Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 3693 Old 02-26-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

It can still hot spot though. Screens like the DNP Supernova and the standard Firehawk need a long throw setup to minimize hot spotting, I wonder if the BD is any different. SI hasn't responded to my emails, and I'm a potential buyer, imagine if you have questions after the sale!! I guess I'll have to look else where.

Black Diamond is new technology not prone to hot spotting as in the past per Ryan. Next week should be my demo and I'll try to take pics and give you an honest critique.

As far as being unresponsive, you seem to be in the minority since everyone that's attempted to contact them (email or phone) have had no probs. Give them a call they'll be able to assist right away. Great people to talk with.
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post #62 of 3693 Old 02-26-2008, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

I heard from SI that the release will be in April and that they may sell direct to people that do not have a dealer close to them.


Dell will be selling them online as well.
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post #63 of 3693 Old 02-26-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Black Diamond is new technology not prone to hot spotting as in the past per Ryan. Next week should be my demo and I'll try to take pics and give you an honest critique.

As far as being unresponsive, you seem to be in the minority since everyone that's attempted to contact them (email or phone) have had no probs. Give them a call they'll be able to assist right away. Great people to talk with.

I learned yesterday when I called too late in the day to reach Shannon and Ryan that the two of them were going to be away from the office Tuesday and Wednesday. Got me thinking maybe they went somewhere to demo the Black Diamond.
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post #64 of 3693 Old 02-26-2008, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Black Diamond is new technology not prone to hot spotting as in the past per Ryan. Next week should be my demo and I'll try to take pics and give you an honest critique.

If all they say is true, then it is the screen I've been waiting forever for! I can't wait to see it for myself.

When you see it make note of which gain screen you are looking at, the size of the screen, and how far the lens is from the screen. When the room is dark, move your head side to side to see if there is a hot spot (portion of the screen is brighter than the rest and the brioght spot moves when your head moves), also during bright parts of the screen, especially white, take notice if there are any sparklies, sheen, or if whites look crushed. Thanks.
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post #65 of 3693 Old 02-27-2008, 11:48 AM
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Does anybody know if AVS is getting a review sample?

Thanks
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post #66 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 06:57 AM
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For those in the SF Bay Area, Magnolia Hi-Fi across the street from the Valley Fair Mall has the Black Diamond screen, they have a JVS RS-1 displaying on it.

I am in the process of building a HT and have been having fits trying to figure out which screen to get. The BD looked pretty impressive, the guy at the store turned up all the lights in the room and the picture still looked good.
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post #67 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 07:07 AM
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Due to the multipurpose nature of the room I am building I need to go with an electrical. So, for being future-proof I will likely get a 2.35:1 screen and work out some masking system for 16:9.

On the SI Black Diamond they are coming out with an electrical call the "Reference" model. In the photos they provide the screen looks like a non-tensioned screen, i.e. none of the curves of a tensioning system. But, the website states:

'"Super Flat" Rigid horizontal screen tensioning system'

Does anybody have any idea how they are doing the tensioning?
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post #68 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

they have a JVS RS-1 displaying on it.

The BD looked pretty impressive, the guy at the store turned up all the lights in the room and the picture still looked good.

That's all you can say about it??? You're killing me, that's the projector I have too (RS1), but live in NYC lol Did you notice if it hotspot with the lights out, or there was any sheen on the screen?? When you say Magnolia Hi Fi, is that the same as Magnolia in Best Buy? If so maybe they'll have it around here soon too. Did they say how much it cost for the fixed screen?
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post #69 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

That's all you can say about it??? You're killing me, that's the projector I have too (RS1), but live in NYC lol Did you notice if it hotspot with the lights out, or there was any sheen on the screen?? When you say Magnolia Hi Fi, is that the same as Magnolia in Best Buy? If so maybe they'll have it around here soon too. Did they say how much it cost for the fixed screen?

Well... as a newbie to HT I don't really feel qualified to give much more than I did. I wasn't looking for hotspots or anything else, just took a quick look. The thing is, when I went there, I had never heard of a Black Diamond screen, now that I have read up here I know what to look for next time I go.

Yes, it is the same Magnolia as the Best Buy chain, but this Magnolia is a separate store so it is larger than most in-store Magnolias.

Hopefully some of the more experienced guys here in the SF Bay Area can go over there and give us their impression of the screen. I will go back there over the next day or two and take a closer look as well.
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post #70 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

That's all you can say about it??? You're killing me, that's the projector I have too (RS1), but live in NYC lol Did you notice if it hotspot with the lights out, or there was any sheen on the screen?? When you say Magnolia Hi Fi, is that the same as Magnolia in Best Buy? If so maybe they'll have it around here soon too. Did they say how much it cost for the fixed screen?

As far as price goes, the sales guy said the fixed screen they had was around $3k - $4k, but that was off the top of his head. I asked him to get me a quote on an electrical screen with Black Diamond. He called SI while I waited and since this is a new product coming out nobody had concrete info over at SI on price. The President of the company was on a flight somewhere but was going to call him back with some sort of pricing. I am still waiting for an answer.
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post #71 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

Well... as a newbie to HT I don't really feel qualified to give much more than I did. .

The great news is that you confirmed that it is the screen is out already. Thanks.
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post #72 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

As far as price goes, the sales guy said the fixed screen they had was around $3k - $4k, but that was off the top of his head..

$3-$4K?? Holy... That's a LOT more than what some people were saying around here!! Hopefully the top of his head was wrong lol.
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post #73 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 09:19 AM
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Mike,

Where is Valley Fair mall?

"Super Flat" Rigid horizontal screen tensioning system"

Perhaps they embed horizontal metal rods in the screen material.

Noah
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post #74 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

For those in the SF Bay Area, Magnolia Hi-Fi across the street from the Valley Fair Mall has the Black Diamond screen, they have a JVS RS-1 displaying on it.

I am in the process of building a HT and have been having fits trying to figure out which screen to get. The BD looked pretty impressive, the guy at the store turned up all the lights in the room and the picture still looked good.

I just called SI and asked about this. The two individuals who know the most about the products are still away on business, but the person I did speak with, although not as up on the latest info, was doubtful it was a Black Diamond. It's not supposed to be out until April.
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post #75 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hrd View Post

I just called SI and asked about this. The two individuals who know the most about the products are still away on business, but the person I did speak with, although not as up on the latest info, was doubtful it was a Black Diamond. It's not supposed to be out until April.

Judging by the cost he was given plus this info, it was probably an older Visage then
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post #76 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

Judging by the cost he was given plus this info, it was probably an older Visage then

I went back to the shop and it is, in fact, the Visage. Yesterday one guy told me it was the Black Diamond, which is the first I had ever heard of it. Today, one of the guys there more in the know said it was the Visage. The $3k - $4k makes more sense then.

They did confirm that the main guys are out at a trade show, I am waiting on pricing for the electric Black Diamond. Pretty sure I will go with the 133" 2.35:1 for my setup, this assuming the price isn't prohibitive.
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post #77 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 01:11 PM
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For those asking about hot spotting.... Here is a picture I took of the Visage with a blue screen from the RS1:

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post #78 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

I went back to the shop and it is, in fact, the Visage. Yesterday one guy told me it was the Black Diamond, which is the first I had ever heard of it. Today, one of the guys there more in the know said it was the Visage. The $3k - $4k makes more sense then.

They did confirm that the main guys are out at a trade show, I am waiting on pricing for the electric Black Diamond. Pretty sure I will go with the 133" 2.35:1 for my setup, this assuming the price isn't prohibitive.

Sounds like MSRP for the fixed frame screen could be in the mid-2000s. I don't know what the discounted price would be, but considering High Powers and Silverstars seem to approach half off, it's possible that could sell for under $1500.

Didn't know it was supposed to be available as an electric screen. You sure about that?
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post #79 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hrd View Post

Sounds like MSRP for the fixed frame screen could be in the mid-2000s. I don't know what the discounted price would be, but considering High Powers and Silverstars seem to approach half off, it's possible that could sell for under $1500.

Didn't know it was supposed to be available as an electric screen. You sure about that?

Yes, very sure, it is even listed on their website:

http://www.siscreens.com/motorized.html

"Coming Q1-2008

Elegant curved d ├ęcor case

Ultra Quiet Motor (The quietest in the industry) 43 dB from 3'

Screen Materials Silhouette & Lunar Gray, Black Diamond"
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post #80 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

Yes, very sure, it is even listed on their website:

http://www.siscreens.com/motorized.html

"Coming Q1-2008

Elegant curved d ├ęcor case

Ultra Quiet Motor (The quietest in the industry) 43 dB from 3'

Screen Materials Silhouette & Lunar Gray, Black Diamond"

Thanks for the link. I thought I had read everything about the Black Diamond on their website, but I had not seen that. Or maybe it's new.

Now they are talking in terms of "Maximum Seamless Size", which I'm positive was not on the website just a few days ago. Before, 110" 16X9 and 133" 2.35:1 were supposed to be the largest sizes available. I was leaning towards the 133", but that will do a 16X9 of only 106.5" diagonal, and it would be nice to be able to go larger. Depends on how much the seam shows, of course.
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post #81 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

For those asking about hot spotting.... Here is a picture I took of the Visage with a blue screen from the RS1:


thanks michael, that's exactly what I'm trying to AVOID. I had the OEM version of the Visage from DNP, the Supernova, and THAT drove me nuts! Hopefuly the BD does not do this.
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post #82 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 11:05 PM
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"thanks michael, that's exactly what I'm trying to AVOID."

Mike,

Did it look that way in person?

I remember a show where Jason Turk posted a bunch of screenshots that looked like hotspotting, but he said that it didn't look that way in person.

Noah
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post #83 of 3693 Old 02-28-2008, 11:09 PM
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Where did you see that?

All I saw under "Performance" (their quotes) Model was

"Screen Sizes - 16:9 - 80", 92", 100", 106", 110", 119", 133""

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post #84 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"thanks michael, that's exactly what I'm trying to AVOID."

Mike,

Did it look that way in person?

I remember a show where Jason Turk posted a bunch of screenshots that looked like hotspotting, but he said that it didn't look that way in person.

Noah,

Watching movies I didn't notice it at all. When the blue screen came on it was amazing how much of a hot spot was there. That is when I whipped out my camera to take the photo.
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post #85 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

Thanks for the link. I thought I had read everything about the Black Diamond on their website, but I had not seen that. Or maybe it's new.

Now they are talking in terms of "Maximum Seamless Size", which I'm positive was not on the website just a few days ago. Before, 110" 16X9 and 133" 2.35:1 were supposed to be the largest sizes available. I was leaning towards the 133", but that will do a 16X9 of only 106.5" diagonal, and it would be nice to be able to go larger. Depends on how much the seam shows, of course.

From what I gathered on a 2.35:1, 133" was the max seamless size. I would have preferred 137" so that I can get a 110" 16:9, but if 133" is the max then I can live with it........barely.
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post #86 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

From what I gathered on a 2.35:1, 133" was the max seamless size. I would have preferred 137" so that I can get a 110" 16:9, but if 133" is the max then I can live with it........barely.

Right, 133" is listed as the maximum seamless size. I had the same thoughts, that 54"X127" would be perfect because it would give a good-size scope image and also give a 110" 16X9. I don't like the idea of getting less than 110" if I go with the scope screen. I was thinking yesterday I've got to mention this to SI and recommend they go up to 54"X127". Vutec makes a Silverstar in that size, which is what I may get if the Black Diamond doesn't work out.
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post #87 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Where did you see that?

All I saw under "Performance" (their quotes) Model was

"Screen Sizes - 16:9 - 80", 92", 100", 106", 110", 119", 133""

Go to the home page and click on 'tech specs' and it takes you here:

http://siscreens.com/specs.html
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post #88 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

Go to the home page and click on 'tech specs' and it takes you here:

http://siscreens.com/specs.html

I'm glad to hear SI is using the embossing technique instead of glass beads for gain, or at least thats how it appears. So that should take care of any sheen. We'll see. Can't wait, April seems so damn far away lol.
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post #89 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"thanks michael, that's exactly what I'm trying to AVOID."

Mike,

Did it look that way in person?

I remember a show where Jason Turk posted a bunch of screenshots that looked like hotspotting, but he said that it didn't look that way in person.

For me, that's exactly how it looked on the DNP Supernova that I used to own.
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post #90 of 3693 Old 02-29-2008, 01:16 PM
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"Go to the home page and click on 'tech specs' and it takes you here:

http://siscreens.com/specs.html"

Darn, I was hoping for a 133" 16:9.

Thanks

Noah
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