2505138-screen-innovations-real-life-comparison-test-white-screen-vs-slate-vs-black-diamond.html#post45147026[/url]

Thank you for your attention.
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post #3907 of 3915 Old 09-12-2016, 03:41 PM
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does anybody have any experience viewing the black diamond 2.7 gain screen?

And what is the min. throw distance the projector should be from the screen? im assuming a min. of 1.5x.
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post #3908 of 3915 Old 09-12-2016, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post
does anybody have any experience viewing the black diamond 2.7 gain screen?

And what is the min. throw distance the projector should be from the screen? im assuming a min. of 1.5x.
Correct. The minimum throw is 1.5 times image width.
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post #3909 of 3915 Old 10-03-2016, 03:27 PM
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That's a tough setup for even an ALR screen. ALR screens attempt to filter light from overhead and from the sides, but when the light comes from the same direction as the projector light (your sliding glass door), then it becomes fairly ineffective. You will need a light canon of a projector to help with this situation as well. The Epson has a noisy fan, unless in the lowest lamp mode.

If it were me, I'd just get a large TV and call it a day.

Dave
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post #3910 of 3915 Old 10-03-2016, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
That's a tough setup for even an ALR screen. ALR screens attempt to filter light from overhead and from the sides, but when the light comes from the same direction as the projector light (your sliding glass door), then it becomes fairly ineffective. You will need a light canon of a projector to help with this situation as well. The Epson has a noisy fan, unless in the lowest lamp mode.

If it were me, I'd just get a large TV and call it a day.

Dave
Dave,

Yes, I am also considering a large 85" Sony in place of a 95-100" projection screen. That said, my goal is to squeeze as many inches out of that room as possible, thus why I'm looking at projection. So, from your perspective, the configuration of my room would make projection a challenge unless I control the ambient lighting with curtains, etc.? My concern regarding a more powerful projector is the fact the screen would be situated at the lower throw threshold distance from projector, thus increasing the lumen output may have unintended consequences with those pesky sparkles and hot spots.

It appears I'm caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. Do you think more ambient light control would remedy things a bit or is it the fact the screen is flooded on both sides with light at angles it can't effectively reject?

Andres
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post #3911 of 3915 Old 10-03-2016, 07:00 PM
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Hi Andres,

More light control will help - especially with the light coming in from the sliding glass door. It's a personal preference. Some folks like to have light coming in during the day, and some folks don't mind having it like a cave. The more light control, the better the picture quality.

Dave
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post #3912 of 3915 Old 11-03-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
I have the SI Pure Gray in a light controlled room. I can't recommend it enough. It is insanely good! IMO with a light controlled room you don't need to worry about the slate or black diamond features.
I have about 7 FC of light at worse in my Family Room during the day (measured at noon toward the center of room, much less at the screen location). There is currently a pendant light that will be removed to make projection possible and one lamp light that will remain. I may add new pin lights to wash the screen and walls for affect when the screen is not in use and to have actual lighting in the room.

Here is a layout of what I intend to do. Some modest light bleeds into room from Kitchen and slider (which opens to a covered patio on the east side of house), but both ambient light sources will eventually be controlled with drapery or in the case of Kitchen light; be turned off during a movie. At about 6 PM, the room becomes even more dim (about 4FC). Eventually, the walls and ceilings will be painted a medium flat gray, the floors will be a textured dark gray carpet tile, the rear wall behind the screen will be some black fabric or velored acoustic panels. The screen will actually float over an existing window which will be covered with blinds.

Like others, I have read enough on this thread to be extremely concerned with the "cons" of ALR screens and while I like the "flat panel" look the dark gray materials provide, I am concerned once in my room, a BD or Slate will not yield enough ambient light rejecting benefits to sacrifice the image quality of say a Pure White 1.0 Zero Edge or a Stewart LuminEsse with the StudioTek 1.0 material. So.. my question is, in the room I just described where I watch TV mostly in the mid afternoon and upward, where movies are watched with little to no artificial lighting, sometimes with small traces of ambient light, but certainly not a bat cave, should I just go with a quality white screen like the ones mentioned and scrap the ALR dream?
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Last edited by techjoy; 11-03-2016 at 12:49 PM.
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post #3913 of 3915 Old 11-03-2016, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techjoy View Post
I have about 7 FC of light at worse in my Family Room during the day (measured at noon toward the center of room, much less at the screen location). There is currently a pendant light that will be removed to make projection possible and one lamp light that will remain. I may add new pin lights to wash the screen and walls for affect when the screen is not in use and to have actual lighting in the room.

Here is a layout of what I intend to do. Some modest light bleeds into room from Kitchen and slider (which opens to a covered patio on the east side of house), but both ambient light sources will eventually be controlled with drapery or in the case of Kitchen light; be turned off during a movie. At about 6 PM, the room becomes even more dim (about 4FC). Eventually, the walls and ceilings will be painted a medium flat gray, the floors will be a textured dark gray carpet tile, the rear wall behind the screen will be some black fabric or velored acoustic panels. The screen will actually float over an existing window which will be covered with blinds.

Like others, I have read enough on this thread to be extremely concerned with the "cons" of ALR screens and while I like the "flat panel" look the dark gray materials provide, I am concerned once in my room, a BD or Slate will not yield enough ambient light rejecting benefits to sacrifice the image quality of say a Pure White 1.0 Zero Edge or a Stewart LuminEsse with the StudioTek 1.0 material. So.. my question is, in the room I just described where I watch TV mostly in the mid afternoon and upward, where movies are watched with little to no artificial lighting, sometimes with small traces of ambient light, but certainly not a bat cave, should I just go with a quality white screen like the ones mentioned and scrap the ALR dream?
My opinion, unless you want the look of the BD screen when it's not in use, you have very little need for a BD screen in your room. Unless the projector you plan to use is really dim, I think a Pure Gray or Pure White is a great option. Personally I always recommend Pure Gray simply because it's not white, which for some reason seems more like a white board when not in use than the Pure Gray. Once the lights are down or a projector is used, very little perceived difference.
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post #3914 of 3915 Old 11-03-2016, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
My opinion, unless you want the look of the BD screen when it's not in use, you have very little need for a BD screen in your room. Unless the projector you plan to use is really dim, I think a Pure Gray or Pure White is a great option. Personally I always recommend Pure Gray simply because it's not white, which for some reason seems more like a white board when not in use than the Pure Gray. Once the lights are down or a projector is used, very little perceived difference.
I think the look of a chalk board, as you put it, is exactly what bothers me the most as the room also is a functioning Family Room; so it seems the choice is more an aesthetic one than one driven by realworld need. As I mentioned earlier, the room is generally dim, so I think your assessment is accurate; an ALR is likely overkill. I am willing to give up some daylight performance to ensure that 80% of the time I watch movies (mostly at night) for a flawless picture free of those pesky artifacts, sparkles, dim borders, poor off axis viewing angle, etc..

Currently, I am torn between the relatively inexpensive Epson 6040, the formidable JVC RS600 and the Epson LS10500. Uncalibrated lumem output goes to the 6040 as well as the price, but I'm concerned once calibrated, those 2500 lumens will drop below that of the more expensive units. Further, the JVC blacks are amazing, but some say the image processing is softer at 1080p; not as sharp as the other two. The LS10500 has a lot going for it too, is less than the JVC, but only has 1500 lumems. The next question is then how many lumems do I really need in that room to make a 120" 16:9 white or gray screen pop enough in modest ambient light conditions and look gorgeous at night?

Last edited by techjoy; 11-03-2016 at 05:17 PM.
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post #3915 of 3915 Old 11-03-2016, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Hi Andres,

More light control will help - especially with the light coming in from the sliding glass door. It's a personal preference. Some folks like to have light coming in during the day, and some folks don't mind having it like a cave. The more light control, the better the picture quality.

Dave
I am one of those who dislikes extreme darkness while entertaining, but love it to watch movies. Unfortunately, both often happen at the same time, thus why I was even considering an ALR screen. I do plan for drapery blackouts around the rear of room and an additional sheer behind the slider for some ambient light control when we have visitors, but don't want to entertain in a pit! Lol Decisions decisions
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