Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 3700 Old 02-10-2008, 05:45 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
BTW, if you have questions you'd like answered I can relay them to the owner of SI to get answered. He's a very grounded guy and just as enthusiastic as any of the home theatre guys around. I'm sure he'd be very open to the questions.
h00kemh0rns is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 3700 Old 02-10-2008, 07:24 PM
Member
 
ngarn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zionsville, IN
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

BTW, if you have questions you'd like answered I can relay them to the owner of SI to get answered. He's a very grounded guy and just as enthusiastic as any of the home theatre guys around. I'm sure he'd be very open to the questions.

See if you can get any idea about price. It looks great from the video and photos but how it looks in real life is the important part.

I'm guessing the biggest competition in the market for them is going to be Stewart's Firehawk G3... Are they going to be willing to compete on price with Stewart? Are we talking about a fixed screen at 100+" for under $2500.

I don't think you can sell too many of them at prices much higher than that unless you can show a massive performance difference. (Stewart is still the industry standard.)

Thanks for the efforts!
ngarn is offline  
post #33 of 3700 Old 02-10-2008, 08:17 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarn View Post

See if you can get any idea about price. It looks great from the video and photos but how it looks in real life is the important part.

I'm guessing the biggest competition in the market for them is going to be Stewart's Firehawk G3... Are they going to be willing to compete on price with Stewart? Are we talking about a fixed screen at 100+" for under $2500.

I don't think you can sell too many of them at prices much higher than that unless you can show a massive performance difference. (Stewart is still the industry standard.)

Thanks for the efforts!

I was talking with the owner about a 110" and the tentative pricing was definitely under 2500. Also, the end of March is still firm for release date to the public. Regardless, will try to get some firm pricing the next time I go to SI.

I have a dedicated theatre room and was never contemplating the BD...figuring it was overkill. But, after listening to what the BD is capable of, and seeing it in the video, in a blackened room it sold me.

Watch the video again, there is an opening scene where it's in a completely blacked out room. If you watch the ceiling you'll notice the light 'scatter effect' of a typical screen. As the scene rolls on you see the screen roll up to reveal the BD...as it does the light scatter completely disapates from the ceiling. What does this mean? Supposedly higher contrast, deeper colors, and less 'washout.' So, even if you have a blacked out room you will benefit greatly from this type of screen.

This all remains to be seen in person but again if the video is remotely close...I'm sold. Honestly can't wait to see it live and in person. I'm going to be very hard on it to see if it's worth the difference in price. We'll see...
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #34 of 3700 Old 02-11-2008, 06:20 AM
Member
 
BillY2KFRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beacon Falls, CT
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
This is looking very promising. Do you happen to know the gain? Will this be something that could be used with a short throw (11ft to a 92-100" screen) and a projector that isn't dead center on the screen? thanks.
BillY2KFRC is offline  
post #35 of 3700 Old 02-11-2008, 07:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

BTW, if you have questions you'd like answered...

Basic question: if this is a fabric material will it be made available as such, or will they only offer complete systems w/frame etc.?
Laserfan is offline  
post #36 of 3700 Old 02-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillY2KFRC View Post

This is looking very promising. Do you happen to know the gain? Will this be something that could be used with a short throw (11ft to a 92-100" screen) and a projector that isn't dead center on the screen? thanks.


Gain is .85 or 1.4
Screen size is dependent on format you choose. Right now 16:9 will get you up to 110" whereas 2:35 can get you 133". I'm betting this will change as demand increases. The really cool thing with this screen is how black the screen is along with the attributes of light scatter/ambient lighting. The blackness eliminates the necessity for masking when going from 4:3, 16:9 to 2:35 and want to see if it's as good as I expect when switching formats.

I don't see why your conditions would hinder the screen operation/specs. Could you be more specific on how off center your projector will be, what projector you're using?
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #37 of 3700 Old 02-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Basic question: if this is a fabric material will it be made available as such, or will they only offer complete systems w/frame etc.?

Ryan stated to me that the Tsystem mount is made for switching out the screen material allowing for easy upgrades (like what I'll be doing initially.) I'll confirm that the screen material would be made to order without ordering the complete system.
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #38 of 3700 Old 02-11-2008, 07:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

I'll confirm that the screen material would be made to order without ordering the complete system.

Muchas gracias!

Look forward to your eyewitness report!
Laserfan is offline  
post #39 of 3700 Old 02-11-2008, 11:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Will they have electric versions? If so, could you ask the price on a 1.4 gain 133" 2.35:1?

I presume it's angular reflective as opposed to retroreflective, which means hotspotting can be an issue.

Please view w/that in mind, especially the 1.4 gain.

Thanks

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #40 of 3700 Old 02-12-2008, 07:41 AM
Member
 
BillY2KFRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beacon Falls, CT
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Gain is .85 or 1.4
Screen size is dependent on format you choose. Right now 16:9 will get you up to 110" whereas 2:35 can get you 133". I'm betting this will change as demand increases. The really cool thing with this screen is how black the screen is along with the attributes of light scatter/ambient lighting. The blackness eliminates the necessity for masking when going from 4:3, 16:9 to 2:35 and want to see if it's as good as I expect when switching formats.

I don't see why your conditions would hinder the screen operation/specs. Could you be more specific on how off center your projector will be, what projector you're using?

The .85 might be perect for my application. My projector is lined up vertically with the top of the screen, however it is approx. 30-40% off horiz. center. I have a door unfortunately placed dead-center at the rear of my theater, so it needs to be off center. I am using an RS1, and currently project on an Elite 92" High Contrast Gray 1.0 screen.
BillY2KFRC is offline  
post #41 of 3700 Old 02-13-2008, 07:49 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Muchas gracias!

Look forward to your eyewitness report!

Screen material will be available by itself. You won't need to purchase the whole system if you're looking to use within an existing frame.
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #42 of 3700 Old 02-13-2008, 08:02 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarn View Post

I'm guessing the biggest competition in the market for them is going to be Stewart's Firehawk G3...

They've already demo'd the BD against Stewarts entire line with some other customers. There was no competition between BD and Stewarts per customer reactions.

Obviously this is all third hand info and I'm asking if he can set up something similar for my visit. When I was there last they only had a couple pieces of the BD material. Not enough really suitable for a good showing. The actual screens were going to some large events (forget the names off hand) one being in Canada the other in Cali/west coast area. Anyways, when they get back in I'm hoping to see these perform against the perverbial 500 lb gorilla screens.

Some more tidbits of info on these screens per Ryan:
BD is completely different than any other coated or pvc material because of the optics. The optics create around a 3x improvement in contrast. Also, unlike traditional screens BD does not have the issues with color accuracy when used in a theater with painted walls. For instance if you have a burgundy room you will see a red push. BD controls the porjectors light, therefore not allowing the light to reflect all over the room (light scatter.)
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #43 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 09:57 AM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Will they have electric versions? If so, could you ask the price on a 1.4 gain 133" 2.35:1?

Yes, they will be available in Q2. No idea on pricing yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I presume it's angular reflective as opposed to retroreflective, which means hotspotting can be an issue.

It is angular reflective. Hotspotting supposedly has been eliminated due to optics used. I'll be able to better determine if this is true after the demo.
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #44 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 09:59 AM
Member
 
AaronS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Blue Ridge, Texas
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So does anyone know if it is a retroreflective screen? The characteristics would suggest it is, but that is never stated.

AaronS
AaronS is offline  
post #45 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 11:53 AM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronS View Post

So does anyone know if it is a retroreflective screen? The characteristics would suggest it is, but that is never stated.

AaronS

Angular, with a 44% viewing angle. I got this info from Screen Innovations on Tuesday.
hrd is offline  
post #46 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 01:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 166
"Angular, with a 44% viewing angle."

That must be for the low gain screen.

We'll just have to wait and see on the high gain.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #47 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 01:31 PM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Angular, with a 44% viewing angle."

That must be for the low gain screen.

We'll just have to wait and see on the high gain.

It's on the "high" gain screen. I asked about the screen gains and was told 1.3, and it seemed that was the only one coming out. I think I asked for confirmation there would be just the one, but not 100% sure if I did.

If you call, they will take your contact info and put you on a list to get a screen sample, which they hope to send out in March.
hrd is offline  
post #48 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 02:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Talontsi96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone have an idea of what the pricing on this screen material will be?
Talontsi96 is offline  
post #49 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 05:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

...Some more tidbits of info on these screens per Ryan: BD is completely different than any other coated or pvc material because of the optics. The optics create around a 3x improvement in contrast. Also, unlike traditional screens BD does not have the issues with color accuracy when used in a theater with painted walls. For instance if you have a burgundy room you will see a red push. BD controls the porjectors light, therefore not allowing the light to reflect all over the room (light scatter.)

This makes great sense and is very encouraging, even to those of us with "bat caves" i.e. I can see the reflected light everywhere in the room, and like the idea that BD might minimize it. You're really on the hook now Mr. Horns--looking forward to your viewing & report!
Laserfan is offline  
post #50 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 06:43 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

This makes great sense and is very encouraging, even to those of us with "bat caves" i.e. I can see the reflected light everywhere in the room, and like the idea that BD might minimize it. You're really on the hook now Mr. Horns--looking forward to your viewing & report!


Haha! Keep me on the hook....I think Ryan is going to demo this for me just to have me stop pestering him Two weeks I should get my first demo with another to follow about 2-4 wks later.

I'll probably have firm pricing in two weeks as well. Ryan's goal is to get this bleeding edge technology out there while cutting into the price point set by the 900 lb gorillas in the industry. I fully expect these to undercut the most expensive offered, by say the Stewarts, by a good 20-30%.

Again, that's my gut feel...nothing firm yet...so don't hold me to it YET.
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #51 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 06:44 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

Anyone have an idea of what the pricing on this screen material will be?


Nothing firm yet but it's been eluded that 110" 16:9 would be in the ball park of ~2300
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #52 of 3700 Old 02-14-2008, 09:07 PM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Nothing firm yet but it's been eluded that 110" 16:9 would be in the ball park of ~2300

Not bad, and if dealers get a very favorable cost on these, street price could be under $1500 for that one.
hrd is offline  
post #53 of 3700 Old 02-15-2008, 07:59 AM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Haha! Keep me on the hook....I think Ryan is going to demo this for me just to have me stop pestering him Two weeks I should get my first demo with another to follow about 2-4 wks later.

Any chance SI would let you take some pics?
hrd is offline  
post #54 of 3700 Old 02-19-2008, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mikenificent1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Most importantly, besides price (for a 92"

Can you confirm if it hot spots at short throw (1.4), and if there is any sheen or sparklies with the material. I asked a rep, he asked me my setup, and then never responded afterwards which looks like a bad sign.
Mikenificent1 is offline  
post #55 of 3700 Old 02-19-2008, 12:58 PM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

Most importantly, besides price (for a 92"

Can you confirm if it hot spots at short throw (1.4), and if there is any sheen or sparklies with the material. I asked a rep, he asked me my setup, and then responded afterwards which looked likle a bad sign.

I asked Ryan at SI if the screen surface would show and his answer was no.
hrd is offline  
post #56 of 3700 Old 02-19-2008, 08:28 PM
Member
 
h00kemh0rns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

Any chance SI would let you take some pics?

I don't see why not but obviously I can't commit without Ryan's nod.

Man, it's getting close to when I'll be heading over...can you hear my anticipation?
h00kemh0rns is offline  
post #57 of 3700 Old 02-25-2008, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Xyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York, New York (say it twice, we're kinda slow)
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I heard from SI that the release will be in April and that they may sell direct to people that do not have a dealer close to them.

Xbox Live: SubPrime Debt

Xyst is offline  
post #58 of 3700 Old 02-26-2008, 07:13 AM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

I heard from SI that the release will be in April and that they may sell direct to people that do not have a dealer close to them.

AV Science is planning to be a dealer for SI, which means these screens should be available through mail order and for less than the MSRP price the manufacturer will want for a direct order.
hrd is offline  
post #59 of 3700 Old 02-26-2008, 08:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mikenificent1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

I asked Ryan at SI if the screen surface would show and his answer was no.

It can still hot spot though. Screens like the DNP Supernova and the standard Firehawk need a long throw setup to minimize hot spotting, I wonder if the BD is any different. SI hasn't responded to my emails, and I'm a potential buyer, imagine if you have questions after the sale!! I guess I'll have to look else where.
Mikenificent1 is offline  
post #60 of 3700 Old 02-26-2008, 09:11 AM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

It can still hot spot though. Screens like the DNP Supernova and the standard Firehawk need a long throw setup to minimize hot spotting, I wonder if the BD is any different. SI hasn't responded to my emails, and I'm a potential buyer, imagine if you have questions after the sale!! I guess I'll have to look else where.

You have to expect the FH to show screen surface, since it is a grey screen. I think the Supernova may be grey as well.

When I called and asked questions on the phone two weeks ago, the people at SI were very helpful. Both Shannon and Ryan spent plenty of time patiently answering all of my questions. Plus, if you bought a Black Diamond from AV Science, you could certainly count on excellent follow-up service from your dealer.
hrd is offline  
Reply Screens

Tags
Projection Screens , Pure Acoustics Supernova C 250 Watt Center Speaker , Speaker Systems , Screen Innovations

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off