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funk74's Avatar funk74
06:50 PM Liked: 10
post #631 of 3727
05-23-2008 | Posts: 53
Joined: Aug 2001
mcleo,

where did you end up ordering the screen from? did you get it direct from SI or another distributor?
hrd's Avatar hrd
07:25 PM Liked: 15
post #632 of 3727
05-23-2008 | Posts: 1,129
Joined: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post

Image & Sound FX in Old Bridge, NJ (732-607-1064 / digitalnexus@optonline.net) just had his 80" Black Diamond demo screen ship yesterday. His goal is to have it up for an event he is participating in on June 8. Although Phil has two dedicated theaters, the BD setup will be in his showroom, and will have to overcome the opposing all-glass exterior wall.

glennQ

Is 80" the diagonal size?
mcleo19's Avatar mcleo19
12:13 PM Liked: 10
post #633 of 3727
05-24-2008 | Posts: 26
Joined: Feb 2008
I ordered from projectorzone.com. SI doesnt allow them to advertise the prices anymore on their website, so you will need to call to get it ordered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by funk74 View Post

mcleo,

where did you end up ordering the screen from? did you get it direct from SI or another distributor?


sauroneru's Avatar sauroneru
01:11 PM Liked: 10
post #634 of 3727
05-27-2008 | Posts: 86
Joined: Jul 2004
Audio Concepts in Houston has a 2.35:1 BD on display with an Epson Pro Cinema 810 720p projector. I don't know much about front projection, but it looked very good. It was in a batcave, but had 75W halogen track lights. The BD handled the bulbs 4 feet away fantastically - you had to shine them directly on the screen to wash out the image at all. The screen did wash out much easier when a bulb next to the projector at the back of the room was pointed at the screen. Their screen was supposed to be a 1.4 gain, but again white paper showed a much brighter image. However, I didn't have someone else hold it while I stepped back a few feet and made sure I was looking at the screen from a 0° angle. I called SI and they said they'd look into it, since their 1.4 screens are definitely brighter than paper. I saw no hotspotting or sparklies, but I'm also not extremely picky about the picture, I just don't want any significant artifacts. I would say it looks very similar to a direct-view LCD screen as far as its ambient light rejection and off-angle viewing. Way better than a rear projection set.

Note about Audio Concepts: I hate them. They were ignorant and rude. I had to convince them that there were 2 gains of BD, then they had to look at the receipt to find out for sure they had the 1.4. They had no idea how many lumens the projector put out, what mode it was running in, and acted like those were the dumbest questions they've ever been asked. They didn't know how big the screen was (maybe 7' wide was their estimate), and gave me a lecture about how diagonal sizes don't mean anything since we're not using 4:3 screens anymore (I just wanted to get an estimate of the 16:9 image they were projecting on their 2.35:1 screen). When I held up a piece of copy paper and saw it was quite a bit brighter than the screen, another salesman came by and told me that of course it looks brighter since it's a different material and "people with training" at the factory measured the screen and they know what they're doing. Sadly, I'll probably go back with my wife once more since they're the only place in town with one, but I obviously will not contribute any money to their hatred of clean-cut 30 year olds in scrubs (I guess my demographic is ruining the world or something).
tommy def's Avatar tommy def
08:51 PM Liked: 12
post #635 of 3727
05-27-2008 | Posts: 120
Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

Hi Tommy,

Any chance you can put a pic or two with some ambient light in the room?

Thanks again, and I have to agree...that is a slick little set-up with the alcove.

Andrew

This is with full lights on.
LL
LL
do not freeze's Avatar do not freeze
08:56 PM Liked: 10
post #636 of 3727
05-27-2008 | Posts: 140
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy def View Post

This is with full lights on.

impressive
haarec's Avatar haarec
03:33 AM Liked: 10
post #637 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 15
Joined: Apr 2008
This blue tint of what seems to be originaly white on the image - is it a matter of the screen? Could you place a white paper on a corner and take a picture then?
batborsen's Avatar batborsen
07:49 AM Liked: 11
post #638 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 166
Joined: Jan 2007
And perhaps some pics in a comletely dark enviroment?!
do not freeze's Avatar do not freeze
11:39 AM Liked: 10
post #639 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 140
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by haarec View Post

This blue tint of what seems to be originaly white on the image - is it a matter of the screen? Could you place a white paper on a corner and take a picture then?

I saw a blue push too. But there's so many variables, like the projector's calibration, what the original feed looks like and the digital camera. We can't really tell from these pictures, we'll have to ask the owners of the BD.
send's Avatar send
11:53 AM Liked: 10
post #640 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 42
Joined: Jan 2008
Several people have been asking about Black Diamond screen reviews.

FYI .: There are two Black Diamond screen reviews coming out this month in Sound & Vision and Playback Magazines.

More to come including an AVS review shortly

We appreciate all the support and excitement!

Ryan Gustafson
.: SI Screens :.
hrd's Avatar hrd
01:05 PM Liked: 15
post #641 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 1,129
Joined: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by send View Post

Several people have been asking about Black Diamond screen reviews.

FYI .: There are two Black Diamond screen reviews coming out this month in Sound & Vision and Playback Magazines.

More to come including an AVS review shortly

We appreciate all the support and excitement!

Ryan Gustafson
.: SI Screens :.

Hi Ryan, can you tell us if AV Science will be a dealer for your screens soon?
haarec's Avatar haarec
01:07 PM Liked: 10
post #642 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 15
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by do not freeze View Post

I saw a blue push too. But there's so many variables, like the projector's calibration, what the original feed looks like and the digital camera. We can't really tell from these pictures, we'll have to ask the owners of the BD.

Yes, of course. This surely is a projector calibration matter. Having normal (400 lumes for D65) projector, we need (or even have to) use dynamic mode with obvious blue push because of amount of light we absolutely have to have for this screen, didn´t pay attention for a color balans.

My point is to get know how much light we need for a bright calibrated image. Black level is of course important but how about a white level.
mcleo19's Avatar mcleo19
02:55 PM Liked: 10
post #643 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 26
Joined: Feb 2008
Very nice...I am starting to feel much better about my purchase already! Can't wait for it to arrive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy def View Post

This is with full lights on.


Xyst's Avatar Xyst
07:31 PM Liked: 10
post #644 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauroneru View Post

Note about Audio Concepts: I hate them.

This may be the single greatest post I've seen online. Sauroneru, good luck hunting the screen man. Your ordeals with your dealer remind me of every AV store in Manhattan.
Xyst's Avatar Xyst
07:33 PM Liked: 10
post #645 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy def View Post

This is with full lights on.

Tommy, you're awesome man! Thanks so much for the pics, the screen looks great. I can hardly wait until august when the release the retractable model...that's when I'm pulling the trigger.
Xyst's Avatar Xyst
07:35 PM Liked: 10
post #646 of 3727
05-28-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by send View Post

Several people have been asking about Black Diamond screen reviews.

FYI .: There are two Black Diamond screen reviews coming out this month in Sound & Vision and Playback Magazines.

More to come including an AVS review shortly

We appreciate all the support and excitement!

Ryan Gustafson
.: SI Screens :.

Hi Ryan,

Thanks for the heads up about the screen reviews! I'll be searching out copies of those mags to get a glimpse of what they have to say. Glad to stopped by and hopefully we'll see you around more.

Thanks again,
Andrew
pottscb's Avatar pottscb
09:09 AM Liked: 42
post #647 of 3727
05-29-2008 | Posts: 1,316
Joined: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauroneru View Post

Audio Concepts in Houston has a 2.35:1 BD on display with an Epson Pro Cinema 810 720p projector. I don't know much about front projection, but it looked very good. It was in a batcave, but had 75W halogen track lights. The BD handled the bulbs 4 feet away fantastically - you had to shine them directly on the screen to wash out the image at all. The screen did wash out much easier when a bulb next to the projector at the back of the room was pointed at the screen. Their screen was supposed to be a 1.4 gain, but again white paper showed a much brighter image. However, I didn't have someone else hold it while I stepped back a few feet and made sure I was looking at the screen from a 0° angle. I called SI and they said they'd look into it, since their 1.4 screens are definitely brighter than paper. I saw no hotspotting or sparklies, but I'm also not extremely picky about the picture, I just don't want any significant artifacts. I would say it looks very similar to a direct-view LCD screen as far as its ambient light rejection and off-angle viewing. Way better than a rear projection set.

Note about Audio Concepts: I hate them. They were ignorant and rude. I had to convince them that there were 2 gains of BD, then they had to look at the receipt to find out for sure they had the 1.4. They had no idea how many lumens the projector put out, what mode it was running in, and acted like those were the dumbest questions they've ever been asked. They didn't know how big the screen was (maybe 7' wide was their estimate), and gave me a lecture about how diagonal sizes don't mean anything since we're not using 4:3 screens anymore (I just wanted to get an estimate of the 16:9 image they were projecting on their 2.35:1 screen). When I held up a piece of copy paper and saw it was quite a bit brighter than the screen, another salesman came by and told me that of course it looks brighter since it's a different material and "people with training" at the factory measured the screen and they know what they're doing. Sadly, I'll probably go back with my wife once more since they're the only place in town with one, but I obviously will not contribute any money to their hatred of clean-cut 30 year olds in scrubs (I guess my demographic is ruining the world or something).

Drive on up to Austin and view it at the SI plant with an RS1...we'll leave the light on for ya!
Xyst's Avatar Xyst
04:15 PM Liked: 10
post #648 of 3727
05-31-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
I picked up the Sound & Vision at the book store today and flipped through to the "Review" of the Black Diamond. Don't waist your time. It's a 25 word blip under the new products section written by a moron. I guess will have to wait for AVS' words of wisdom.
Laserfan
07:14 AM Liked: 18
post #649 of 3727
06-01-2008 | Posts: 3,772
Joined: Apr 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

It's a 25 word blip under the new products section written by a moron.

And you're one of those "charming New Yorkers" we keep hearing about!

You DO realize these "new products" blurbs are usually written by Marketing Communications reps in the products' firms, yes? Oh well, not to worry, Texans have thick skins!
Xyst's Avatar Xyst
09:40 AM Liked: 10
post #650 of 3727
06-01-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

And you're one of those "charming New Yorkers" we keep hearing about!

You DO realize these "new products" blurbs are usually written by Marketing Communications reps in the products' firms, yes? Oh well, not to worry, Texans have thick skins!

Lol, what can I say? 4 years of living here has made me a little bitter! No I didn't realize that, but I was disappointed. When I hear the term "review" I tend to think of something other than a blurb, so I has hoping for more. If you have a chance to glance at it next time at you're book store, you might agree though...
Nedtsc's Avatar Nedtsc
12:37 PM Liked: 10
post #651 of 3727
06-01-2008 | Posts: 830
Joined: Jul 2004
I viewed the sample as compared to HP and sony's chroma vue. It's certainly brighter than sony's but quite similar in PQ.
Laserfan
06:35 AM Liked: 18
post #652 of 3727
06-02-2008 | Posts: 3,772
Joined: Apr 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

If you have a chance to glance at it next time at you're book store, you might agree though...

I had/have the mag right here and looked it-up when I saw your post--didn't see the word "review" used anywhere. Having subscribed to first Stereo Review (1960s?) then Video now S&V clearly these New Products announcements are just that--mfrs submit info/pics to the mag and hope they get published. I dunno how S&V filters these every month; I'll bet they get dozens if not hundreds of submittals to sift thru and choose among.

Sure, then they "punch them up" to make 'em fit the theme-of-the-month or whatever. I'd assume the cutesy "I'm getting excited..." was NOT in SI's original submission...!
pottscb's Avatar pottscb
06:47 AM Liked: 42
post #653 of 3727
06-02-2008 | Posts: 1,316
Joined: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy def View Post

This is with full lights on.

In one of the pictures you can see the camera's flash reflecting in a picutre frame below the screen, this no doubt hammered the contrast and what you were seeing was, no doubt, much better than the picture tells. Maybe you could take one with no flash or well to the side?
darinp2's Avatar darinp2
01:15 PM Liked: 85
post #654 of 3727
06-02-2008 | Posts: 21,236
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

I had/have the mag right here and looked it-up when I saw your post--didn't see the word "review" used anywhere.

I'm guessing that Xyst was referring to this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by send View Post

Several people have been asking about Black Diamond screen reviews.

FYI .: There are two Black Diamond screen reviews coming out this month in Sound & Vision and Playback Magazines.

More to come including an AVS review shortly

We appreciate all the support and excitement!

Ryan Gustafson
.: SI Screens :.

and then getting the S&V magazine. Not sure if that was supposed to be the review or if there is still a review coming (like in the next month's issue).

--Darin
Laserfan
01:46 PM Liked: 18
post #655 of 3727
06-02-2008 | Posts: 3,772
Joined: Apr 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I'm guessing that Xyst was referring to this post...and then getting the S&V magazine.

Ah, I didn't make that connection. If true, I'm sorry Xyst for getting on your case! As a "review" that certainly did suck!
tommy def's Avatar tommy def
06:38 PM Liked: 12
post #656 of 3727
06-02-2008 | Posts: 120
Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

In one of the pictures you can see the camera's flash reflecting in a picture frame below the screen, this no doubt hammered the contrast and what you were seeing was, no doubt, much better than the picture tells. Maybe you could take one with no flash or well to the side?

the pictures were taken with no flash. the reflection could only be the projector or high hats, those are the only two light sources in the room.
Xyst's Avatar Xyst
04:45 PM Liked: 10
post #657 of 3727
06-03-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Ah, I didn't make that connection. If true, I'm sorry Xyst for getting on your case! As a "review" that certainly did suck!

Yeah, that's what I was referring to with "Review". And no worries, I at least learned something new out of the heckling...I had no idea the product write ups were done by the manufacturers.
BigDallas's Avatar BigDallas
04:17 PM Liked: 10
post #658 of 3727
06-04-2008 | Posts: 13
Joined: Apr 2008
I just installed my 1.4 gain BD yesterday. I didn't take any pictures because the frame was too small and had a few ripples near the bottom of the screen. Si's fault on my custom size order, but they fixed it in one day. I should have some night & daytime pictures Friday after the new frame is installed.

Initial impressions:
- My wife was very skeptical but really likes the daytime picture, professional quality, and thinks it was worth the mega bucks we spent. What a relief.
- Daytime view, blinds open looks pretty good with 2000 lumen's @ 110" 16:9. I am happy with the improvement over normal white screen I had. I never tried a gray one. Maybe I should paint a cardboard paper gray and try.
- Screen is not a miracle. It can handle significant amounts of light, but not my 40' x 6' wall of windows (80% blocking solar screens) with blinds open. With white walls, light reflections are giving off disperse light. SI suggests the BD handles point light sources better. Still want a 5000+ lumen's for image to pop off the screen.
- If I close my fairly translucent blinds, the daytime picture looks great.
- Screen appears black (nice). Doesn't look like 1.4 gain. Looks like 1/2 to 1/3 that.
- Image looks like same brightness day or night. I didn't have to adjust projector. Strange because white screen was way too bright at night (my pupils were open).
- Contrast definitely better at night.
- SI says the screen is angular reflective. Kind of like a mirror only with some dispersion for acceptable viewing angle. That would explain the metal backing. They suggest projector ceiling mount to screen and bounce light and same angle to your eye level. My projector is ~16ft back. I raised projector height to get closer to their' ideal, but it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe I will play with a lower screen height, but I like the image 6 to 11' high.
Xyst's Avatar Xyst
05:09 PM Liked: 10
post #659 of 3727
06-04-2008 | Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDallas View Post

I just installed my 1.4 gain BD yesterday. I didn't take any pictures because the frame was too small and had a few ripples near the bottom of the screen. Si's fault on my custom size order, but they fixed it in one day. I should have some night & daytime pictures Friday after the new frame is installed.

Initial impressions:
- My wife was very skeptical but really likes the daytime picture, professional quality, and thinks it was worth the mega bucks we spent. What a relief.
- Daytime view, blinds open looks pretty good with 2000 lumen's @ 110" 16:9. I am happy with the improvement over normal white screen I had. I never tried a gray one. Maybe I should paint a cardboard paper gray and try.
- Screen is not a miracle. It can handle significant amounts of light, but not my 40' x 6' wall of windows (80% blocking solar screens) with blinds open. With white walls, light reflections are giving off disperse light. SI suggests the BD handles point light sources better. Still want a 5000+ lumen's for image to pop off the screen.
- If I close my fairly translucent blinds, the daytime picture looks great.
- Screen appears black (nice). Doesn't look like 1.4 gain. Looks like 1/2 to 1/3 that.
- Image looks like same brightness day or night. I didn't have to adjust projector. Strange because white screen was way too bright at night (my pupils were open).
- Contrast definitely better at night.
- SI says the screen is angular reflective. Kind of like a mirror only with some dispersion for acceptable viewing angle. That would explain the metal backing. They suggest projector ceiling mount to screen and bounce light and same angle to your eye level. My projector is ~16ft back. I raised projector height to get closer to their' ideal, but it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe I will play with a lower screen height, but I like the image 6 to 11' high.

BigDallas,

Great write up! Thanks for the feedback and I can't wait to see the pictures. Would you mind taking one or two of your room to show your set-up /lighting conditions? It would be good to see what you're working with. I'd say there are a lot of jealous people here... And yet you still got the WAF approval? Now that says something about the screen right there!!

I'm glad to hear that SI was able to correct your screen so fast. It sounds like they have a very good level of service. Thanks again,

Andrew
Spindizzy's Avatar Spindizzy
09:41 AM Liked: 10
post #660 of 3727
06-05-2008 | Posts: 133
Joined: Feb 2005
Any comments how the BD rates against a Stewart Firehawk? Both have around the same gain and are supposed to fight ambient light quite well.
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